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Bill Bruford vs. Alan White for YES

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Topic: Bill Bruford vs. Alan White for YES
Posted By: The Lost Chord
Subject: Bill Bruford vs. Alan White for YES
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:19

Who was better for YES as a band

 

I think bruford was



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"Only the sun knew why"



Replies:
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:26

This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.

It depends on what you mean, exactly.

  • Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
  • Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
  • Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
  • Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
  • Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then.

So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.



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"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: andYouandI45
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:27
i though it was a defeinate fact that Bruford was better, but White was a perfect replacement.


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:29

Like Peter Gabriel with Genesis, Bill's tenure with Yes was so many years ago, but it was within those short precious years that Bill made a name for himself, but yet he became a drumming god within King Crimson....

But yet I associate Yes more with Alan then I do Bill.....

 

Alan... Relayer was his shining moment as a drummer...

 

Charles



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G'day


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:31
Bruford.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Gianthogweed
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:33
Bruford's the better drummer, but I agree with Steve Howe in that the ABWHS lineup was too good.  Probably the most talented group of 5 rock musicians ever assembled.  But imagine the fights they had.  White stabilized the band.  I kind if wish they would do an album with Bruford again though, now that he's off the electric drum kick, just to see how they would sound.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 21:38
This is a very hard question to answer I personaly prefer bruford but I think white was better for the masses ... whites drumming isn`t as syncopated as brufords ,whites more a progressive rock drummer where bruford is more jazzy in whole, I think white is best for yes and bruford is best for king crimson  ... BTW great question  


Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 22:13

Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.

Personality wise though, Bruford doesn't seem to mesh well with the other guys. They hate each other too much to work together.

But if they could get along, i'd remove Alan White and stick Bruford in his place without thinking twice about it.



Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 22:26
that being said i'm glad he left too. I equally treasure his work with King Crimson.


Posted By: Tholomyes
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 22:36

I Like Bruford more, but i think he was the perfect drummer for King Crimson than for Yes, so White was also the best replacement.

.......

 

sorry if this is an obvious question but i dont know nothing about Yes' history...

Is it true that Bruford left Yes because of his problems with Chris Squire?



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November 08 2005 at 23:00
to the best of my knowledge Bruford left Yes because he admired King Crimson so much and wanted to join , He knew deep down that King Crimson was the band he wanted to be in !


Posted By: Proglover
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:11
Originally posted by kirklott kirklott wrote:

This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.

It depends on what you mean, exactly.

  • Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
  • Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
  • Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
  • Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
  • Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then.

So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.

Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.



Posted By: Proglover
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:12
Originally posted by gok22us gok22us wrote:

Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.

Personality wise though, Bruford doesn't seem to mesh well with the other guys. They hate each other too much to work together.

But if they could get along, i'd remove Alan White and stick Bruford in his place without thinking twice about it.

Ummmm......do they REALLY hate eachother????????



Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:18

Chris Squire and Bill Bruford supposedly have a very rocky relationship, and have come to blows

Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.



Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 00:19
Alan White because Bruford had to go to Crimson in '73.

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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity


Posted By: Genesisprog
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:01

   It`s hard to choose.Yeah,White has done more music with Yes and stuff.

   When Bruford was in the band then the band made the best Yes music ever.

   Bruford is more skilled  drummer. (Has more talent)



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Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity-    I Love Them all !


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:11
Originally posted by gok22us gok22us wrote:

Bill hates Jon Anderson's lyrics and music. He might not hate jon personally, but he doesnt like working with him.

That's not completey true. He did enjoy working with Anderson again back in 1989 for the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album. He liked Jon's enthousiasm for the music, and he liked the fact that though he couldn't understand anything from his lyrics, he still thought that Anderson was a powerful lyrics writer.



Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:17

Funny, Bruford was only for 4 years Yes' drummer, while Alan White is Yes' drummer for the last 33 years.

That says nothing about their quality though. I really like Bruford a lot, and I like a lot of the albums he played on.

Alan White has meant a lot for Yes though. Indeed as a peace keeper in the band (psychologically) and time keeper (drummer) and he contributed lots of little parts to Yes music.

Mostly I don't notice White's drumming when I listen to the Yes albums he played on. Only on Tormato there are some parts that I'm aware that he's drumming. Still, he plays an important role within Yes.



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:27
I think its like comparing apples and oranges.The best way to judge their respective skills is to listen to Rick Wakemans 'Six Wives Of Henry VIII' where they both contribute to different tracks (3 each).White is a powerhouse drummer while Bruford is more subtle.Both are excellent in their own right.That doesnt answer the question but I agree with kirklott that White has helped keep the band together over the years so that makes him more important to Yes.


Posted By: Plastic Man
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 02:52
i believe squire was better with bruford in the group. its like his bass playing went way downhill when bruford left. im a bruford man myself.


Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 03:25
The man who thinks electronic drumsets are still cool vs a good solid drummer... hmmm


Posted By: Plastic Man
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 04:20
by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?


Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:03
Originally posted by kirklott kirklott wrote:

This is an ancient question, that has been run into the ground, not by you, but by Yes fans in general.

It depends on what you mean, exactly.

  • Bill's drumming on CttE is better than Alan's drumming on Topo.
  • Alan's drumming on anything post-Topo is better than Bill's drumming on ABWH or any of Bill's silly electro drumming. In particular Alan's drumming on the Keys studio material is fantastic.
  • Alan has contributed more to the writing of Yes music.
  • Alan appreciates and respects Yes more.
  • Alan is more important in the history of Yes because he's been a stablizing influence, a peace maker, and without Alan, the chances of Yes lasting past the mid-70s would have been diminished. And while Yes was at its creative peak in the early 70s, the band has also made a lot of wonderful music since then.

So overall, I would go against the obvious answer and say Alan is more important to the history of the band.



I agree. I think that's very well put.  I'd also say that as a rythmn section, Squire and White struggled on Tales but really got their act together for Relayer. I think Alan White helped bring out another dimension to Chris Squire's playing.




Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:14

Bill Bruford is a better drummer in all senses. Alan White is very good, but he does not have that jazzy style that makes Bruford so good. I do agree with Kirklott' opinion: White is more important to Yes's history than Bruford.

By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.



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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL


Posted By: nico
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:14
I prefer Bruford but White is escellent too


Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 05:26
Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.



I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 07:41

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I think its like comparing apples and oranges.The best way to judge their respective skills is to listen to Rick Wakemans 'Six Wives Of Henry VIII' where they both contribute to different tracks (3 each).White is a powerhouse drummer while Bruford is more subtle.Both are excellent in their own right.That doesnt answer the question but I agree with kirklott that White has helped keep the band together over the years so that makes him more important to Yes.

You've nailed it there - Bruford is a jazz drummer, White is a rock drummer. I love Bruford's playing - he has a great touch - but I can't imagine Bruford playing Gates of Delirium or Ritual.



Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 08:46

The question here is who was the better drummer for Yes, and Alan White has proved himself in that capacity many times over. He established himself on Relayer and GFTO and has maintained his position on the Yes drum stool ever since, through all their ups and downs. Bruford is unquestionably the better drummer, but he was better suited to a band like King Crimson where he had the scope to improvise.



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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom




Posted By: Drachen Theaker
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 09:09
Originally posted by Phil Phil wrote:

Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.



I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.


Definitely! When you listen to Bruford's incredible drumming on Starless, it's miles better than anything he did with Yes.

Alan White is not as technically adept but is a great rock drummer, and has more than proved his worth on albums like Relayer.

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"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt


Posted By: thefalafelking
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 09:27
bruford without any doubt!! The heart of the sunrise, being the evidence of this!!! Like people earlier said on this site, is the essence of  what he would achieve later with king crimson, but bruford has always been very good, it's just that he had more space to do his own thing than in yes.


Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 10:05

Originally posted by Proglover Proglover wrote:

Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.

 

What was silly about it?



Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 11:07
ALAN WHITE... I love the Bruford era but you can't compare... both have differente styles and both have an important inffluence on Yes in their respective eras. I think Bruford is better drummer than White but Alan IS the sound of the drums in Yes actually not Bruford...

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... E N E L B U N K E R...


Posted By: Prosciutto
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 11:13

Originally posted by Plastic Man Plastic Man wrote:

i believe squire was better with bruford in the group. its like his bass playing went way downhill when bruford left. im a bruford man myself.

I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that.

In any case, while Bill is BY FAR better drummer than Alan White, I think Alan's playing fits much better the "Yes sound", his playing on the "Bruford songs" isn't that complex yet much more powerful, for example I love the way Alan plays on And you & I and Starship Trooper, he gives these songs a "rockier" yet very progressive feel. Bill is more of an experimental drummer and his style is more at home with King Crimson IMO.



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Don't be a prog-hole, please...


Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 12:55
It's not a matter of which is a better drummer ... both are extremely good at
their craft, so that argument is pointless. For every Bruford Yes highlight you
provide, I can provide an equally impressive White Yes highlight. You say
CTTE? I say The Gates of Deliriium. You say Heart of the Sunrise? I say Sound
Chaser. And the list goes on and on.

In the end, both men have contributed to, and are a part of, the legacy that
is Yes, and neither merit being compared to the other.


Posted By: Sweetmonkeylove
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 13:57
Originally posted by Charles Charles wrote:

Like Peter Gabriel with Genesis, Bill's tenure with Yes was so many years ago, but it was within those short precious years that Bill made a name for himself, but yet he became a drumming god within King Crimson....

But yet I associate Yes more with Alan then I do Bill.....

 

Alan... Relayer was his shining moment as a drummer...

 

Charles

I agree. Alan nailed Relayer especially and did a damn good job for yes. I must say though, that while Bruford was in Yes he was excellent, I much prefer his stuff with KC which is amazing. Both good drummers. But overall, for Yes at least, Bruford wins it i think, although alan does appreciate the band more and fits better. Extremely close call, but bruford is very slightly ahead.



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Isn't this the worst signature ever? I mean really?


Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 14:20
Well...Bruford is technically better and stuff...and I do like his work better...but Im happy he left Yes to join Crimson...because in Yes he did an amazing job, but in Crimson...specially in the 80!!!

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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: Tholomyes
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 14:26

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Well...Bruford is technically better and stuff...and I do like his work better...but Im happy he left Yes to join Crimson...because in Yes he did an amazing job, but in Crimson...specially in the 80!!!

Well. I prefer Bruford's playing in 70's with Wetton, in contrast to the 80's I think the Three of a perfect pair album is the weakest album that Bruford ever played. But Discipline album is an exception, just listen Indiscipline.



Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 17:32

What ever we say

I think Tales From Topographic Oceans would've been a better album had Bill drummed on it. His drumming would've made the more tedious sections a lot more interesting.



Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 17:35
I like'em both

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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway!


Posted By: drumsandbass
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 17:52
In my opinion Bruford exceeds Alan's skill. However, I could never imagine
Bruford playing on Tales. Tales is one of my favorite albums.


Posted By: The Green Tank
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 18:23
Tough tough question. I think they're both great, but I'll have to go for Bruford simply because of his amazing drumming on "And You And I"


Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 18:27

Tony Kaye got booted out (or left, I don't think anybody's sure) because his playing was no longer intricate enough for Yes's evolving sound.  Rick became more suitable for the role, so he was given it.  Bill probably didn't leave because he felt he could no longer contribute, but in my opinion he'd run his course with Yes and it was time for someone new.  I find Alan's renditions of the CTTE songs just as good as Bill's (though no better), and perhaps more suitable for an energetic live setting.  Anything before CTTE doesn't sound quite as good with Alan on drums (although it does rock harder, which is nice for the sake of variety.)  TYA and Fragile are Bill's territory.  However, can you imagine Bill playing Ritual? (I personally love Alan's performance on TFTO, though many disagree.)  How about Gates of Delerium?  Sound Chaser?  Nope.  Relayer was all Alan.  The project may have turned out differently with Bill in the drum stool, but I like it the way it is.

My point is that although Bill was (and is) undoubtedly the superior drummer (although Alan's no slouch), NIETHER can be given the title of "Difinitive Yes Drummer", because they played in two different incarnations of Yes, one which was more suited to Bill, and one which was more suited to Alan.

Just my opinion.  



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Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 18:29

Originally posted by Plastic Man Plastic Man wrote:

by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?

He lives in Seattle now.



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Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 21:14
Originally posted by gok22us gok22us wrote:

Bruford makes Yes sound a LOT better. Listen to Close to the Edge from "an evening of yes music plus" and listen to any other version with Alan White on drums, and it's apparent.

I totally disagree, and have no idea how you can say that.

Bruford's "electro" drumming is the second worst aspect of that album, after the fact that Squire's backing vocals are absent.



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"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 21:16

Originally posted by Proglover Proglover wrote:

Bill's SILLY electro drumming???????????...Well I suppose we all have our opinions.

I'm not the only person who has critiqued Bill's electro drumming in this thread.

So yes, you are entitled to your (minority) opinion.



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"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 21:20

Originally posted by Plastic Man Plastic Man wrote:

by the way, how the hell did alan white lose his british accent?

If I understand correctly, he's lived in the Seattle area for at least 2 decades.

That and tons of enriched Wonder Bread



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"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: November 09 2005 at 21:25
Originally posted by Prosciutto Prosciutto wrote:

I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that.

Well, Bruford is the Daffy Duck of prog. I made that up, so if you wish to quote me, you must pay me 25 cents for each use.

Anyway, I love Bill, but he has duck lips and criticizes everyone with his delightfully cynical dry wit. Squire is, in my opinion, the best bass player ever. So regardless of whether Squire's late to gigs or whatever, it was an honor for Bruford to play with Squire (and vice versa)



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"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 03:08
 Apart from playing abilities Alan is a much better solution. He respects the music of Yes much more than Bill. Both are excellent drummers on their on right , but Bill fits the style of King Crimson better.


Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 05:39
Originally posted by kirklott kirklott wrote:

Originally posted by Prosciutto Prosciutto wrote:

I don't think that's accurate. Bruford reportedly said "the worst nightmare for a any drummer is to play with Chris Squire" or something like that.

Well, Bruford is the Daffy Duck of prog. I made that up, so if you wish to quote me, you must pay me 25 cents for each use.

Anyway, I love Bill, but he has duck lips and criticizes everyone with his delightfully cynical dry wit. Squire is, in my opinion, the best bass player ever. So regardless of whether Squire's late to gigs or whatever, it was an honor for Bruford to play with Squire (and vice versa)

What's up, Doc??



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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL


Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: November 10 2005 at 05:40
Originally posted by Phil Phil wrote:

Originally posted by M. B. Zapelini M. B. Zapelini wrote:

By the way, Bruford's drumming with Crimson is actually better than wiht Yes.



I've just got hold of the 4 CD box set "The Great Deceiver" of live Crimson material from 73/74 and I have to agree with you.

Good choice, Phil! This box set is awesome.



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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL


Posted By: samuel.jeronimo
Date Posted: November 11 2005 at 03:55
I kinda like Bill Bruford a lot more

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http://www.jeronimosamuel.no.sapo.pt - SAMUEL JERONIMO



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