I may get crucified here, but i just don't get VDGG.

After seeing so many people rave about them i got the album 'Still Life' but was bitterly disappointed. I didnt expect them to be a doddle to listen to and i enjoy a challenge but It seems musically messy and wholy focused on Peter Hammills over theatrical and dramatic voice sounding like he is performing in some god awful second rate musical.

Your gonna tell me its a grower now, i think ive listened to it maybe 10 times, i find the lyrics interesting  but thats not enough for me, where is the MUSIC?

Please someone recommend an album of theirs to me that proves there is more to VDGG than this. 

Two words:

Pawn Hearts.

Alternatively, one silly one:

Godbluff

HI EVERYBODY.

Iván, my friend, don't you think that 'Pawn Hearts' is maybe too much for an introduction into the world of VdGG? Maybe Petra should try 'The Least We Can Do is Wave Each Other' or 'H to he Who Am The Only One' (albums 2 and 3). If nothing happens, and 'Still Life' doesn't grow, maybe there's no use trying 'Pawn Hearts'  - after all, it's their most intense and dissonant album.

But I agree with you in that 'Pawn Hearts' is their most amazing release.

Regards.

I recommend early VdGG for starters. A lot of times people are in 2 different camps. That of their early stuff., or their material from Godbluff and on. Someone recommended Godbluff to ya. If you didn't like Still Life you probably won't care for Godbluff either as they are similiar. It took me 1 listen to Pawn Hearts to fall in love with them. That would be my recommendation

Thanks guys,

I think i will give Pawn Hearts a miss for now Im not sure im ready for that yet! Maybe i will take Cesar Inca's advise.

 Its possible it may grow on me given time, that happened with Caravan, when i first heard 'In The land of Pink and Grey' i was horrified at the tweeness of it but now i find it one of the most uplifting albums i have.

"It took me 1 listen to Pawn Hearts to fall in love with them."

Well, in my case, I was already in love with them when I first listened to Pawn Hearts. I was already familiar with a 69-71 compilation, as well as Godbluff, The Least... and H to He... - of course, I fell madly in love with Pawn Hearts during listen 1.

Or you could just not bother.

I understand well the merits of 'challenging' music (my own collection contains many works that would make the average person flee in terror and/ or confusion) but after decades of waiting for VDGG/ Hammill to grow on me, I've pretty much decided it's not going to happen. I was exposed to the music when I first got into prog, and hated it. I found his vocals and lyrics pretentious yet adolescent and the instrumentation amateurish, with neither the power of classical, the technique or feel of jazz, nor the drive and energy of rock.

After a while I thought that maybe I hadn't been ready for them and tried again- and still hated them. Finally, after many more years, I came to this site and again read how amazing and unique and rewarding VDGG and Hammill were to so many folks, so I donated some time to "H to He" and "Pawn Hearts" (and even a few of Hammill's solo albums). Again, it not only didn't impress me, it actively irritated me and everyone around me, including my pets. My wife voiced a desire to strangle Mr. Hammill after hearing "Man- Erg"- and this is a woman who has no difficulty listening to Captain Beefheart or The Shaggs (although she does get testy when I put on The Legendary Stardust Cowboy).

Giving music a chance is one thing, but I don't think there's any point in wasting time trying to make yourself like something just because it works for a lot of other people- you might as well develop a taste for pop music if the weight of others' opinions means so much. Honestly, you can bring yourself to appreciate almost anything if you listen to it enough times with a receptive attitude. There are way too many good bands out there to spend all that effort on one that isn't working for you after a few listens.

Cesar Inca wrote: Iván, my friend

Did you think I was someone else there?

Anyway, Pawn Hearts was my introduction to the band, and while it took awhile for me to appreciate it, I can now safely say that I quite like it.

Useful_Idiot wrote: Cesar Inca wrote: Iván, my friend Did you think I was someone else there? Anyway, Pawn Hearts was my introduction to the band, and while it took awhile for me to appreciate it, I can now safely say that I quite like it.

I agree, there's no better introduction to VdGG than "Pawn Hearts". My first approach as well, difficult to digest at that time, but it's become one of my favorite albums during the years.

VDGG are a challnge for many people and they dont always grow on you. I had trouble with Godbluff and Still life. I thought they were generally dull and unremarkable albums with isolated moments of genius. I later heard Pawn Hearts which I thought was ok.

Without wishing to seem like a pleb, trumpeting the virtues of a 'Best of..' album, I think the best place to start with VDGG is a compilation called 'An Introduction - From the Least to Quiet Zone'

This is a collection of their finest, and most direct and memorable music IMHO. There is no faulting tracks like 'Sleepwalkers' 'Still life' 'Man-ERG' and 'Killer' They are full of passion, quirkiness and musical changes that keep interest levels up. I reccomend this album highly, and I am not a fan of their overall output. This is a gem, though.

James Lee may have a  point life is too short to waste time on music that doesn't connect after a few listens BUT i'm still curious to see what VDGG other material is like.

Blacksword another good suggestion but im always wary of 'Best of...' albums especially with Prog as its normally its the flow and atmosphere of complete albums that attracts me.

Petra wrote: James Lee may have a  point life is too short to waste time on music that doesn't connect after a few listens BUT i'm still curious to see what VDGG other material is like. Blacksword another good suggestion but im always wary of 'Best of...' albums especially with Prog as its normally its the flow and atmosphere of complete albums that attracts me.

Petra, I very much agree in principle about compilation albums. The thought of a Rush or Genesis compilation sends a shudder through me!!

I found the 'flow' on the VDGG albums I've heard to be rather soperific to be honest. Thats whay I would rate this compilation, it is IMHO a collection of the best VDDG tunes I've heard.

You should Try "The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome" if you don't like the music displayed on Still Life, on this recording the organ and sax isn't around, the bass is very dominant, and a violinist has been added.

For me it also only required one listen to Pawn Hearts to absolutely fall in love with this band. VdGG possibly ranks as my favourite of the old classic English prog bands, their sound is very unique, the emphasis on organ and sax, together with Hammill's eccentricities, voice and lyrics is really what distinguishes VdGG from other bands.

yep, the best thing I can say about VDGG is that the music demands attention. I have to credit Hammill with never letting the music turn into a wash of ambiguous sounds like many bands- everything was pretty up-front and unadulterated. Despite my obvious distaste, I owe full marks to him for always being completely frank and uncompromisingly expressive in his presentation- possibly the reason Johnny "Rotten" Lydon values VDGG's work.

Which inspires an interesting question: which is better, having something important to say and not being able to successfully express it, or having the talent to make your ideas clear but the ideas themselves are less than remarkable? A lot of the punk bands were loud and clear even though relatively few of them really said much (I love the fact that McLaren told the Sex Pistols to write a song called "Submission" and they turned it into "submarine mission"), and a lot of prog bands expressed major concepts in clumsy or ill-fitting musical passages (for instance, I love Gabriel's work, but sometimes the man admittedly just crammed the words in wherever he could).

Although I do like VDGG's music, I can understand where Petra and greenback are coming from, and agree with James Lee's advice to Petra. In the end, if you don't like something, you don't like it, period/full stop.

Speaking generally, in some cases I find it more difficult to understand why some people either like it or dislike a particular piece of music but, in other cases (and VDGG is one of them), I can immediately understand that others may have a very different opinion.

Some albums generate such polarisation of opinion, but I'm sure life would be dull if we all liked exactly the same things; what would be left to discuss or argue about?!

The VDGG formula either appeals to you or it doesn't, and if Hammills voice doesn't appeal to you on one album, it's unlikely to meet with your approval on any other.

Still Life is not a good place to start either IMO. I actually reccomend a best of album called 'From the least to the Quiet Zone' I've been shot down in flames here before for suggesting that a 'Best of' album may have any worth, but it's where I started and it led me onto their other albums. However, if I'm right in that you either like the VDGG way of doing things or you dont, then at least you will have a compilation of their most 'upbeat' and 'listernable' material.. The track selection is:

Darkness
Refugees
Killer
Theme 1
Man ERG..
Sleepwalkers
Still Life
When she Comes
Sphinx in the Face

I should pay attention. I have repeated myself in this thread....

I guess somethings need no end of emphasis....

Hello Petra, you've said in your post "Where's the music", I think that if you're searching about intense passages or loud melodies, maybe "Still Life" is not a good start for you even if it's my fave album from VDGG. You know, VDGG cannot be appreciate after ten listening in one week. It took me about 2 or years of listening few albums to appreciate.

If you want strong music instead of strong lyrics, I strongly recommend you "At Least What We Can Do Is To Wave To Each Others?", their second offering.

The sax and keyboard it's very powerfull in the opening track. (You know VDGG dont cocentrate their music on guitar.)

But, I agree also with people here that Pawn hearts is not difficult to like it!!!

Good luck and I hope you will be able to enjoy one of the best ever prog group (IMO)

Geez, I thought this was a Prog Site, you guys are all complaining about "How hard it is to get into"....

DarHobo wrote: Geez, I thought this was a Prog Site, you guys are all complaining about "How hard it is to get into"....

You'll meet a lot of very different types of music fan here. Not everyone likes prog for the challenge, alas.

BaldJean wrote: The first album of VdGG I ever listened to was "Godbluff". I liked the music, but couldn't cope with the voice at all. I forced myself to listen to the music trying to ignore the voice. Suddenly, I don't know how and when, I realized the way Hammill sings is the exact right way to bring his lyrics across, and I did a full 180 degree turn. Today I think Hammill is the best voice in rock, and nothing compares to him. Friede and I have all albums of VdGG and PH (some 50 or 60+), and none rates below 3; most of them higher, and some, like "Pawn Hearts", "Godbluff", "Vital" (yes, "Vital"!) or "The Fall of the House of Usher" (to name a few) get 5 stars from me. My advice is: Listen to the voice while studying the lyric sheet. If you don't get into the singing then, there is no help for you; Hammill just isn't your cup of tea then. And the same goes for the music that accompanies the lyrics. It absolutely "fits". In no other music there is such a tight relation between lyrics, music and singing as in the music of VdGG and Hammill. It is extremely "dense". Perhaps this "density" is too much for some.

Oh boy!! I agree totally with what you say and as soon as i got used to his voice i enjoyed them! 

This thread was one of my very first posts over a year ago!!! I am now a bit of a Hammill fan, infact i prefer his solo albums especially In Camera and Nadir's Big Chance to a lot of VDGG. But why do i always think that Hammill is kind of taking the mick a little, with his singing?

The simple fact is that with a certain amount of exposure to a genre of music you do grow to appreciate it more and during the past year my music tastes have changed dramtatically, for the better of course!

This thread is a little bit irrelevant now

Trouserpress wrote: Look at the dates, chaps. Petra posted this nearly a year ago. Since then I'm pretty sure she's learnt to appreciate some VDGG. Especially considering as her avatar is now of Gnidrolog's Lady Lake which has more than a passing similarity to VDGG.

EXACTLY!!

Petra wrote: This thread is a little bit irrelevant now

Well, it demostrates one may grow to like some music s/he doesn't like at first!