A Manual Dexterity should be added on PA imo. Very experimental/post rock, avant garde and electronic music.

He is also playing with his other "solo" band called Omar Rodriguez Quintet wich is very very influenced by Mahavishnu Orchestra. Without a doubt he is the genious on TMV and not Cedric Bixler.

Yes, you're right in that case. Cedric wrote it. But musically and also both write the lyrics not only Cedric, Omar is THE man behind TMV.

omar is his own person, musically...i adore his songwriting skills and if you are a fan of TMV/ATDI or his solo stuff at all you'll find yoiurself amazed too or it would seem due to common sense. I think some people might be uncomfortable with him due to him being a little out there musically and personally...but i love him and his experimental style. He is a genious in my opinion, albeit sometimes a flawed genius, but all geniuses have flaws.

*PS about the all-minor key written flavors...he's moves to major keys a lot in ATDI and he throws in major chords all around de-loused and the mute. But i will say, due to the very nature of the music, I couldn't really picture TMV playing songs in major keys. Imagine TMV playing Gentle Giant...just doesn't work. I think TMV calls for minor/pentatonic keys, so that is what is used. I personally enjoy the darker sound...

70sSoundquality wrote: The Ryan wrote: Everytime I ask a local guitarist what they think of the Mars Volta's guitarwork they tend to say it's nothing special or it's disappointing. I wonder what this means in terms of the Mars Volta growing more of a fanbase (perhaps of actual musicians, not kids who listen to MTV), and also I'd like to hear someone try to recreate what Omar does - Never heard anyone. Im just on a negative trail today. I will be as neat and clean about this as possible. The reason why Omar's guitar playing bothers me is because he doesn't have technique. As mainly a guitar player and a keyboard player, I know what it means to be able to solo well and to ALWAYS have licks up my sleeve, licks that ABSOLUTELY fit, and to be able to have these licks at any given time- no matter what set of notes a bassist throws to me. I do not feel safe with omar, I do not feel that he could keep up with disciplined musicians so I agree with the "nothing special" opinion.

See, this seems to be the problem - do you have to feel safe with a musician to consider his/her playing good? What I mean is, take John Petrucci - he's got his bag of combat-tested tricks and licks and you nearly always know where you stand with him. I love his playing, but this bag of his is quite limited, no doubt about it.  Now take Allan Holdsworth - many people don't get his music, it sounds unpredictable, but I'm pretty certain he has his own assortment of tricks, much wider than Petrucci's, and he can make use of those tricks in a much more creative way - hence the 'unpredictability'. I'm not implying that Omar is up there with Holdsworth, but I'm sure he's searching and trying to expand his arsenal. He isn't always finding, of course, but in the context of TMV's music, which seems to revolve around the concept of disintegration, even his mistakes and exaggerations sort of make sense, IMO.   

Manunkind wrote: 70sSoundquality wrote: The Ryan wrote: Everytime I ask a local guitarist what they think of the Mars Volta's guitarwork they tend to say it's nothing special or it's disappointing. I wonder what this means in terms of the Mars Volta growing more of a fanbase (perhaps of actual musicians, not kids who listen to MTV), and also I'd like to hear someone try to recreate what Omar does - Never heard anyone. Im just on a negative trail today. I will be as neat and clean about this as possible. The reason why Omar's guitar playing bothers me is because he doesn't have technique. As mainly a guitar player and a keyboard player, I know what it means to be able to solo well and to ALWAYS have licks up my sleeve, licks that ABSOLUTELY fit, and to be able to have these licks at any given time- no matter what set of notes a bassist throws to me. I do not feel safe with omar, I do not feel that he could keep up with disciplined musicians so I agree with the "nothing special" opinion. See, this seems to be the problem - do you have to feel safe with a musician to consider his/her playing good? What I mean is, take John Petrucci - he's got his bag of combat-tested tricks and licks and you nearly always know where you stand with him. I love his playing, but this bag of his is quite limited, no doubt about it.  Now take Allan Holdsworth - many people don't get his music, it sounds unpredictable, but I'm pretty certain he has his own assortment of tricks, much wider than Petrucci's, and he can make use of those tricks in a much more creative way - hence the 'unpredictability'. I'm not implying that Omar is up there with Holdsworth, but I'm sure he's searching and trying to expand his arsenal. He isn't always finding, of course, but in the context of TMV's music, which seems to revolve around the concept of disintegration, even his mistakes and exaggerations sort of make sense, IMO.

Luckily I never said my opinion, as I have not yet made up my opinion. Professional/amateur musician's opinions will not set my mind one way or the other.

The Ryan wrote: Manunkind wrote: 70sSoundquality wrote: The Ryan wrote: Everytime I ask a local guitarist what they think of the Mars Volta's guitarwork they tend to say it's nothing special or it's disappointing. I wonder what this means in terms of the Mars Volta growing more of a fanbase (perhaps of actual musicians, not kids who listen to MTV), and also I'd like to hear someone try to recreate what Omar does - Never heard anyone. Im just on a negative trail today. I will be as neat and clean about this as possible. The reason why Omar's guitar playing bothers me is because he doesn't have technique. As mainly a guitar player and a keyboard player, I know what it means to be able to solo well and to ALWAYS have licks up my sleeve, licks that ABSOLUTELY fit, and to be able to have these licks at any given time- no matter what set of notes a bassist throws to me. I do not feel safe with omar, I do not feel that he could keep up with disciplined musicians so I agree with the "nothing special" opinion. See, this seems to be the problem - do you have to feel safe with a musician to consider his/her playing good? What I mean is, take John Petrucci - he's got his bag of combat-tested tricks and licks and you nearly always know where you stand with him. I love his playing, but this bag of his is quite limited, no doubt about it.  Now take Allan Holdsworth - many people don't get his music, it sounds unpredictable, but I'm pretty certain he has his own assortment of tricks, much wider than Petrucci's, and he can make use of those tricks in a much more creative way - hence the 'unpredictability'. I'm not implying that Omar is up there with Holdsworth, but I'm sure he's searching and trying to expand his arsenal. He isn't always finding, of course, but in the context of TMV's music, which seems to revolve around the concept of disintegration, even his mistakes and exaggerations sort of make sense, IMO.    Luckily I never said my opinion, as I have not yet made up my opinion. Professional/amateur musician's opinions will not set my mind one way or the other.

+1

Although I like to learn other people's opinions on music and art in general, especially the opinions of artists themselves. They rarely influence my enjoyment, but they provide different perspectives, something I'm interested in.

Petrucci can have all the techniques in the world but there's a thing he doesn't have: Feeling. And Omar has it all the time he plays at every concert.

Tholomyes wrote: Petrucci can have all the techniques in the world but there's a thing he doesn't have: Feeling. And Omar has it all the time he plays at every concert.

Ah yes, there's that subjective term again, worn meaningless from overuse.

Manunkind wrote: Tholomyes wrote: Petrucci can have all the techniques in the world but there's a thing he doesn't have: Feeling. And Omar has it all the time he plays at every concert.   Ah yes, there's that subjective term again, worn meaningless from overuse.

 really subjective...

but yes! ...but Omar still has that worn term in his veins.

Tholomyes wrote: Manunkind wrote: Tholomyes wrote: Petrucci can have all the techniques in the world but there's a thing he doesn't have: Feeling. And Omar has it all the time he plays at every concert.   Ah yes, there's that subjective term again, worn meaningless from overuse.  really subjective... but yes! ...but Omar still has that worn term in his veins.

This is a thread on Omar, so I'm just going to say this - try to play a Petrucci solo, even a fast one, while having your muscles stiff (a prerequisite for 'emotionless' playing, as far as I understand) and doing your best to focus on nailing the solo. Good luck. Then try to play the same solo relaxed and not thinking of anything in particular. You'll get closer, but this is still not going to be it. 

As for Omar - not to dis him (I love his playing), but is he doing something really new? On the whole, his approach seems quite similar to 60/70s' psychadelic bands. Even the accusations of the opponents are similar - 'meandering', 'random cr*p' etc..

FragileDT wrote: I love Omar Rodriguez's style for what it is. His style of playing reminds me a lot of Fripp except that I feel Fripp is a much more versatile player. Fripp can play the randomness style of Omar (though not jamming, he knows why he's playing each note and in what key the notes correspond.) Fripp can also play melody in major keys very well (Perfect example: Starless.) Fripp can also play blues VERY well and can play a very impressive blues solo (see Peter Gabriel 1: Waiting for the Big One.) Omar is a great guitarist and could even be very versatile but just holds off on playing those styles to maintain the style and sound of TMV.

So i recommed his A Manual Dexterity Vol I. where he experiments with acoustic guitars, afrocuban styles, soundscapes and many more.

FragileDT wrote: Tholomyes wrote: FragileDT wrote: I love Omar Rodriguez's style for what it is. His style of playing reminds me a lot of Fripp except that I feel Fripp is a much more versatile player. Fripp can play the randomness style of Omar (though not jamming, he knows why he's playing each note and in what key the notes correspond.) Fripp can also play melody in major keys very well (Perfect example: Starless.) Fripp can also play blues VERY well and can play a very impressive blues solo (see Peter Gabriel 1: Waiting for the Big One.) Omar is a great guitarist and could even be very versatile but just holds off on playing those styles to maintain the style and sound of TMV. So i recommed his A Manual Dexterity Vol I. where he experiments with acoustic guitars, afrocuban styles, soundscapes and many more. That's good to hear. I'm definitely going to check that out one of these days. I like Omar's playing a lot so I'm sure I would like to hear other styles and see how he manages them.

But there are 3 tracks aprox. that are only noise, improv and soundscape. Then the last track Cedric sings and you could say it's a mars volta song, but not.

FragileDT wrote: Tholomyes wrote: FragileDT wrote: Tholomyes wrote: FragileDT wrote: I love Omar Rodriguez's style for what it is. His style of playing reminds me a lot of Fripp except that I feel Fripp is a much more versatile player. Fripp can play the randomness style of Omar (though not jamming, he knows why he's playing each note and in what key the notes correspond.) Fripp can also play melody in major keys very well (Perfect example: Starless.) Fripp can also play blues VERY well and can play a very impressive blues solo (see Peter Gabriel 1: Waiting for the Big One.) Omar is a great guitarist and could even be very versatile but just holds off on playing those styles to maintain the style and sound of TMV. So i recommed his A Manual Dexterity Vol I. where he experiments with acoustic guitars, afrocuban styles, soundscapes and many more. That's good to hear. I'm definitely going to check that out one of these days. I like Omar's playing a lot so I'm sure I would like to hear other styles and see how he manages them. But there are 3 tracks aprox. that are only noise, improv and soundscape. Then the last track Cedric sings and you could say it's a mars volta song, but not.   So are there only 4 tracks on the album?

No.

There are 10 tracks, and only 3 aprox of them are a mix of improv, noise, etc. The 10th track is where Cedric sings, because the rest is without vocals.