flower Kings ... as good as genesis??
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Topic: flower Kings ... as good as genesis??
Posted By: Zitro
Subject: flower Kings ... as good as genesis??
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 00:41
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I never imagined myself saying this, but I think the Flower kings grown so much on me that I like them more than Yes (my previous #1 band), now I like them as much as Genesis and only Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are more enjoyable (and barely). This band has everything I want: Consistency, a discography with no weak albums, very few weak tracks, Beautiful atmospherics that surpasses 70s yes (because of the modern technology), Good epics, a guitarist as complete as Steve Howe who has a neat bluesy vocal style, A great bass player that reminds me of David Lebon (Seru Giran), and some of the best percussion I've heard. The keyboardist is my least favourite member (after the new bass player and the drummers came), but he still manages to sound great most of the time. His album "I AM" is pretty good. I wish this band would get more recognition. It has the virtuosity of Yes and the beauty of Genesis. I also like the general happy tone of it. It sounds like Progged-up beatles in the first albums. Sometimes, they amaze me when they get influenced. "The World of Adventures" which is clearly influenced by the beatles sound as good as the beatles best songs. Rumble Twist Fish is clearly influenced by Camel, and it sounds better than anything Camel did. By the way, in "hummanizmo" (one of my favourite epic from Roine by the way) has 2 things that just blow me away : The church organ riffary + "THIS IS THE NIGHT" and when the epic is about to end ... I hear an awesome wail from Roine. Trust me, it puts the dude from Pain of Salvation to shame. Anyways, I'll stop rambling. Flower Kings ---> Prog Kings. I should edit my reviews as I like them much more as before.
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Replies:
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 00:43
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I agree with a lot you say......TFK are growing on me day by day........they are very amazing IMO! ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 01:24
I`ve had a great deal of respect for The Flower kings for many years, great band  However I think Gabriel Genesis is Brilliant also , Yes in Flower Kings own way they do provide me as much enjoyment I think 
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Posted By: transend
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 01:34
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In a word, NO I LOVE the Flower Kings, don't get me wrong, I have all their CDs, but their material has never been totally consistent to me. I firmly believe they have alot to do on the new release 'Paradox hotel' to make up for the awful 'Adam and eve'. That album had so few strong moments...I was stunned that they could follow up 'Unfold the future' with an album that was so much worse..so in that sense, no, they are not better than Genesis. Even their worst albums are still good. |
Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 01:39
| The last two Flower Kings albums are so astonishing and near polar opposites. The Flower Kings have covered more ground than most bands are able, because a group with true talent can sound anyway they want. Take for example the jazz-influenced "Unfold The Future", to the well laid out aspects of "Adam & Eve", and think about how this band could make more mainstream-sounding music, such as the songs off of "The Rainmaker" and "Space Revolver". I feel like The Flower Kings have gone from sounding like UK, to Yes, to maybe Genesis, to just sounding like the Flower Kings with their latest album. If their 2006 album sounds different than everything else they have previously done then they may very well be my new favorite band, as for now I feel the same as Zitro pretty much. I listen to Yes, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd along with The Flower Kings. Talk about four amazing bands.... |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 02:06
yep ------------- 
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transend wrote:Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 02:50
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The flower kings are the kings of prog. |
Posted By: samuel.jeronimo
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 03:03
Yep too ------------- http://www.jeronimosamuel.no.sapo.pt - SAMUEL JERONIMO |
Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 08:09
| I'll give a thumbs up to that NO as well.... |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 08:36
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Are you kidding me???????? Hell NO!!Transatlantic,for instance,is more influenced by Beatles (just listen to Suite Charlotte Pike...a tribute to Abbey Road,IMHO  ),while TFK, along with Spock's Beard,are just FOLLOWERS of Yes,Camel and even Dream Theater.I'd rather prefer the second-quality neo-prog band,than something from this "new sympho" stuff.They'll never reach the position,that the old prog occupies.How can the New music emerge from the old basis? A new messiahs???Ha-Ha!!  They're a making a 4-stars CDs,not more.That's their maximum IMHO,Toll & Opeth sound much progger and interesting then these cheesy guys Well...that's does NOT mean ,that I'm NOT listening to them I have few albums from each band(TFK,SB,Trans etc),but I just despise their attitude to what their doing.Who do they think they are???  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 08:44
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Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 08:52
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This must be a joke! I like TFK - they create very interesting and mind-affected music, but certainly it's not the same level that Genesis. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 09:48
Yep four!!!! Let us not loose sense of perspective: they do not come to waist-height of the 70's giants While I agree that TFK's discography is much more even than Genesis or Yes, these guys invented NOTHING, pumping everything from the afore-mentioned groups, downright copying ans almost plagiarising them. I can only classify them as retro-prog - although I must admit the last album I listened from them is Stardust We Are but the last I heard was Space Revolver , but there is albsolutely no difference. I always wondered if these guys were not the most aimless band around , making extra long tracks for no good reasons except just making them long. They just meander around, making circles, head North East South and West butactually go nowhere. And they were dismal , the only time I ever saw them, live. They stopped halfway through Retropolis (the tour was promoting that album or Stardust), because they could not do it all. But if memory serves me well, this was therir first tour with a permanent line-up ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 09:55
Yepper. They don't come even close to Genesis. The Flower Kings Bore me. Pre Collins era Genesis never bores me. Now if I were to compare Collins era Genesis to The Flowerkings, I'd opt for the latter. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 10:38
The Flower Kings are easily, in my opinion, the best thing happening in music today.  ...and what's this!?   ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: BebieM
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 11:49
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Hmm, honestly? No, they're not! |
Posted By: Flip_Stone
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 12:28
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NO. It's extremely unlikely that The Flower Kings will ever even come close to the quality, originality, and intricacy of Genesis. Personally, I don't think much of them. I wouldn't mind returning my copy of Adam and Eve (an utter waste of money IMHO).
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Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 13:24
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Let's see... both bands have a lot of brilliant moments, both can be equally boring/annoying, both have usually tolerable singers, Genesis is more original than TFK, TFK hasn't sold out. So yeah, The Flower Kings is as good as Genesis ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 13:29
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I'm going to go ahead and agree with you. The Flower Kings' musicianship and compositions are at the same level of quality, and I find them very enjoyable. The only thing is that Genesis was way before The Flower Kings. I think that's why everybody writes stuff like this off so quickly. The music is as good, but it's not as important (historically) or influential. I think it's unfair to judge based on the aforementioned. It's like this in all areas of music it seems. When you ask someone who the greatest guitarist of all time is, majortiy vote will probably be to Jimi Hendrix. Why is this? Surely, it isn't because of his skill or songwriting. It's because of his groundbreaking ideas and techniques. He influenced so many. Nowadays, if you put Jimi up against (roughly) any guitarist (especially in prog), the other guy will destroy him. So, I think The Flower Kings are as good, and as enjoyable as Genesis, but they will never get as much credit because of their chronological place in music. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: Sir Hogweed
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 14:04
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Well, it's called p.r.o.g. Not for those who don't like a musical journey (or even roundtrip) once every now and then. I truly didn't expect to read this kind of language on a prog site |
Posted By: Sir Hogweed
Date Posted: January 30 2006 at 14:30
Yep indeed. TFK is an anachronism and I think their music isn't any less genuine because of that. It's high quality stuff, especially the epics. Still... Supper's Ready may be my all time favorite epic |
Posted By: Mongo
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 03:15
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They're good but not "that" good. ------------- "The options are ever fewer on the ground these days" Fish |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 04:11
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I like most of Flower Kings' works, but comparing them to Genesis would be a little excessive! Moreover, Genesis (THANK GOD) never did record such pointless and annoying instrumental mayhems like Rumble fish twist, Christianopel, Too late for tomatoes and the like... ------------- A flower? 
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Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 04:28
OH MY GOD, YET ANOTHER ALBUM FROM TFK! It seems Roine Stolt really can't sit still... And it's going to be a double one...should we expect LOTS of filler as with Unfold the Future?  ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Sharier
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 05:44
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Now that I have been hearing the Flower Kings for several months now, I
can assertively say that no other band has successfully re-create and
utilise the seventies style prog-rock after the nineties. In fact I
don't think any other band even tried. That makes FK sound too good to
me. Style and patches sound like the seventies, yet all materials are
new and adventurous. Indeed sometimes FK sounds like the long lost
Genesis (if they continued, they would have made similar stuffs). I
can't find anything to complain against this fantastic band of new era. |
Posted By: luc4fun
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 06:38
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I recently discovered TFK and I am slowly getting their CDs. Very very good band with talented musicians...May be one of the best bands around nowadays. ------------- Site Admin at www.progrockwall.com the first social network for Proggers! |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 10:28
Considering each disc is said to be just over 60 minutes, I doubt there'll be filler... when Roine tries, he can get the 78 minutes out of each disc.
Rumble Fish Twist, pointless? You're mad! Too Late For Tomatoes is also one of their best instrumentals, and it's purely improvised. Christianopel is an acquired taste, but it's certainly not bad...------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 31 2006 at 10:31
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< making extra long tracks for no good reasons except just making them long> QUOTE]
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Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: February 01 2006 at 04:53
Yes, I usually am completely out of my head  But when it comes to music I prefer well-structured compositions. I know many of you praise improvisation: well I'm not so much into it. That's why I cannot digest tracks like the one I mentioned, or Providence and Starless and Bible Black by King Crimson or several of Emerson's extravaganzas! I, on the other side, am very fond of instrumental tracks like TFK's Circus Brimstone (which is one of my favourite TFK's tracks and I consider a real masterpiece) or Anglagard's Jördrok, because they are well structured and autoconsistent even if they clock at more than 10 minutes each. Ditto for what concerns Godspeed You Black Emperor's compositions: they follow a well-defined pattern and use buildups and fades to convey the dramaticity their tracks require. Obviously that's my opinion! ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 00:21
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The one thing that both bands certainly have in common is that all their albums are a mixture of mediocricity and genius. I think the Flowerkings just about have the edge over Genesis though overall! |
Posted By: Thufir Hawat
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 00:59
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The Flower Kings have a more modern sound (obviously) but never the less I like The Flower Kings better. ------------- "I can't see through my eye lids" |
Posted By: Oxygen Waster
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 01:48
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I pesonally think that The Flower Kings are alot better than Genesis.
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Posted By: ProgShine
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 07:52
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Since I bought Adam & Eve i agree with this, together with the 70's band, The Flower Kings is the only band that put together the 70's and the today. ------------- https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com 
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Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 19:58
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I LIKE BOTH BANDS BUT WOULD PREFER TO LISTEN TO A 'BEST OF ' FLOWERKINGS ALBUM THAN A 'BEST OF' GENESIS ALBUM. SO YEAH, I WOULD SAY THE FLOWERKINGS ARE BETTER THAN GENESIS....JUST! |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 22:55
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First of all, Genesis is a very old band, with an incredible sound given the time in wich they started. So, they will allways win, just because of that. The Flower Kings... too much noise. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: February 04 2006 at 23:27
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Wow, Lots of positive replies! Yes and Genesis were more groundbraking, but I still find The Flower Kings as one of the most creative bands around today (Mars Volta is easily the winner on that though (Weird stuff)). I also love how diverse they are. Not to forget, the Symphonic sound is phenomenal. It sounds like there are 10 musicians playing at the same time. I understand Christianopel as pointless, but Rumble Fish Twist? That's one of their best songs! How can the gorgeous 2nd half be pointless? The next album is released that soon and is a double album? uhhh, that doesn't look too good |
. They should use more time, or they could end up with another RainMaker.Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 00:03
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Yes. Pretty much all songs by The Flower Kings to me are at least good. Then they have those select songs on each album are absolutely FANTASTIC. You can take the fantastic ones, put them all together and have the same amount of material as early Genesis (Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb).... except better. Then you have enough left over tracks to make quite a few solid albums. Yeah, some TFK songs are filler, but I can't think of a band that don't have at least one filler track. Hell, the latter-era Genesis had entire ALBUMS of filler. ------------- 
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Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 02:23
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please tell me what later Genesis album was entirely filler? -------------
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Posted By: Ironing Mike
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 03:15
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The Flower Kings are as good as The Flower Kings. IM ------------- It's a rainy day, sunshine girl |
Posted By: ghostdog
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 14:59
No weak albums? Adam and Eve is mostly terrible. That bit about the porn star in the title track. Laughable. Prog cheese at its stinkiest. Seriously dude, it's great that you love the Flower Kings, as they have some enjoyable records, but they are not even in the same class as Yes or Genesis of the 70's, let alone the Beatles. A certain degree of objectivity is needed here. |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 16:33
| Sorry folks I haven't heard any album by the Flower Kings. Perhaps I ought to start. What do you suggest to begin with? Please don't say their best one as I won't have anything to build up to. Something in the middle, eh! |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 16:56
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Anything up to and including 'Space Revolver' [probably their best] but anything after I was dissapointed with, although they do include at least one enjoyable epic! |
Posted By: maribor
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 18:17
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No way. They have totally forgetable hooks, no really good melodies and don't get me started on the lyrics. The playing is good however but that's not enough. |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 18:48
yOU ARE OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO gENESIS |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 04:59
I disagree wholeheartedly! IMHO Adam and Eve is TFK's best work since Space Revolver (although it is not as good) In particular, it stands tall and proud when put side to side with Unfold the future, which is almost completely forgettable save for the wonderful opening track The truth will set you free and a couple of other excerpts ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 05:01
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don't get me started on the lyrics. ------------- Billy Connolly Dream Theater Terry Gilliam Hagen Quartet Jethro Tull Mike Keneally |
Posted By: TOD KREMER
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 18:49
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Not fair to put anyone besides Yes up against Genesis. I just listened to the Flower King's "Alive From Planet Earth" and was completely blown away. Unlike alot of the Neo Prog (full of MM), there are actual songs here! If they are trying to be retro, I guess it's working (perhaps it is the familiarity that I am subconsciously responding to). It is hands down, the best prog album I have heard since the 70's and no one is more surprised than I am. T |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:13
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I used to be impressed by the Flower Kings, and other bands like Ayreon and Spock's Beard, but that's because I wasn't really *listening* to the classics.. neo-prog has the advantage of the easier hook and for a while I was caught. However I can't stand to listen to any of them anymore; each so happy, so ludicrous in places, irritatingly glib and religious in others and all with entire albums of filler dressed up as epics. I can't believe I was so stupid.
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:18
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Just bought their first two albums (in a "2-in-1" kinda' box) and I must say that that's VERY good stuff! The Genesis influence is clearly there, but thy doesn't directly rip'em. I recommend those two albums for a starting point. Try to get the "2-in-1" version. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
Posted By: TOD KREMER
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:24
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laplace, Are you saying you've given up on all NEO Prog? That sounds a bit jaded.........
All the old stuff, we know in our sleep and it is always exciting to here something new that you like. I admit that you have to "kiss alot of frogs" and the return is a low % but I will always keep trying. I agree that it is debatable as to how fresh it may be.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:36
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I certainly won't be investigating new neo-prog releases anymore, and my hopes for new symphonic music certainly does not rest on the movement. That's not to say I don't look forward to new music, of course, but now I'm looking towards the avant-garde side of the spectrum - bands like Ruins, Present, Thinking Plague and many more besides are still making challenging and rewarding music. Post-rock is not for me, but I'm interested in the bands that wrestle it into something more exciting, such as Guapo and Kayo Dot. Even on the more commercial side, The Mars Volta are an exciting band who play passionate, surprising music - even if they're little more than enthusiastic art rock, really. All that and possible new Rush and King Crimson albums keeps me contemporary. Between these bands and the broad depth of past works of bands I've yet to sample, I don't think it's too much of a concern to entirely cut neo-prog from my listening.. |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:50
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The Flowers are a fine prog band who recreate the great sounds of 70's prog.They are highly talented and inventive and are greatly underrated by many.But to compare them to Genesis aka Gabriel is just silly.Enjoy them for what they are a modern prog band who can and still deliver excellent music but they cannot compare to the masters.
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 20:53
The same thing happened to me. TFK has grown very very much on me. And i also agree they have everything, and i think it's far to compare the to yes or genesis. Musically i find them more refined htan genesis and yes, they jazzy influences and improvisation-like playing is quite simply amazing. I'm a bass player, and i'm a fan of chris squire, but i have to say that TFK's bassist impressed me more than Squire, his technique is admirable, and the drumming of TFK is woooow. This two elements combined makes TFK's music very very sofisticated, much more than Genesis and Yes music , but i recognise that TFK would never have existed if Genesis and Yes and some other bands have appeared first (they 've shown the way). Without a doubt The 70's symphonic prog were the ones who invented a style that every other symhponic band would later follow, but i enjoy more the music of bands like TFK, Anglagärd, Sinkadus, SB,.., and musically there's no doubt they are as good as the 70's, what makes them hjave more recognition is the innovation, they made things that were unexpectable, modern bands just keep doing what old ones were doing, but improving the quality.
To sum up, i think The Flower Kings should have far more recognition than he has actually.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 08 2006 at 21:47
Wait a tick Zitro!!! David Lebon was Seru´s guitarist...that machine that is Pedro Azanar was the bassplayer!!! I think I dont like The Flowers that much cause they are too happy for me... A by the way the other day I met the guy that did the cover from Paradox Hotel...cool guy, has the best record store Ive ever seen...all prog!!! hehehe ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: eddietrooper
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 05:54
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Genesis with Gabriel can't be beaten by any post 70's band IMO. That said, I must say that I like TFK and they have the merit of releasing more hours of music in ten years than many classic bands in all their careers. But probably if they had condensed their best ideas in three or four releases, their albums would be masterpieces and they would be very close to Genesis. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 07:17
Exactly what I think, good band, but not comparable with the masters.
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Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:28
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I don't know if they're better than Genesis or Yes or Pink Floyd, these bands are all outstanding. So it's all a matter of taste in the end, i sure like the Flower Kings more than Yes and Genesis, they're more or less equal to Floyd for me. I don't think much of the originality argument. I know that Yes was there before TFK and that TFK is influenced by Yes. My ears don't care about these things though, they just want hear good music and TFK delivers . |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:31
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I haven't read the rest of the posts here, but no. Just no. I like the Flower Kings, but as good as Genesis? Well, OK, better than the album, "Genesis". ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:47
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Nay, nay and thrice nay!
Which isn't to say that there's anything wrong with TFK, but if my house was burning down I'd rescue my Gabriel era Genesis albums well before anything by TFK (but after Magma and King Crimson, obviously). ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 12:01
Maybe better than 80's Genesis. 
-- Ivan
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Posted By: Flip_Stone
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 13:00
THAT'S A GOOD ONE!!!! WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO BE FUNNY TODAY, RIGHT?
Nope, The Flower Kings aren't as good as Genesis. They are billions of miles away from the level of originality or creativity of Genesis. The Flower Kings reuse and regurgitate material from the past, add some flashiness to it, over-emphasize the singing for lame "dramatic effect", and then extend the songs to 10 or 20 times the length of time they should in order to fill up as many CD's as possible at a time. If you really look at the music, I mean realistically and not buy into the hype, it's a joke.
The Flower Kings should be arrested for progressive posing, progressive sharades, and for recording excesses.
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Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:11
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Maybe I will give you an answer in 20 years... It is not the first time in this forums that I read opinions like this one (very respectable of course) but IMO still is too soon for appreciations like this one. Time and new generations are the best -and sometimes pitiless- judges... Anyway TFK is a great band but is not one of my top 10... ------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R... |
Posted By: GPFR
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:13
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It's all down too opinion, I prefere Genesis.
------------- www.myspace.com/hail_peter 
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:27
Not true at all. Once again, people glorifying prog guitarists just because they play prog. 99% of prog guitarists couldn't come near Hendrix's playing. It wasn't about technicality, it was about the emotion of the song and the style of playing. Petrucci could come in and play 5000 notes to Hendrix's one, but no one would be affected by it. Too many notes don't mean you are a better guitarist. Once again, you can teach scales, but you can't teach how to play with emotional feel. The feel that Hendrix had. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:30
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Yeah, music isn't boxing, you don't put two musicians close to each other and wait who "outpowers" who.
And the best musician is the best songwriter.
-- Ivan
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:53
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I think that if TFK would had made Unfold The Future in 1972 everybody would agree that it was a masterpiece. My point is that TFK's music quality is as good a Genesis or Yes, maybe they can't reach the level of emotionality that this two bands have, but if we analize only the music , i would say thy're on the same level, and even that TFK is better in some passages.
But I love Genesis and Yes too, and i think they deserve more credit because of the originallity, but also i think that TFK are terribly underrated, they are some of the best musicians of this era and they are full of ideas.
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:58
Haha, this seems like the most common excuse I hear from a TFK fan explaining why the majority doesn't believe that TFK is the greatest thing since sliced pancakes.
In response to this excuse: no, if they were active during 1972, they simply wouldn't have the fundamental genius groups to rip off and would end up... with an album that sounded like 50's rock? smooth jazz? If they were the same people, they'd come up with something unoriginal, derivative and uninspired. It DOES matter that their music is being made 30 years late than it was supposed to.
-- Ivan
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 15:09
Ok, I love TFK, but i'm not a fan, in fact i'm not a fan of any group.
I agree with you that they wouldn't have enough influences to make an album like this, but i mean, what if a band (call it X) made exactly unfold the future in 1972, wouldn't you say that it is a masterpiece?, and i'm not talking about the originallity, i'm talking about purely in musical terms, the arrengment are so good, they're incredible (IMHO). I'm not saying that TFK is as good as the bands from 70's, i'm saying that they are at least as enjoyable as them for me.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 15:16
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No, but they're the the best (as far as my memory serves me as of now) Modern Symphonic band in existence. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 15:19
| With modern you mean "symphonic of the 90's" ?, if that's modern IMO Anglagärd is the best, but it's said to be retro prog. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 16:47
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the flower kings as good as genesis...... -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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.????..better than genesis..??? what's this.... another "sacred cow" getting poked at with a sharp stick?? well everyone is entitled to their opinion, maybe they are as good as genesis, but remember without genesis the flower kings would not exist! (without a model 'T' Ford a Ferrari would not exist in theory!! ). Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 17:38
| You're right saying that without genesis TFK would never have existed. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 17:54
I don't think so. Stolt was already around in the 70s with Kaipa. Of course they were also influenced by Genesis and Yes, but I'm sure they would also have made very interesting music without this influence. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 17:58
Maybe, but not the same music they're producing right now, i think without those influences they would have gone another way.
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 18:34
The Fact is, without Genesis, TFK and much more bands have never existed...
Anyway, i like TFK so much, i think they are a "creative" (despite the have been influenced) a skillful and on of the best bands nowadays...
------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 09 2006 at 19:36
TFK is much more prolific, which counts for something.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 10 2006 at 15:42
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They have grown on me a lot lately, but to suggest that they are 'as good as Genesis' is just wrong, imo. They are as many have said, sometimes rather aimless and ambling. Few prog acts I know of have ever recorded as many double CDs and it's a frightening thought that if they were issued on vinyl, they'd be quadruple albums!! You don't need to have heard their music to get the impression that there's gonna be some plentiful filler there. Also, their music isn't even like Genesis' in the first place. Genesis were extremely innovative and knew the importance of good, concise songwriting. The Flower Kings' whole career can be tied down to two prog albums, imo- 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' by Yes(which I love) and 'Focus III' (half of which I love, half I don't) by Focus. Both are somewhat unwieldly at times yet the sound of The Flower Kings relies heavily on these bands, imo.
With tighter editing, you could find some superb songs on their albums and they'd probably be one of the great modern symphonic acts. As they stand, they are still an at times excellent act, but are frustratingly over-prolific.
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Posted By: jojim
Date Posted: May 10 2006 at 16:52
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Are you crazy? - TFK are a second hand plagiat band with gifted musicians and a good sound engineer. That's all!! Their compositions have no substance. You can take off a part of a song. Nothing gets better or worse. This is the proof of nonsense. Real music is stuck on a rigid timline. GENESIS are the masters of construction songs as a whole. The most ridiculous with the TFK is the singer. He tries desperately to sound like John Wetton. He has no bad voice at all. But it is copy. Would you buy tami if you can get gold? The music of TFK is appropriate to be played in big supermarkets. Even the grandmas would accept it. If you play GENESIS or YES albums in a mall people would kill you or the mall runs down. To compare the music of GENESIS (YES, GENTLE GIANT etc.) with that of TFK is like comparing US-Today with THE TIMES. There is no link, no similarity. TFK try hard to express themselves with means of the past. That is ok. No doubt. But it has nothing to do with the niveau of the groups of the seventies. In "Retropolis" Track 4, at 9:00 min, they sound like YES and John Wetton together. Absolutely ridiculous. Really. If someone likes this music. Wonderful. But do not compare it to GENESIS or the rest of the scenery of the 70-ies. My statement does not mean they are bad. Sincerly. Hope I'm not too harsh with this thread. ------------- YES - Close to the edge / UK - UK / GENESIS - The lamb lies down / KING CRIMSON - Discipline / MIKE OLDFIELD - Tubular bells / JETHRO TULL - Aqualung / GENTLE GIANT - Three friends / TMO - IMF |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: May 10 2006 at 16:57
This I know. However, I do believe Petrucci's work (at any speed) is emotionally charged. I feel a lot from his playing. Since this is a Flower Kings thread, I will also just point out that Roine's playing isn't a bunch of shredding, but man does he put his all into every note. I get so much from his playing. I do have a heap of respect for Hendrix, and I know exactly what you're saying. I personally never got much out of his stuff though. I'm not glorifying anybody just because they play prog; I said especially in prog because prog musicians generally have a greater theory knowledge, technical ability and melody orientation (coming from all kinds of sounds and styles). Obviously the value of the guitar work from an emotional aspect is a matter of opinion. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Tomodachi
Date Posted: May 10 2006 at 18:51
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Genesis has the historical importance and the fascination that TFK can't have, so I consider Genesis a much more important prog band than TFK, but nevertheless I enjoy listening to TFK as much as Genesis. Of course this is my personal feeling, but I want to point out that my appreciation of TFK has grown after many many listens: I liked them very little at first listen. I really can't understand nor tolerate all this ostility towards this band: the accusation of unoriginality and plagiarism is a commonplace IMO. You TFK haters should try a more attentive and not prejudicial listen. Then, if you will remain in the same opinion I will respect it, but at the moment I consider your prejudicial bashing as an offence to people who find TFK music interesting and enjoyable. ------------- 
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Posted By: Angeldust
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 03:28
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Ok i feel so bad for saying this but Flower kings music is sooooo retro.Don't get me wrong but i think it's wrong comparing them with Genesis.When Genesis started their music was so groundbreaking and true progressive.But nowadays with the flower kings what you get is a modern copy of the Yes/70s prog rock.It's ok to like them but there're better things in prog today.(radiohead , the mars volta , tool , even KING CRIMSON for christ's sake evolve with each album ) ------------- 
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Posted By: Tomodachi
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 06:40
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Ok I see your point and I respect it, but I still love TFK and even think they are often innovative I agree with you on the fact that they cannot be compared with Genesis. -------------
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Posted By: Mr. Sanchez
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 08:59
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It's all about personal preference... Those who like Flower Kings over Genesis and vice versa so be it. Personally i think that Genesis are better because they are Original. ------------- It's Calling Me Back To My Home. |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 11:10
| No one question the originallity argument, and the point here is discuss if TFK is as enjoyable as genesis, what you think about it?. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 11:15
I clearly enjoy listening to TFK more than listening to Genesis. Doesn't mean that I think that they're the better band, not at all. You cannot compare them anyway, because TFK build up on Genesis. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 11:23
| I totally agree, i consider Genesis a better band, but a i enjoy more TFK, it's more dinamical and unpredictable, not as emotional, but i think what majes them enjoy that much is their jazzy style, in this topic drumming and bass are quite exquisit. I mean , maybe the quality of TFK's music is better in terms of sofistication and complexity ( and i think that's the reason why i enjoy them more than Genesis), but Genesis is better due to the originallity and being pioneers in their style, also they were able to show you a wide variety of emotions that TFK aren't able. |
Posted By: Maverick
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 13:57
Interesting topic, really!  Hey, how can we compare Genesis (formers of art-rock, unique band) and Flower Kings (keepers of prog traditions, prog-masters and Champions Of Prog nowadays)? They are different bands, although Flower Kings has a lot of Genesis-like melodies and structures. I love both Flower Kings and Genesis, they're my favourite bands. And of course, Flower Kings has created as wonderful music as Genesis. These two bands are winners, no doubt. ------------- In PROG We Trust |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 17:12
| That comparison is unfounded. To compare Genesis with Camel or Gentle Giant seems to be more realistic. TFK and Genesis are in two distinct league. genesis is in the company of camel, rennaisance, barclay james harvest, VDGG, Yes, ELp, ect..as opposed to TFK who are in the company of Porcupine Tree, Anglgard, Spocks Beard, Wobbler, i suppose, The Tangent among others. |
Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: May 11 2006 at 17:33
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I have to agree with Zito! Yes were one of my favourite three groups in the seventies, equal to Floyd and just behind Genesis. I always rated them highly, especially in their peak period, from Fragile to Going For The One. Technically excellent and the masters of 'the epic'. However, FK are as good, if not better. They are certainly more consistent. No bad albums, no really bad tracks (consider some of the dross Yes has produced since GFTO) I personally love Tomas Bodin's style, he has all the technical wizardry, yet knows when to stay in background and add the odd subtle touch as required. Reingold is as good as Squire ( my favourite bass player), Stolt is as good as Howe, more diverse in fact, and definitely a better singer and solo artist! All three of their drummers can, match White, and even Bruford. So yes, they are better than Yes, (all Yes fans will be shaking their heads now and saying 'how can you say that, Yes are the masters', but we all have our opinions, and remember, I am a Yes fan too!) As for better than Genesis, well, that is harder to say, they are so different. Genesis are probably still my favourite band. FK don't have their lyricism, or olde worlde Englishness, of course, but they are not far behind, for me. Interesting here, if I was put on the spot and asked to name my top five prog bands of all time, my first choice would be Genesis, but after that it is a toss up between Flower Kings, Yes, Porcupine Tree and Pink Floyd, in any order depending on the day. I just prefer to enjoy the music of all of them, and not worry too much which I like the best. Depends what music I am in the mood for too!
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