Sometimes I fail to understand Band Admission Team logic.

If you consider ELO to be prog-related so

(I know it has been discussed lots of times but still!!)

WHERE IS ZEPPELIN???????

Many many people agree with this...

^^ Yes, I agree with that statement (Snowie)!!

Zepellin could appear in the archives (only time would tell!!), if you feel a band should be  added then use the band submissions procedure (ps Make sure the band is PROG or PROG Related)!!!

ELO used a lot of Prog Elements in their music.

OK, guys.. take it easy ;-)))

I simply think that if Deep Purple and Queen are here being classical rock bands Zeps also should be in PA - with no doubt they are not less prog-related as two above.

BTW, have you heard of a bulgarian band called FSB (Formazia Studio Balkanton)? They have been making great prog stuff in late 70's including some GG covers.

For all the disbelievers:

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10477"> ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer)
Review ( http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=70719 - Permanent link ) by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20 - Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006
SPECIAL COLLABORATION
  —   4,5 stars really!!!!

With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s.

Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album.

The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation.

Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one.

Sean Trane wrote: For all the disbelievers: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10477"> ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer) Review ( http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=70719 - Permanent link ) by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20 - Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATION   —   4,5 stars really!!!! With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s. Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album. The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation. Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one.

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. This LP is some of the best, most innovative, most eye-openingly varied and creative prog rock music period. ELO's early LPs can stand with the best art rock (or whatever subgenre of prog you wish to use) ever composed. ELO is not prog related. Their music is progressive rock, regardless of how commercial their later music became.

Eventually, all artists will be added, I'm sure....

 Just kidding -- or am I?

Peter wrote: Eventually, all artists will be added, I'm sure....    Just kidding -- or am I?

Yes, that does seem to be the trend, but nonetheless, ELO belongs in PA, and not just as "prog related."

I'll get this thread out of this forum, simply misplaced

But as far as ELO's prog contents, I would say that:

their first album is 100%,

their Second is 70%, ,

Third Day is 70%,

Eldorado is 70%,

Face The Music is 40%

New World Record and Out Of The Blue are 20% but by this time they had been taken over by the disco craze, but this disco thing influences on their work will not occur until after OOTB

bluetailfly wrote: Sean Trane wrote: For all the disbelievers: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10477"> ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* - Electric Light Orchestra (No Answer) Review ( http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=70719 - Permanent link ) by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20 - Hugues Chantraine @ 2:43:44 AM EST, 2/28/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATION   —   4,5 stars really!!!! With its ridiculous title coming from a complete cross-Atlantic misunderstanding (the album got named after the “no answer” response to the US label wondering on the album title), ELO’s first album is one of the hardest album to get into due to the poor sound and muddy production, but it is much worth the patience as the music is definitely prog with its heavy classical music instrumentation ala Eleanor Rigby (just listen to Look At Me Now to get a peak into the album’s key), but unfortunately too often disregarded due to their later almost disco-like career of the late 70’s. Many of the band’s harder edged sounds are coming from Roy Wood’s mad musical ideas (Wood was the man behind The Move – one of the craziest psych groups around the late 60’s) while Jeff Lynne (who came from Idle Race) was more Beatles- inspired. One of the most endearing musical characteristics of ELO’s first two albums are the Renaissance influences, much the same way Gryphon was also greatly under the spell of. Just listen to Battle Of Marston Moor or their surprise hit 10538 Overture, just to get an idea. Marston is an astounding piece of music every proghead must listen, while First Movement is reminiscent of Focus’s Sylvia or House Of The King. Mr Radio is the typically Beatles-influenced Lynne track but again with a much proggier twist. Manhattan Rumble starts off as a sombre war march and is another superb and instrumental track while Queen Of The Hours is yet another highlight with again Roy wood doing the bundle of the instrument playing (he handles almost all the classical instrument bar the odd horn and the violin. The album closes on a minor composition, but cannot stop the open-minded progheads to think that this might just be an essential album. The songwriting is almost divided in half (Lynne 5 to Wood’s 4) but clearly on the arrangement’s side, Wood was the man behind the album and Lynne’s poppier tracks are heavily infested by Wood’s instrumentation. Weirdly enough, Wood who had worked so hard and against all odds to form this group will leave the group after this debut album, to found his RW’s Wizzard (a rockier Renaissance music group), leaving Lynne take care of the band and ELO will have a long and varied career with many highlights, but also some disgustingly commercial success. To all progheads dismissing ELO, they’d better listen to this album to swallow back their words in complete shame. Much worth its fourth star and even another half one. Yes, I absolutely agree with this. This LP is some of the best, most innovative, most eye-openingly varied and creative prog rock music period. ELO's early LPs can stand with the best art rock (or whatever subgenre of prog you wish to use) ever composed. ELO is not prog related. Their music is progressive rock, regardless of how commercial their later music became.

HOWEVER:

WARNING: even remastered, this debut and its follow-up need an excellent stereo system!! Avoid the car stereo or the computer or even a ghetto blaster or a midi stereo. It needs the real stuff to unfold its brute beauty.

Come on guys ,

Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean Trane wrote: Come on guys , Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You want an argument? I'll argue with you...

I think "El Dorado" is 100% prog rock ("art rock" to be specific), not 70%.

There! Take that!  

micky wrote: bluetailfly wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Come on guys , Argue with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   You want an argument? I'll argue with you... I think "El Dorado" is 100% prog rock ("art rock" to be specific), not 70%. There! Take that!   hahahah... me too.. I'd like to hear the 30% of ELO 2 that isn't prog.. granted it may not be the best prog ever done.  Lord knows I agree about the horrid quality of the recording... especially Lynne's vocals.  But that was a 100% prog album.

Great Two Arguments

I will re-listen to Eldorado this week for ithas been over 20 years I heard it last, I rented it from the library and I might just review that percentage>>> not saying in which direction , though

As for ELO 2 , just because they added the Fifth's intro to a Chuck Berry RnR number does not make it prog

But the album is still good, just much simpler than the debut, and they have a hard time digesting Wood's departure

Thanks for the responses

ELDORADO sounds like a poor-man's 70's Sgt Pepper to me.I've just listened to it on Napster.

Of course that does not preclude it from being on Prog Archives,but at times it does seem far removed from what one would normally imagine Prog Rock to me.

However,they haven't been added as a Prog Rock band and we should remember that when judging their inclusion.

Now I can get "I Cant Get It Out Of My Head" out my head....

I certainly would not rate ELO as the most controversial inclusion in the Archives and for me if groups like Queen, Roxy, Muse are added, there was no reasons why this group should not!!Soon or later I gather 10CC will be in also

These guys were prog (albeit a little light) until their New World Record /Out Of The Blue phase

and Eldorado is prog even if a little kitsch and borrowed. Jeff Lynne was always famous for his Beatles-influenced songwriting, so if Eldorado does sound like Ggt Pepper, this is no great surprise

____________________________________________________________ ________

As for the Roll Over Beethoven with the added intro and outro, this does not make it prog since the body of the song is almost unchanged

ELO always a very rnR twist to them!!!! Check Ma ma ma Belle out, to get a load of it.

Nevertheless I intend to review them until Face The Music

DallasBryan wrote: Guess what, Journey's first two albums were Progressive Rock too! That will blow most peoples concept, but its true! Give them a listen, you'll be surprized. Basically Santana's band that made Caravanserai, Welcome and Santana 3, with less latino groove and NO STEVE PERRY!

Journey: 

You might even add their third album, Next to be proggish , but no quite like their first two, and then Perry happened, Ainsley Dunbar left, and things changed dramaticaly

Santana's 70's output (including his solo albums) until 79's Oneness included is awesome and definitely much worth the inclusion. However, we are in both case stuck because the owners want the full discographies in the database

Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

Gotta love Justice League......

 OK, I remembered well this album given the twenty years lapse between two hearings

It did not really change my mind; if previous albums were prog rock, this one is fully symphonic and conceptual, but it is PROGRESSIVE POP. Still good though

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10511"> Prog Related
(Studio Album, 1974)
Avg: 4.21/5
from 14 ratings

   So far, I have rated ELO a little over their own real value (giving them a half-star over what I believe they really deserve – except for the debut album), but with this album, usually regarded by a lot of progheads as their masterpiece: I feel I have to set the record straight! If most progheads look down unnecessarily on previous album, they generally tend to regard this one a bit too highly. Yes, it is fully symphonic and conceptual (and therefore progressive in its own right), but it is POP rather than ROCK (something previous album were not) and just for that ELO loses a bit of credential to this reviewer’s eyes.

But please do not let me be a party pooper as the songwriting on this album is still phenomenal - even though only written by Lynne himself, it must’ve been arranged by the whole group. With this album, Lynne actually veers away (finally some might say) from his Fab Four infatuation, but I feel this might be exactly where the weakness in this album lies. Although still plainly an ELO album and in itself a small tour de force, songwriting-wise it does not really resemble any other album of theirs. I think that my main gripe about this album is that the strings and full orchestras are over-used a tad (ton?) too much for my tastes. But some of the evident melodies of previous albums are lacking and even the hit Can’t Get It INTO My Head is not catchy for me.

Funnily enough, it is the album that most everyone is ready to laud to the skies, and I personally cannot help feeling that ELO just missed the holy grail by a few hairs had they been a bit less pretentious with this one. But nevertheless, this album should be the proof to dubitative progheads, that ELO has its own full place in the Archives.

Just a general note (I put it in another thread too), but could members refrain from posting copies of their own reviews in the forum too. If people wish to read the review, they will do so in the reviews part of the site.

If you wish to seek occasional feedback on a specific review, post a link to it.

Sean Trane wrote:  OK, I remembered well this album given the twenty years lapse between two hearings It did not really change my mind; if previous albums were prog rock, this one is fully symphonic and conceptual, but it is PROGRESSIVE POP. Still good though     http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10511"> Prog Related (Studio Album, 1974) Avg: 4.21/5 from 14 ratings http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=10511 - ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* "Eldorado: A Symphony" Review ( http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=71299 - Permanent link ) by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20 - Hugues Chantraine Posted 3:17:51 AM EST, 3/7/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATOR (Honorary Collaborator)    So far, I have rated ELO a little over their own real value (giving them a half-star over what I believe they really deserve – except for the debut album), but with this album, usually regarded by a lot of progheads as their masterpiece: I feel I have to set the record straight! If most progheads look down unnecessarily on previous album, they generally tend to regard this one a bit too highly. Yes, it is fully symphonic and conceptual (and therefore progressive in its own right), but it is POP rather than ROCK (something previous album were not) and just for that ELO loses a bit of credential to this reviewer’s eyes. But please do not let me be a party pooper as the songwriting on this album is still phenomenal - even though only written by Lynne himself, it must’ve been arranged by the whole group. With this album, Lynne actually veers away (finally some might say) from his Fab Four infatuation, but I feel this might be exactly where the weakness in this album lies. Although still plainly an ELO album and in itself a small tour de force, songwriting-wise it does not really resemble any other album of theirs. I think that my main gripe about this album is that the strings and full orchestras are over-used a tad (ton?) too much for my tastes. But some of the evident melodies of previous albums are lacking and even the hit Can’t Get It INTO My Head is not catchy for me. Funnily enough, it is the album that most everyone is ready to laud to the skies, and I personally cannot help feeling that ELO just missed the holy grail by a few hairs had they been a bit less pretentious with this one. But nevertheless, this album should be the proof to dubitative progheads, that ELO has its own full place in the Archives.

First, I want to thank you for supporting ELO's early works as prog/art rock and reviewing the early LPs, which I consider quality prog music that still stands up today.

And in this case, I support the posting of the review, since it allows us to read and respond without having to hyperlink out and back again. And while I don't agree on all points, I understand where your coming from.

BUT (you knew it was coming), what I don't see discussed at all is the concept of the LP itself. That is one of the crucial factors that makes it the art that it is. You do mention that it is a concept album, but don't go on to elaborate. It's like reviewing Sgt. Pepper without ever discussing the "band within a band" concept and how that gives context to the music.

But as I said, thanks for reviewing it. I'm going to get around to it myself soon.

bluetailfly wrote: First, I want to thank you for supporting ELO's early works as prog/art rock and reviewing the early LPs, which I consider quality prog music that still stands up today. And in this case, I support the posting of the review, since it allows us to read and respond without having to hyperlink out and back again. And while I don't agree on all points, I understand where your coming from. BUT (you knew it was coming), what I don't see discussed at all is the concept of the LP itself. That is one of the crucial factors that makes it the art that it is. You do mention that it is a concept album, but don't go on to elaborate. It's like reviewing Sgt. Pepper without ever discussing the "band within a band" concept and how that gives context to the music. But as I said, thanks for reviewing it. I'm going to get around to it myself soon.

I'll be looking forward to it

Rightly so, I forget the concept just as I did also about On The Third Day, but I did not understand the one in that album.

I did not talk of the Eldorado concept because my outlook is to defend the "progressiveness" of ELO, because they are all too often under attack. The fact that it is a concept(and I mention it), gives one more argument towards ELO's progressiveness

At first I supported their inclusion, but when I saw how many people were against it, I thought about dropping the idea

Then a collab did introduce them and there was a flurry of threads howling at treason etc..

I thought the best way to defend ELO's cause would be to review them and I revived this thread (but I found none that were positive so I choose this one - look at the first posts as this was the better one)

Another solution was to create a new thread, but this would've taken away the spite of my reviews.

DallasBryan wrote: This is a silly discusssion, ELO was one of the founders of progressive rock in England. Period! And very good at it also! Its like arguing that Greenland is ice and Iceland is green. Originally they defined what was latter to be known as progressive rock, slightly on the pop side and psychedelic side originally, they were two steps from melodic west coast psychedelia and one step from the Beatles psychedelic stage and a flying leap away from Canterbury's mental handicaps!

A bit off topic, but my understanding is that Greenland is mostly ice, and that in fact if you could somehow remove all the ice that sits on top of Greenland's land, it would rise out of the ocean; that is, the ice is weighing it down.

And that is further reason to argue that ELO is a great prog band. Because if the ice didn't weigh Greenland down in the '60s, a sunami could have be generated, thereby wiping out the town of Surrey, which, as we know, was a hotbed of prog ideas and where Lynne incubated many of his prog concepts.

Thank you.

You know , I was listened to the Classic Rock radio of Belgium and they were playing three tracks of ELO coming from Out Of The Blue and New World Record

Quite a bit more commercial (but ELO was always so) , but even those two albums have their own great merits. Some of those tracks are superbly arranged with that string sectionn Hugh Mc Dowell is the one that did most of the arrangements.>>> Still prog in a way

Sean Trane wrote: I was thinkling of getting ELO moved from proto-prog to Art Rock

You really should. I say that with all seriousness. (stern-faced emoticon here).

bluetailfly wrote: Sean Trane wrote: I was thinkling of getting ELO moved from proto-prog to Art Rock You really should. I say that with all seriousness. (stern-faced emoticon here).

you mean this one?

Check in the more... selection beside

They are in Prog Related, where they belong IMO.

What should change is this:

Why this artist must be listed in www.progarchives.com : This band was one of the very first to incorporate symphonic elements like the strings (violins, cellos) into the main workings of their songs.

That's not enough reasons a lot of Disco Bands incorporated violins and Cellos (Starting with Donna Summer) orc even mediocre Muzak orchestras as James Last and they were not Prog. Instruments don't make a genre, the genre is made by the musicians, you can play Prog without keyboards and play Disco/POP with violins.

This is my main opposition to ELO, IMO they were a rock/Disco band that used violins and cellos.

Talk about structures, influences, styles, musicianship, etc, not about the instruments they used.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: They are in Prog Related, where they belong IMO. What should change is this: Why this artist must be listed in www.progarchives.com : This band was one of the very first to incorporate symphonic elements like the strings (violins, cellos) into the main workings of their songs. That's not enough reasons a lot of Disco Bands incorporated violins and Cellos (Starting with Donna Summer) orc even mediocre Muzak orchestras as James Last and they were not Prog. Instruments don't make a genre, the genre is made by the musicians, you can play Prog without keyboards and play Disco/POP with violins. This is my main opposition to ELO, IMO they were a rock/Disco band that used violins and cellos. Talk about structures, influences, styles, musicianship, etc, not about the instruments they used. Iván

You know this disco-calling thing is getting on my nerves!!!! People calling danceable rock/pop of the late-70's disco is just as dumb and inaccurate as saying punk killed prog....  

If you listen to the first three albums, it is way more than just a rock band with a string section. They use those instruments as an integral part of their sound and songs>>> I see a lot of medieval or pre renaissance music in their debut which is really close to Gryphon >>> full blown prog if you ask me

I never really thought of ELO as a disco band, even with Out Of The Blue >> but I must admit that past Discovery , I do not know their stuff, though

Their songs got played in disco, because they were commercial and danceable, but theu were still rock/pop. Disco music is a two-beat, which makes that even the stupidest and clumsiest dancers could manage to go along with the beat and this is why it became so popular>>> Calling ELO in the 70's disco is rather off-beat and unjustified

Some people accused the Rolling Stones of turning disco because of Miss You, but if you listen to the album Some Girls from which it came from, this is a full blown ROCK record (and the last good one they made - apart of 86's Dirty Work)

DISCO was created solely as dance music (Donna Summer etc.... ) or funk music (EW&F or Jackson 5)  but not Stones or ELO. And no-one in his right mind would qualify ELO as just dance music. As a matter of fact their music was danceable and this allowed me to have the odd blast while attending the rare disco-nights I went to, to actually dance with the girls to the Stones's Miss You  or even Seger's Old Time RnR (also played very often in disco back then) or ELO.

Then I would have a good excuse to fondle women in the insidious slows, since I did dance with them before. Bob Seger's Turn The Page was a superb slow often played

You know this disco-calling thing is getting on my nerves!!!! People calling danceable rock/pop of the late-70's disco is just as dumb and inaccurate as saying punk killed prog....   If you listen to the first three albums, it is way more than just a rock band with a string section. They use those instruments as an integral part of their sound and songs>>> I see a lot of medieval or pre renaissance music in their debut which is really close to Gryphon >>> full blown prog if you ask me I never really thought of ELO as a disco band, even with Out Of The Blue >> but I must admit that past Discovery , I do not know their stuff, though Their songs got played in disco, because they were commercial and danceable, but theu were still rock/pop. Disco music is a two-beat, which makes that even the stupidest and clumsiest dancers could manage to go along with the beat and this is why it became so popular>>> Calling ELO in the 70's disco is rather off-beat and unjustified   Some people accused the Rolling Stones of turning disco because of Miss You, but if you listen to the album Some Girls from which it came from, this is a full blown ROCK record (and the last good one they made - apart of 86's Dirty Work) DISCO was created solely as dance music (Donna Summer etc.... ) or funk music (EW&F or Jackson 5)  but not Stones or ELO. And no-one in his right mind would qualify ELO as just dance music. As a matter of fact their music was danceable and this allowed me to have the odd blast while attending the rare disco-nights I went to, to actually dance with the girls to the Stones's Miss You  or even Seger's Old Time RnR (also played very often in disco back then) or ELO. Then I would have a good excuse to fondle women in the insidious slows, since I did dance with them before. Bob Seger's Turn The Page was a superb slow often played

Sean, why is truth so hard to swallow for you in this case?

In first place I'm not talking about theirv first albums, those are aout of this context even if you want upo to Out of the Blues (Which was already very poppy to say the less), lets forget about all those albums, so you don't have to explain their merits because i know them.

I clearles state that ELO was a Rock/Disco band as I would also state that my favorite band Genesis was a Progressive Rock/POP band.

Genesis was Prog until W&W (IMO), and according to others until Duke, but then Genesis turned into a POP band and boring POP.

ELO was a Rock band (Still don't buy they were PROG even when they were related) but Discovery and XANADU are 100% DISCO ALBUMS.

Not even ELO takes time to deny it during this two albums:

Discovery:  Just in case you didn't noticed Discovery is a play of two words.Disco and Very in other words they were announcing it was a Very Disco album, they changed their excellent chorus (Almost as good as the ones Queen did and at least in the level of the best STYX ones)  for Bee Geeesque acute shouts, their beat is clearly Disco and repetitive, created exclusively to be played at Studio 54 or any Discotheque that was in fashion on those days for the Hemingway sisters to dance.

 Even the looks of the members changed (If you have the Out of The Bluse Live and Discovery DVD you will notice that the difference between the two eras, on the later one the guys are dressing as any Travolta in SaturdayNight Fever except Jeff who's peculiar hair style changed for a typicall African Look. It started as a joke but it was profitable, so they insisted.

XANADU: This is noyt only Disco, but the peak of the cheesiest musical genre (again IMO), this album was released  as the soundtrack of a DISCO movie, with the Disco star of the moment (Olivia Newton John), but not only to be played at the discothecs, it was designed for the Roller Boogie mania, there was not a roller skating dance disco (People used to dance Disco music with recently invented Poliurethane wheels skates), I hated Disco, but I was a pretty good skater and the only way to know chciks (Sorry ladies for the  disrespectful term, but it is the oone I had in mine when I was a teenager) was to go to the skate places. Of course I stayed most of the time drinking something or skating when there was no music.

It's clearly and 100% Disco, there's no douibt about this, they even share credits with Olivia Newton John. Instead of making great concerts they started playing very often in a Saturday Disco TV shows in all the world with bands as ABBA or stars as Eruption (One Way Ticket to the Moon) ane EW&F.

You admit you didn't followed their career since Discovery, so you can't give your opinion about what they turned into. I was a young teen on those years and was embarrased of listening ELO (One of my favorite rock bands) in this environment.

I don't say they were Disco during all their career, no they weren't, but hey turned into a Disco band or maybe just used Disco music as a vehicle to recieve fresh bucks making the kids shake their booties.

Now about The Rolling Stones, I don't think they were ever a Disco band, they became pretty poppy but not Disco. Maybe remotely close to Disco, to be preise less closer than they were  to Prog with Their Satanic Majesties Request.

So Sean, you're an intelligent guy, I love to discuss with you, so I don't expect you will close your eyes to reality, ELO IMO was mostly a Rock band, you may argue they were Prog I believe they were related only (This can be discussed) but the fact that Discovery and Xanadu are 100% Disco albums ois a fact.

So saying they became Disco during a stage of their career is absolutely fair and precise.

Iván

No Micky is not a diatribe, when I refer to ELO today as I will do in 100 years  I will call them a Rock/Disco band, because trhey embraced both genres.

I was just answering Sean's post who said ELO was never a Disco band, which is bnot accurate, I also say (If you read my post carefully) that their career before this two infamous albums is out of the question.

If somebody asks me about Genesis I will say they were a Progressive Rock/POP band, as  a fact I said in my last post before you even mentioned it.

That's not offending them, unless the truth is offensive.

BTW: Just as I'm wriitting I'm watching the Out of the Blues/Discovery DVD, it's a pitty that the Out of the Blues show for Charity recording has such a terrible recording, it's also funny to see The Dukes of Gloucester talking with the band  plus a fat and absolutely not funny Tony Curtis introducing ELO and trying to steal the show during the ELO chat with the Dukes of Gloucester.

Hope they remaster this show, because it's very good.

Iván

BTW: If you feel nausea use Gravol

micky wrote: Sean Trane wrote: bluetailfly wrote: First, I want to thank you for supporting ELO's early works as prog/art rock and reviewing the early LPs, which I consider quality prog music that still stands up today. And in this case, I support the posting of the review, since it allows us to read and respond without having to hyperlink out and back again. And while I don't agree on all points, I understand where your coming from. BUT (you knew it was coming), what I don't see discussed at all is the concept of the LP itself. That is one of the crucial factors that makes it the art that it is. You do mention that it is a concept album, but don't go on to elaborate. It's like reviewing Sgt. Pepper without ever discussing the "band within a band" concept and how that gives context to the music. But as I said, thanks for reviewing it. I'm going to get around to it myself soon. I'll be looking forward to it Rightly so, I forget the concept just as I did also about On The Third Day, but I did not understand the one in that album. I did not talk of the Eldorado concept because my outlook is to defend the "progressiveness" of ELO, because they are all too often under attack. The fact that it is a concept(and I mention it), gives one more argument towards ELO's progressiveness At first I supported their inclusion, but when I saw how many people were against it, I thought about dropping the idea Then a collab did introduce them and there was a flurry of threads howling at treason etc.. I thought the best way to defend ELO's cause would be to review them and I revived this thread (but I found none that were positive so I choose this one - look at the first posts as this was the better one) Another solution was to create a new thread, but this would've taken away the spite of my reviews. Kudos to you Sean...  and whovever that collab was that did introduce them... bravo.  I could imagine the stink that raised.    especially amoung several in particular hahahah  The sun still rises and sets at PA's and the prog planet has not spun wildly out of control into the depths of the musical void.  A sizeable number of people consider ELO prog, and the general group at large..  might now be exposed to something different to see what the fuss is about....to make up their own mind rather than call them a ....disco group hahahhah .    Isn't that really why we are all here.  To learn more about prog, to share our thoughts on it, and be exposed to other groups (and different forms)  of prog that we haven't heard before.

Thank you.

 ELO discography: since Yes also has a Disco-graphy, and we also heard jon and vangelis iwith the Mr.Cairo.......... jess kidddiiiinnnnn!!!!!!!!!.........

No Answer (Electric Light Orchestra) (1971)
ELO 2 (1973)
On The Third Day (1973)
Eldorado (1974)
The Night the Light Went On (In Long Beach) (1974)
Face The Music (1975)
OLE ELO (1976)
A New World Record (1976)
Out of the Blue (1977)
Discovery (1979)
Xanadu (1980)
Time (1981)
Secret Messages (1983)
Balance of Power (1986)
Zoom (2001)

Even if I am to take those two records Discovery and Xanadu (I forgot that awful stuff was from them as I associated the movie to Olivia Newton-john not to ELO) that makes two records disco, and the rest is not not.

Then again in sheer terms of records , Genesis is a pop band for it has an atrocious amount/percentage  of pop (or dance/pop) >>> they were frequently heard over the disco blasters in the 80's >>> but this does not stop them from being put in a full blown prog genre in our Archives

Why is the same thing not done to ELO? All I am suggesting is Art Rock (which is the entry/start level on our progscale), not any further (and I will not loose any sleep over it, either if it stays where it is)!!!!

How can we possibly say that Santana is not prog in view of his fabulous discography of the 70's simply because he did some commercial stuff in recent years!! well since the start of the 80's them too!!!!>>>> you know this is no coincidence Genesis, ELO, Santana all making crappy records from 79 onwards: Why does Genesis cause no problem when Santana is out and ELO just barely in???

On the whole: a group should be judged from its progressiveness in the time they broughtsomething to music, help develop it were highly influential to prog artiste etc...>> this means that the early stuff should have preponderance over the later stuff

Do you also want to talk of Chicago Transit Authority or do you consider them as trashy love songs because of If You leave Me Now? these guys put out over 8 good to excellent records (which is more than Genesis did) before also going commercial in 78. And Chicago is not in the Archives either

______________________________________

PS: I said that I never considered them disco, not that they never were one>>> read back if you do not believe it. The difference is that they had a long career with a few out of the point records, but so did many groups...

People seem to never forgive the Stones for Miss You (which is a damn good rock song) , that one bloody song over a 40 year career. and then stupidly most critics forget to look at the next album, Emotional Rescue and its solid funk (and semi-disco) songs>> let's stop the pigeonholing of artistes for one or two records which does not represent them ot the majority of their works.

I'd agree with the statement on the website as to why they're included in there; because they were one of (or the very) first band to incorporate violins and cellos into their songs. Yes, they did include concept albums (Eldorado, and to a lesser extent Time) and they did mess around with time signatures early on, but it gradually decreased, and therefore imo they should be included as prog-related for their first four albums (up until Eldorado). Could be argued that Eldorado and some of the songs on it are more art rocky than prog rocky (Boy Blue, Nobody's Child etc.) but I'm just being pedantic now.

BTW: Just as I'm writing I'm watching the Out of the Blues/Discovery DVD, it's a pitty that the Out of the Blues show for Charity recording has such a terrible recording, it's also funny to see The Dukes of Gloucester talking with the band  plus a fat and absolutely not funny Tony Curtis introducing ELO and trying to steal the show during the ELO chat with the Dukes of Gloucester

Yeah, I've got that on DVD too and sadly, that's the only footage I have of ELO live (which by all accounts is a rare occurrance in itself). Hope they remaster it too, the recording is poor, especially the camera work on Rockaria.