Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
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Topic: Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
Posted By: White Feather
Subject: Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 09:36
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OK I have tried and tried to understand Zappa , Just to get some kind of idea where he was coming from, but the thing is I have a hard time with his brand of humor ? I mean his musicality is fantastic !!!! But the humor I find to be in contrast with the high caliber chops he and his band display, this leaves me feeling an aversion towards most of the stuff he has recorded. Am I alone with these thoughts ? does humor belong in music or not ? because it doesn`t seem to work for me, at least not on repeated plays (only my humble opinion ) ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: Stiefel
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 09:46
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i fully agree with you; don't like humor in music at all!!
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:00
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Many people share your sentiments, and it unfortunately prevents them from enjoying Zappa's brilliance. I for one find his absurdist, Dada-esque humor to be yet another facet of his genius. Satire and absurdity can be a potent tool to get a point across. It's also fun to be silly!  For what it's worth, it took me years of steady listening to fully appreciate Zappa. I now believe he is one of the VERY few musicians of 20th century modern music that truly deserves the title "Musical Genius". |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:13
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I hate to quote Jimmy Buffet in a prog venue but "If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane..." Zappa was intent on keeping us all from taking ourselves too seriously and there's very few things more important. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:16
You just earned yourself 5 Prog Demerits.  Jimmy's right about that, however.  |
Chicapah wrote:Posted By: cmidkiff
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:19
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The humorous lyrics don't bother me as much as the non-musical approach of the vocals. ------------- cmidkiff |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:21
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I'm assuming you mean Frank's vocals? Surely you're not saying that Napoleon Murphy Brock, George Duke, Ike Willis, Adrain Belew, etc., can't sing? |
Posted By: Dr Know
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:23
I also had the same experience. Songs about giant poodle dogs just don´t do it for me
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Posted By: cmidkiff
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:28
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Yea, not all the vocals, just the ones that have more of a spoken non melodic sense. ------------- cmidkiff |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:40
| I think humour does definitely belong in music, even in prog. That's why I like Canterbury bands. Deep, intense lyrics are very good, but everyone needs to lighten up a bit from time to time. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:40
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Man, that bites and the poodle chews it. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:28
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The humour is great. Also, his spoken vocal lines on for example
"Nanook Rubs It" contain quite a lot of "feeling" behind it, he says it
with certain emphasises on certain words etc.
------------- http://www.soundclick.com/rosescar/ - My music! "THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Duncan
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:51
I kind of object to this. It's absolutely possible to be a Zappa fan without having ever to sit through a moment of toilet humour. Otherwise, you're welcome to take it or leave it! ... I can't deal with Joe's Garage, myself. |
Posted By: Rashikal
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:15
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I'm a very nonsensical, easygoing person, and I love the lyrics.
-------------  listen to Hella |
Posted By: Firepuck
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:21
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------------- Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks." |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:24
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I like Zappa because of the overly-impressive musical chops and the unconventional approach towards music he had. He had an impressive (to say the least) catalogue that features many masterpieces (Zappa in New York, The Grand Wazoo, etc.) to ones that come up short (You Are What You Is, Thing Fish). And as a guitarist, it doesn't get any better than a zany Zappa solo... not to mention Adrian Belew was in the band (and he's one of my absolute favorite musicians) during my favorite era of his career. ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 14:47
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I like Zappa, but he would be even better if he played the humour card a little less. Just my opinion. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: necromancing777
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 14:54
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YES! Humor belongs in everything, especially music. Just listen to 'Dirty Love' or "Broken Hearts Are For Assh*les". The man is a genious. "I'll ignore your cheap aroma
-------------  "Your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash, But it was mine in the first place, so I'll burn it to ash." |
Posted By: ken4musiq
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:00
Alot of music is satirical and people do not see it like that. Whan Emerson or Jon Lord quote a piece of Bach or Tchaikovsky it is often toungue in cheek. With Zappa you get a lot of toilet humor, which I really do not go in for, perhaps with the exception "Don't You Eat that Yellow Snow." I think that soe musicians could lern a little bit from humor, Fripp comes to mind. Is music better because it is more serious? |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:30
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I think Zappa liked to write lyrics just to shock people. His jokes sometimes missed the mark, particularly in the later years, when many of the references were too "in" for most non-band-members to get. But in a way, I think he was challenging the listener to see past the scatological lyrics and discover the amazing music behind them. This created the dual fan base that would show up at his concerts: The drunken post-adolescents who would scream out for the band to play "Dinah-Moe-Humm", and the musically astute, who would see the band for it's musical prowess. On the final tour (sob), Zappa played two shows in Boston. The first night, he played mostly the humor filled songs. The second night, he announced that the show was for the Berklee students in the audience, and the band played an amazing set (including my favorite, Echidna's Arf. And I like his song about the giant poodle. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:46
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Intelligent humour is great in lyrics and music. For me Zappa's crude
shock humour to make a point about freedom of expression is completly
wasted on me. And for that reason I could never take his music
seriously. The way I look at it is if he didn't respect his music
enough to play it with class and write lyrics which make you think
instead of cringing at its crudeness then I'm certainly not going to
waste my valuable time trying to enjoy what talent may be hidden. I'll
go and listen to someone who takes a little more pride in their work.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:49
So, I assume you boycott Mozart's work as well, for similar reasons?  |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:53
I must have missed his 'Concerto for full bladder orchestra on Why does it hurt when I pee'. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:59
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I bet you're happy you did! The string section passages in that partciular piece were very fluid... |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:10
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Yeah, I heard the orchestra were afraid they might blow it. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:28
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Another great thing about Zappa was that he took no pride in his work and wasn't pretensious at all about it. He just made whatever he felt like making and didn't care what other people thought about it. He took rick but had fun with it. -------------  
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:35
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Then I guess he wasn't writing it for you. Oh well, to each his own. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:38
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I'm not sure I get that first sentence. While I agree that he had no pretenses about what he did, I doubt that he wasn't proud of his work. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:59
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He respected his music enough to a) make it decades more advanced and progressive than 99% of PA and b) to spend countless hours learning to play it and making sure it's played by the best of the best. Any of the musicians he played with would die laughing hearing your claim. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:03
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Just not my cup of tea, bro. Do I redeem myself if I tell you I love Captain Beefheart? ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:07
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No.
I don't like Zappa that much either, but of all the people on PA he is probably the only one who was a true composer, in the Bach/Beethoven/Schonberg sense of the word. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:21
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Zappa was a very funny guy, but I wish he would have taken himself a little more seriously sometimes. Humor does belong in music, but it gets old after awhile. My friends who like Zappa don't even pay attention to his music, they just think it's funny that he sings about Titties and Beer. Certain groups do use humor in their music very well, though (Tull, Genesis). ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:29
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Yeah, he was prolific, but I think the quality of much of his work suffered for it. (probably why his song titles are often silly; he didn't regard it as quality, just recording a stream of musical consciousness). Maybe he felt he had to record every musical thought that came out of his head. Most great artists do use some form of internal quality control. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Zepology101
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:31
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Humor SO belongs in songs. you should be able to enjoy listening to music as much as they enjoy writing it. Zappas is hilarious! Going to montana... |
Posted By: Analog_Kid
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:33
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If humour weren't allowed in music there'd be no Focus!!! Hamburger Concerto is in my Top 10 at the mo - Harem Scarem has me laughing every time I play it! So many music jokes, and Van Leer's brilliant vocals! If prog took itself seriously all the time, it would get boring... well maybe... |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:42
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Jazz/Prog Zappa = Humor Zappa = Doo-Wop Zappa = ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:46
Oh c'mon there's only one real Zappa Doo-Wop album (and it isn't even bad Doo-Wop) is his entire catalogue of 70+ records. -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:48
Lumpy Gravy that is? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:50
Not for moi. There are a lot of little songs that are just crappy because of the doo-wop. A lot on URWhatUIZ ( Also: Jazz from Hell = ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: DrWizard
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 20:43
Music is an expression of emotion and why would a great musician like
Frank Zappa not write GREAT music just because its not sad or what
other people call "emotional". Humor belongs in music as much as any
other emotion and i consider frank zappa one of the greatest composers
ever you cant judge music like that..... |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 20:47
Nope, Cruising With Ruben & The Jets ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
Posted By: White Feather
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 21:22
I just wonder "if" the level of awareness Zappa seems to behold regarding his satirical evaluations was a little waisted , what I`m saying is the brand of humor Zappa displays is very interesting as well as being pretty funny , but the problem is things are only hilarious the first few times you hear them (Cheech and Chong for example) I believe in the interests of longevity in the sense of quality control Zappa would have been better using that "gift" of humor Zappa clearly had in a similar way that Peter Gabriel or Ian Anderson used theirs, perhaps try and incorporate into the flow of the music a little better and not "risk" some people thinking "what have we got here ... Cheech and Chongs, Earache my Eye ?" . Then again maybe I just don`t get it  ------------- |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 21:25
Yep. And that one is a decent record. Lumpy Gravy, on the other hand, is arguably his most avant-garde piece next to Civilization Phaze III. -------------
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 21:54
I totally concur. I have to skip "Luigi and the Wise Guys" on Man from Utopia everytime I listen to it. Something about that song actually makes me want to hit something |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 07:52
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What would he say for Baby snakes DVD? |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 09:42
Hey, how long do I have to bust these rocks out here before I've worked off my 5 demerits? Sheesh! ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 09:56
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Working off 5 Prog demerits takes approximately the length of 4 plays of Tales from Topographic Oceans. |
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 09:58
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I think that not only should humor be banned from music, but from all areas of life as well...especially from art, and definitely from this website. OK, people, no more jokes on this forum! Progressive music should only be appreciated by bespectacled, bearded intellectuals in turtle necks, who certainly have more important matters on their minds than "Titties 'n Beer". 
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Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:22
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Does that mean you're including the first half of The Ancient? That would be cruel and unusual punishment that goes beyond the boundaries of all that is decent! For God's sake, have mercy on my poor soul. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:32
Keep it up, and you'll force me to escalate to the extended Krautrock jams. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:37
UNCLE! ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Paul K.
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 04:45
well, Zappa himself shows that it does :) I like his humour, now and then it may be really weird but generally speaking I've always enjoyed his jokes. BTW, don't forget that he was banned in SNL for his strange sense of humour :) I wish I had seen that particular episode. Probably, the reason for people's dislikeness of humour in music here is that prog doesn't have humour AT ALL. It's very serious genre. As a matter of fact I also think that humour is inappropriate for prog, but Zappa is Zappa, he is genius and he could everything :) ------------- Weasels ripped my flesh |
Posted By: Ultaigh
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 04:49
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I believe that humor does believe in music...though, I don't really
care for or "get" Zappa's humor I still think he was a great musician. His humor and style is growing on me, though. ------------- 
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Posted By: fairyliar
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 04:55
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Zappa's DVD "Does Humor Belong In music" was the first thing I heard from him... and I immediately liked it a lot! I like the lyrics, it's too extreme to not be funny! And the music is great great great! Of course humor belongs in music, just see Queen in their early days, ELP...very salacious sometimes! |
Posted By: MorgothSunshine
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 05:14
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Yes humor belongs in music!!! I really love Bob Dylan imitation on "Flakes" ------------- For every truth even the contrary is true... 
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 06:20
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Humor?Why not? Just to mention "Paris is Burning" by PALLAS(oops...it wasn't fun just few days ago  ),"Harold the Burrel" by GENESIS and funny BEATLES and QUEEN songs
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 06:43
Much of Zappa's humour (especially the later albums/tours) will date and mean little to generations to come, because as far as Zappa's humour is concerned, he was first and foremost a satirist; the cultural/political/religious icons he savaged with such glee become 'old news' very quickly these days - how many people understand the references to Jesse Jackson in "Rhymin' Man" for example? Sometimes you just have to go along for the ride with Zappa's humour and enjoy the jokes/comments/Woody Woodpecker sound-effects (whilst not necessarily understanding them) - Yes, humour does belong in music, but that cannot detract from the huge body of "serious" work the man left us in the far too short 51 years he was with us. -------------  Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: fairyliar
Date Posted: March 27 2006 at 08:25
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Maybe his boyfriend should be thanking him For the way he makes it sprinke into drops of golden rain.... LMAO has anybody here listened to something funnier than "He's so gay"???? And watch it live!!!! It's just fascinating! I can't remember the name of the guy at the synths who also played saxo but he is a genius!!! Never seen someone acting so well while singing and playing! (and moreover he looked really queer lol) |