(on a side note, I love watching american idol as well, I just started this year, and there's deffinitely some real talent up there :P)

I totally know what you mean. Much of the music writing has been dumbed down, though I feel that the ultimate low for them now is lyrics. The pop lyrics these days are so incredibly terrible. While I can enjoy some of the music the lyrics actually kill a lot of it for me :/.

I've been watching American Idol on and off over the last few months, and I've watched Simon Cowells 'The XFactor' It's my perception too, that pop music has hit an all time low in terms of song writing. There are still talented singers out there (by talented I mean they can sing) but the music itself seems more 'formula' than ever before, and more banal than ever.

My biggest problem with these 'talent' shows is that the judges are really only looking for one type of singer. Although a few exceptions get through, most of the singers, male and female all sing in the same style. They have this quivering, over emotional R'n'B vocal style, where they take old soul classics and and attempt to demonstrate vocal prowess by bending the notes, and twisting the songs out of all recognition from the original. Most of the contestants look the same, and the purpose of the show is to create 'stars' not ARTISTS. It's all about fame, and nothing to do with music. In private I'm sure Simon Cowell would hold his hands up to that. They are seeking money making machines that within a few years can be dumped by their record companies, when their teenage audience eventually grows up.

I still find the shows entertaining, and like to see people turning up and just taking the p!ss by singing really badly, or performing in a really innapropriate way. I'd give one of them an opportunity. There's always a gap in the market for comedy singers..

Blacksword wrote: I've been watching American Idol on and off over the last few months, and I've watched Simon Cowells 'The XFactor' It's my perception too, that pop music has hit an all time low in terms of song writing. There are still talented singers out there (by talented I mean they can sing) but the music itself seems more 'formula' than ever before, and more banal than ever. My biggest problem with these 'talent' shows is that the judges are really only looking for one type of singer. Although a few exceptions get through, most of the singers, male and female all sing in the same style. They have this quivering, over emotional R'n'B vocal style, where they take old soul classics and and attempt to demonstrate vocal prowess by bending the notes, and twisting the songs out of all recognition from the original. Most of the contestants look the same, and the purpose of the show is to create 'stars' not ARTISTS. It's all about fame, and nothing to do with music. In private I'm sure Simon Cowell would hold his hands up to that. They are seeking money making machines that within a few years can be dumped by their record companies, when their teenage audience eventually grows up. I still find the shows entertaining, and like to see people turning up and just taking the p!ss by singing really badly, or performing in a really innapropriate way. I'd give one of them an opportunity. There's always a gap in the market for comedy singers..

I agree with you.  I see the show as an outcropping of the low state of pop music in general, however, and the industry itself must take the blame for the lack of songwriting talent.  What's sad is that a rocker like Chris and, from last year, Bo, have to subject themselves to the STAR treatment in order to get attention from the public these days.  There aren't any small independent labels out there anymore who can record and break a young rock act in spite of the huge conglomerates that control radio and distribution channels.

Chicapah wrote: Blacksword wrote: I've been watching American Idol on and off over the last few months, and I've watched Simon Cowells 'The XFactor' It's my perception too, that pop music has hit an all time low in terms of song writing. There are still talented singers out there (by talented I mean they can sing) but the music itself seems more 'formula' than ever before, and more banal than ever. My biggest problem with these 'talent' shows is that the judges are really only looking for one type of singer. Although a few exceptions get through, most of the singers, male and female all sing in the same style. They have this quivering, over emotional R'n'B vocal style, where they take old soul classics and and attempt to demonstrate vocal prowess by bending the notes, and twisting the songs out of all recognition from the original. Most of the contestants look the same, and the purpose of the show is to create 'stars' not ARTISTS. It's all about fame, and nothing to do with music. In private I'm sure Simon Cowell would hold his hands up to that. They are seeking money making machines that within a few years can be dumped by their record companies, when their teenage audience eventually grows up. I still find the shows entertaining, and like to see people turning up and just taking the p!ss by singing really badly, or performing in a really innapropriate way. I'd give one of them an opportunity. There's always a gap in the market for comedy singers.. I agree with you.  I see the show as an outcropping of the low state of pop music in general, however, and the industry itself must take the blame for the lack of songwriting talent.  What's sad is that a rocker like Chris and, from last year, Bo, have to subject themselves to the STAR treatment in order to get attention from the public these days.  There aren't any small independent labels out there anymore who can record and break a young rock act in spite of the huge conglomerates that control radio and distribution channels.

Very true, and it's a sad state of affairs. Any rock artist who goes down the TV star route also runs the risk that they will never be taken seriously by us fickle rock fans. Althuogh I like to think we can see beyond the glitter and just respect the music..

Thats said, even prog rock has touched American Idol...well, sort of...did anyone see that guy singing 'I cant Dance' by Genesis about a month ago? That either says great things about the contestant or awful things about late Genesis!

mystic fred wrote: i agree wholeheartedly with all the above comments on this subject, but there's one thing i noticed that puzzles me (or is it my imagination?).  is  modern pop music becoming, apart from the rappers, more guitar-orientated? the above mentioned "talent" shows ignore this and all they seem to be about is singers, singers and more singers all trying to be something they're not? i wouldn't go as far as to say "any fool can sing" but surely there is more rare talent and application involved  in actually playing a musical instrument? now there you could possibly have a show that could involve some real talent!

I think there was one guy on the 'X Factor' who played guitar and sung, but generally you're right, these shows only focus on singers. I think they are looking for people who are less likely to want to write their own songs. Someone who plays an instrument may have big ideas about writing as well as performing. I think they're just looking for puppets.

Blacksword wrote: mystic fred wrote: i agree wholeheartedly with all the above comments on this subject, but there's one thing i noticed that puzzles me (or is it my imagination?).  is  modern pop music becoming, apart from the rappers, more guitar-orientated? the above mentioned "talent" shows ignore this and all they seem to be about is singers, singers and more singers all trying to be something they're not? i wouldn't go as far as to say "any fool can sing" but surely there is more rare talent and application involved  in actually playing a musical instrument? now there you could possibly have a show that could involve some real talent! I think there was one guy on the 'X Factor' who played guitar and sung, but generally you're right, these shows only focus on singers. I think they are looking for people who are less likely to want to write their own songs. Someone who plays an instrument may have big ideas about writing as well as performing. I think they're just looking for puppets.

I don't think anyone who accompanyed themselves on guitar or keyboards would get past the audition stage.  Yes, they are looking for puppets who fit the mold but at least they don't try to pass it off as some kind of "find the next Bob Dylan" contest.  I like watching it because I used to sing professionally and I know how hard it is to sing well.  You can't fake it in a live setting (not for long, anyway) and, as a singing competition, it works on that level alone.  I think I remember the dude singing "I can't dance" and I hope I never hear someone covering "Illegal Alien."