The Neo Disconnect
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29581
Printed Date: April 19 2024 at 12:45
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Topic: The Neo Disconnect
Posted By: Atavachron
Subject: The Neo Disconnect
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:25
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As popular as neo prog tends to be, many 'old schoolers' don’t seem to be very taken with the style. Is this a generational gap or simply a matter of taste? |
Replies:
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:28
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In my case, a matter of taste, a dislike of cheesy keyboards, cases of awful singing and vocals and a general lack of proggy moments in a lot of cases. Not all neo-prog is like that, but a lot I've heard is. -------------   
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:32
That's all opinion.  ------------- 
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Geck0 wrote:Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:34
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I don't like cheesy keyboards in any type of music, not just neo-prog. However, cheesy keyboards seem to one of the sum of the parts, that make neo-prog what it is. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:35
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Blood shall be spilled. Oh yes....blood. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:37
That's all opinion. -------------
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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:38
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I LOVE THE CHEESY KEYBOARDS!!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:38
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Find me some neo-prog without keyboards and I'll listen to it.
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:40
So you're saying one of the defining factors in all neo-prog is that there has to be a cheesy keyboard presence? I ask you, listen to some modern neo prog a la Strangefish or Saens and tell me if you hear cheesiness.  -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:48
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I said keyboards, not cheesy keyboards... do those two bands use keyboards?
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:49
Well yes they do, but you're not going to find a neo band that doesn't have keyboards. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:50
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That's my point! I want a neo-prog band without keyboards! -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:52
You can't always get what you want! 
Now go listen to an obscure demo of some forgotten VDGG track that bears no worth at all besides being able to trun somebody insane with that annoying
 saxophone!  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:53
Well you can't have one unless you start one yourself!  Stop being so difficult and start being a bit nicer towards the genre, because I can go on all day about how much Robert Wyatt and Peter Hammill suck. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 07 2006 at 23:59
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Top Artists: Van der Graaf Generator 167 O RLY, Cygmund? There aren't many naff VdGG demos, so ner!  -------------
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:03
I could like VdGG for reasons other than Hammill, ya know. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:06
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Well you've listened to them more than I have, so Hammill must be a significant factor.
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:09
That's on Last.fm, which I've had a lot longer than you and you've been listening to VdGG for a lot longer than I have. -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:11
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If the music is good, I don't care what the genre is. I have found a few neo bands that I like. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:11
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Indeed I have, I played VdGG much more when I had less CDs and didn't have my last.fm plug-in.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:15
As have I, I just wish I'd found more. With some of you, it does indeed seem to be an issue of very personal taste rather than something generational or cultural(?) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:34
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C'mon, people, don't be intimidated about what you really think-- love neo or not, it's O.K. Just cause someone has a special title here doesn't necessarily mean they have a better view, just a more informed one. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:35
Very true.  -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:43
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Indeed, or just not as good a music taste... *runs away like Josh...* -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 00:54
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As prog lovers, we're often caught in our tastes between 'real' rock (Hendix, Zep, Stones) and 'fake' rock (Oldfield, Tomita, Bagsby). Prog, and now neo prog, bridged that gap and opened a whole new middleground. This is, at the end of the day, a good thing and neo prog continues that journey between the musics. And what of a band like Planet X; not neo prog by definition but definately new and definately prog. Liquid T as well, so what about it? |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 05:36
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Personally, I think its partly a generational thing, especially in the UK. When popular music hit its lowest ebb in the early 1980's, at a time when Yes were producing 90125, & Genesis Genesis; and we all thought 'prog' had died, Marillion were like a breath of fresh air, swiftly followed by Pendragon, IQ, Pallas & Twelfth Night in what was a peculiarly British scene....
There are nevertheless a lot of mediocre neo-prog bands on the market, which detract from the quality of the movement, which can be superb when its very good. I've said this before on other threads, but for those wanting to get into neo-prog, here are my top 10 fave bands, and albums from each band....(in no particular order)
IQ: Ever
Jadis: More Than Meets The Eye
Pendragon: The Masquerade Overture
Pallas: Beat The Drum
Iluvatar: Children
Collage: Moonshine
Satellite: Evening Games
Clepsydra: Fears
Arena: Pepper's Ghost
Janison Edge: The Services Of Mary Goode
I hope this is of some help....
------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Tony Fisher
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 06:47
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Marillion, IQ and Pendragon are very good indeed (though there are some dodgy ones as well). I'd far sooner listen to them than (say) King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or ELP, classic era bands I have never really got into (and now almost certainly never will). (I have just watched a video of "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and agree - Hamill is dreadful but the whole track stinks). |
Posted By: spleenache
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 09:57
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Western mind has difficulty understanding without classification. All science has has been based on classification. We simply must classify so that complex things become simpler for us to comprehend. Hence classification is an artifact of the way we are accustomed to think. Once we classify we need to go deeper and judge participant elements on their merit. There is no value in broad brush judgment statements such as "style A" or "style B" does not speak to a whole generation. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 10:41
Now, I love Marillion and IQ (can't say much for Pendragon), and KC and VDGG. Unlike most fans, "Pawn Hearts" doesn't appeal to me that much. Have you tried "H to He?" ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 10:45
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Neo has blissfull moments and has a say in '80s music. (uhm...about everything...) ------------- 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 10:46
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neo prog is a very select and recognizable style that brings some color, freshness and modernity to the old dusty LP's of the 70's. My ELP's LP's are particularly scratched and the sound is damned flat; when ELpowell album arrived, I said: "WOW, if they could have sounded like that in 1973!!" ELPowell is not neo, but the attitude regarding the urge to create modern & bombastic sound gets the album not very far from neo. Neo prog insists on the sonority, the atmosphere, rather than on complexity. When I listen to neo, i feel comfortable, and I abandon myself to the music. neo prog is probably the most emotional subgenre: that's why many women like neo.
neo is not a generational problem:
I am 39, I own about anything classic prog of the 70's, and I can certify I love it, except maybe VDGG, from which by the way I can admit they are very talented and have really good moments. More than that: I prefer symphonic prog rock than neo prog!! however, I learned to not analyze the neo prog music because it does not work: clepsydra, if you analyze them, have pretty banal time signatures and structure. OK. On the other hand, if you do not analyze and open your emotional side, then clepsydra suddenly becomes the most captivating band! the problem with people who find nothing good in neo prog is that maybe they have their emotional side closed: it's like men who are afraid to fall in love with a sensitive beauty who cannot play chess, read maps, program VCR and fill tax forms.
------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 10:54
I probably agree, but this is dangerous ground.
No comment.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 11:29
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Neo is the most emotional subgenre? Maybe I've been listening to the wrong neo... I am 17, and I don't like it simply because I don't like it. I like some new prog (Taal and 65daysofstatic spring to mind), but not neo. I never liked symphonic all that much, which is probably part of it. I was going to say something about it being too imitative, but I found that the most blatant regressive rockers (Wobbler, The Flower Kings, etc.) are in fact classified as Symphonic, so I won't. greenback, your emotional comment is a very silly one. I don't give a damn about how complex the music is or how hard it is to play; I care about how it affects me and whether it gives me "highs" (I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about--also somewhat vulgarly reffered to as an "eargasm"). I have not found any neo that I like and actually affects me, except I do like the song Script for A Jester's Tear. But not enough to buy the album. |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 11:52
nevertheless there is a reason! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 12:39
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There's some good neo, there's some bad. The good stuff is plenty of fun, and it'd be cool if it replaced mainstream pop - it's very catchy without being annoying. Is it emotional? 'Emotional' as in 'evoking an emotional response' - depends on the musican and/or the listener (and hate is also an emotion ).'Emotional' as a very awkward synonym of 'multifaceted' - I don't think so... |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 12:47
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Yes, there is. I find it somewhat dull, imitative of classic prog, and I can't connect with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that you think that since I do not like your specialty, I must have killed and suppressed my emotions. I think post-rock, space-rock, and perhaps even progressive electronic are far more atmospheric, and in terms of sheer emotional impact, it's hard to argue with GYBE's crescendos (even though I don't like them because I can't seem to connect with their music) or other post-rock bands. If we were going psychologically profile someone from the music he liked (which is a foolish thing in itself), I would think that it would be the prog-metal fan who has his "emotional side closed". Not that I think that's true, but it logically follows much more than dislikiing neo-prog. And I listened to a Clepsydra song. It was pretty boring. Please stop pretending that your opinions are fact. |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 13:27
I tend to agree in main here, I also take on board what you say Ghandi2, I don't think you are being acused of having your emotions closed, but maybe there is a possiblity that some of the emotions have yet to awaken in one so young? For example, Pendragon's "Not of this World" really is the story of Nick Barrett's divorce, the betrayal, and the promises he made to his son at that time. I know people who simply "did not get" this album 5 years ago, but I have since seen them weep when they head it....... simply, they had not the emotional experience to understand it before, and then later when they had an experience of something similar it became a very powerful album! I tend to find that the "neo" tag is ridiculous in the amount of music it covers, when I first got into Marillion and Pendragon in the early 80's when no one in the UK knew the term "neo", for me it's only something I have been aware of in the last 4 or 5 years.........there is a LOT of music under the neo umbrella I find frankly rather unpleasant, but there is a lot I adore..... and I simply do not see the similarities between some bands under the neo heading. I was passionate about certain bands when I was in my teens, so much so I was closed to other types of music and dismissed it out of hand....... now I listen to anything, but I don't listen to genre labels. P-C |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 13:45
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Well I like neo prog and would even put IQ ahead of Genesis and Yes in terms of my own listening pleasure generally.As much as I like Yes their music is too weird and cosmic for me to really relate to a lot of the time it so I only enjoy the musicianship (which of course is remarkably good) while Genesis music goes right over my head at times (I won't pretend to understand The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway for instance) .
IQ for me fill a niche creating music that is both emotional and atmospheric.IQ's Ever has long been one of my favourite albums as is Marillion's Seasons End.Neo prog isn't burdened by the necessity to have numerous tempo changes and clever time signatures but concentrates more on human emotions.IQ do this really well especially.Neo also has less reliance on individual virtuosity and more on songwriting.That all said no neo prog band will ever reach the levels that Yes,Genesis and ELP reached at their peak.Just a simple fact but not one that destroys my enjoyment of Neo prog.
Its a shame though for anyone to deprive themself of the great music that has come out from IQ,Arena,Marillion etc and a its a big mistake to write off these bands IMHO.
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Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 13:56
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i agree about "Ever" absoloutely astounding album, I clearly remember the first time I heard it, (at a Jadis Garden gig!!!) and it blew me away......and still does! I agree, that a lot of what is termed "neo" seems to be more about writing good songs, and in bands like Pendragon, Marillion, Jadis, and IQ the songwriting can be amazingly good, good solid songs. I think there is some "prog-snobbery" about good songs, but I also think a good song that a person relates to has more longevity than some technical stuff....I read a thread yesterday about "math-prog"......PERLEEEEASE!!!!  I am some one who sings in the bath.........I don't do "math"!!! Long live a good song, even if you want to call it "neo" P-c (typing off par due to injury...I am trying to rectify mistakes, but losing the will to!) |
Posted By: Tony Fisher
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:46
Yep. Didn't like that much either. I love Hugh Banton's organ work and Guy Evans is a fine drummer. It's Hamill I have an issue with. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:57
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I believe perhaps it's the almost complete lack of originality that makes me dislike neo-prog.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 16:06
If I recorded myself strangling a canary in a tin can, it would be original, but that wouldn't stop it from sounding like complete sh*t.
Oops, I just summarized Mike Patton's career again....
  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 18:11
Ansen's gonna' love you ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Selkie
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 19:03
yeah, most neo sounds like rehashed and dumbed down 70's prog to my ears. If I want really emotional music, I'll listen Paatos or Jeff Buckley.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 23:08
There is something about NEO i really like.Maybe because it's all radio friendly ,fun music,i don't know?I do know i love MARILLION and THE WATCH.The fact a lot of it could be played on the radio i'm sure would make a lot of proggers despise the genre. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 23:15
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And yet, those bands aren't really played on the radio, at least not on the mainstream airwaves. |
Posted By: moonlitbay
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 01:47
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"Old-timers" don't like Neo-prog because they are stuck with their 70-style music. I think they are more narrow-minded than the rest of us.... ------------- A reunion.......it will never happen in my lifetime!! |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 03:29
based on what ??? the fact that the term "neo" seems to be the most despised in prog, or based on your experiences of particular bands? Neo bashing almost seems to be a past time here, by holding a very big umbrella over a group of bands and calling them all "neo" you are missing out on a lot of great music. I really think this "Neo" label has translation issues. Selkie you think MOST neo prog sounds dumbed down.....it's like me saying MOST post rock or RIO is just a bunch of pseudo pipe clangers in my ears........ now I know soome fantastic bands that come under these genres, but admittedly there are some LESS than fantastic ones too......... do you see, by holding a whole genre up for distaste you are missing some good stuff! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 03:39
| prog-chick makes an excellent point, one I've heard her state before. Initially the bands now labelled as neo-prog were just new bands with a progressive style and an updated sound. It was only later out of a tendency to categorize that they succumbed to the term. Without it, they're just new bands with something to say, and a lot of people like it. |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 03:45
Thank you Atavachron,  I also think that it is worth pointing out that a lot of these bands are not that new either...... Pendragon formed almost 30 yrs ago, 25yrs for IQ, Pallas getting on for 25 yrs.....Marillion 30+ years....... Apart from anything else, don't you think it's a bit rude to keep alluding to these (and others) as "the new boys of prog" ??? P-C |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 03:52
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Definately...I've always wondered how those bands could, at this point, be 'neo' anything. Pretty soon were going to have to start calling people post-avant-pre-neo... Technically, Nebelnest and Planet X are more neo than the bands in question. |
Posted By: Mategra
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 04:57
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Marillion is perhaps the only so-called Neo-prog band I am able to enjoy (except "Season's End"). Another enjoyable British 80s band is of course It Bites, but they are generally not labelled as "Neo" (even if they could be).
But bands like IQ, Cyan, Pendragon, Arena, Jadis, Pallas, Clepsydra and Collage really don't do very much for me.
The keyboards are not a major problem, especially not the instruments in themselves (the way they are played is often a problem though). My major problem with Neo (IQ type), which makes it so uninteresting, is rather the lack of virtually all the good ingredients of Real prog.
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 06:44
I dont know were the term was coined from but Neo is now just another sub-genre title in prog like Symphonic or Psychodelic/Space rock. The title may no longer be aplicable but I get the feeling it has been in use for a while (anyone know when it was first used?) and theirs no need to change it. Afterall, what would we change it to? It would probably only be a term used here on this site, which could confuse people. What really anoys me is that some people tend to label everything after 1980 as neo, thats Marillion, The Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Guapo etc. That is what I'd call stupid. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 09:51
 oh brother........... now I bow out, please excuse me gentlemen, but this is becoming ridiculous.............
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Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 11:03
Run for the hills!!! The neo prog team is here to hammer down any opposition to their genre! Flee in terror!!! ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:44
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Sorry to lose you, prog-chick. I may bow out soon, too, and I started the thread!  sleeper; I agree, 'neo' has become an important term of identification. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:53
Pardon?  I am not that keen on most neo-prog bands I've heard, but I'm for one thing not an "Old-timer", neither do I dislike music stuck in the 1970s. Neo-prog isn't stuck in the 1970s, this I know, so why do you say this? They take elements of 1970s music, change it and make a different sound from it (albeit, not one I am too keen on). I like bands like Wobbler and even Anglagard (not exactly a copy band, mind you), who sound more 1970s than any neo-prog bands do! I'm certainly not "narrow-minded" either, I listen to most prog-genres and I happen to like Discipline's "Unfolded Like Staircase" album, which is labelled here as neo-prog. -------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:55
I would just like to say that without doubt, Neo gets more bashing than any other genre in the forum, and much of it is quite unfair. I remember about a year ago, it got to ridiculous proportions on this site, which pissed a few people off.
I think we just have to accept that while it really grooves its fan's truffles, it will always leave some people cold.....
and leave it at that.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:56
| Quite right. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 15:38
That's way too stereotypical. Listen to some neo like Strangefish and tell me if that descriptive still applies.There are alot of good neo bands out there who just don't sound like that.Like the aforementioned Strangefish or bands like Ezra Winston. -------------  |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 15:51
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I know this Jody, I've just not heard these new neo-prog bands yet, but I shall do. The 80s keyboard sound doesn't seem so prevalent anymore, so I'm always willing to give them a try. By the way, I think White Willow are sometimes neo-prog (but they're not a neo-prog band, just some compositions sound like that to my ears), yet I have no problems with their sound. I will most likely prefer Strangefish and Ezra Winston. I don't like Frost* though, from what I've heard. -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 15:59
...which just means that you've never heard Tales From The Lush Attic or IQ's last album Dark Matter.I just so love it when people are so sure they know what real prog is all about
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 15:59
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I am 42 going on 43 (and if you want to kill me now you're my age or even older). That means that my roots are 70's prog and I am suspected as "stuck in the past", "narrow minded" and now also "closed emotional" (is that the term was used ?).
Now, I do'nt know any NEO except Discipline's "Unfolded like staircase" which is IMO a masterpiece but sounds symphonic to me (and at least Gecko said the same) so I have nothing to say on the subject from my knowledge, yet I have few comments :
1. I do'nt believe any sub-genre is so narrow you can say frases like "cheasy keyboards" or "most emotional" . In any sub-genre there are more and less of many things. So I guess saying I do'nt like the whole sub-genre means I did not hear enough of it (and in NEO this is my case so I'm not blaming anyone).
2. As someone allready said earlier, we classify to make it easy to us to understand but then we take this artificial description very seriously, forgetting it's only aim was to help us to get to know it. This is when we start to say rubbish. From my point of view (and I said it quite a lot in the past few months) this sub-genring went way too far and now it disturbs us more than help us.
3. As much as I do'nt agree to Gecko's generalizations, if you disregard the quality of VDGG or Robert Wyatt then I'll take my sword and come fighting side by side with him ! ------------- omri |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 16:07
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Hahaha, thanks Omri! I'm actually listened to the Eyestrings sample here on PA and I like it. I tried Darwin's Radio, Clepsydra and Carptree (Superhero was pure bilge to my ears!) and didn't care for them. Partly the keyboards, partly the vocals and the guitar sound. However, Eyestrings (listening to one track anyhow), doesn't have any of those elements, so I actually like this track. Good stuff! Well Omri, I also like Discipline, but as you say, I don't think it's Neo either... I have made generalizations, but I know some neo-prog isn't like other neo-prog and it's this neo-prog I want to hear. Eyestrings sound good to my ears, so something like that would be nice! Frost* I just cannot get on with at all by the way. Now listening to Gazpacho and that's not to bad either. Oh and yes, if anyone doesn't recognise the quality in VdGG (and Hammill's voice - you don't have to like it, but surely you can recognise talent?) and Robert Wyatt, then myself and Omri will team up. -------------
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Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 19:28
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I have to say I enjoy some neo prog, even though I am from the 'older' generation who loved(s) the classic bands, Genesis, Yes & Floyd. Not all neo by the way, but certainly Pendragon, some Marillion and Collage/Satellite.
Ok, it is a little different, but it is also similar in some ways to the older bands, and I don't care much for labelling, as long as I enjoy the music!
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 19:36
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Personally, I think we get too hung up on genres. I have a feeling that some people won't give neo, prog metal, krautrock, etc. a chance simply because of it's label. To me, it's music. I don't care for prog metal, but really enjoy Dream Theater and Riverside. It's like we're all thinking too much. Just enjoy what you like. E ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 19:56
| Well put E-Dub! Words to live by... |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:11
ah! man! there are so many things to discover in the neo prog style! I've just reviewed lil' BoBBY's rock bottom! a GOOD record, but I think he is overrated! better than hammill though, because he makes me laugh with his antic vocals! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:17
Not of this World has some of the most rediculous keyboard work I've ever heard, though. Clive Nolan must've been going through a phase or soemthing.... ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:20
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<<Not of this World has some of the most rediculous keyboard work I've ever heard, though. Clive Nolan must've been going through a phase or soemthing....>> I should give that a closer listen next time. That's probably my favorite Pendragon disc, besides Masquerade Overture. Got their new DVD and it's pretty awesome. I thought Live At Last was a bit too perfect and I question it's authenticity. There are parts where Barrett will have a hand or two in the air, but the guitar is still playing. This, however, is completely live. E -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:23
Thanks, Atavachron. I'm actually enjoying the discovery of new music...and this site has REALLY helped me out in that respect. E -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:24
I was just listening to it in the car a few hours ago (it's not good driving music, by the way ). The melodies are great, some of the best in Pendragon's career, but everything is just too much. In my review, I said the biggest downfall in the album is that it tried to do EVERYTHING. I bet there are at least 8 layers in each song, with the keyboards taking up 3 or so. Go for minimalism or the middle ground, but so many layers is the equivalent of being hit with a brick.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:28
The car is where I do my main listening, and the last time I played it (a few weeks ago) I thoroughly enjoyed it. In all actuality, Pendragon's music is what I enjoy the most. Barrett's vocals can be a bit grating at times, but the man is a very good guitarist. I'm sure you and I are hearing different things. Not saying you're wrong by any stretch of the imagination. I may like the over-the-top keys more than you. It's all a matter of taste. E -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:30
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Oh, and I may have learned the title of the new Marillion album. It was leaked acidentally. E -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:30
I don't know. I like everything else by Pendragon (don't know about Kowtow, though). I think my favorite would have to be either Believe or The Masquerade Overture. The Wishing Well is probably my favorite Pendragon song.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:31
What is it?!  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:34
YEAH YEAH YEAH! -------------
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:59
Please, Please TELL US!
Actually, I'm getting a bit fed-up with the neo-bashing going on here sometimes. Neo is one of the most divers genres here on PA. It varies between (sometimes cheesy) symphonic type music and highly original. One thing it has in common mi is that it's always very melodic, and to me that's a good quality. At this moment I'm listening to Quidam, and before that to Satellite. Both highly original and beautiful. I love neo! ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 20:59
my favorite one is jewel: it is a jewell! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:09
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Teardrop is the title I've heard. E -------------
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:22
Thanks, mate.
Do you know anything else of the album (is it going to be a double one like Marbles, or a single, what about the number of songs on the album, when will it be released?) ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:32
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It's due to come out in March (My birthday's in March. I know what I'm asking for!) and here's a track listing: Real Tears for Sale Circular Ride State of Mind Faith Voice from the past Why is nothing ever No such thing Most toys You can't Older than me Wound Mr Taurus Especially true Not your fault Other half Threw me out Thank you See it like a baby Half the world Last century for man I think it's only a single disc; however, there are a lot of songs for merely a single disc. Also, I've heard "Circular Rides", "Half The World", and "Last Century For Man" are pretty killer. E -------------
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:41
Thanks for the info 
I'll certainly get it as soon as I can, I love Marillion! ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 22:01
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Are you going to the convention? I believe it's in your country. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it, too. I got the latest WebUK magazine and they talk a lot about the new disc. Gonna be a good 40th birthday next year. E -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 09 2006 at 22:18
| O.K. fellas, but let's try to remember the topic; what causes the divide between neo fans and certain others-- is it purely taste? You two both like neo but not all the same artists and sometimes for different reasons. |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 00:22
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@ E-Dub: Yes, probably I'll go. But I'm not certain yet. Ask me again in December, and I'll know
@Atavachron: Yeah, we were a little off-topic, but to get on topic again I'll just repeat one of my former posts:
Actually, I'm getting a bit fed-up with the neo-bashing (and prog-metal bashing!) going on here sometimes. Neo is one of the most divers genres here on PA. It varies between (sometimes cheesy) symphonic type music and highly original music. One thing it has in common mi is that it's always very melodic, and to me that's a good quality. At this moment I'm listening to Quidam, and before that to Satellite. Both highly original and beautiful. I love neo!
Is it all taste? : I think a lot of people who "dispise" neo should just listen some more albums: I find that of one band I like some albums very much, and other not so much. (e.g. Quidam I like SurREvival much more than other albums). That's the same with other genres, I suppose. If the first album you encounter is not good in your opinion, then you too easily dispose of the genre as a whole. Ofcourse you should not look in the neo genre for REVOLUTIONARY music, since that's just not what it is. Then you should shop in RIO/Avant or Zeuhl, not in Neo. ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 00:30
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Soul Dreamer-- Keen point; melodic appeal is often at odds with structure, and I go back and forth liking both. Also, my first neo prog CD was I.Q.'s 'Dark Matter'-- it's a great album but I wasn't listening often and removed it from my regular collection. But your point is made; my first taste of the style was one I didn't love, so I didn't pursue the other stuff. I also didn't care for Cynic (are they neo or prog metal?), but the effort and vision they put into 'Focus' was tremendous. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 00:40
I used to like neo-prog, but now I exclusively listen to Lil' John. WHHHHHAAAAATTT! YEEEAAAAHHH! -------------  
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 00:43
| O.K... |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 18:40
Sorry I went away, but I have to sleep sometimes (it was 6:30 in the morning....). I agree with you there (about melodic appeal being often at odds with structure). To me both are important, but I tend to look over those tracks that don't meet decent structural requisits, whereas if a whole album doesn't offer me at least a few good melodies, I will qualify it as "unlistenable". I like to hum a good tune sometimes About Cynic: I don't know the album so I cannot comment. I.Q. has some very good albums, I like Dark Matter!------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Selkie
Date Posted: October 10 2006 at 19:50
Cynic usually get put in the same boat as Atheist and later period Death, who are technical death metal. Focus is softer than the typical tech-death album, and has jazzy influences.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2006 at 01:31
| 'Tech-death'... I like it. I guess that's the beauty of progressive music, the continual inclusion or exclusion of other music forms, as the musicians turn inside-out the music that came before. |