Hired hands on tour!
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Topic: Hired hands on tour!
Posted By: raindance
Subject: Hired hands on tour!
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 19:50
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Which bands used additional musicians on tour and why? Point being that aren't prog bands supposed to be the creme de la creme of musicians, so why hire extra's?
A tour that comes to mind is Floyd's tour of The Wall when they hired Snowy White and Midge Ure!
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Replies:
Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 19:56
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SKY used Rick Wakeman on their tour for the album "The Great Balloon Race." Either Steve Gray wasn't couldn't be there or they just wanted an extra keyboard player, I can't remember exactly. It's a great album, by the way, wish I could of seen the tour (would have helped if I was alive then I guess ;)). That's the first example I thought of. ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 20:15
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It seems bands hire extra musicians basically cause they want to reproduce the sound of their albums, and sometimes a four piece can achive it. Its not something I like that much, but if it works well, then so be it. Many times bands that dont have keyboards in thei music, or at least not in the band, bring them so it can cover some spotes when playing live, so the sound is richer. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 20:59
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I can think of two intances.
Yes hired Billy Sherwood on the 'Talk' tour & Transatlantic hired Daniel Gildenglow on the 'Bridge Across Forever' tour.
Like El Bothy says, to reproduce a studio album in a live setting they have to use extra musicians. Bands will lay down multi tracks in the studio, which makes it impossible to authentically recreate the album on stage without hired hands. It's not ideal but I suppose it's better than using backing tapes as many bands do.
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 21:53
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I usually don't like it. But PT's addition of John Wesely is consistant, and I think he has become a part of their live band, so this case does not bother me at all. ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: darren
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 22:28
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I agree that it's just to fill out the sound. If the album had double tracking and overdubs, it's going to sound sparse without someone playing, say, rhythm guitar. Years ago when I saw Floyd, they had extra guitarist or two, an extra keyboard player and a percussionist. Not to mention back up singers. I'm not sure how something like "Comfortably Numb" would sound with just one guitarist. You gotta admit; hired guns are preferable to prerecorded tracks. ------------- "they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world. the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 22:33
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Pink Floyd needed a sax player and back up singers. Genesis had their two 'live only' members after Hackett left, and even had Bill Bruford for a little while he was still there. It would have been impossible for them to do it otherwise. It wouldn't have been much of a show with Phil behind the drum kit for the whole concert. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 31 2006 at 23:31
For a simple reason.......human limitations, in studio one musician can play 2, 3 or 20 instruments overdubbing, this can't be done on stage, just imagine Mike Oldfield playing all the instruments in Tubular Bells.
Iván ------------- 
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raindance wrote:Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 00:10
Midge Ure?  The additional musicians used at The Wall concerts during 1980 & 1981 were: The Surrogate Band: Andy Bown - bass & Ovation acoustic guitars Andy Roberts - guitar & Ovation acoustic guitar - 1981 shows only Snowy White - guitar & Ovation acoustic guitar - 1980 shows only Willie Wilson - drums & tambourine Clive Brooks - drums on June 13 1981 only Peter Wood - keyboard & Ovation acoustic guitar Also, backing vocals on Outside The Wall: Joe Chemay Stan Farber Jim Haas John Joyce |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 00:11
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This is about Tony Levin and the "Union Tour" (1991) (from http://www.forgottenyesterdays.com/tour_listing.asp?s=5&tname=14&SortBy=tDate&so=asc&navb=4 - http://www.forgottenyesterdays.com/tour_listing.asp?s=5&tname=14&SortBy=tDate&so=asc&navb=4 ):
Notes From The Edge:
TONY LEVIN INTERVIEW by Mike Tiano ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 00:16
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Pink Floyd included additional musicians in their concerts since maybe 1973, to play all the songs from their "Dark Side of the Moon" album: one guitarist, a sax player (Dick Parry) and two female backing singers. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 00:32
Sorry, but for Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon tours of USA (x2) and UK in 1973 and on through to the British Winter Tour of late 1974, additional personnel were Dick Parry on saxophone and 2/3 backing singers [it varied] sometimes called The Blackberries. The first time a second guitarist was used on tour was the 'In The Flesh' tours of Europe and North America in 1977 to promote the Animals album - this was when Snowy White first got involved with them. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 00:38
I was sure Levin played in some gigs during the Onion tour, will check it
Yep, you're right, he only played officially in the album, point taken, probably mistaked it with the ABWH Tour in which he got hepatitis and was replaced by Jeff Berlin on some dates, precisely for the recording of An Evening of Yes Music Plus.
But I'm still sure I read some people watching Levin on some Union gigs, probably some member here hass seen this.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Camel_APPeal
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 01:08
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I don't mind bands hiring an 'extra hand' for live performances; especially if the 'guest' musicians' aportations improve the music, or at least, refresh the music.
What amazed me though, was watching the live Gentle Giant videos on Youtube. I would've expected them to hire additional musicians to reproduce their sound live, but no! they managed to play it all by themselves!! GG is really amazing! -------------  "After all, it's music what we're talking about here, so there's no best or worst; just what you like and what you don't" |
Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 01:32
Midge Ure defineatly played on some date's on the Wall Tour. I believe it was when Snowy White was ill or something!
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Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 03:45
| I think all the hired hands on Pulse are partly what makes it such a dull record. Turned Floyd into a tribute act to themselves |
Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 05:26
Perhaps you might divulge your sources. |
Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 05:37
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Does no one else think that the term "hired hands" is derogatory and disrespectful to incredibly talented musicians? I am sure the bands in question felt that the addition of these talents added something to their performances, they are hardly likely to sabbotage their own work are they? P-C |
Posted By: JusLisn
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 12:44
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I agree with prog-chick. I have worked in a professional recording studio with "hired hands". These really are talented people with a real gift for interpreting music into something magical. In fact, in many instances are probibly more talented, at least technically, than the originators of the music.
------------- Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo. So little time, so much to know. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 13:22
Exacly!!! I wrote the exact same thing in my review of Pulse...never liked that album ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 14:21
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I saw the beachboys live a few years ago (yes they are very old now) for some reason, and Brian Wilson wasnt present do to internal conflicts or something, so they had several additional vocalists and a decent guitarist. On the Eagles' Farewell tour, they have a guest guitarist (no idea why, when all but one of them plays guitar on some songs) and a backing horn band, who do an awesome intro to Hotel California and some others. On several Queen tours, they had a guest musician who appeared to be a middle-aged man who wore a tight pink shirt (not pretty), played guitar, and had a penchant for rubbing up on Brian May during guitar intensive parts... kinda weird... necessary? maybe ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: JP312
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 15:23
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It's kinda funny in a way that there are apparently different attitudes about using backing musicians for a solo artist versus a "band."
I use "bands" in quotes because I tend to think of a band, in its purest form, as a group of musicians that perform music together in real time, and everything that is essential to the music can be played by said musicians. That's when I would laugh whenever I heard the Spice Girls or Backstreet Boys referred to as a band. But by my definition, latter-day Pink Floyd or Genesis would not really be a true band either, rather than a core group of musicians who provide the main creative inputs and is then augmented by others to play concerts.
It seems that it's more forgiveable for a solo artist or small group to have backup musicians since it would be physically impossible (in most cases) for said artist(s) to reproduce his or her music live if it's arranged for a full band. For instance, I think anyone who goes to see Steely Dan should expect that there will be other musicians playing with them.
Then, of course, there are cases where bands will use large additional groups of musicians - I refer to the Moody Blues, or to Yes on their recent symphonic tour, but in those cases, it seems like the additional orchestra is a separate add-on entity from the band, even when their sound is integral to the band's music, as with the Moody Blues in particular.
Generally speaking, when I go to a concert, I would want to hear a performance that does justice to the material being performed. I'm not expecting it to be played verbatim based on a recording - in fact, I like it to expand from the original when appropriate. That said, I don't really have a problem with additional members being used to "fill the space" as it were, provided that the key members of the group are still the featured players.
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Posted By: eddietrooper
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 18:33
The Eagles hired a guitarist because Don Felder (one of their lead guitar players) had left the band in 2001. They still had Joe Walsh and Glenn Frey but this has always been a three-guitars band.
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Posted By: Community
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 18:48
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Never heard Bruford described as a hired hand before sounds disrespectful in the extteme some of our greatest musos perform as these so called hired hands |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 01 2006 at 23:04
I have the "Eagles Live" album released in 1980. They also listed in the cover additional musicians to play the songs live.
Don Felder didn`t left the band. He was fired by Henley and Frey because Felder wanted to know about the band`s finances in early 2001. There was a legal fight. Henley and Frey are the only original members of the band, and it seems that the band`s name is their property, they are the "bosses" and they are also the main composers of the band.
I read in the web a long time ago that The Beach Boys were divided in three different bands: one led by Brian Wilson, another by Mike Love, and there was another band led by other former members. One of the bands (I think that it was Mike Love`s band) has the rights to the Beach Boys`name legally. The other two bands tour using different names. I think that Brian Wilson uses the "Brian Wilson`s Band" name. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 01:03
Well, not disrespectfull he was hired hand in a lot of bands as guest in studio albums or in Gigs:
And I'm sure there are more, but his participation was always brilliant, bands like Absolute Elsewhere will neverbe remembered except for Bill's involvement. Bill Bruford is a proffesional musician and proffesionals are hired, some law firms hire expert lawyers in some specific issues for high profile cases but never invite them to be partners and nobody says a word, I'm sure Christian Barnard was hired by Hospitals all around the world to be a consultant in Heart Transplant cases and that's not derogatory.
Iván
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Posted By: Radar Love
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 16:27
I remember YES used an extra keyboard player on the ABWH tour! Wasn't his name Jonathon Elias or something?
Seeing another keyboard player on stage to supplement Wakey really surprised me as he can make his keykoards sound like an orchestra!
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Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: November 02 2006 at 16:34
Sorry for the misinformation! It was Thin Lizzy that Midge played in on their '79 USA tour and not Floyd!
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Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 11:11
The "An Evening Of YES Music Plus" Live album from ABWH (the version released in the U.S. in 1994 by Herald Records) lists the following musicians (as "Augmented by"):
Milton McDonald-guitars
Julian Colbeck-keyboards
Jeff Berlin-Bass
McDonald also appeared in their studio album. The studio album lists Matt Clifford on "keyboards and orchestrations", Tony Levin on bass and stick, and other backing singers.
In absence of any other real evidence presented in this Forum I can say that Levin never played with YES during the "Union Tour". In another interview for the "Notes from the Edge" website, Howe said that he wanted Levin for the tour because Chris Squire "only learned to play "Shock to the System" from the "Union" album". Howe said that he wanted to play other songs recorded by ABWH from the album, but Squire didn`t want to learn how to play the other songs recorded by ABWH for the "Union" album. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 11:22
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I think that several session musicians are among the best musicians in the world. They can play in any style and in a short time can learn a lot of songs to play with other bands or soloists on tour or/and in the studio.
Bill Bruford, IMO, is an special case, because between late 1974 and late 1976 he was without a full time band, and he needed to work, so he had to play as "hired hand" with several musicians, even including Chris Squire, who, as Bruford says in the FAQ section of his official website, was one of the reasons because he left YES in 1972: "I couldn`t wait for Chris Squire anymore. One of the worst insults that a musician can do to his band mates is to make them wait". Squire is famous among some of his band mates for arriving late for rehearsals and sometimes even for concerts! In some interviews, Jon Anderson and Bruford said that, and in the booklet notes from the "BBC Recordings 1969-70" album from YES, Peter Banks said that too!
Bruford had to play with some bands even if he didn`t like their music very much. Genesis was one of those bands. He also played with Roy Harper!
Chester Thompson is, IMO, one of the best session drummers. Sometimes I prefer to listen to the live version of some Genesis`songs because IMO he played the songs better than Phil Collins! Some examples of this are "In the Cage", "Me and Sarah Jane", "Follow You Follow Me" and "Driving the Last Spike". ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 15:43
Yes we know Guillermo I admitted I confused the Onion album and the ABWH tour a page ago.
This was a bit of bad luck for Tony, he toured almost al the dates, but he got hepatoitis and was replaced during 5 or 6 dates by Jeff Berlin.
During those exact dates the live album was recorded and Berlin appeared in the credits
Seems Tony Levin doesn't have good luck with Yes related tours.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 20:28
quoted for truth, this band really is incredible! ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 03 2006 at 20:40
Yes, in fact we can see the superb performance of Tubullar Bells in Mike`s Elements DVD, there are at least 10 people playing plus a choir, but if you want to see Mike`s playing all the instruments at the same time you can watch his performance of William Tell Overture
 Additional musicians are sometimes neccesary but i know that we sometimes feel that they dont have to be there...
------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: November 04 2006 at 12:18
I think that Jeff Berlin did a very good job considering that he had few days to learn the songs, but Tony Levin`s playing is missed in the "An Evening..." album, because he played the stick with ABWH, and Berlin didn`t play the stick, but he "equalized" his bass guitar trying to make it sound like a stick. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |