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Prog-metal for people who don't like prog-metal

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Topic: Prog-metal for people who don't like prog-metal
Posted By: Bryan
Subject: Prog-metal for people who don't like prog-metal
Date Posted: November 23 2006 at 16:28
Anybody who follows developments among the community here at PA will have undoubtably noticed (whichever side of it you may place yourself on) some hostility of sorts towards the progressive metal category.  Bands like Dream Theater and Opeth have well established themselves in the prog-metal world, to the delight of many but to the disdain of others, many of whom have now sadly decided the prog-metal universe is "not for them" on the basis of a couple of the genre's more seminal artists.  Whether it will have any success whatsoever is something I'm unsure of at best, but I've decided that in an effort to spread some recognition of this misunderstood subgenre I'm going to recommend some albums that those who don't necessarily appreciate Dream Theater's mind-boggling technical w**kery or Opeth's roaring guitars and growled vocals may be able to sink their teeth into... or at least so I hope.  This list will continue to grow as I think of more/have more time to update it, so if you're at all interested please stay tuned. Smile

Anyway, without further adieu...

Band: Subterranean Masquerade
Album: Suspended Animation Dreams
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=8870 - PA Link
Samples: http://www.submasq.com/ - http://www.submasq.com/ (click the "downloads" button)
Truly one of prog's most interesting current bands, the "metal" tag is a little misleading when dealing with these guys.  They do include heavy sections in their music (even some occasional growls, though not enough that it should scare anybody off), yet they deliver such an eclectic sound as to encorperate horn instruments, jazzy sections, spacey jamming, even harmonica into their (generally fairly melodic) palette of sounds.  As crazy and unpredictable as they may sound, SM avoid falling into avant-garde  pretentions and actually manage to be very listenable and accessible while still maintaining an impressive sense of originality.  Though Suspended Animation Dreams isn't a hard album to like right away, you'll keep finding new joys buried within it for countless spins into the future.

Band: Hammers of Misfortune
Album: The Locust Years
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=12793 - PA Link
Samples: http://myspace.com/hammersofmisfortune - http://myspace.com/hammersofmisfortune
If you supported the inclusion of Iron Maiden on PA, you'll most likely appreciate that the end of the metal spectrum that these guys veer closest to is heavy metal.  These guys aren't Iron Maiden though, their diversity and somewhat darker tone brings back memories of King Crimson while their operatic conceptual bombast and fantastic organ sound (more emphasized on this album than either of their previous two) would make ELP proud.  Though the vocals are mostly a threatrical but powerful midrange male voice (don't worry, this isn't James LaBrie we're dealing with), we also hear some fantastic female fronted bits and several acoustic or piano driven interludes to the extremely catchy harder ones.  Quite accessible, original, avoiding the descent into cheese that most bands of their style fall prey to, and of course delivering some splendid and very immersing compositions, these guys are truly among the genre's underrated rising stars, mixing prog and metal in a way that anybody should be able to appreciate.

Band: Nightingale
Album: Alive Again
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=8909 - PA Link
Samples: See PA link
Fans of neo-prog, this one's for you.  Dan Swano is best known for fronting progressive death metal band Edge of Sanity (who I also highly recommend, albeit not for anyone who can't tolerate growled vocals), but he's involved himself in a multitude of projects, even including neo-prog band Unicorn (of whom I'm not a huge fan, but that's just me).  Nightingale began life as a one-man project inspired by gothic metal band Sisters of Mercy, but after recruiting his brother Dag and completing the full band, Nightingale have taken on an aesthetic not dissimilar to one you might see from a neo-prog outfit (not too surprising, considering Marillion is Dan's all time favorite band): Tons of 70s style keyboards and a sound clearly inspired by classic prog, condensed into an accessible, often more straightforward style of songwriting that bases itself more on emotion than technical abilities.  The songs on Alive Again (with the exception of the fantastic 11 minute epic "Eternal") are generally pretty straightforward, basing themselves around a distorted but not too heavy guitar tone, the heavily present use of keyboards and Dan Swano's OUTSTANDING clean vocals (which really are the highlight of the album, this man can really sing), not really breaking any new ground but accompanying themselves with such powerful delivery from the band that it's difficult not to be drawn in.  This isn't the type of thing I would normally be interested in, but Alive Again is one of those albums I've had a very hard time putting down since I found it used for $5, and if fantastic melodies, hooks and vocals without going overboard on the ambition scale are what make up your idea of a great prog album, you won't be let down.

More to come in time, feel free to comment on even add your own inupt.  If you're not generally a fan of prog-metal (or even if you are and aren't aware of these three albums) I would love to hear what you think... if I can open one person's eyes to the true beauty of this style then I will consider this endeavor to have been a success.



Replies:
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 19:46


Absolutely wonderful Bryan!!!!!

Nice to see some of these great addtitions getting some exposure!!!

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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 19:54

Instead of "don't like" the title could be "don't understand" or "don't pay attention" - that was my case when I started here. Nowadays, I appreciate Symphony X, Isis, Ayreon, Sieges Even, Tool, Voivod, Therion and some others, including Subterranean Masquerade.Smile

The most interesting is that I'm not totally into DT, Opeth and Angra (being the later Brazilians, I recognize they're great but I'd prefer to hear them singing in Portuguese).

 



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Guigo

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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: November 24 2006 at 20:10

It's very interesting thread, Bryan. I know this particular album of Subterranian Masquerade, and I like it. I don't think this is metal in a sense, but if you are going to continue with metal bands which are not exactly metal - this what I will be willing to explore.

And IMO the title of this thread is exactly right, which immediately attracted me to it, as I do not like prog-metal although I know it and (think that) understand quite well.

Thanks. Very good idea indeed.



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carefulwiththataxe


Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: November 25 2006 at 08:29
Don't you, gents, think it's not very good place for this thread? Not many people visiting BLOG section of forums. IMO it should naturally be in recommendations section.
 
 


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carefulwiththataxe


Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 25 2006 at 11:50
Originally posted by eugene eugene wrote:

Don't you, gents, think it's not very good place for this thread? Not many people visiting BLOG section of forums. IMO it should naturally be in recommendations section.
 
 
 
I agree... but it may sink amongst dozens of other threads. Let's see what the starter has to say.Smile


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Guigo

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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 25 2006 at 11:55
The first band I thought of when I saw the title was Ayreon. I'll check out these bands Bryan! Thumbs Up

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: November 25 2006 at 12:03
Been hearing a bit about Dan Swano recently, someone I know nothing about but from all I have read is a very talented guy.  Some of his less heavy stuff seems very intriguing. Might look into Nightingale to get a taste of what he is all about.  

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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 18:50
Regarding the thread location, I share Guigo's concern that it would just get swept under in the "recommended" section, not to mention I intend for it to be something where I post my thoughts on an album and people proceed to read and comment on them, which is pretty much what a "blog" is.  If you guys feel it would do better in the recommendations section, feel free to move it... I'll keep posting either way.

Stoney: I definitely agree about Ayreon, but I think most people here already know Arjen's work.  I'm trying to promote some slightly more overlooked bands in addition to promoting prog-metal as a genre.


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 19:08
 ,  , ,, ,morgion,,blood parade,novembers doom, ,, , ,sirenia,  ,    ,opera ix ,obsession  , ,summoning,primordial,   ,,   , ,eidolon,,galloglass.theatre of tragedy,,domine,oratory,, ,gordian knot


Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 21:42
Thanks Bryan, im definitely not a prog metal head, but i like a few bands and albums, i liked Vilosophe by Manes, what do you think about it?

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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman


Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 21:57
One word: RIVERSIDE! (And ofcourse Ayreon as well).
 
I'll check out Nightingale for shure, since I'm into neo...


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To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica)


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 21:59
Vilosophe is definitely going to get a mention at some point in this thread Guillermo, Manes being unknown on this site is a tragedy that I hope to soon remedy.


Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 22:08
Originally posted by johnobvious johnobvious wrote:

Been hearing a bit about Dan Swano recently, someone I know nothing about but from all I have read is a very talented guy.  Some of his less heavy stuff seems very intriguing. Might look into Nightingale to get a taste of what he is all about.  


Nightingale is a fine way to check out the "other side" of Dan Swano.I also highly recommend his only true solo album Moontower.While it he growls on it(not as much as in Edge of Sanity though),the music is extremely progressive,while still retaining that metal edge.
    

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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 22:10
Great list there Bryan.
I am a big fan of Sub Masq since their EP - Temporary Psychotic State. I warmly recommend them as well.

To add some more suggestions, I was thinking of Psychotic Waltz and the other Graves band, Deadsoul Tribe. I love all albums by PW, but Into the Everflow and Mosquito after that are two good starting points.
As for Deadsoul Tribe, I love A Murder Of Crows much more thatn their other releases, but all are good (besides the first one, which I can't seem to get into).

Another good idea would be Green Carnation and their epic album Light of Day, Day of Darkness. Just read the reviews on the band's page to see.

For those that like Riverside, Indukti is a sure bet.

And to finish this, I'll mention M
ekong Delta - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=1846 (I'd say go with The Music Of Erich Zann)

And of course the beautiful and ethereal Winds which have a cool smooth sound, with violin.
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=1463

I was also thinking of Sculptured, but we'll leave that for another time.


Good thread/Blog, Bryan





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http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds

http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors




Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 22:30
Finally, the topic for me!!!

I have a problem and I need a help form an expertSmile


I love prog rock.
ELP, Tull, King Crimson, GG...well, you get the picture.
 I like some metal.
I used to listen a lot of Metallica, Anthrax, occasional Megadeth and Maiden,  S.O.D., Nuclear Assault, and Halloween.
 But I can't digest prog-metal. I tried. Not too hard, though.

And than I realised: I can't stand combination of deep, brutal distorted guitar power chords and keyboards. No matter how good musicans are. No matter how good lyrics are or intimate is the story, it won't reach me.

Does anybody know any good prog-metal with power-majestic-heavy or preferably trashy overtones?
Guitar/guitar/bass/drums, no keyboards please! With vocals screaming or singing, but no death-growling. Or without vox. Preferably not overproduced (there's nothing worse than a "crystal" soundThumbs Down).

Thanks in advance, experts!


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https://japanskipremijeri.bandcamp.com/album/perkusije-gospodine" rel="nofollow - Percussion, sir!


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 22:45
Assaf, I'll surely be mentioning some of those bands.  I was going to put Indukti in the initial post but decided to leave it at three for now... Winds were another one who are definitely coming up soon, the only problem is that I don't know their work that well.  I'll have to give them another listen before making a post about them, but they surely fit the bill.

clarke: My first post has already given you the first band who would spring to mind given your description... check out Hammers of Misfortune, they're more on the heavy metal end of the spectrum but are pretty much exactly what you're looking for.  Tyr should also be of interest to you, though again they're more on the power metal side.  For something thrashier, Assaf mentioned Mekong Delta and I'll mention them again, argualby the seminal "prog-thrash" band.  Control Denied are another band I could see fitting what you're after.


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: November 26 2006 at 23:13
A couple more...

Band: Indukti
Album: S.U.S.A.R
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=8821 - PA Link
Samples: http://www.indukti.art.pl/audio-english.htm - http://www.indukti.art.pl/audio-english.htm
Are you a fan of Red-era King Crimson and its many followers?  Indukti are the prog-metal band for you.  This mostly instrumental Polish outfit has channeled its evident primary influence through the scope of slow, dramatic and dark prog-metal which even borders on post-rock at times.  Their soaring compositions are some of the most powerful and yet subtle you can find in the genre, their encorperation of the violin certainly serves to add an extra unique dimension to their sound.  Riverside vocalist Mariusz Duda lends his voice to a few songs on S.U.S.A.R, providing certain tracks with his gorgeous melodic side and delivering a bit of extra punch to others with more agressive stylings.  Like Robert Fripp and company they manage to completely avoid stagnating stylistically, delivering seven entirely distinguishable and equally enthralling tracks.  Though there's no mistaking the King Crimson influence here, Indukti avoid being yet another derivative worship band, and with their debut album have established themselves as one of prog-metal's most promising upcoming acts.

Band: Spastic Ink
Album: Ink Compatible
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=5983 - PA Link
Samples: See PA Link
Were it not for the distinctly shred-esque guitar tone and Ron Jarzombek's background in seminal early prog-thrashers Watchtower, it would be easy to mistake Spastic Ink for an experimental jazz-fusion outfit.  Though breathtakingly technical, this instrumental trio never loses its sense of experimental boundary pushing nor its sense of fun, slicing through these eleven pieces with a degree of tightness and technical ability that people who believe John Petrucci to be the be-all-end-all of guitar playing may not be able to fathom at first.  In addition to being one of the most technical albums ever to exist in the metal genre, Spastic Ink utilize ideas like trying to portray a day in the life of a squirrel, trying to do as much with the key of E minor as possible within a 4 minute song, even writing a piece of music designed to synch up with a scene from the movie Bambi, right down to the guitars' key and pitch being identical to those of the voices from the movie.  This album is both utterly astonishing to behold and a lot of fun to listen to, setting itself well above the standard Liquid Tension Experiment type of instrumental prog-metal w**kery.


Posted By: #1floydfan
Date Posted: November 28 2006 at 17:34
hurray spastick ink if any likes spastic ink i would recomend behold... the arctopus well any way this is a good idea i have noticed this also and its a good idea!

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http://www.last.fm/user/jimbobismykitty/?chartstyle=basicrt10 - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/jimbobismykitty.gif -


Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: November 28 2006 at 19:38
As usual Bryan, good comments and good recommendations.

Let me add a band that is unjustifiably unkonwn and I have suggested it to the Prog-Metal team (they are on their list).

This is an Austrian band called Dreams of Sanity. They have released only 3 albums, all of high quality.
In the particluar album I want to tell you about called Komodia, they are fronted by two, yes 2 female vocalists - The maginificent Sandra Schleret (which was their regular vocalist) and Martina Hornbacher. The combination of the two is very nicely done and on several songs (the 5th track - The Ending) they complement each other perfectly. Truly a beautiful album, which is also progressive and not that heavy but still very much rooted in metal. The music, never boring, is quite emotional (in a good way), energetic, rich in sound and should be appreciated by people who like the more symphonic side of metal. (this is not power metal). It does have more pop bits in it, but rest assured it is scarcely noticeable and will not hamper your enjoyment.
This album is related to the Divine Comedy by Dante.

They disbanded in 2002 after only 3 albums,
http://www.the-gothicworld.de/dos/



This band should appeal to metal fans (of the style I mentioned above and others) and also to non-metal people who want to try to taste a bit... It's not too heavy and you won't get hurt, I promise.




DOS the Komodia Lineup


Martina and Sandra


Martina


Sandra



    
    
    
    
    

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http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds

http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors




Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: November 29 2006 at 00:59
    I thank you for this. I am not anti-metal, and I do think that bands like Opeth and Dream Theater belong here. I just don't like their music. I do like Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden. I will definitely check out these recommendations.

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a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com


Posted By: Swanhild
Date Posted: November 29 2006 at 08:03
Thank you all; this kind of thread is one of the reasons why I keep going back to Prog Archives. I tried Alive Again from Nightingale after hearing the last sample of theirs in PA. Alive Again did not chick with me as a whole, but that one song is a gem. I will try Moontower and maybe some of Nightingale's other releases.

    


Posted By: #1floydfan
Date Posted: December 02 2006 at 11:07
i checked out hammers of misfourtune it was a awsome band!!!

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http://www.last.fm/user/jimbobismykitty/?chartstyle=basicrt10 - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/jimbobismykitty.gif -


Posted By: THE_POLE
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 17:12
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Finally, the topic for me!!!

I have a problem and I need a help form an expertSmile


I love prog rock.
ELP, Tull, King Crimson, GG...well, you get the picture.
 I like some metal.
I used to listen a lot of Metallica, Anthrax, occasional Megadeth and Maiden,  S.O.D., Nuclear Assault, and Halloween.
 But I can't digest prog-metal. I tried. Not too hard, though.

And than I realised: I can't stand combination of deep, brutal distorted guitar power chords and keyboards. No matter how good musicans are. No matter how good lyrics are or intimate is the story, it won't reach me.

Does anybody know any good prog-metal with power-majestic-heavy or preferably trashy overtones?
Guitar/guitar/bass/drums, no keyboards please! With vocals screaming or singing, but no death-growling. Or without vox. Preferably not overproduced (there's nothing worse than a "crystal" soundThumbs Down).

Thanks in advance, experts!

This may be a little late, but i would reccomend you try out either 'Blood Mountain' or 'Leviathan' by Mastodon. Very thrashy, heavy, with no keyboards, lots of screaming. Its absolutely insane and their drummer is amazing.
If you want power-majestic-heavy, try Blind Guardian(some would consider it not prog) or Rhapsody.


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http://www.last.fm/user/the_pole/">



Posted By: Selkie
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 18:56
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Finally, the topic for me!!!

I have a problem and I need a help form an expertSmile


I love prog rock.
ELP, Tull, King Crimson, GG...well, you get the picture.
 I like some metal.
I used to listen a lot of Metallica, Anthrax, occasional Megadeth and Maiden,  S.O.D., Nuclear Assault, and Halloween.
 But I can't digest prog-metal. I tried. Not too hard, though.

And than I realised: I can't stand combination of deep, brutal distorted guitar power chords and keyboards. No matter how good musicans are. No matter how good lyrics are or intimate is the story, it won't reach me.

Does anybody know any good prog-metal with power-majestic-heavy or preferably trashy overtones?
Guitar/guitar/bass/drums, no keyboards please! With vocals screaming or singing, but no death-growling. Or without vox. Preferably not overproduced (there's nothing worse than a "crystal" soundThumbs Down).

Thanks in advance, experts!


I'd recommend Watchtower, Mekong Delta, Voivod, Psychotic Waltz, and maybe Spiral Architect. All of those are thrash-derived, have no keys, and more "edge" than keyboard prog-metal.

I also highly recommend Atheist - Unquestionable Presence. The music is a bit heavier than thrash, but still quite melodic and hugely memorable, while being awesomely spastic. The vocals are fairly low in the mix and are much closer to screaming than growling.

With the excpetion of SA, all of those come from late 80's/early 90's, and will probably have the somewhat rawer production you're after.


Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 11 2006 at 08:47

Wow! Thanks for the inputs, guys! I'll give 'em a try for sure.



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https://japanskipremijeri.bandcamp.com/album/perkusije-gospodine" rel="nofollow - Percussion, sir!


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 14 2006 at 20:00
Band: Neurosis
Album: The Eye of Every Storm
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=11860 - PA Link
Samples: http://www.myspace.com/officialneurosis - http://www.myspace.com/officialneurosis
Though their reputation has become increasingly built upon a variety of ferocious, chaotic experimental sludge metal, Neurosis have been departing from their usual style into something altogether different as they've matured musically.  The Eye of Every Storm fully emphasizes the band's use of tension-building atmospherics, without then proceeding to blow them out of the water with an annihilating wall of noise as one of their earlier works would have done.  Beauty is where The Eye of Every Storm's true power lies, with vocalists Steve Von Till and Scott Kelly each providing their own downtrodden, gruff voices to compliment this collection of slow and emotional yet stunningly dynamic compositions, eventually making for an experience that can only be described as intense.  If the heartbreaking and epic post-rock of Mogwai and Red Sparowes, the cryptic and dark prog-metal experimentalism of Tool's Lateralus and a general penchant for awe-inspiring compositions will draw you into an album, Neurosis have crafted a work of art which will refuse to let you breathe as they unleash the deepest, inner most power to be found within human beings into their brooding, minimal compositions.  Though not devoid of metal influence, even the loudest sections work within the same whole as the most melodic ones to produce an utterly awe-inspiring final product.  This is not only the best thing Neurosis have released, but a definite candidate for the best prog album of the new millenium so far.


Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: December 18 2006 at 13:01
Doing a great job there, Bryan! I'd contribute to this thread, but then I have recently begun working seriously on the reviews once again.
 
You should review those Neurosis albums too.


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sig


Posted By: Cygnus.X1
Date Posted: January 04 2007 at 08:09
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Finally, the topic for me!!!

I have a problem and I need a help form an expertSmile


I love prog rock.
ELP, Tull, King Crimson, GG...well, you get the picture.
 I like some metal.
I used to listen a lot of Metallica, Anthrax, occasional Megadeth and Maiden,  S.O.D., Nuclear Assault, and Halloween.
 But I can't digest prog-metal. I tried. Not too hard, though.

And than I realised: I can't stand combination of deep, brutal distorted guitar power chords and keyboards. No matter how good musicans are. No matter how good lyrics are or intimate is the story, it won't reach me.

Does anybody know any good prog-metal with power-majestic-heavy or preferably trashy overtones?
Guitar/guitar/bass/drums, no keyboards please! With vocals screaming or singing, but no death-growling. Or without vox. Preferably not overproduced (there's nothing worse than a "crystal" soundThumbs Down).

Thanks in advance, experts!


Try earlier Fates Warning.


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 04 2007 at 19:07
See the list of extreme poll


Posted By: Palmer Eldritch
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 18:20
Today is the Day, experimental metal from, I think, Nashville.

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"That's Confidence in the System, in easy to swallow propaganda form, a new fast-acting thought control. So have some...today." --- Ben Bland


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: February 15 2007 at 03:05
Sorry I don't really update this anymore, I don't think anyone really cares anyway though.

If you aren't listening to Hammers of Misfortune yet, get on it!


Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 20:25
Originally posted by Palmer Eldritch Palmer Eldritch wrote:

Today is the Day, experimental metal from, I think, Nashville.
 
Good band,Brann Dailor(drums) and Bill Kelliher(guitars) of Mastodon were in that band for awhile and play on my favorite album by them,In the Eyes of God.


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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 20:26
Originally posted by #1floydfan #1floydfan wrote:

hurray spastick ink if any likes spastic ink i would recomend behold... the arctopus well any way this is a good idea i have noticed this also and its a good idea!
 
If you like Spastic Ink try out the band Twisted Into Form.It's pretty complex prog metal.


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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 02 2007 at 21:58
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by #1floydfan #1floydfan wrote:

hurray spastick ink if any likes spastic ink i would recomend behold... the arctopus well any way this is a good idea i have noticed this also and its a good idea!
 
If you like Spastic Ink try out the band Twisted Into Form.It's pretty complex prog metal.
 
Umm...forgot to add Spiral Architect too.Embarrassed


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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 18:06
Progressive metal is the most feeling-less, complex and cold kind of prog that I've heard. Your idea is good, but useless, I think; because it's related with one of the most dissapointing styles of music ever made. What do you think, Bryan and company? 


Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 18:08
I agree with Sircosick. xD I think there's Meshuggah and then a sea of blaaaand

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FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL


Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 18:18
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Progressive metal is the most feeling-less, complex and cold kind of prog that I've heard. Your idea is good, but useless, I think; because it's related with one of the most dissapointing styles of music ever made. What do you think, Bryan and company? 

Just curious, what bands have you heard from the genre?


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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 18:23
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Progressive metal is the most feeling-less, complex and cold kind of prog that I've heard. Your idea is good, but useless, I think; because it's related with one of the most dissapointing styles of music ever made. What do you think, Bryan and company? 


I think that you have much to learn about Prog Metal.Wink


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 18:50
That kind of attitude is exactly what I started this thread to counteract... if all you're going to do is criticize me for backing a bad style of music without even giving a chance to the genre's truly worthwhile, lesser appreciated albums (trust me, I despise Dream Theater and Symphony X as much as anybody on this site), why even bother clicking this thread?


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 03:57
^ are you sure that "despise" is the right word?Stern%20Smile


Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 13:36
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Progressive metal is the most feeling-less, complex and cold kind of prog that I've heard. Your idea is good, but useless, I think; because it's related with one of the most dissapointing styles of music ever made. What do you think, Bryan and company? 
 
Jesus, I wish people like you were available in considerably lesser amounts.


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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 14:06
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Progressive metal is the most feeling-less, complex and cold kind of prog that I've heard. Your idea is good, but useless, I think; because it's related with one of the most dissapointing styles of music ever made. What do you think, Bryan and company? 


i agree its terrible and all the artists should just stick a gun to their head and pull the trigger

wouldn't the world be a better place then?

the same could be said for classical music being cold and off-putting, but oh wait, classical music has produced the most recognizable geniuses in music

that Bach guy, he was so disappointing


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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 17:21
Eh! One by one, guys!

This is exactly what I was waiting for. Now, give me intelligent reasons why prog metal must be listened by  proggers.  You are the experts, not me   :)


Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 17:25
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Eh! One by one, guys!

This is exactly what I was waiting for. Now, give me intelligent reasons why prog metal must be listened by  proggers.  You are the experts, not me   :)
 
Well, why do you listen to music? In general?


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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:07
I listen to music cause it blows my mind and makes me happy or sad, it depends. Moreover, in some cases it's relaxing.

If you think that I talk about Prog metal without any "experience", let me tell you: Liquid Tension Experiment, Dream Theater, among others that I've heard, are bands that makes extremely complex and heavy music, extremely elaborated, and for that reason it lost some emotional touches that are essential to any music composition. Prog Metal could be called "modern prog", and I'm sure you also agree with the prog gold years are gone. Now prog is noise and feeling-less: Prog metal is the perfect example.

I do insist: you're the expert, give me good reasons why a prog newbie must start or not with Progressive Metal.        Tongue


Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:16
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

I listen to music cause it blows my mind and makes me happy or sad, it depends. Moreover, in some cases it's relaxing.

If you think that I talk about Prog metal without any "experience", let me tell you: Liquid Tension Experiment, Dream Theater, among others that I've heard, are bands that makes extremely complex and heavy music, extremely elaborated, and for that reason it lost some emotional touches that are essential to any music composition. Prog Metal could be called "modern prog", and I'm sure you also agree with the prog gold years are gone. Now prog is noise and feeling-less: Prog metal is the perfect example.

I do insist: you're the expert, give me good reasons why a prog newbie must start or not with Progressive Metal.        Tongue



personally, I have no desire to help assist people with things who don't want help


its like asking a friends to help you with your taxes and then telling them to f**k off, just doesn't work


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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:20
^ who said that anyone should *start* with prog metal? It makes sense for a newbie in prog to start with the classics and then proceed through the decades, which involves - among other things - prog metal.


Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:22
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ who said that anyone should *start* with prog metal? It makes sense for a newbie in prog to start with the classics and then proceed through the decades, which involves - among other things - prog metal.
 
Should be ideal, Mike... but in fact, the youngest are more exposed to metal, then prog-metal, etc. Well, at least, it was the way things happened with my 2 sons. Smile


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Guigo

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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:24
I'm not asking for some prog metal reccomendation. Do understand: I got into this thread with clear intentions to start a discussion about why so many people like prog metal, even most of them are absolute fans of Genesis, J-Tull, Crimson, etc. You could say it's simply a matter of likes, but if you like prog metal too much, justifie it. Don't say "metal is best" or thing. Explain why.

Kind Regards


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:27
Ok, then they should explore it backwards ... if someone is serious about ascending from "prog newbie" to "prog master" then they have to listen to all the different genres ... and not just the popular bands of the genres. Smile


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:32
MikeEnRegalia: Yes, still I don't hear some Krautrock. But I've tried prog metal, and I cannot find some taste!


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:44
^ I'm not saying that you have to enjoy prog metal ... of course it's possible that you simply don't like metal. All I'm saying is that people should make sure that they've listened to more than the most popular bands of a genre before they "finalize" their opinion about it.Smile


Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:45
It would be easier for someone who already likes metal to get into Prog Metal. I would recommend Savatage to get into the Prog Metal genre.
Clark2001, I would suggest Savatage "The wake of Magellan" in your case.
For someone who is crossing over from Neo Progressive, I would recommend Riverside.


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 18:55
Are you saying that I have to explore beyond bands like Dream Theater or Liquid Tension? And do you think that are there better prog metal bands? So I'll take seriously the post of WaywardSon  Smile

P.D.: Yet anybody reply me correctly, I think.


Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:28
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Are you saying that I have to explore beyond bands like Dream Theater or Liquid Tension? And do you think that are there better prog metal bands? So I'll take seriously the post of WaywardSon  Smile

P.D.: Yet anybody reply me correctly, I think.
Hell yeah!  Try bands like Enchant, Sieges Even, Heaven's Cry, Ark, Aghora, Riverside, Indukti amongst many others. Big%20smile


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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:37
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

I listen to music cause it blows my mind and makes me happy or sad, it depends. Moreover, in some cases it's relaxing.If you think that I talk about Prog metal without any "experience", let me tell you: Liquid Tension Experiment, Dream Theater, among others that I've heard, are bands that makes extremely complex and heavy music, extremely elaborated, and for that reason it lost some emotional touches that are essential to any music composition. Prog Metal could be called "modern prog", and I'm sure you also agree with the prog gold years are gone. Now prog is noise and feeling-less: Prog metal is the perfect example.I do insist: you're the expert, give me good reasons why a prog newbie must start or not with Progressive Metal.        Tongue

Complexity doesn't bely emotion. It could in fact be argued that complex music is more able to represent complex emotion, no? I don't see anything in LTE or DT (well, I still have a soft spot for DT because I listened to them when I was fourteen!) but plenty of metal musicians pour their heart and soul into it; plenty have wide-ranging topics to discuss in their music: Kayo Dot with astral projection, Mr. Bungle with strange phantasy, Watchtower with... something political, Fantomas with bizarre psychological experimentation...

The golden years of prog over? I don't care one way or the other; there is plenty of beautiful, moving and powerful music being written, prog or no.

I rarely listen to metal any more, and plenty of it's rubbish, but it's not to be ruled out completely by any means.


Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:39
Originally posted by Majestic_Mayhem Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Are you saying that I have to explore beyond bands like Dream Theater or Liquid Tension? And do you think that are there better prog metal bands? So I'll take seriously the post of WaywardSon  Smile

P.D.: Yet anybody reply me correctly, I think.
Hell yeah!  Try bands like Enchant, Sieges Even, Heaven's Cry, Ark, Aghora, Riverside, Indukti amongst many others. Big%20smile


dang JD- I have Riverside out of that list. That's itConfused


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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:54
Complexity doesn't bely emotions certainly: just listen to King Crimson. But maybe because of technology and this modern era, prog metal is extremely arranged, and you can see (or hear, really) the feeling of virtuous musicians as well, but you can't compare Crimson with DC: new context, a new era. For me prog metal sounds also as industrial music  :P

Prog years are over; the early bands were very nice, but now it's over, except a few exceptions.


Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:59
Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Originally posted by Majestic_Mayhem Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Are you saying that I have to explore beyond bands like Dream Theater or Liquid Tension? And do you think that are there better prog metal bands? So I'll take seriously the post of WaywardSon  Smile

P.D.: Yet anybody reply me correctly, I think.
Hell yeah!  Try bands like Enchant, Sieges Even, Heaven's Cry, Ark, Aghora, Riverside, Indukti amongst many others. Big%20smile


dang JD- I have Riverside out of that list. That's itConfused
You're missing a lot.Cry
 
I'll see what I can do.WinkWinkWink


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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 22 2007 at 20:00
I'd say actually that the majority of prog metal is lacking what industrial music excels at: texture. Too many prog metal bands have exactly the same sound, and there are only so many different ways to shred before it gets a little dull..!

That's where Kayo Dot are a happy exception (among others, but these chaps are my favourites, particularly the first record.) There certainly aren't a hundred notes a second in their music, but it's texturally and timbrally very interesting indeed. Also a beautiful horn (I think it's a horn, but my memory may be clouded..!) on their first album.


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:14
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Are you saying that I have to explore beyond bands like Dream Theater or Liquid Tension? And do you think that are there better prog metal bands? So I'll take seriously the post of WaywardSon  Smile

P.D.: Yet anybody reply me correctly, I think.


You don't "have to" do anything ... but if you want to understand what the genre is about, you'll indeed have to go beyond Dream Theater. Wink


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:17
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Complexity doesn't bely emotions certainly: just listen to King Crimson. But maybe because of technology and this modern era, prog metal is extremely arranged, and you can see (or hear, really) the feeling of virtuous musicians as well, but you can't compare Crimson with DC: new context, a new era. For me prog metal sounds also as industrial music  :P

Prog years are over; the early bands were very nice, but now it's over, except a few exceptions.


It's not over, it's just different. There are many "exceptions", you just have to search a little bit more to find them.


Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:49
mike come on now you and I both know prog metal is an inferior form of noise

clearly a meat grinder produces more desirable noise


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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 04:05
^ hey, "Meat Grinder" would be a great name for a metal band! Wink


Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 06:37
Funny you should mention that

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32462

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=47006

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=15480

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=47582


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 06:43
^ I should have guessed that there most be at least half a dozen gore bands with that name ... but it's not among my favorite genre, so I didn't know.Wink


Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:43
I HATE emotion deprived cheese bands like DT who have modern metal production, that is my most hated type of prog alongside prog/power.

I'm sure there are a lot of guys here like me who like metal and prog but hate cheese, if  you're one of those guys I recommend you get some:

Atheist - kickass technical prog metal most importantly with sweet riffs, amazing rythmn section, funky ass drum beats and bass lines. Unquestionable presence is more technical and more metallic, elements is a bit slower and more prog - both highly, highly recommended.
Death - a similar band, highly repsected early death metal band some great stuff but they're a bit heavier, their later stuff (symbolic onwards) is more prog and technical
Coroner - absolutely freaking amazing 80's technical thrash power trio if you're into sweet technical riffs, breakneck speed extremely tasteful (and fast) solos then get some  they aren't on the archives though, I'd recommend punishment for decadence for the metal fan and grin for the prog fan.
Mekong Delta - Amazing band plays thrash infused with classical music (not cheese neo-classical sh*te either, PROPER classical stuff), I recommend visions fugitives
Spastik Ink - Highly amusing instrumental (mostly) very technical prog metal band, interesting stuff, either of their albums are worth a listen.
Mr Bungle - not terribly metal (even though they were THE band that got me into metal) but a bloody excellent and funny band.
Sleep Terror - Awesome Techincal Metal duo, really good stuff has lots of jazz breaks and technical ass riffs in it.

I mean even some earlier thrash stuff is quite progressive if you listen hard

Metallica - master of puppets, I'm not the biggest fan of metallica but master of puppets the song is undeniably progressive in nature and it's arguably their best and most adventurous album.
Megadeth - when you analyse the song structures they are often quite progessive in nature, Rust in piece is highly recommended,  mustaine writes kickass riffs holy wars I believe is quite a progessive song with some kinda technical riffs, kickass song.
Lawnmower deth - obscure band that I've got into recently, really funny RIO type thrash but it's more straightforward - only recommended for metal fans.

God I could be here all day digging and probing and finding prog elements in all the bands I like, I'll just stop now.


Basically I'm equally a fan of prog and thrash these days, I can't speak highly enough of the thrash metal genre there is so much quality music to be had and it's just got this real raw and genuine feel to it most of the time and there are some really good funny bands and real good innovators it's all mostly from the 80's though. So yeah that's the kinda guy these opinions are coming from.



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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:23
I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ... 


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:26
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ... 


logic to me...  compared to emotional prog groups.. DT sound souless, mechanical and overproduced. It's all perception.  Listen to Biglietto per l'Inferno.. then Dream Theater. You'll why we slap that label on them.


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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:48
Ok, so there's only black and white when it comes to emotions ... 


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:08
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ... 


logic to me...  compared to emotional prog groups.. DT sound souless, mechanical and overproduced. It's all perception.  Listen to Biglietto per l'Inferno.. then Dream Theater. You'll why we slap that label on them.
 
Maybe he WON'T. Maybe it so happens that the kind of "emotion" DT produces is more to the taste of what he (or me for sure) likes.... it's YOUR perception... maybe I won't see why you slap that label on them... maybe I will re-afirm my original thoughts...anyway... it seems people that say that kind of stuff haven't heard songs as finally free or the solitary shell section in 6DOIT... no emotion? What is emotion then? A guy wailing and whining in front of a microphone? I don't understand but I guess MY perception of what is emotioanl is just my own and a few more "insane" ones.... hey, you DT fans! We are all emotion-less, machine-lovin' freaks!
 
Yes, emotion can only be black or white? Mmmm, I agree...that makes as much sense as calling DT or prog-metal in general emotion-less....Even the most EXTREME metal like Messhugah, yes, that noise-making-machine, I'm sure those guys play with emotion...you know which emotion? Anger... maybe hate... maybe just fury...whatever, that is ALSO an emotion... To be honest, ELP's music (or K Crimson's in general) seems FAR LESS emotional to me than most prog metal... that music, while good, seems to come directly from the brain, with no toll-booth clearance through the heart...yes, the heart... not only love comes from the heart...


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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:18
Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

I HATE emotion deprived cheese bands like DT who have modern metal production, that is my most hated type of prog alongside prog/power.

I'm sure there are a lot of guys here like me who like metal and prog but hate cheese, if  you're one of those guys I recommend you get some:
 
Let's see.....

Atheist - kickass technical prog metal most importantly with sweet riffs, amazing rythmn section, funky ass drum beats and bass lines. Unquestionable presence is more technical and more metallic, elements is a bit slower and more prog - both highly, highly recommended. But you said you hate emotion-deprived bands... yet you don't count emotion as one of your reccomended band's attributes...Confused
Death - a similar band, highly repsected early death metal band some great stuff but they're a bit heavier, their later stuff (symbolic onwards) is more prog and technical mmmm, the same thing again.
Coroner - absolutely freaking amazing 80's technical thrash power trio if you're into sweet technical riffs, breakneck speed extremely tasteful (and fast) solos then get some  they aren't on the archives though, I'd recommend punishment for decadence for the metal fan and grin for the prog fan.No emotion at all... Pure technique, according to you. So I understand that what you really hate is emotion, don't you?
Mekong Delta - Amazing band plays thrash infused with classical music (not cheese neo-classical sh*te either, PROPER classical stuff), I recommend visions fugitivesWhat is that "neo-classic" sh*t? What is PROPER classical? True PROPER classical would be music straight from the wombs of Mozart or Haydn or Carl Phillip Emannuel Bach... that's the only TRUE classical music, becuase the expression "classical music", if we are to use it properly, refers only to that period of time after the baroque and before romanticism... but we all agree to call all academic music "classical", so I guess either all of these bands play PROPER classical music or they don't
Spastik Ink - Highly amusing instrumental (mostly) very technical prog metal band, interesting stuff, either of their albums are worth a listen.
Mr Bungle - not terribly metal (even though they were THE band that got me into metal) but a bloody excellent and funny band.
Sleep Terror - Awesome Techincal Metal duo, really good stuff has lots of jazz breaks and technical ass riffs in it.
Right.. All of these great bands... but yopu hate emotion deprived metal...Confused

I mean even some earlier thrash stuff is quite progressive if you listen hard
I agree.

Metallica - master of puppets, I'm not the biggest fan of metallica but master of puppets the song is undeniably progressive in nature and it's arguably their best and most adventurous album.Agreeance it's the word.
Megadeth - when you analyse the song structures they are often quite progessive in nature, Rust in piece is highly recommended,  mustaine writes kickass riffs holy wars I believe is quite a progessive song with some kinda technical riffs, kickass song.Don't agree that much... Even Rust in Peace is pure giitar fireworks..good album but it's just thrash...
Lawnmower deth - obscure band that I've got into recently, really funny RIO type thrash but it's more straightforward - only recommended for metal fans.

God I could be here all day digging and probing and finding prog elements in all the bands I like, I'll just stop now.


Basically I'm equally a fan of prog and thrash these days, I can't speak highly enough of the thrash metal genre there is so much quality music to be had and it's just got this real raw and genuine feel to it most of the time and there are some really good funny bands and real good innovators it's all mostly from the 80's though. So yeah that's the kinda guy these opinions are coming from.I understand. But you'd agree you are not a "emotional" band kind of fan, from what you say and from the list you are giving.... so, how come you know DT is a emotion-deprived band?...ConfusedConfused
 
Anyway, I respect your position. But, to use an expression I just love (please, I HAVE the right to use it at least once in my lifetime):.........
 
You just don't get it.
 
Big%20smileWink 



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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:24
Dream Theater doesn't exactly need defending you know, they're unimaginably successful. It's like when people jump to Phil Collins' defense when one bad word is said against him.

OH NO MINORITY OPINIONS!

dream theater hits me as stale music. I'm not going to list the "oh so technical but where's the emotion" generic arguments because they're stupid and I hate it when they're employed to defend crap like Pink Floyd. simply put, DT make music that fails to be progressive enough or metallic enough to engage my tastes from either direction.


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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:27
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

Dream Theater doesn't exactly need defending you know, they're unimaginably successful. It's like when people jump to Phil Collins' defense when one bad word is said against him. They need defending...Imagine DT without some defense...It would be taken out of PA.... (Big%20smileparanoia, nothing else... as much as many poeple would love to see it happen, DT is THE prog-metal band)

OH NO MINORITY OPINIONS! Hey! Long live minority opinions! I'm part of the mninority when it comes to Dowsing Anemone, for example...

dream theater hits me as stale music. I'm not going to list the "oh so technical but where's the emotion" generic arguments because they're stupid and I hate it when they're employed to defend crap like Pink Floyd. simply put, DT make music that fails to be progressive enough or metallic enough to engage my tastes from either direction.
OK


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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:34
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

Dream Theater doesn't exactly need defending you know, they're unimaginably successful. It's like when people jump to Phil Collins' defense when one bad word is said against him. They need defending...Imagine DT without some defense...It would be taken out of PA.... (Big%20smileparanoia, nothing else... as much as many poeple would love to see it happen, DT is THE prog-metal band)

OH NO MINORITY OPINIONS! Hey! Long live minority opinions! I'm part of the mninority when it comes to Dowsing Anemone, for example...

dream theater hits me as stale music. I'm not going to list the "oh so technical but where's the emotion" generic arguments because they're stupid and I hate it when they're employed to defend crap like Pink Floyd. simply put, DT make music that fails to be progressive enough or metallic enough to engage my tastes from either direction.
OK
 
Hardly...


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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:46
i lol @ this thread

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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums


Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:55
Originally posted by OpethGuitarist OpethGuitarist wrote:

i lol @ this thread after that one guy's post.
 
Fixed.


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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:21
Yeah, this is the word I've looking for! SOULESS. Thanks, Micky!


Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:30
jazz fusion is soulless lawls

of course im not dumb enough to actually think that


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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums


Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:31
This blog entry was created by Bryan to recommend some prog metal to people.
 
I don't like seeing it degenerate into a bunch of nasty arguments.It's not a thread where prog metal has to be defended or an ongoing debate on whether prog metal is a valid sub-genre or emotionless music.
 
This is not fair to Bryan so If you all are going to act that way,take it to the Prog Lounge.


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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:32
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

This blog entry was created by Bryan to recommend some prog metal to people.
 
I don't like seeing it degenerate into a bunch of nasty arguments.It's not a thread where prog metal has to be defended or an ongoing debate on whether prog metal is a valid sub-genre or emotionless music.
 
This is not fair to Bryan so If you all are going to act that way,take it to the Prog Lounge.
 
I agree and suggest all of the posts beginning with that scarsick's first post are either deleted or moved somewhere.


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Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:33
Has anyone mentioned Anathema yet?  I know their later albums are less metal, but they're very good.


Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:35
Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

This blog entry was created by Bryan to recommend some prog metal to people.
 
I don't like seeing it degenerate into a bunch of nasty arguments.It's not a thread where prog metal has to be defended or an ongoing debate on whether prog metal is a valid sub-genre or emotionless music.
 
This is not fair to Bryan so If you all are going to act that way,take it to the Prog Lounge.
 
I agree and suggest all of the posts beginning with that scarsick's first post are either deleted or moved somewhere.
 
I am seriously considering it.


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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:35
Originally posted by darkmatter darkmatter wrote:

Has anyone mentioned Anathema yet?  I know their later albums are less metal, but they're very good.
 
I am anticipating their newest album as we... type. Anathema have been called the "heavy Radiohead" and I like that definition.


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Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:37
I just listened to A Natural Disaster for the first time and it was very good.  And now I'm listening to Alternative 4.


Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:00
Ahhh... Don't you just love oversimplified generalizations?...



Back on topic. Should I get Alternative 4 as a starting point for Anathema?



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Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:02
^^ That or Judgement, they're both very good.  Judgement is the lighter album of the two.


Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:05
Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Ahhh... Don't you just love oversimplified generalizations?...



Back on topic. Should I get Alternative 4 as a starting point for Anathema?

 
Eternity is where they changed their sound, so I'd suggest this one, even though it's not their best.


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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:10
Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Ahhh... Don't you just love oversimplified generalizations?...



Back on topic. Should I get Alternative 4 as a starting point for Anathema?

 
Knowing your tastes, I think you'd appreciate A Natural Disaster more.


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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:17
Thanks guys. I'll write those albums down and start hunting.

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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 16:29
I appreciate Bryan's efforts to broaden non-PM fans' exposure to, and notions of, prog metal.
 
Some of the stuff he sent me in the past may not have converted me to a "headbanger," but at least I reached a level of understanding where I could say "I still don't care for it, but parts of it were pretty good (for me, usually the often slower opening passages, before the vocals come in), and I can see why it's called "progressive" metal, why it's here, and why people might like it.
 
I will also check out some of the stuff you've posted here, with an open mind. If I like it, I'll let you know -- in this thread. If I don't like it -- well, then it's just not to my taste.
We all have some sort of "borders" as to what we like (in art, and other things) but who knows? Some of the stuff you've listed may fall within my borders (or close enough to them that stretching those borders to encorporate the music would not entail my having to become someone else).Ermm
 
SmileHope that made sense! Again, Bryan, I appreciate your bridge-building efforts for the greater good of our oft-divided community.Clap
 
Maybe I won't make it across the bridge, but I'll give it an honest effort. If "scary" sounds make me retreat back to my safe and familiar side, in the end, I promise not to stand there and hurl insults and gibes at the dark-clad folks on the other shore. Wink
 
(Been there -- done that. Wasn't good for me, or anyone else!)LOL


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 00:57
Well Bryan, I downloaded http://www.submasq.com/mp3/sixstrings.mp3 - SIX STRINGS TO COVER FEAR

by the first band you listed, and I was honestly really digging
the majestic, melodic, mellotronny sound -- until the darned growling vocals came in!Pinch

Sorry, I still find such unnatural "singing" to be very silly -- it just plain ruined it, for me. Had to turn it off -- i can't see myself ever getting into such vocals.Confused

I'll try more of your list, though I think "warning -- contains growling" might be a good label to stick on such CDs!Ermm


I think any prog fan not put off by growling should give it a go, though.Smile

Edit: I just spot-checked the rest of the track, and while the music gets a fair bit heavier/faster (that double kick bass thing), there are also some sections of real beauty and delicacy.Thumbs%20Up

But those vox -- aieeeeee! Torture! Pinch

If you read this, can you point me (and other like souls) to some of the stuff that's growling-free?

I know the words don't really matter to some folks here, but lyrics are quite important to me, too -- if too dark, I won't like the track.


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:06
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

Well Bryan, I downloaded http://www.submasq.com/mp3/sixstrings.mp3 - SIX STRINGS TO COVER FEAR

by the first band you listed, and I was honestly really digging
the majestic, melodic, mellotronny sound -- until the darned growling vocals came in!Pinch

Sorry, I still find such unnatural "singing" to be very silly -- it just plain ruined it, for me. Had to turn it off -- i can't see myself ever getting into such vocals.Confused

I'll try more of your list, though I think "warning -- contains growling" might be a good label to stick on such CDs!Ermm


I think any prog fan not put off by growling should give it a go, though.Smile


I'll take a download...  I have nothing against PM in general.. just haven't found anything that has 'grabbed' me. And it's fun to poke fun at. As far as growling goes.. LOL....   no different than the overwrought vocal styles of RPI.  Just taste I guess Big%20smile


-------------
The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:13
^ Eh Micky? RPI? Wha?Confused

-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:17
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

^ Eh Micky? RPI? Wha?Confused


hahhahah.... I love my abbreviations...

Rock progressivo italiano.  the old ISP. errr...   italian symphonic prog. 


-------------
The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:39
^
Yeah, it took me a while to not mind and start to enjoy someone like Francesco Di Giacomo. I must admit it's the singing/lyrics in many forms of prog, including Progmetal, that can sometimes diminish the music for me, i.e. Riverside (who I like a lot), Cynic (who I don't). Consequently the heavy stuff I like has little or no vocals..







Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:46
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^
Yeah, it took me a while to not mind and start to enjoy someone like Francesco Di Giacomo. I must admit it's the singing/lyrics in many forms of prog, including Progmetal, that can sometimes diminish the music for me, i.e. Rivertree (who I like a lot), Cynic (who I don't). Consequently the heavy stuff I like has little or no vocals..


same here... of the RPI biggies.. Banco took me to longest to get into. ( even more than Le Orme LOL) for that reason.  I remember a similar thread Mike did a year or so ago.. where again he tried to get.. hahha.. Peter and I into PM.  It just isn't our thing I guess... but all ribbing aside... I think I can speak for him as well. We did listen with open minds.


-------------
The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:47
Well, re your comparison to Italian prog vocals, then, Michelangelo, I'd have to disagree.

I find PFM vocals to be rather nice, Banco vox to be dynamic, and even the intense Latin vox of Deus Ex Machina to be musical, but I find growled vox to be very irritating, and just plain (unintentionally) funny. I think these bands seriously limit the possible extent of their audience when they employ them. (My wife -- kids too -- and friends would think I was NUTS if I played that stuff for them, and said I liked the singing. I honestly can't imagine anyone I know personally enjoying -- or even tolerating -- that.)

Again, I'm not saying you'd have to be nuts to like it ("different strokes," & all), but I'd need to be someone else to get into it. I have enough trouble with screamers like Axel Rose & the guy from ACDC (make me unable to enjoy the otherwise pretty good, ass-kickin' tunes), but growling, to me, takes it to a whole new level of pain -- the lowest level of hell, perhaps. If there are angel choirs in heaven, and demonic choruses in hell, the latter must sound just like the above vocals.
Not at all pleasant, shall we say....Ermm

Ermm I hope I don't get in trouble in certain quarters for this post -- I'm just being honest.

Again, there was some good, even pretty/uplifting music on there, though -- well-deserving of the "prog" label.Smile




-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:57
Thanks to Peter for making an honest effort to check out some of the stuff I mentioned... Subterranean Masquerade do have growled vocals on certain songs, although several of their tracks are growl-free as well, which made me a little less reluctant to list them.  But anyway, knowing that there are actually some people using this thread to help them find new bands is refreshing to see in the wake of the obligatory blind genre bashing that I'd hoped the thread could avoid falling into.

If sircosick or whatever his name is really cares to hear some undeniably emotional prog-metal, I strongly advise that he check out the Neurosis album I recommended on page 2, though I somehow doubt he's actually interested at all in recieving genuine advice out of this thread.



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