Abacab
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35613
Printed Date: May 03 2024 at 17:57
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Abacab
Posted By: Moogtron III
Subject: Abacab
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 05:57
|
Greetings from a nicely decorated bomb shelter. It's a calm saturday morning in Belgium. The weather forecast predict snow storms in our country on monday. But that's nothing compared to the storm that I expect to appear in this thread . You've seen it in the title: I thought it was time to talk about that wonder of '80's prog, that album full of delight, that album where Genesis proved themself to be truly progressive once again. Ladies and gentleman... meet Abacab!
So... what's your favourite track? I split Dodo and Lurker, because maybe people would like Dodo more if there was no Lurker. Nice little animal though.
I'm gonna hide in my shell again... Shelter... A bit of a coward, I admit, afraid for the openly hostile reactions. Whoa, there they are, the screaming Abdabs, the Anti-Abacabs
 , gotta go....... |
Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 06:34
No negativity from me
 ; i went with Me and Sarah Jane. You shouldn't have split Dodo/Lurker, that song is great like it is. I would've voted for it. What I cannot understand with Abacab is how they put the crappiest song ever there (Who Dunnit) and have Submarine as a B-side song for one the singles. I mean why didn't they put Submarine on the album instead of Who Dunnit. Submarine at least is a good song (I lile it a lot
 );if we Genesis listeners/fans were/are meant to take Who Dunnit as a joke, then this is the worst joke ever! |
Moogtron III wrote:Posted By: rocknrobin
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 06:37
|
this is a trick question, there aren't any good songs on abacab, so its impossible to pick a favorite ???
------------- rock'n robin |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 08:20
I feel sorry about the Dodo / Lurker split already.
 I'm guilty of progressive manipulation / modification.Who Dunnit crappy? Granted, I think they made it as a joke, like The Lurker, so it's quite tongue-in-cheek (Tony Banks was wearing a snorkel on stage when he played it: that says something), but I think it's totally original and I like it a lot!
Submarine: I totally agree! Glad to have it in digital form now (Genesis Archives Volume 2).
 |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 08:28
Sounds like this kind of logic:
Maior: Its impossible to pick a favourite on an album which has no good songs
Minor: There is no good song on Abacab
Conclusion: I can't pick a good song on Abacab.
It's the minor that isn't right: there are lots of good songs on Abacab
|
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 08:35
|
I'm guilty of the same thing on the Clutching At Straws thread by splitting up "Warm Wet Circles" and "That Time Of The Night", so I can't fault you because I see your logic. Then again, logic has never been a strong trait of mine. I love the "Dodo/Lurker" combo a lot and probably one of my favorite Genesis songs. Period. As for the album, I think it was the very first one I bought back when I was a kid after seeing "Abacab" on MTV (The VERY first video I ever saw on MTV, come to think of it.) As much as I love the album, I have to side with Cristi in why they put "Who Dunnit" on there. I have to skip that song every time. E ------------- 
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 08:53
For me it was also the Abacab video which put me on the Genesis track.
And logic and music, they don't always mix very well, do they?
 |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 08:59
Nope! I try to explain it to my wife whenever she spots all of my prog purchases in the bank statement, but it doesn't keep her from furling her brow at me.  One of the dark horses from Abacab that I like is "Keep It Dark". Has sort of a warped LP sound to it, but I love the chorus. Always enjoyed "Man On The Corner", too. E -------------
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 09:02
|
Yeah, no need to split Dodo/Lurker IMO. Lurker is a bit silly but it ends quite triumphantly, with plenty of symphonic credentials. It gets my vote, but only just. Me & Sarah Jane is an excellt track too, and is a good example of what post Duke Genesis could have been like. Despite the drum machine, Banks built a constantly changing and very emotional piece of music around that simple beat. It was a true and effective blend of old and new Genesis. Shame the rest of the album is a steaming crock of horse sh!t, but there you go.  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 09:15
|
Who Dunnit? gets no respect. It's very weird and off the wall, and that's why I like it. Beats the hell out Misunderstanding from Duke. Sounds like Phil is singing Was it you or was it me or was it XTC. And weknow weknow weknow Eno.
I liked this album when it came out. It was a bit of different direction for the band. I started to lose interest in Genesis with the Mama album, which I never bought. My last LP would be Invisible touch. I did get the CD for Calling All Stations recently, because it was available dirt cheap. I suppose one day I will have to complete my CD collection with the Mama album, Invisible Touch, and that other one from the '80's I've never heard. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:34
| Abacab is a controversial album, and imho is arguably the patchiest, least consistent album they've ever recorded. That doesn't mean it's their worst, though, there are a few gems. The title track, Dodo/Lurker, Like It Or Not, Keep It Dark and Me and Sarah Jane all stand up, but almost all of them sound better in live versions. However, 'Dodo' gets my vote here. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:36
|
So many good songs to choose from.
I normally vote for the sublime Abacab, but this time I'll go with Whodunnuit? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:38
Did you know that Genesis themselves consider Keep It Dark their best song on the album? Also one of my favourites, together with "Man On The Corner"
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:42
Agreed! Me & Sarah Jane proved that there was room for a progressive '80's Genesis.
As for the drum machine: Genesis was one of the few bands that could make a good use of it, on Me & Sarah Jane but also with Duchess on the Duke-album. But I do think it's a pity that Collins didn't do so much of his sensational drumming anymore through the years
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:46
Yes, it's as if people can't accept a Genesis which isn't 100% serious all the time. Whodunnit has its charms.
I personally also like the post-Abacab albums to a certain extent, though I don't find them as good as the older stuff, Abacab included. Still, I like to listen them every now and then.
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:48
Personally, I do think they have a sort of unified sound on the album, but on the other hand, the songs are all very different, I agree. It's more fragmentary than most of their other albums. I do wonder how that comes.
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 10:54
Okay, it's time to speak out for myself. I like all of the songs of the album. In terms of composition, I think Abacab, Me And Sarah Jane and Keep It Dark are the best songs.
But apart from that, believe it or not, I have a soft spot for the last three songs on the album: Man On The Corner, Like It Or Not and Put Another Record On. They have a sort of intimacy and melancholical feel that is typical for late seventies, early eighties Genesis.
But like you, Snow, I'll go this time with one of the most underrated Genesis songs: Whodunnit!
|
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 11:15
Three votes for Who Dunnit. I don't get it.
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 12:23
Yeah Duchess is a great song too; simple but full of feeling. Genesis were one of few prog bands who could write simple songs that 'worked' alongside their more complex offerings. 'Afterglow' and 'Undertow' spring to mind, as do 'Timetable' and 'Chamber of 32 Doors' The drum machine was originally just a 'writing tool' that Banks was keen on using, but with all the new wave stuff going on around them, and the increased use of electronics in pop they thought it a good idea to include it in some songs. In all fairness they didn't use it excessively, and it works very well on Mama. This track seems to divide people, but I like it's cold, atmospheric simplicity. It was in the charts at about the same time that I first heard 'Dance on a Volcano' on the Radio 1 Friday rock show. I was hooked on Genesis from that point, but only really got to grips with a few of their 80's songs. I agree about Phils drumming taking a nosedive after Duke. Tragic! When you listen to his performances on Los Endos, In that Quiet Earth, Dukes End etc, it seems unbelievable he would want to simplify things to the extent that he did. It wasn't just style it was his distinctive sound too. Using synth drums on Invisible ouch was a bad move. It was a homogenised drum sound, and could have been anyone playing. Oh well, at least we have all those brilliant albums recorded between 1970 and 1980 to indulge in.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 17:03
It's like with olives. You either love them or hate them. No middle ground
 |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 17:10
|
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 18:08
|
Sorry to say I agree about Collins- he simply doesn't put himself out in the drum department on most of their post Duke output. It's those syn drums (and the typically 80s production effects) which is perhaps my biggest issue with Invisible Touch- the title track and Anything She Does aside (which I personally hate), I can tolerate and even enjoy most of the rest of it. The sounds used are quite dated now though, imho.
Mama is terrific though- one of their best 80s tracks, imho.
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 18:22
The drum sound dated? Yeah, probably, but I seldom hear those things. I'm a bit of a timeless person, I suppose
. But we agree on the most important stuff. Mama is very good, Collins should drum more, and become more progressive
.Anything She Does is the worst song on the album. Invisible Touch: the live videoclip is the most programmed thing I ever saw
 I still like most of the album, though I musn't listen to it too much. |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 18:29
|
I went for No Reply At All.
People actually like Who Dunnit? ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 19:01
| Dodo ..although the live version on Three Sides Live is much better than the studio version IMO. |
Posted By: Bastille Dude
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 20:47
|
I've loved Abacab since it came out, It doesn't really have any bad songs on it IMO. I voted for Keep It Dark since no one else has, I'm glad to see Abacab getting the respect it deserves.
------------- DEATH TO FALSE PROG! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 17 2007 at 22:51
| It's rather strange to see an "alternative" group covering a supposedly "passe" Genesis song. I see Abacab as being another tune that would work well being covered by a guitar based band. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 00:15
| One of the best recorded and most elegant pop records of the 80s.. the title cut is my favorite. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 00:43
Abacab is really the start of the weak era in Genesis, though is not a bad album, just not a GREAT album like Genesis released up until then... I think they got back on track (at least on ABACAB track) in We can't dance, but the two albums in between these two are just... ....Well, the best track is "Dodo" and we could also mention "Abacab" and a couple more. The main problem with the album is that it contains Genesis' second-worst song ever, "Who Dunnit"  ...an atrocity that has the worst lyrics in the band's career, but that, incredibly (and I MEAN the "incredibly" part) is not musically as HORRENDOUS as "Illegal Alien" from GENESIS. Well, "Who Dunnit" takes a couple of good points from the album... But other than that sorry excuse for a song, the album is enjoyable. As are almost ALL Genesis' albums other than INVISIBLE TOUCH (Yes, even GENESIS would be decent but... Illegal Alien...Man!)...------------- 
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 04:12
|
I'm going to use Erik's way of answering several posts in one post:
Zappa88: Hard to believe, I understand that, but yes, there are people who like Whodunnit, and I happen to be one of them. It's original, and somehow the song seems to be working... for a small group of people, and the rest of the Genesis afficionados hate it. Maybe it's Genesis' most controversial song. Although, it's only controversial if there's some sort of 50%-50% balance. In the case of Whodunnit, 95% seems to hate it, and 5% seems to love it
BastilleDude: Yes, I'm also glad that Abacab has its fair share of fans!
TheT: For me Abacab is the last of the really good albums, so I'm with you with the weaker albums, only that it starts with me with Genesis, the yellow eponymous album, so for me the weaker albums start one studio album later than with you. I understand that Abacab is a disappointment for many people. On the other hand: I think this album, even if it sounds very different from the old stuff, still retains the old Genesis magic, and in this thread I can see that there are quite some people who like Abacab as well.
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 06:02
3 people have voted for 'Who Dunnit'
I don't mind Illegal Alien.At least it goes along at a nice pace.Collins fake South American accent is the only bad thing about it IMO.
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 07:20
|
I prefer Invisible Touch actually. And Genesis is also alittle better than Abacab. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 07:22
|
"Dodo " is a good song - imagine how PG would handle it!
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
|
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 19:17
|
Dodo, followed by Abacab. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 18 2007 at 20:03
That fake accent is probably the worst thing to ever happen to prog-music since Paris Hilton sung in the last Kayo Dot release...wait.... anyway, that thing is so phony, so fake, so INSULTING. And not to mention the atrocious "funny photograph" of the three members wearing fake moustaches and wigs...Man! Atrocious.... -------------
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 06:26
Agreed, It's f***ing awful and thats putting it mildly. It's very dated too, in terms of the humour they were attempting. Long gone are the days when lampooning national stereotypes was deemed funny. Some people could be really offended. I'm not a huge advocate of the PC movement, but when you see the vid for 'Illegal Alien' you have to concede they have a point; when white middle class ex public school boys, with no understanding of what they're singing about at all, dress up as Mexicans trying to enter another country illegally, it simply hi-lights the reality gap between ultra rich rock stars and the real world.. That said, they're a great band I love em..!  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 07:09
|
I'm amazed at the votes for Dodo and Who Dunnit. Both are exactly what I and most of my friends think are examples of the Collins lead demise of Genesis. I quite like Abacab as a pop tune and Me and Sarah Jane isn't bad. ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 07:49
I like Illegal Alien and the video too. Didn't offend me and I don't care if it offends anyone else really. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 07:50
I don't understand, Dodo is an an excellent track.
And Ababcab is more a rock track with prog overtones. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:11
I always liked Illegal Alien, both the song and the video. I never realised that people would find them offensive.
 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:13
Yes I take my words back......what i really mean is that it seems pretty inoffensive to me and I think people are just too sensitive these days. If some Meican on this forum is offended, can we here from you? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:25
It reminds me of Carl Barks, the guy who wrote thousands of pages for Walt Disney studios, and who invented Scrooge McDuck, Gyro Gearloose, Duckburg etc. He was always writing these adventures where the Duck family went abroad, to visit foreign countries, countries that really exist as well as mythological countries. He always made jokes about the local population, just like Goscinny did with Asterix. Lots of times people found his jokes offensive, like when he wrote a story about the Ducks going to a country where the population looked like Mexicans. They were sleeping all day under their sombreros, just like the Mexicans in the Lucky Luke stories. Some people found that very offensive. Barks sighed and said that there is little left to laugh about in this old, tired world.
I thought always considered I.A. pretty innocent as well. Are there really people who know other people who were offended by it? I'd like to know that.
 |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:50
|
^ No, I dont know anyone who actually was offended by it. What I said was that some people could be offended by it. It's very easy to offend people these days and it seems there is a whole industry and infrastructure surrounding it. Faceless panels of people connected with government telling us what we can and cant say week to week. The point I was making, was that humour has changed in such a way that sending up national stereotypes is not the done thing in the mainstream these days. I agree that some people are too sensitive, and I'm sure Genesis' agenda was innocent when making the song/video, but the fact that it does make fun of some kind of Mexican stereotype dates it badly as a piece of music. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:53
|
I would say the song is still relevant. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 08:58
|
^ Politically relevant maybe, but arguably not politcally correct. It's not the subject matter, it's the comedy Mexican impressions.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 09:00
Personally I strive to be politically INcorrect, but I understand what you is saying bro.... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 09:29
Good on you!  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 19 2007 at 19:33
|
I am not ashamed to say that I have a soft spot for "Abacab". It was the first Genesis album that I bought - like so many others - on the strength of the title track. I actually think all the tracks have some merit and for me "Dodo/Lurker" stands out along with the melancholy "Man on the Corner". Maybe not their best album, but certainly a lot better, imo, than some of their later recordings. -------------  "Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 00:15
 |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 04:45
|
Excellent album, a lot better than some of the drivel dished up from all the prog band wannabees these days.
For those who don't understand ' who dunnit?" - Get over it, it is just the boys stuffing around to have a good time.
Brave new direction by Genesis and to be fair every album of theirs was always a new direction. Can't compare ' mama' album or IT with Abacab, so there is no point in all the PC's bashers stating that Abacab spelt the end of their prog values - bul%%$*!!
Abacab for me the best song on the album, along with Dodo and Me and sarah Jane.
Great poll! ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 04:48
Hmm.. all the closet Abacabers are coming out  |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 14:59
Same here, so I'll vote Dodo. ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 20 2007 at 18:13
Atavachron: I'm glad there are so many of us. And the message of this thread is: if you like Abacab, be proud of it 
Melomaniac: Poor Lurker, I'm afraid he's close to extinction because of me.
 |
Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 01:12
|
Genesis post-1977 spark a LOT of negative reaction. I do understand why in a lot of cases. Crappy sound, thin (yet guitar and bass-obliterating) synthesizers, awful over-loud gated electronic toms, etc. (already ready to vomit).
I'll admit though...I QUITE like the title track to ABACAB. It's very guitar-based, which is a good thing for me. And the sound is good too. Phil lays down a pumping groove. It stands by itself as a great track in a sea of so-so songs.
|
Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: March 21 2007 at 11:44
| Dodo |