Mystic Fred... what stuff? Budget hi-fi
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36180
Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 11:10
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Topic: Mystic Fred... what stuff? Budget hi-fi
Posted By: Flyingsod
Subject: Mystic Fred... what stuff? Budget hi-fi
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 23:22
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Hey man, How ya doing? Back in the desert isle audiophile thread you said "BTW you don't have to spend thousands to get a good system,
there are some brilliant budget equipment to be had out there,
especially the British makes, we still lead the world in inexpensive
hifi equipment!"
I'd be interested in knowing what you believe some of this brilliant budget equipment is. I did my speaker experiment and the results kinda amazed me. I figured there would be changes in sound from speaker to speaker but not such drastic changes. I'm looking for a place to post the results on the net so unbelievers can hear for themselves. I'm most likely going to be building my own equipment because of finances but I'd definatly like to see what stuff you had in mind with that statement. Thanks I also of course would love to hear reccomendations from anyone else on budget gems of the audio world. ------------- This space intentionally left blank |
Replies:
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 04:32
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Mystic fred is true indeed. English make the best budget musical devices: -Rega Planar 3 turntable -Nad and/or Rotel electronics (CD + amp) -Mission bookshelf speakers + Atacama feet -QED cables Other great english electronics brands (but more expensive): Rega, Naim, Creek, Arcam. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 07:51
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hi Carlos! pleased you asked me that question - as for suggestions, yes you don't have to spend thousands (pounds sterling) to get a good system -
if you insist on new hifi components it is still true, though buying used items will slash costs considerably.
Cambridge Audio do a good range of CD players, latest are the Azur 640 C Version 2 (£250) is getting good feedback, i recently had one and upgraded to a Rega Apollo (new £500 got it used for £350).
Rotel, Nad and Cambridge Audio do a good range of amps such as the CA Azur 740A for £500 new, or they do a 6.1 AV reciever for £269.00, the Azur 540R Version 2 (100wpc on stereo), which i have and must say is brilliant - i also have Mission Cyrus 2 amps made in 1986 i bought for £200.
KEF, Linn Kan and B&W speakers have a good reputation and can be picked up for around £200 used. I have a pair of Castle Severn 2SE speakers which were £699 new but i got on ebay for £250.
As for turntables, as Olivier says the Rega Planar 3 is an amazing player, mainly due to its excellent arm, the Rega RB300, can get used for around £150. i recently upgraded mine for a Roksan Xerxes turntable using a similar arm the Rega RB250, with fabulous results!
i also have a Linn Sondek which is expensive new but can be picked up for a few hundred pounds on ebay, especially in the USA i've seen them.
If you buy from UK sellers obviously shipping costs are a bit of a down side and the voltage has to be adjusted down to 110v for USA, but the results will be worth it! Also the Kimber cable company is based in Utah - Carlos you may well get your cables cheaper than i can - though i recently bought a pair of used 8TC speaker cables from a guy in Canada for £160.
 http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/bgintro.html - http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/bgintro.html
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/default.php - http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/default.php
http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA3192036607803COIVGWGJXGGNHSGO/article-viewindex-storytotell1.htm - http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA3192036607803COIVGWGJXGGNHSGO/article-viewindex-storytotell1.htm
http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA3192036607803COIVGWGJXGGNHSGO/article-Separates-Hi-fi-system-guide-sepsugg.htm - http://www.russandrews.com/lookup/1/region/UK/currency/GBP/customer_id/PAA3192036607803COIVGWGJXGGNHSGO/article-Separates-Hi-fi-system-guide-sepsugg.htm
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 02:18
| I'd not recommend Cambridge audio, either on amp or CD. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 05:43
why not...?
 i tried a NAD and a Rotel, the CA's just blew them away.............but the Rega Apollo is in a different league.
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oliverstoned wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 06:12
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Yes, Cambrige made progress recently on Cd players, however i'm pretty sure Nad/rotel does better. On amplifiers, Cambridge is clearly to avoid: coloured, soft in the pejorative way. Of course, Rega, Naim Arcam Creek CD players are better... |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 06:16
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I really like Cambridge amps.They seem to warm up the sound of digital media short of buying a tube amp. I use Cambridge in my 'studio' for playback from my Korg D8 portastudio. -------------  Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 06:53
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I was really happy to get rid of my one, several years ago... Nad warms up the sound as well, but is far more musical and performant. Cambridge is not the worst crap, but it's really not terrible. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 13:59
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^ ,,like you say Olivier, Cambridge have really come on a long way recently, much better than their earlier stuff.. toob still on my shopping list!
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 14:28
Yes, tubes are essential! I'm on big power cables these days, just bought the biggest Wireworld, 300€ on ebay instead of 1200€. 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 20:51
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^ blimey
that beats my £75 kimber ...
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Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: April 01 2007 at 23:10
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Thanks for the replies. I will definatly be building my own speakers and almost definatly be building my own tube amp (if I decide I have to go tube). Making my own TT though might be a long time fantasy that will never come true. I'm having a serious look at that Rega table for now. It's between that and rehabing/modifying an old AR tt. Thanks for the links Btw. Oh and I will probably trying DIY cables as well. Supoosedly they sound 99% as good as the manufactured ones for pennies on the dollar. Although I have doubts I will be able to hear any difference at all. ------------- This space intentionally left blank |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 02:02
Probably. Im also buying 2 Synergistic research (first model), 200€ each, instead of 450€. A good tip: you can cut the power cables to make 2 or 3 with one (as long as there's no filtering boxes). For instance, i'm about to do 3 short cables, cutting my Wireworld. So eventually, it makes about 100€ per cable (without plugs)!! You can also put some Furutech Rhodium plugs, which upgrades a lot.  |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 03:19
BTW, i remind you of the brands to go for: Jolida, Cayin, Prima luna, Kora, Antique sound lab, Melody. Cayin  |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 09:24
I've got my Wireworld power cable. What a cable...it completely changed my sound. It reminds me of the day i had my first good speaker's cable; There's so much more image, mateer, low, high, dynamic...incredible; And this is just one cable on the subwoofer, i'm about to do that on all the system. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 09:27
And which cable do you have in your walls ... is that also modified? *THAT* would seriously impress me! Sorry, just couldn't resist ... carry on! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 11:34
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I've got "ordinary" wire, but 4mm2 (thicker than the normal 2.5) for my sub. But indeed, it's possible and better to wire the wall plugs in topcable until the home counter. In my case that'd be not too expensive cause i'm just above the counter, 1m only. But the issue is the thickness of the top cables and the hole i did in the ground is not large enough. And yes, that would be better if wire that way until the power plant. But we know that's not possible, but replacing the cables on the devices is possible and produce an incredible effect... I can also replace my ordinary/good quality Legrand wallplugs by Rhodium Furutech wallplugs...  Furutech Rhodium power plug:  |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 11:47
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But these are not budget power cables  Budget musical power cable: Supra "Lorad". Count about 15€/meter. i still use that on my filters and that would be a budget solution to wire in 2.5 mm2 between the wallplugs and the counter.   |
Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: April 03 2007 at 20:17
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I'm an Electrician by trade. It looks like fun but I really hope my ears are not so sensitive as to casue a rewiring of my house... We also install backup generator systems where I work. Also line conditioning equipment of various sorts. The power from our backup generators is much cleaner than Power company power. Maybe after your done getting the home wiring in tip top shape you can call us to come out and set you up a home generator. I'll work free, just provide me with a way to kick back and play some good tunes at the end of the day :) And Thankes Oliverstoned for keeping with the theme of Budget with those Supra Lorad cords. I really think I can get that kind of performance making my own though. It will be a while before I even attempt it though. Im concetrating on a turntable atm and speakers next. ------------- This space intentionally left blank |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 04 2007 at 02:41
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As an electrician, you should install some separate electric circuits for your system. My new Wireworld cable is wonderful!! I'm cutting it in pieces today to make 3 with one. |
Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: April 04 2007 at 15:12
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I've really no idea what you're all talking about. But one day if I win the lottery or something I'll get you to produce me the finest stereo system, Oliver. If you're up for that of course? ------------- 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 04 2007 at 15:54
| Of course, call me when you'll have 1 billion of euros of budget! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 02:29
That's a very nice picture. Of course the diameter of the cable is impressive ... but I wonder how it affects the sound. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 05:32
It's "musical", so the power doesn't just oscillate 50 or 60 times a second, it does it whilst whistling a tune -------------  "Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 05:56
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^ so the cable converts AC to DC? I thought that the power supply was responsible for this job?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 06:03
but can it convert AC/DC into worthwhile music?
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 06:10
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^ Even Less.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 06:14
What?? You found a boy washed up on a Norfolk Beach?
You're a martyr? You were born to stack shelves?
What? Non comprende,
 |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 06:22
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------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 08:36
Funny. No it's not a thick cable. My new Wireworld is thick, a double 4mm2. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 08:59
^ I stand amazed. Although I'm willing to bet that the cable inside the plug connector of the amp is much thinner.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 09:40
| You can upgrade the inner cable as well, like you can re-wire your speaker. There's no limit in optimization. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 09:55
^ wow, I wouldn't have thought that people would go that far ... 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:30
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People go that far: Furutech Rhodium power plug: 99€  ...and 87€ for the other side: 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:36
I don't think so, even with the best filters!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:37
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The problem for me is that electric circuits are like chains, and they are only as strong as their weakest link. So making one of the links 100x stronger is futile if there's only one weak link. But these cables and plugs look great! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:43
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I know it's hard to explain in theory...but the effects are really incredible, like changing of device. You can also add device-plug power plug, rhodium wall socket and even special fuses!    Furutech Cd Demagnetizer machine  |
Posted By: Flyingsod
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 21:57
That point isn't entirely true. This isn't true for chains but, you can make a circuit stronger and more capable as a whole by increasing the capacity of a 'link'. In industrial applications we sometimes have to use a conductor size larger than normal for a very long run. This is accomplished by upsizing the conductor in the middle long portion of the run but leaving the line end and the load end at normal size. I don't know if power/speaker/interconnect cables would make a significant audio change or not. I'm no where near worrying about that! (I have mismatched tweeters atm....) I'm just saying that it is certainly within the realm of possibility because electrical circuits are not physical chains where the weakest link is not affected by the other links. They are rather dynamic things where each link does indeed affect the other links. ------------- This space intentionally left blank |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 02:49
| All this talk about changing the power cable. This is in the realms of hi-end tinkering., hardly in the domain of the budget enthusiast. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 03:15
| The Supra cables are really affordable. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 03:15
Indeed, industrial applications use very big cables. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 03:53
I'm just saying that a few meters of high diameter cable can't "repair" whatever the dozens of meters of low quality cable in their walls did. Personally I don't think that there are any effects anyway, because *whatever* happens between the power plant and the electric device, the power supply will remove it. The power supply is the *only place where you can effectively remove anything that might be in the "current" and might adversely affect the sound. And indeed these effects (spikes, electromagnetic static by other devices etc) are filtered out automatically during the AC/DC conversion. I think that when it comes to cables you should get expensive ones to connect the devices (CD -> Amp, Tuner -> Amp etc) ... they carry low level signals which are especially vulnerable to electromagnetic static, at least if unbalanced cables are used (which is unfortunately the standard with most consumer hi-fi). Speaker cables ... well, personally I also go for reasonably high diameter cables, but it's mostly a "placebo" thing. They don't cost that much, they look good and are unbreakable. But an audible effect on the sound? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 04:08
| You're lost for science. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 04:29
^ then why did I buy a record player last year?
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