Pelican, Isis, Neurosis - Prog-Metal or Post-Rock?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36200
Printed Date: July 23 2025 at 13:37
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Topic: Pelican, Isis, Neurosis - Prog-Metal or Post-Rock?
Posted By: Trickster F.
Subject: Pelican, Isis, Neurosis - Prog-Metal or Post-Rock?
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 11:41
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The music of bands like Pelican, Neurosis, Isis, Cult of Luna (and also partly Agalloch, Kayo Dot and others to a different degree)and their followers is most usually labelled as 'Post-Metal', which describes their sound, often influenced by bands like Godsflesh, The Melvins on the one hand, and post-rock collectives on the other, quite well, I think. They surely do deserve a place on this site.
Why I posted this thread/poll was to ask your opinion: do you think the sound of these bands is closer to Progressive Metal (in the broad meaning of the word, self-evidently, if we took Prog-Metal in the meaning "Queensryche, Fates Warning and influences bands, this thread wouldn't go in the direction I'd like it to go, so please do not bring this up!) or Post-Rock? Judging by the latest releases of Isis, Pelican and Neurosis, which are the most popular examples, I have come to the conclusion that the genre has considerably more noticeable post-rock tendencies than those common to prog-metal's archetype.
Furthermore, what subgenre do you think Don Caballero fits in the best? I think they are very well in Post-Rock, whereas a member of the team I used to be in thinks they are Prog-Metal.
All opinions are welcome. ------------- sig |
Replies:
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 11:53
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I voted for post-rock - I don't really like the term post-metal anyway being that the music it describes seems more of a continuation of punk, sludge and shoegaze, hardly metal in conventional terms and noticably closer to mogwai than to maiden. I've no idea about don caballero, I had a feeling they were a math/noise rock band lol ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:03
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^ Sludge is a metal genre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sludge_metal - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sludge_metal And of course all the mentioned bands (Pelican, Neurosis, Isis, Cult of Luna, partly Agalloch, Kayo Dot) are metal bands ... why "disguising" them as Post-Rock when they aren't? Surely not just to make it more obvious that they don't sound like Dream Theater? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:05
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Last two Isis albums, also Neurosis's and Pelican's new direction make me question their relation to the metal genre, moreover, I believe if those albums had not been released, they wouldn't have been considered for addition, therefore, I wouldn't say the connection to heavy metal is so blatantly obvious, as you claim it, Mike. ------------- sig |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:07
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"Post" means that it developed beyond the boundaries of the genre, but is still influenced by it. It's exactly the previous albums which make the connection so obvious, Ivan.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:08
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don't get all defensive Mikey, I've seen you do this before ;P besides Trickster said this wasn't about seperating dream theater from post-metal so I didn't mention any orthodox prog names on purpose. I see that you are ignoring the intentions of the thread :P i'm a doom metal fan so I know a little about my sludge. what I mean is that their metal influence is of tertiary importance to their sound. all the bands listed have very chromatic hardcore riffing and hardly your standard drumming patterns or vocal delivery. bonus points for refuting this without referring to a categorization invented by a journalist for god knows what reason. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:35
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^ ok, if you want to avoid coined phrases I'd describe these bands as "experimental minimalistic metal". Even a word like "Sludge" shuold be avoided as it doesn't tell you much about how it sounds unless you already know most of the bands. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 12:36
| Post-Rock would be a better choice. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 13:21
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I cast my vote for keeping them in progessive metal. I think they are definitely metal, so moving them to post-rock would be misleading. The only downfall in my argument is that those bands tend to be appreciated more by people who like post-rock, rather than people who like progressive metal. They sound nothing like the typical prog metal band. However, moving them to post-rock might open the gates for moving bands like Agalloch to post-rock, which just doesn't make sense at all. So, I guess my argument is that the aforementioned bands are something like Progressive Atmospheric Sludge metal, the same way that Agalloch is Progressive Atmospheric Black Metal, and thus they should be kept in metal. PS: please don't flame me with technicalities about metal subgenres, and who is and is not black metal or sludge metal.  ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 13:23
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An addition: an argument could also be made for moving Red Sparowes and Russian Circles from post-rock to prog metal, but I rather like it the way it is divided now. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 13:28
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Yeah, is Red Sparrowers really that different from Isis and Pelican to be in a separate category? ------------- sig |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 13:36
while undeniably heavy, I think Red Sparowes lack a prevalent metal influence in their music. Pelican has a distinct doom-metal-inspired riff style, whereas Red Sparowes have powerful guitar parts without noticeable metal influence. Isis, while also similar, has much more 'metal' guitar riffs, not to mention the vocals.... So clearly the argument can go either way, but I think Pelican, Isis and Neurosis, while similar in many ways to post-rock bands, should still be distinguished for their metal influence. Regarding Don Cab, until we come up with something better, they should remain in post-rock. there are tons of progressive 'math-rock' bands that could fit in under the "experimental" tag that seems to ride along with post-rock. Personally, I think they fit in more with jazz-rock than anything. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Trickster F. wrote:Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 14:08
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All these discussions are only caused by the rigid category structure of the archives ... it would only take a relatively simple modification of the database to allow bands to be placed in multiple genres (or at least one main genre and a secondary genre). I'm not comfortable with moving these bands out of prog metal, but I don't mind having them listed in post rock ... the best label would IMO be "Post Metal/Rock". And I think this will be confirmed by the results of this poll ... no clear winner.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Inferno
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 14:22
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Post-rock is not a question of Metal sounding....it's the way the music
is constructed and each of these band are Post-rock band but use a hell
lot of deep distortions into their riff. anyway, their all signed on Hydrahead record witch is consider as a post-rock label! |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 14:25
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can a band be in multiple genres. They are both. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 14:29
Agreed ... it's mainly the riffs and the vocals which give away the metal past, it's not so much the heavy distortion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 15:21
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They fit perfectly under Post-Metal, so either the site needs to include that category, or they can fit under progressive metal. Either way, there needs to be "metal". I find nothing Post-Rock in Isis or Neurosis' early years. Isis and Pelican is steadily getting more and more "post-rockish", but Neurosis only shows slight influence. Red Sparowes I still categorize as post-metal, even though their sound is unmistakebly post-rock influenced. They just seem to have a heavier sound that doesn't befit "rock" as well as "metal". ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: polyrythmic
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 15:44
| Having listened to all three bands I'd have to say post rock, these bands share much more in common with the post rock genre rather than progressive metal. They all use repetive building styles much more common for post rock, than say the riffs of progressive metal. |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 16:10
Thats it. I tend to see post-metal bands more post-rock than metal in structure, but their clear metal (sludge, doom, stoner and whatnot) influences is what sets them into the genre. Although I see your point, Ivan. ------------- 
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Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 16:11
| Post-metal. |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 16:13
That's what I thought
As far as the site goes, prog metal fits best. It's still a progressive type of metal. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 16:15
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So how should we define post-metal ?
While having the trademark metal distortion, post-metal doesn't thrive on metal clichés ?  ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 17:53
| Post-Rock would be a better choice |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 22:20
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Well, the Post-Rock Authority has arrived. Ok. Let's see.... Mmmmmm...No. I don't think so. I think it's the... nevermind. Ok. I think all of those bands mentioned have elements of what little I have heard of that most loved of genres, post-rock, but in the end I think they are mostly METAL bands. Why? I think the heavy riffs, heavy distorsion, the kind of chords, the style of drumming and in general, their whole sound is METAL, if very heavily influenced by post-rock bands.
KAyo Dot is the only one that I think lies exactly in between genres.... Others have said they are Avant-Garde Metal... Well, whatever word you want to use to describe them, I think they have elements of post metal and post rock... ........................... and of course, lots of elements of other substances...  ... but that's another matter. ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 22:21
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I think they are perect for prog-metal. ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 02:21
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The points raised so far, have received a "Touché!" reaction from me. One aspect, I believe, has been missed. One member has claimed that there is nothing to do with post-rock in Neurosis's and Isis's albums. Sure, but there is nothing to do with "post-metal" either. If they had been stuck on that specific sound, do you think anyone would be interested in adding them to a progressive rock website? I mean, Jesu, Boris and The Melvins are not here (and quite deservedly so), which says a lot about PA's strict, yet objective policy regarding bands of such kind.
I remember a similar case was made when we discussed Ulver's relation to Prog-Metal, back when I was a Senior Member. Ulver obviously started as a metal band, even though hardly anybody could say that their beginnings were progressive, and then played prog throughout their further career, in most cases not even bordering on rock. In this case, bands changed their sound but somewhat kept the "metal" influence. Now, how apparent this influence is is subject to opinion, and I guess this is a useful discussion after all. ------------- sig |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 15:29
| I've always known Neurosis to be a progressive-hardcore band, and later Isis too. They are also big on drugs I believe, so maybe some combo of stoner-prog-hardcore/metal? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 15:31
What's the "specific sound of post-metal" ... there's nothing specific about it. It's about as specific as "post-rock". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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