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The Nice (I think I like it better).

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38354
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Topic: The Nice (I think I like it better).
Posted By: cuncuna
Subject: The Nice (I think I like it better).
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 14:26
I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.

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ĦBeware of the Bee!
   



Replies:
Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 14:45
Wow you like The Nice better than ELP, great.

Did you start this to create an argument? Knowing there are a lot of ELP fans on the forum, pointless thread.

Close?


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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!


Posted By: febus
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 14:53

The NICE made some nice music , but the musicianship of the rythm section was not on par with the quality of LAKE and PALMER.

and we can't compare the vocal abilities of Lee Jackson with Greg Lake. Therefore the guitarist David O'List when he was in the band was terrible.(listen to Rondo)
 
But they have great tunes such as ''Flower King Of Flies'' or ''The cry of Eugene'' . This band was there already playing in 1967 and sadly are often forgotten as they were also pioneers in prog as much as Pink Floyd, Soft Machine or Moddy Blues.
 


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:00
Originally posted by coleio

Wow you like The Nice better than ELP, great. Did you start this to create an argument? Knowing there are a lot of ELP fans on the forum, pointless thread.Close?


I'm beggining to. Anyway, I'm just sharing. ELP has some jewels, off course, but I'm currently enjoying that "innocent" factor that I was talking about.

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ĦBeware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:01
Originally posted by febus

The NICE made some nice music , but the musicianship of the rythm section was not on par with the quality of LAKE and PALMER.


and we can't compare the vocal abilities of Lee Jackson with Greg Lake. Therefore the guitarist David O'List when he was in the band was terrible.(listen to Rondo)
 

But they have great tunes such as ''Flower King Of Flies'' or ''The cry of Eugene'' . This band was there already playing in 1967 and sadly are often forgotten as they were also pioneers in prog as much as Pink Floyd, Soft Machine or Moddy Blues.

 


Agreed. Still, something about such flaws in rythm section and somewhat poor vocals sounds really fresh. The cry of eugene is one of my favourites.

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ĦBeware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:03
But it's obvious some idiot would've eventually came in and gone, 'OMFGZ WUT R U T4LK1N ABOU7 , ELP IS TEH ROX!!!111' and lo & behold, we have an argumentative thread. Bah humbug.

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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:11
Originally posted by cuncuna

Originally posted by febus

The NICE made some nice music , but the musicianship of the rhythm section was not on par with the quality of LAKE and PALMER.


and we can't compare the vocal abilities of Lee Jackson with Greg Lake. Therefore the guitarist David O'List when he was in the band was terrible.(listen to Rondo)
 

But they have great tunes such as ''Flower King Of Flies'' or ''The cry of Eugene'' . This band was there already playing in 1967 and sadly are often forgotten as they were also pioneers in prog as much as Pink Floyd, Soft Machine or Moddy Blues.

 


Agreed. Still, something about such flaws in rhythm section and somewhat poor vocals sounds really fresh. The cry of Eugene is one of my favourites.
 
I prefer ELP by far, but I know what you mean. There is a certain innocence and naivety about some of the early stuff.


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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:58
The Nice were excellent, and didnt do any ballads (that I know of) which Lake seemed to do on nearly every album....

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The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock


Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 15:59
Originally posted by febus

 
But they have great tunes such as ''Flower King Of Flies'' or ''The cry of Eugene'' . This band was there already playing in 1967 and sadly are often forgotten as they were also pioneers in prog as much as Pink Floyd, Soft Machine or Moody Blues.
 


Check the Soft Machine's Middle Earth Tapes recorded mostly in 1967 but only released last year by Cuneiform, and you'll discover Mike Ratledge was startlingly ahead musically, improv, playing, etc.  than any of the other British underground keyboard players of the time. As Ratledge and Emerson would have mostly likely known each other - Nice backed Ratledge's wife to be, I believe  - I not surprised Emerson had to stick daggers in his keyboards.......Wink


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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 18:18
Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
I'm quite a fan of the Nice, though - for the same basic reason; That the music is more "innocent" - they didn't really know what they were trying to achieve, but they were having a damned good time doing it.


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The important thing is not to stop questioning.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 18:48
Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
 
 
Must be just you then.


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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 18:58
My friend's dad is a massive nice fan, but he wouldnt touch ELP with a barge poll. Personally i dont take either seriously enough to come to a conclusion. both are fun and a quaint example of late 60's/ 70's indulgence. nothing to lose sleep over.    

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Posted By: MusicForSpeedin
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 20:40
El Topo

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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 01:19
I think I prefer the Nice, but ELP's first few albums are great listens too.



 


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 01:23
LOVE the Nice.. first real Prog band... Flower King of Flies.. brilliant. Close this thread? Why? What are you talking about?









Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 04:01
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
 
 
Must be just you then.
 
 
No - it's definitely Emerson.


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The important thing is not to stop questioning.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 07:07
You could say the same about Yes. There's a certain roughness about their debut album which gives it a warmer feel than, say, FRAGILE. I find some of the tracks (e.g. "Beyond and Before", "Every little thing") thoroughly enjoyable.


Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 07:33
Originally posted by Frippertron

The Nice were excellent, and didnt do any ballads (that I know of) which Lake seemed to do on nearly every album....
 
I don't think you listen to much of The Nice. Their albums had many ballads, 'Hang on to a Dream' being the most famous!


Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 08:11

I find The Nice's albums (save the debut, which holds up well as a cohesive statement, imho) to be rather hit and miss with rather poor vocals. However, they have their moments. But given the choice between these or ELP, it would simply have to be the latter for me. With the exception of 'Jeremy Bender' and 'Are You Ready Eddy', I like their first 5 albums in their entirety, pretty much.

As for Emerson's occasional 'bum notes', I don't let them bother me and IMHO, they add a certain raw edge to a band often dismissed as being clinical. I play keyboard myself, and whilst I can approximate or come close to some of what Rick Wakeman or Tony Banks are playing (by ear, at least- I haven't really read music since my keyboard lessons a fair while back), there is hardly anything of Emerson's that I can play...EmbarrassedLOL



Posted By: paolo.beenees
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 08:59
I agree with Cuncuna: I prefer the Nice. The fact is that they shared an attitude, a free, cosmopolitan, light and anarchic one, you could find in England at the end of the 1960s, the years of "proto-progressive". From the same scene you can take also albums such as Traffic's "Mr Fantasy", Pink Floyd's "The Piper...", Small Faces' "Odgen Nut...", all testifying an era of great freedom and freshness, unprecedented and never really reached by other "scenes" (Punk, for instance, managed to regain the same anarchic approach, but gave up experimentation and cross-over influences, and that was a pity). Therefore, Jackson's harsh voice and the several "imperfections" you can find in the Nice make them a rock band in the true sense of this word. By the way, I don't think that Jackson (as a bass player) and Davidson are inferior to Lake and Palmer (they are different, but not inferior).

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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 11:46
Originally posted by paolo.beenees

I agree with Cuncuna: I prefer the Nice. The fact is that they shared an attitude, a free, cosmopolitan, light and anarchic one, you could find in England at the end of the 1960s, the years of "proto-progressive". From the same scene you can take also albums such as Traffic's "Mr Fantasy", Pink Floyd's "The Piper...", Small Faces' "Odgen Nut...", all testifying an era of great freedom and freshness, unprecedented and never really reached by other "scenes"


Absolutely! And the same goes for The Soft Machine, Vols. 1 & 2!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 11:55
Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
 
 
Must be just you then.
 
 
No - it's definitely Emerson.
 
Sometimes I wonder if your away with the fairies.


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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 12:17
Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
I'm quite a fan of the Nice, though - for the same basic reason; That the music is more "innocent" - they didn't really know what they were trying to achieve, but they were having a damned good time doing it.
 
Please give examples to back up your 'off the cuff' remark!
 
If your talking about his improv's on live recordings, then he can be forgiven for the 'odd fudge' whilst playing his keyboards 'up-side-down' or sticking a dagger or two into the ivories. In the studio he was a perfectionist !


Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 15:32
Originally posted by coleio

But it's obvious some idiot would've eventually came in and gone, 'OMFGZ WUT R U T4LK1N ABOU7 , ELP IS TEH ROX!!!111' and lo & behold, we have an argumentative thread. Bah humbug.

You could say that about any thread though, and I'd hate to see the day that we stop discussing everything altogether for fear of offending "some idiot" - just let it be. After all, the idiots are greatly outnumbered... I hope LOL.

Anyways, I kind of agree, although I guess it depends on my mood - sometimes I just want to hear the perfectionist pretention of ELP, but more often than not I'm with the thread starter - a lot of the time it's nice to listen to great musicians when they're just not trying so hard to push themselves to the limit. As a musician myself I've personally found that the best music comes when you're just having fun and NOT trying really hard anyways, so I think that's generally a better approach to songwriting than "let's be as technical as possible!".


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http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/">


Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 17:00
Originally posted by Progger

Originally posted by Certif1ed

Originally posted by cuncuna

I don't know what is it, but somehow I feel more comfortable listening to The Nice than listening to ELP. The sound of The Nice is, well, Nice; I mean, it is more innocent, the musicianship is a bit inaccurate, and I get the sense of the musicians really enjoying themselves while playing. Also, the overall sound is much more playful and emotion driven. As Jodorowsky says, "too much perfection is a mistake", wich is how I feel about ELP. The young Keith Emerson is slowly growing on me, while his perfectionist late self is fading away.
 
For such a perfectionist, he certainly fudges quite a lot of notes in some of the ELP stuff, I've noticed Wink
 
I'm quite a fan of the Nice, though - for the same basic reason; That the music is more "innocent" - they didn't really know what they were trying to achieve, but they were having a damned good time doing it.
 
Please give examples to back up your 'off the cuff' remark!
 
If your talking about his improv's on live recordings, then he can be forgiven for the 'odd fudge' whilst playing his keyboards 'up-side-down' or sticking a dagger or two into the ivories. In the studio he was a perfectionist !
 
I am, in fact, talking about the studio albums, not the live ones - which are obviously excusable.
 
I reviewed ELP a while ago, and some observations with regard to Emerson's accuracy can be found there - it was one of the point-droppers for the album; http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=14141 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=14141
 
 
Please start another thread if you really want to discuss the accuracy of Emerson - as I'm aware of the passion that ELP fans have for the band - but think carefully before you do, because as a perfectionist and classically trained pianist myself, I find Emerson to be far from perfect - and if you consider the imperfections to be as those in a jewel, then the argument is already pointless.
 
It doesn't stop the fudges from being there, though. Wink


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The important thing is not to stop questioning.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 17:08
of course Keith flubbed in the studio, so did Palmer. Never really bothered me, and I forgive it because they hadn't been a band for long before they started recording.





Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 18:31
I don't care how trained Cert is. I don't believe for a moment that Keith "fudges" any notes at all. Its all a bit arrogant if you ask me.

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Coldness doth get away with the badness. http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 19:12
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I don't care how trained Cert is. I don't believe for a moment that Keith "fudges" any notes at all. Its all a bit arrogant if you ask me.


hahahha... people like Mark  serve the site in a particular capacity Ian ...

a technical advisor for the technical weenies and wonks out there....LOLWink




people don't need an art degree to appreciate art..  or to be a musician to appreciate prog. Fudged or not... who cares...  he defined the instrument  that defined prog.

plus... he was a 1st class showman, and just plain fun to listen to.  His resume.. not to mention his awards and accolades speak for themselves.


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Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 19:33
Originally posted by micky

people don't need an art degree to appreciate art..  or to be a musician to appreciate prog. Fudged or not... who cares...  he defined the instrument  that defined prog.

plus... he was a 1st class showman, and just plain fun to listen to.  His resume.. not to mention his awards and accolades speak for themselves.
 
Clap Exactly! Thanks for the clear-mindedness


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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 19:40
Originally posted by ClassicRocker

Originally posted by micky

people don't need an art degree to appreciate art..  or to be a musician to appreciate prog. Fudged or not... who cares...  he defined the instrument  that defined prog.

plus... he was a 1st class showman, and just plain fun to listen to.  His resume.. not to mention his awards and accolades speak for themselves.
 
Clap Exactly! Thanks for the clear-mindedness


thanks... I love clappies....Wink


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 20:11
"ELP revolutionized the 70's rock scene by introducing a new line-up format." - PA Biog,
or, pretty much the exact same line-up format as The Nice (post Davy O'List)
 
Elegy and Five Bridges defined what ELP would become, and I prefer these two albums over any of the ELP releases simply because I find them more interesting to listen too.


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If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 20:13
I agree, Five Bridges is absolutely essential to the whole movement.. and a great performance.





Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 02:42
Originally posted by micky

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I don't care how trained Cert is. I don't believe for a moment that Keith "fudges" any notes at all. Its all a bit arrogant if you ask me.


hahahha... people like Mark  serve the site in a particular capacity Ian ...

a technical advisor for the technical weenies and wonks out there....LOLWink

 
Not sure if I like that description. It doesn't send out the sort of message that I would choose.
 
I just appreciate and discuss music in my own way - if you wanted me to get technical, I could start  Tongue
Originally posted by micky


people don't need an art degree to appreciate art..  or to be a musician to appreciate prog. Fudged or not... who cares...  he defined the instrument  that defined prog.

plus... he was a 1st class showman, and just plain fun to listen to.  His resume.. not to mention his awards and accolades speak for themselves.
 
Exactly - there's no need to get upset about the fluffs, or go into some kind of bizarre denial over them - spotting the mistakes is not necessarily bashing the band, and not a reason for anyone who enjoys their music to stop (as if they would Wink).
 
Everyone can enjoy art in their own ways, of course - but the more you learn about it, the more you can appreciate it.
 
As I tried to imply with my "jewel" statement earlier - some ELP fans like the music  because of these little impefections, that can show the humanity of the musicians.
 
 


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The important thing is not to stop questioning.


Posted By: sinkadus
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 07:43
I'm a huge ELP fan and the Nice were great too. Though Emerson was in both, IMO they should be qualified as seperate-The Nice being more on the psychedelic tip with some prog touches and ELP being full blown in your face prog. Both are great in their own right.

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I talk to the wind...
my words are all carried away...

Take Care,

Roy


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 14:31
Sinkadus beat me to it. When I listen to the Nice I don`t even think of ELP. They were a great Psychedelic band with a neo-classical touch. A lot of those psychedelic bands from the sixties were not perfect and that`s why some of them could communicate to that generation. 

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