suggestions.... groups to be moved OUT of
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43544
Printed Date: June 12 2024 at 00:38
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: suggestions.... groups to be moved OUT of
Posted By: micky
Subject: suggestions.... groups to be moved OUT of
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 16:46
|
just curious as to everyones thoughts... as we noted in the PR thread.. there exists here a severe amount of confusion as to the nature of P-R. In my time here... I have seen full prog groups added there for lack of a sub-genre that matches there music exactly, with no sense of 'best fit' so they would be dumped into PR. There are many groups presently in PR that did prog albums.. but are not 'thought' of as prog groups. Since this site is about prog music... not a career overview site like Allmusic. It should be the prog that is important.. Moving groups out, is not exactly a priority of the genre teams. .since we are bombarded with new suggestions for addtion, those that come through the Band Submissions Team, threads here, our fellow collabs directly, or of course our our explorations. However I am curious and would like to involve the general forum.. .what groups currently in PR do you think should be moved to other sub-genres.. and which ones. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 16:56
|
Alan Parson's Project to symph, or crossover due to the later albums (the first two are suitable for prog, and there still progosity after that). Wishbone Ash should be moved... I think Phish could be moved too... Ah, sorry, will complete this later. ------------- Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 16:59
|
Peter Sinfield, perhaps?
He, himself, is Prog Related... but his album(s) Still(usion) bear(s) some hints of something more Prog than merely Related-ness to it...
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 17:00
|
we've talked about APP to Xover... but that is still under discussion.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 17:55
I know I failed to deliver a promise about this, but I still support the initial idea: Crossover needs Rick Wright! 
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 17:58
He is, with admin approval, approved to be moved.. Dean and I agreed on that.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
andu wrote:Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:13
|
I feel like opening a Pandora brand can of worms Coheed and Cambria just kidding, but hell, if 3's in crossover, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be my 2 cents which are now equal to 1.6 Canadian cents -------------  |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:18
|
This one is a good thread... There are quite some artists in PR who have done one or more 100% prog albums, but were directed to PR in order to avoid trouble since they're not considered prog artists. Still, theoretically they should be in prog sub-genres, according to the rules... I'm thinking of Jon Anderson (Olias?.....), Jeff Beck (jazz-rock?), I'm sure there some more. ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:23
I have.... but have been busy with team business... and just really hadn't got to it. You can add them if you wish... doesn't matter who does really ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:25
I'm wondering why no one asked us to take a look at them. We would have... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:26
lots more.... like I said... just curious as to what everyone thinks... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:36
|
Great thread! Let's move all of them somewhere...
A few suggestions:
Oysterhead - Crossover
Black Sabbath - Heavy Prog
Fairport Convention - Prog Folk (and yes, I know that's where they were moved from)
FM - Crossover
Klaatu - Crossover
Iron Maiden - some sort of metal genre - this one just seems silly IMHO
Syd Barrett - psych (ditto)
Bram Stoker - Heavy Prog
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:46
great suggestion Bob.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:48
I'm not honestly familar with his solo stuff myself .... I'll look into him...thanks Eugene ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:50
|
Sorry, folks, but I had to hide some posts here... I believe that the way the conversation was going fits better via PM or at least in the CZ.
Thanks! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 18:51
yes it would have...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 19:21
Wait a second, Claypool's Oysterhead is here but none of his other non Primus projects? Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains, Les Claypool and the Holy Mackerel, Les Claypool's Frog Brigade, Les Clayool (self titled)? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: November 16 2007 at 19:37
|
Sorry, but I couldn't find any artists in PR who should be moved out.
-------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:04
You forgot one act that is in Proto-Prog, but which would fit Heavy Prog to a T.... A British band formed in the late '60 and still active nowadays, famous for its many line-up changes and for having created one of the seminal rock riffs. They had a hell of a Hammond organ player, and at least four of their albums are prog - not to mention the numerous references to our beloved genre in many of the following albums. Did you guess? |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:41
|
I agree Black Sabbath - Heavy and Alan Parson's Project -Crossover |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:51
| I hope you all realise that moving Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden will cause a riot in the forums. The PMT rejected Iron Maiden for inclusion in Prog-Metal, and I don't think they will go back on their decision. As to BS in Heavy Prog, that would probably entail moving Deep Purple (see my above post) and Led Zeppelin as well. Seen as some people react to such suggestion as if someone had proposed their mother being killed, I would say this has no chance whatsoever of going through. Sorry for being negative, but I've learnt my lessons well. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:53
|
Riot? I'm already mad that Sabbath is here right now!
As part of my contract, I HAVE to review every single Sabbath album that features Tony Iommi. Which would be...lemme think...crap, all of them! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:58
|
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:59
|
My thoughts on four bands: Alan Parsons Project has a bit of music which to be more progressive, yet, thinking of his general style, of his 80s shining attitude and his 90s period (which is full of musical failures) - for me, right after the "astounding" Tales, APP is no better than rock, pop-rock, then AOR etc. Jon Anderson should definitely not leave Prog Related. Many see in Olias a great pretext for him to be progressive, when in fact that album is the best he managed to create. Anderson is a solo artist unlike any Yes fan could imagine: from pop and simplest rock to ambient/melody/new age (Angels Embrace) and mystic music, from fairytale concepts (Opio, Earthmotherearth) to unnatural easy music. Jon Anderson is, IMO, not a progressive artist. Syd Barrett's solo albums are a small moment of art; in there lies his personal style of psychedelic poetry, smoky acoustic guitars and deep-dish heavy, even if minimal, emotions. While you can consider it psych, there's definitely blues, rock, lyrical music and 60s pop in these albums - and something doesn't feel as "progressive". I always thought that Barrett's place in Related is very fine, but, in case Psych Team will accept the move, I guess it's can be even better for his music no for Black Sabbath in Heavy.. ------------- 
|
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 03:12
I'll agree with this. Olias, a third of Animation, and the song Song of Seven should not be enough to get him out of prog related.
|
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 05:21
|
Great thread. As it was instigated at the suggestion of a member of the Admin Team, I'm sure we will be supportive of any proposals.
Are there any you want us to look at jsut now?
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 05:49
|
Speaking on behalf of the HP team, I'd like to take a listen to Bram Stoker, whom I've always seen referred to as Heavy Prog. I'll take a look at the list of PR bands to see if there are any others that might qualify. Then, there is the matter of Deep Purple, which when was touched upon opened a serious can of worms, due to the association of the band with hard rock and heavy metal. Being well aware of the unrest such a move would cause, I would've never put forward such a proposal if I hadn't listened very carefully to the band's whole output. I don't want to move them to HP just because I like them.. I love BS, but I wouldn't be in favour of moving them, Led Zeppelin or Blue Oyster Cult. As regards Iron Maiden, they were rejected by the PMT, and I think their decision should be respected, whatever my personal opinion may be. On any account, we should be prepared to a very strong backlash if we decide to move any bands from PR - especially seen what recently happened with the PT move. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:00
(Admin hat off)
If only this move is done I think this thread has reached its purpose... even not being in the Related purgatory, they are in the Proto limbo just waiting to be saved by a gentle soul. PROCOL HARUM, what a progressive band!
(Admin hat on)
I read somewhere that Rick Wright was approved to enter the hallowed pavillion, is it true? In this case (and for other cases as well), I ask the team to send a PM to one of the Admins (generally Bob has received these requests) for being evaluated. Thanks!
 ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:04
|
Guigo, I was actually referring to Deep Purple... However, I think Procol Harum would also deserve a chance to get out of that limbo. Remaining with Proto-Prog, there is a band that should probably be moved to Heavy Prog, namely Andromeda (UK), who were placed in Proto prior the AR split. I'd also like to check out Bakerloo, who are supposed to have heavier elements. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:10
hmmm, wants and gets are probably not the same. 
Looking through the PR list there are many bands I have never heard.
Of those I have...
As has been said before, yes to Rick Wright - Broken China and Wet Dreams are 100% prog and fitting for Crossover.
I'm ambivalent on Jon Anderson, Olias is good Prog, but the rest overshadows that IMO.
APP - I'm the one holding up APP for moving to Xover because I haven't heard enough of them to form an opinion, same for Styx.
 Roxy Music are a quintessential Art Rock band for me, but I accept their place in PR as being apt for their Top-40 image.
Same for Japan, who were what Art Rock became in the 80s (if you ignore their Synth-pop Quiet Life). I'm happy with Sylvian and Rain Tree Crow being in Crossover and Japan remaining in PR, but I liked the idea of keeping them all in one place because that is how I file them in my own collection
Phil Manzanera's 801 were a live continuation of Quiet Sun and Eno solo thus Art Rock and Canterbury tinged. His solo albums are an eclectic fusion of Canterburyish, Spanish folk, Art Rock and non-mainstream pop. I would nominate both for Xover since they are not true Canterbury.
Vangelis - there have been a few threads on him stating that he has produced 3 or 4 100% prog albums, unfortunately he has made many many more albums that are not (much like J M Jarre). And as a fan of Larry Fast's Synergy I don't fully understand why they are PR and not Electronic Prog, but accept that Team's better knowledge on such matters.
Coheed and Cambria - as much as I like this band, their latest album has nailed their coffin for remaining PR I think.
And finally, (Cyril)
Kalevala - the name intrigues me because of the Finnish Epic Poem and the various artists concept album of the same name. The single sample on the PA is a good candidate for Heavy Prog or Eclectic - any one have any thoughts on this band?
On a different note - what are peoples' thoughts on Jeff Buckley for PR? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:13
Knowing your "metal soul" I know it probably was... but I wouldn't lose the opportunity to sell my fish (many parts of your post fits well for PH too).  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:21
|
I think PH might be a nice fit for Xover.. no? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:23
I have my own copy of the Italian translation of the Kalevala lying on a chair beside my desk... It is probably the best translation ever made, much better then the English ones I've seen so far. I am writing a dissertation on Finnish fairy tales, so my mind is never far from those subjects!  That said, we must have some uncanny ESP connection, because I thought much the same thing earlier this morning. I have some material by them, which I'd be happy to send your way if you want to form a clearer idea. I've seen them referred to as HP on a couple of sites too. David and I will assess them gladly, and Eetu will be very happy too, since he asked me to see if they could be moved about a year ago  . |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:26
Peter Hammill????!!! 
Oh, Procal Harum - yes I concur (I've got their first 4 albums, I need to listen to Grand Hotel) ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:29
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:30
|
Split Enz
xtc
City
not too prog..
|
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:34
Are you nominating Split Enz and City to be move out of the Archive completely?
XTC are not in the archive at all, are you asking for them to be added? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:40
I downloaded the text from the Gutenberg Project sometime ago and, for my sins, failed to read it. I must do that sometime (soon).
I don't need to hear them as they are probably not going to be Xover, but I'd like to. ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:43
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:47
for me Split Enz is a good group ,not too prog for be considered prog related,I Believe that I saw XTC in one list of P.A ,and XTC IS NEW WAVE 80,S not prog,and City is a poor band imho...so thats bands must be removed
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:50
if I may intrude... no where was it asked to state what groups you feel were mistakenly added here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:13
|
I've always thought of Wishbone Ash as more than prog-related. Perhaps Prog-folk or Crossover is their true home.
------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |
Posted By: Lady In Black
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:16
Definitely or PR or better HP! ------------- It's dark... I've fear... I have strong pains... A serpent is being born... That badly I did, I? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:16
not to mention it would be awkward to put an electronic artist (even if he's done some electronic rock) together with rockers. I always thought it's "Electronic Prog or bust" for electronic artists. (but, hey, who knows what's the secret essence of Xover...I wouldn't mind Vangelis' prog albums to be recognized as prog...but it just feels a bit awkward, like I said...) -------------
|
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:18
|
DISCIPLINE - from Neo to Eclectic (VDGG and KC influences dominate over obvious GENESIS ones) THE AMBER LIGHT - from PR to Psych or Crossover, but Raff rejected it recently  |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:18
Peter Hammill stays in Eclectic...for ever! haha  Gotta get me some Procol Harum, as soon as possible... -------------
|
Posted By: Lady In Black
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:18
|
If ELO are Xover and Supertramp is totally Prog (don't remember the specific Prog genre) I think that also 10CC are totally Prog (Xover, I think). I'm mad? ------------- It's dark... I've fear... I have strong pains... A serpent is being born... That badly I did, I? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:19
oh, we can check it. I don't know anything about this band. -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:21
don't be mad.... it's a rickin music website... you know.... fun? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:22
The day Mr Hammill releases a Crossover album is the day I hang up my progboots  ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:33
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:36
|
Re Wishbone Ash: I only own Argus (fantastic album BTW), and know a handful of other tracks by them - not enough to judge if they belong in HP. Their output is quite extensive, but they could qualify for being moved if they had another two or three albums more or less in the same vein. Thoughts? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:37
that is the only one by them I have as well... but have heard their inclusion here was based on that album alone... hmmm.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:47
I've listened to The Amber Light on MySpace and do not feel they fit Xover. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ely78
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:47
I speak for me and my mother (also for Mandrakeroot): It's always the same story: to open the boundaries for certain bands or to put barbed wire and electricity and the police?
In my opinion (forged by my convinction with added by Andrea and Sara) 10CC are melodic Crossover. ------------- When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes (Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 09:51
and we'll take a look at them... let me remind you... this thread is for suggestions.. you don't need to be frustrated... we all have personal lives ..and the time here... we give freely..but it is limited
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 15:33
|
There's no way to move out Black Sabbath to heavy prog, simply because they aren't prog. Also Iron Maiden should stay here... Bijelo Dugme could fit into heavy prog though. Wishbone Ash too. I'm not sure about Blue Oyster Cult... Barrett could easlily go to psych... Jeff Beck to jazz/rock or eclectic, damn! Kate Bush and Josipa Lisac to crossover... Fairport Convention and Magna Carta have enough credibility for prog folk... Vangelis and Jarre fully deserve electronic. IMHO, of course. ------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 15:46
|
I am afraid the Genre Teams would refuse most of those suggestions. Personally, I don't think Fairport Convention are more prog than Iron Maiden, but of course this is just my opinion - and as far as I know there is opposition to their being moved to PF. As to Vangelis and Jarre, forget about that - there is no way they'll get into Electronic. Blue Oyster Cult are one of my favourite bands, but they are OK where they are. I wouldn't hold my breath about moving Jeff Beck either - if he had been considered suitable for JR/F, he would have been added there. As regards Wishbone Ash, please check my earlier post. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 17:10
| Personally (i.e. not as an Admin), I reckon Wishbone Ash are fine in PR. I have (and have reviewed) most of their albums. There is no doubt they should be here, but I believe PR is ideal for them. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:01
for what's it's worth.. I think there is general agreeement on that... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:24
Well... Proper because is a very boundaries band I think that (also for PA policy) PR is a correct place for Ash.
But Jeff Beck for me finds the right arrangement in the HP, because also the JR/ Fusion albums have a great Heavy attitude. But, clear, is only my perception of Jeff music. ------------- 
|
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:29
|
I think we should clear out the issue whether "If a band has one 100% prog album, it goes to the respective prog subgenre" is a rule or is it just a myth, before we start. What do the Admins say? ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:35
Tough...
If a band released only one album (like many Italian acts) and this album is prog then they shall go to their genres. Maybe one album amid 2 or 3 could give a band their passport for a real genre. Otherwise, think of a band with 15-20 albums where only one is 100% prog, well, in this case, I'm afraid they'll be out of a real prog genre.
Anyway, teams are devoted to evaluate all prog stuff and they may decide or even consult other Collabs or the entire community to check/confirm their decision. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:48
|
Am I the only one that feels that everyone is just trying to get their favorite artists out of PR by compromising why they were put there in the first place?
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 18:58
More with each one's personal perception of what prog is than any relation with favoritism, especially for those bands in the boundaries.
Since this thread was started, not a band left the Prog-Related (or Proto-Prog) sections and if eventually some are officially requested to go to a real genre, then they'll need a 4-1 vote yes in the AZ.
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: November 17 2007 at 19:07
Well that's good to know. Because I feel that some of these bands are perfectly placed in PR. I can't say I'm worried though. You guys know what you're doing. ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 01:50
This is an extremely unfair thing to say, especially to people who WORK hard on behalf of the site. Though I can understand your point of view, personally I am not going to take kindly to anyone who questions my integrity. It is very clear you don't trust us, in spite of what you said in your following post. I am very sorry about that, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my motives again - even though I can't speak for the others. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 01:59
|
MOVE PROCOL HARUM TO ART ROCK!!! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:19
|
Phish into Crossover or possibly Jazz Rock/Fusion
Ween into Crossover or Eclectic Prog ------------- 
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:26
|
WEEN SHOULD BE MOVED TO ART ROCK!!! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:27
|
Älgarnas Trädgård could be moved to RIO/Avant, but i'm not sure.
Some songs are really Spacerock, while some are just swedish folk with a wierd touch.
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:32
I forgot that Ween aren't even in Prog Related yet.
Therefore, I say that they should be added to Prog Related, and then moved into Art Rock.
And then Boognish shall provide mailto:M@X - M@X and Easy Livin with scepters of wealth and power. -------------
|
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 03:41
Damn it man! You had me checking the archives to see if they were here yet! ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 08:56
need a link? will do. Very good band, and their 1997' album is a Masterpiece (IMHO surely) |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 09:12
sounds promising, to say the least (though we can't face this band's move based on how good it sounds, but on what styles it goes through; we have to admit that, even if, nowadays, we're a bit bittered about over-classifying and genre over-talking ). yes, it would be swell for you to provide us a link. -------------
|
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 11:31
Just the wealth would be fine!
|
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:01
I don't think that was directed at a specific person. He said everyone. I also think that this is a valid point. Sometimes we lose objectivity with artists we really like. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:26
|
I agree with HT and the previous poster but to be fair I will go band by band:
Now my central point...What is the problem with Proto Prog? This is a genre, it defines bands that were the link between Psyche and Prog, Procul Harum is a great band, but they definetely fit in the parameters of Proto Prog, no matter how good they arwe, and it's not like Prog Related,...........For me, Proto Prog is already an early stage of Progressive Rock.
The Administrators said that the division of Art Rock wouldn't imply moving artists from Prog Related to a Prog Category, but now seems things are changing?
Or is Crossover going to get all Prog Related bands?
Please we need stable rules
Iván ------------- 
|
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:40
Not the time to think gravely, so here are my responses (as former AR specialist that worked in the split process) to your two bold questions.
-------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 12:42
quit playing the fool Ivan... Xover is not getting all prog related groups.... read ..and understand....
this thread is for suggestions... if you have some...I'd love to hear them... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:13
Crossover is NOT going to get all of the Prog Related bands. For one, that does not make any sense because not all the bands suggested have Art Rock roots and until I am told otherwise I will treat Crossover as an Progressive Art Rock sub. Secondly, most of the bands in Prog Related are rightfully placed there and are not being suggested for moving so will not move. The bands discussed so far account for the merest fraction of the total.
This thread was started after a suggestion from Guigo (in another thread) that we evaluate some of the bands that were placed in Prog Related limbo pending better genre placement. I do not know which bands he was refering to, so scanned the list looking at bands I do know and made suggestions and comments based upon those. With regard to the bands you have listed, I made broadly similar comments about them in my initial post.
As to Proto-Prog: I have no great feelings or thoughts about these bands, Procul Harum are a definitive Prog band, and could probably fit comfortably in Proto or Crossover, but I have only heard their first 4 albums and none of their later 70s material. On reflection, it probably is better to be a big fish in a small pond but only if people take any interest in the small pond ------------- What? |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:15
He's right, that is what I meant. Sorry to have offended ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:22
|
Ok Rico Crossover is going to absorb some band AS AN EXCEPTION, but a thread open so everybody adds his/her favorite band is too risky because every person will add one band at least.
Ricop, , if you notice in the thread in which Micky announced Peter Gabriel had a new home, I didn''t said anything in favour, I stayed quiet, I have often said it before but not in that thread because the rules were already stablished, but happened what i feared.
The next post was a request for:
1.- Phil Collins
2.- Mike and the Mechanics
3.- Mike Rutherford
Thye same is happening here, Roxy Music is an icon of Prog related, but already mentioned, the flow will keep comming and the priority of the debates will be about this bands instead of additions of real Prog artists-
Iván
BTW: Micky: The phrase ALL BANDS FROM PROG RELATED is only a figurative speech form called Pleonasm, meaning that probably too many non prog bands that are OK in Prog related will be inducted, we will have lonfg debates and lose the inportant issue of adding new bands and keeping a reliable database filling holes in the bios, photos, etc.
Seems still the main concetrn is to move artists from Prog Related catgory to Prog genres rather than add 100% Prog arists....But at the end, who cares? -------------
|
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:29
|
Saying every person who posts in this thread will post a suggestion of a band which to be moved is fine, many people in fact have and share ideas of a band belonging in another genre without existing such a thread for such suggestions - that doesn't mean these suggestions won't be thoroughly processed. I actually remember asking you if you would support Peter Gabriel's move and you said something like "[If Xover happens] sign me up". It's, indeed, tragic that, after PG was moved, many want Collins and Rutherfords and Mike and the Mechanics to be in a prog genre or even related, but that doesn't mean they will be, if they're rejected for those genres. -------------
|
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:30
|
This thread started great and amusing... but like many others is becoming a pain in the neck. Let's begin with the title: "suggestions... groups to be moved OUT of PR". The bold was added by me. There's no obligations here, no compromises... only suggestions.
As said previously, no band was asked to be moved from Related or Proto since this thread started and if or when it happens, the band will undergo the same rules we are using since the Admin Team took control of these 2 sections: a majority needed to accept the band in those sections or to give them to a real prog genre.
I ask everyone to read this last paragraph. Thanks! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:31
A new category should be made for WEEN!!!! ------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:32
|
damn right it is.... and it gets tiring.... it's like people can't fricking read here.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:41
|
If the rule I was referring to is more of a myth and it's rather up to the teams to decide whether an artist is eligible for a prog subgenre, then Ivan's evaluations are correct and the only artist I could still think as of a valid suggestion is Jeff Beck (on the account of his Jazz-Rock albums).
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:44
|
If you need a suggestion byv exception I wioll give one and only one.
Alan Parsons Prohject due to Tales, I Robot and in lesser degree to Pyramyds.
Iván -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:46
and we've, as was noted earlier, have had that under Xover eval for some time now. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 18 2007 at 13:48
|
Nice, folks... we have now a bunch of suggestions to be digested in the following days. Let's leave personal tastes behind and think prog.
Evetual requests to be done via PM to the Admin Team for further evaluation. Thanks!
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |