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Dependence on God

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Topic: Dependence on God
Posted By: aapatsos
Subject: Dependence on God
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 15:27
THIS IS NOT A RELIGION/RELIGIOUS THREAD

I was just wondering how much do you see yourself depending on God (in any way you imagine God) and/or your own self/strengths/abilities.
I see many variations in my everyday life and I am interested to see how much emphasis put people in this.

Myself, I feel I depend both on God and on my own abilities.
An Ancient Greek rime says 'Syn Athena kai xeira kinei' which means,
'along Athena (one of the Goddesses of Ancient Greeks), you need to move your hands (take your own actions)'

Feel free to drop a line...



Replies:
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 16:43

I studied in a catholic school, and our football (soccer) coach was a priest.

Once a guy in the team asked the coach: "If we pray will God make us win?"
 
The coach/priest answered "Yes, he will help us but only if we train hard and play better than the other team"
 
That is my position, trust in God but also make an effort by yourself.
 
IvŠn


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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 16:59
sort of a fourth option for me
 
I don't rely on god but I don't rely on myself either. we're equally useless to laplace the cynic.


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FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL


Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I studied in a catholic school, and our football (soccer) coach was a priest.


Once a guy in the team asked the coach: "If we pray will God make us win?"


The coach/priest answered "Yes, he will help us but only if we train hard and play better than the other team"


That is my position, trust in God but also make an effort by yourself.


IvŠn


Yeah, I agree. I believe God requires us to put forth our best efforts and do what we can before he steps in to help us out or do something for us. That's why he gave us brains, arms, legs, abilities, talents, etc- so we can use them.



Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:19
Somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd options.

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Posted By: Hamfari
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:29
you all are God in disguise silly humans

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Nobody needs to go anywhere else. We are all, if we only knew it, already there.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:35
Anyone who expects god to solve their problems will be sorely disappointed.  

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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:38
I exclusively depend on my own (in)abilities

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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 17:38
Since I don't believe in god, it's choice 3 for me. I would, however, depend on a dog if I were blind. (Woody Allen joke alert).

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°Beware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:11
Well - I'm not religious in any way - I believe in my own abilities - but not exclusively - my family, friends and colleagues are also very important ... Wink



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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:18
Well, it depends, as someone could believe that they are reliant on their abilities that were given to them by God

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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:21
For a non religious thread, this thread is gonna get pretty religous soon, so I will help keep that from happening by not posting in it again.
 
I voted #2


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Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:32
Yeah, umm, I'm so to the 3rd that I'd rather shut up than start a flamewar...


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:32
Originally posted by Hamfari Hamfari wrote:

you all are God in disguise silly humans


I wouldn't have put this exactly in this way, but I believe I know what you mean...Wink

Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:

Yeah, umm, I'm so to the 3rd that I'd rather shut up than start a flamewar...


thank you for not starting one...there is no need Big%20smile


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:48
Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:

Well - I'm not religious in any way - I believe in my own abilities - but not exclusively - my family, friends and colleagues are also very important ... Wink

 
 
Well said. I agree 100%Smile


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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:50
I took what was behind door #3.


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 18:59
The third option, we are all responsible for our own actions and must see them as being just that, our own actions.

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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: SoundsofSeasons
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 19:01
I picked choice #2, but just to be clear i mean the Christian God, lol.
 
 
(If your not religious you don't have to read this)
 
As for someone's comment that they will achieve great things if they trust God, that is not nessesarily true. We must fail, suffer, and accept great loss as well because we are human, a fallen being, whether we believe in God's hand in our lives or not. In the end however, reward will come.


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1 Chronicles 13:7-9

Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 19:13
#3 - I'm more than happy to take responsibility for my actions.

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What?


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 19:23
Originally posted by SoundsofSeasons SoundsofSeasons wrote:

I picked choice #2, but just to be clear i mean the Christian God, lol.
 
 
(If your not religious you don't have to read this)
 
As for someone's comment that they will achieve great things if they trust God, that is not nessesarily true. We must fail, suffer, and accept great loss as well because we are human, a fallen being, whether we believe in God's hand in our lives or not. In the end however, reward will come.
 
I agree with all the post, but I highlighted a short section.
 
This is a Religious thread, if we are talking about God and our trust in him, it's a 100% Religious thread, i don't undesrtand why peope is afraid to accept talking about Religion.
 
But most important, I don't understand why some atheists or agnostics feel so much pleasure trying to make religious people look as idiots who believe in a fantasy, if they are so sure God doesn't exist, why so much effort in attacking those who believe?
 
What do we represent that frightens you so much?
 
Most of us respect all beliefs and disbeliefs, if you join a thread about religion to say that any believer will be disappointed if we trust in God, it's just trying to make religious people feel bad with themselves.
 
If you don't believe it's OK, I have most of respect for people with a solid position, but I think we deserve the same respect for our belief.
 
Thanks
 
IvŠn


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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 19:42
^ I always like to read your comments about such issues Ivan

I started this thread stating that this is not a religion/religious thread in order to avoid any conflicts between members, because this can be a sensitive case.

So I am interested to see if people depend in their own abilities and/or depend on God (I particularly stated in any way you perceive God)

This is not about how strongly you believe or what you believe. I hope I got my point through. Big%20smile


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 22:57

I get your point Aapatsos, but I'm one step forward, I know what iis comming, hope I'm wrong.

But it's a religious thread, if God is the main issue, then it's religious.
 
Cheers.
 
IvŠn
 
BTW: Thanks for your comments.


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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 23:05
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I get your point Aapatsos, but I'm one step forward, I know what iis comming, hope I'm wrong.


But it's a religious thread, if God is the main issue, then it's religious.


Cheers.


IvŠn


BTW: Thanks for your comments.


Ah, but Ivan, don't confuse religion with spirituality. They are not always the same thing. I know many "religious" people who aren't very spiritual at all.

In my "spititual" beliefs, everything is connected. So, trusting in my abilities is also trusting in the world at large to do as its does. Can't have one without the other. I strive to the best I can, and things seem to work out pretty well.




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a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 23:19
I'm going to have to agree with laplace. Smile I depend on nothing, including myself. LOL

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by depend. Do I expect God to help me out in a tough situation? Like a tough soccer game (Ivan's example)? No, I don't believe God will help you in a soccer match. I believe in God, but I'm not fully behind the idea of Him interfering in human affairs. Again, I'm not fully sure what you mean by depend.

I'm not really sure how to answer the question...


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 23:50
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:



I'm not 100% sure what you mean by depend. Do I expect God to help me out in a tough situation? Like a tough soccer game (Ivan's example)? No, I don't believe God will help you in a soccer match. I believe in God, but I'm not fully behind the idea of Him interfering in human affairs. Again, I'm not fully sure what you mean by depend.

 
And even if he wanted to help, the other team will also pray...Who will he help?
 
IvŠn


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Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 23:56
As an agnostic, I would suggest that the answers may all be the same.


Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 11:41
I strive to do things to the extent of my abilities, relying upon myself and asking little in return, all the while looking for signs of the invisible hand reaching out, because  you can never be sure who is cheering you on from behind...or above.

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Signature Writers Guild on strike


Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 11:47
I don't believe in any God, but I miss the option that I would like to chosse in this poll:

I depend on my own abilities and those of the people I encounter ....


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http://www.angelosrockorphanage.com" rel="nofollow - My blog: Angelo's Rock Orphanage


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 11:56
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Anyone who expects god to solve their problems will be sorely disappointed.  
 
I think so. As a 100% atheist, I didn't think twice before pickin' the third option.


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The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 13:46
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Anyone who expects god to solve their problems will be sorely disappointed.  
 
I think so. As a 100% atheist, I didn't think twice before pickin' the third option.


I would have done the same, if I didn't think number three means your a loner or an egoist as much as an atheist.... oh well..Wink


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http://www.angelosrockorphanage.com" rel="nofollow - My blog: Angelo's Rock Orphanage


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 14:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:



I'm not 100% sure what you mean by depend. Do I expect God to help me out in a tough situation? Like a tough soccer game (Ivan's example)? No, I don't believe God will help you in a soccer match. I believe in God, but I'm not fully behind the idea of Him interfering in human affairs. Again, I'm not fully sure what you mean by depend.

 
And even if he wanted to help, the other team will also pray...Who will he help?
 
IvŠn


That's the other thing I was going to say. Will he just side with whoever prays hardest? I don't think so.


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 20:32
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Anyone who expects god to solve their problems will be sorely disappointed.  
 
I think so. As a 100% atheist, I didn't think twice before pickin' the third option.


I would have done the same, if I didn't think number three means your a loner or an egoist as much as an atheist.... oh well..Wink


Ouch..... good point Evil%20Smile


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The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 20:37
Second option, I'll leave it at that.


Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 20:44
I exclusively depend on my own abilities, but that encompasses the fact that I depend on my ability to pray and focus my faith. When I have problems or questions I listen to the advice that I receive from the spiritual body and apply my own conclusions to the open-ended questions that I'm left with. Therefore, I do not depend on God, I just listen to Him.

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Beauty will save the world.


Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 20:54
Here in the Philippines, where most of the population believe that there is an all sovereign God( stats tell us 80% are Roman Catholics), there is a saying that goes: "Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa". Roughly translated  to English: "It is God who gives mercy, but it's up to the people to work". I choose alternative 2.

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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: December 03 2007 at 16:07
Since I do not believe in a god, I can only feel it's natural that I rely mostly on my own abilities(and to a certain extent, those of others).

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The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes
Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie


Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 07:12
I'm an atheist when it comes to "peronsal God(s)", so I very much fall under option three, though I have a very low self esteem and high dependency on others.

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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: December 07 2007 at 23:27
Neal Morse... your abilities are more than enough, God is draining your mind of it's epicness! It's Not Too Late to change your mind!!!

3rd option.


Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: December 07 2007 at 23:46
Originally posted by Hamfari Hamfari wrote:

you all are God in disguise silly humans


Mu!

(Humans ARE pretty silly... but what isn't, when you really think about it?)


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Pure Brilliance:


Posted By: Zwerg Bart
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 19:24
Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I studied in a catholic school, and our football (soccer) coach was a priest.


Once a guy in the team asked the coach: "If we pray will God make us win?"

 

The coach/priest answered "Yes, he will help us but only if we train hard and play better than the other team"

 

That is my position, trust in God but also make an effort by yourself.

 

IvŠn


Yeah, I agree. I believe God requires us to put forth our best efforts and do what we can before he steps in to help us out or do something for us. That's why he gave us brains, arms, legs, abilities, talents, etc- so we can use them.

 
Not to get all Nietzsche on you, but I never understood that argument... Isn't that just you doing something and giving God credit for it?
 


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"Freud's cranium is a snail!" - Dali


Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 19:26
Makes it easier to fake humbleness though, doesn't it ;)


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 19:27
Originally posted by Zwerg Bart Zwerg Bart wrote:

Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:


Yeah, I agree. I believe God requires us to put forth our best efforts and do what we can before he steps in to help us out or do something for us. That's why he gave us brains, arms, legs, abilities, talents, etc- so we can use them.

Not to get all Nietzsche on you, but I never understood that argument... Isn't that just you doing something and giving God credit for it?

Well....it's giving what God gave you credit. So yes and no.

I'm happy I could clear that up. Big%20smile


Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 20:38
Originally posted by Empathy Empathy wrote:



Mu!



That is the best argument I have seen so far.






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a.k.a. H.T.

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Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 08:29
Being an atheist, I'll go with the third option. LOL

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"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
-FZ


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 16:21
 from the poll: I depend on God as much as on my own abilities
 
in other words
 
Help Yourself and God will help you
 
 
Thi atheist never liked the concept of a god (and especially the need to adore it), but this maxim makes sense. Helping yourself will make ypu believe in yourself, therefore it will be easier to help yourself. If you want to call it god's help, that's your problem....Tongue
 
 
nobody ever said those maxims were wrong, they were just adapted from one religion to another


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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Okocha
Date Posted: December 16 2007 at 18:25
I am on my own...


Posted By: SoundsofSeasons
Date Posted: December 20 2007 at 16:10
Originally posted by Hamfari Hamfari wrote:

you all are God in disguise silly humans
]
 
Lol, the first outspoken Cosmic- Humanist i've seen on Prog Archives. Clap. Not that I support that though... just pointing it out.


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1 Chronicles 13:7-9

Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 07:31
#2.


Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 09:21
Originally posted by SoundsofSeasons SoundsofSeasons wrote:

Originally posted by Hamfari Hamfari wrote:

you all are God in disguise silly humans
]

Lol, the first outspoken Cosmic- Humanist i've seen on Prog Archives. Clap. Not that I support that though... just pointing it out.


That sounds pretty reasonable to me. We are also all Buddhas.





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a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com


Posted By: ita_prog_fan
Date Posted: December 31 2007 at 05:51
.
 
How can I depend on someone who doesn't exist !!!
 
.
 
 


Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: December 31 2007 at 22:56
Originally posted by ita_prog_fan ita_prog_fan wrote:

.
 
How can I depend on someone who doesn't exist !!!
 
.
 
 
Yes. How can you depend on yourself when in the first place you don't exist? Just kidding.Wink


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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 19:46
Depend on God? well yeah, i do depend a bit on John Petrucci for Guitar influence, but otherwise, i can cope with my own abilities.


Posted By: ita_prog_fan
Date Posted: January 03 2008 at 12:51
Originally posted by Majestic_Mayhem Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

Originally posted by ita_prog_fan ita_prog_fan wrote:

.
 
How can I depend on someone who doesn't exist !!!
 
.
 
 
Yes. How can you depend on yourself when in the first place you don't exist? Just kidding.Wink
 
.
 
That's what I call a mistery !!!
 
 
LOL
 
.
 


Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 03 2008 at 13:35
None of these categories fit into my personal view of a deity. We are all parts of the deity; every human being, every animal, every plant, every stone, every atom, every elementary particle are part of it. So I would have to say: There is no difference, since if I depend solely on myself I depend on the deity still.

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 03 2008 at 14:27
Well, I'm not so arrogant to pretend to know if someone exists or not.... let's just say that maybe, maybe not...
 
So:
 
If HE/SHE exists, probably we depend a little on Him... I men, at least to some degree! What kind of God would have nothing to do with His atrocious creation? .... again, who am I to know...
 
If He doesn't exist, well, we'll all on are own... Oh man and we're f**ked....


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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 08 2008 at 22:33
Well, many many years ago, I was in serious problems,†since†I†was†very†far†from†home†with†no†money†in†a†complicated†hour†of†the†night. I remember†myself†thinking†"ŅA†little†help?".†A†soft†wind†passed†by†my†side,†throwing†some†dust†and leafs around. At least it solved the mistery...

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°Beware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 08 2008 at 22:35
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Well, I'm not so arrogant to pretend to know if someone exists or not.... let's just say that maybe, maybe not...
So:
If HE/SHE exists, probably we depend a little on Him... I men, at least to some degree! What kind of God would have nothing to do with His atrocious creation? .... again, who am I to know...
If He doesn't exist, well, we'll all on are own... Oh man and we're f**ked....


I would very much prefer a female higher being nevertheless.


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°Beware of the Bee!
   



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