The most musically complex prog band(s)?
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Topic: The most musically complex prog band(s)?
Posted By: ProgressiveOpinion
Subject: The most musically complex prog band(s)?
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:24
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I don't just mean hard fast solos either, but rather the music on the whole.
From my short prog listening life I'd venture a guess and say it might be Gentle Giant on their classic albums. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:25
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The 1st band that popped in my mind was Planet X-
did you want us to only name more classic prog bands?? ------------- |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:36
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do want bands that are complex for complexities sake? or bands that are complex, but are real and soulful and know what they're doing? whichever it is, i'll list some from the second choice Brand X King Crimson Frank Zappa Phish (early era) Planet X Gentle Giant Mr. Bungle Return to Forever Dream Theater (i guess) Tribal Tech ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: the icon of sin
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:49
| Some technical metal bands are ridiculous. Spastic Ink, Cynic, Atheist, Spiral Architect, Meshuggah...they're the ones which spring to mind. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:50
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That I know that are complex musically entirely I could highly recomend you: Gentle Giant FRANK ZAPPA King Crimson (try Lizard) Yes's Tales or Relayer or CTTE |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:53
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Although I've go no real knowledge; Here's some that sounds (+ To some extent I know they are) quite complex and intricate to me: Henry Cow Area Samla Mammas Manna After Dinner.... This ended up a little random, I quess. Must be countless bands in Avant/RIO, Zeuhl, Canterbury and Jazzrock/Fusion more complex than Dream Theater & Phish. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:58
| Koenjihyakkei is probably the most complex from my collection (Ruins as well). Some other better known ones I can think of are Gentle Giant, Meshuggah, Univers Zero, Henry Cow.. too many of the RIO/Avant bands to name. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:59
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I don't even know what qualifies as complex anymore.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 16:01
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Gentle Giant! I used to HATE them, but I just "got" them and now they're in my top 10 bands. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 16:19
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Classic Prog: Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, ELP, etc... tons of good old stuff.
Modern Prog: Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Spiral Architect, Zero Hour, Planet X, Rush, Symphony X, pretty much all prog metal bands.
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Posted By: mellors
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 16:41
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Structurally: Mauldin of the Well/Kayo Dot Technicality: Mahavishnu Orchestra |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 16:42
x2 ------------- 
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Paulieg wrote:Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 16:45
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I feel that Yes had some very technical moments as well- their older stuff obviously. ------------- |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:06
| Hey folks! You like complex? Try Discus' brilliant TOT LICHT! It's like RELAYER, ONE SIZE FITS ALL and OF QUEUES AND CURES rolled into one. Thank you! |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:08
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*has read the forum for years and can't even work out what "musically complex" means based on people's responses*
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:28
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^ Glad I am not alone. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:33
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Unexpect's In a Flesh Aquarium is pretty intricate, also Dave Kermann's stuff and a little known Japanese band called Flat 122 |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:46
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E L P . |
Posted By: MTZArts
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:18
| On a few of their albums, King Crimson screwed around with different timing until the point where it would make a theory god like Pat Martino's head spin. |
Posted By: MTZArts
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:19
| Also, in response to Dark Shade, Mr. Bungle is a definite. Listen to any of their three albums, and you will know what I mean.. |
Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:26
Silly, it's whatever band you happen to find impressive based on your musical interests and abilities.  My friend who doesn't like "Prog" for example, thinks that Korn is obviously more complex then King Crimson. He plays the guitar just like a Nu Metal musician as well; he thinks he's a brilliant player. It's all in the beauty of subjectivity. |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:36
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Wow, I'm the first to mention Egg? Shame! Trying to decipher some of the time changes on The Polite Force borders frustrating. |
Posted By: Turion
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:45
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I would say Zappa right away, for very evident reasons. I don't really know a lot about music, but I know he composed some very hard-to-play music. Then would probably come King Crimson, because Fripp is a pretty crazy guy! ------------- ?: ( |
Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:46
Truth. Sounds like a grandstand for people's favorite bands. As for technically difficult to decipher, Meshuggah would have to be my top pick. But whether one considers that "musically complex," I'd have to wonder. ------------- Hail Eris! 
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Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 19:50
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Return to Forever Mahavishnu Orchestra Mastodon Rush- Hemispheres and A farewell to Kings King Crimson Al Di Meola |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 20:04
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No Behold... The Arctopus?
I'll also second Egg. I'll also add Gong. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:35
Another silly pole.....sorry
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:37
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^ I wouldn't call it silly, at least it has remained positive |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 22:42
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It's probably alot better to say specifically why you think these band are musically complex, based on your knowledge as a musician... other wise this will just be a thread of band names. My choices are: Planet X - I only have the Quantum album, and I only bought it because of good reviews and the presence of Allan Holdsworth (not much of a DT fan). But I soon realized that this cd has tons of mind boggling and confusing patterns that take several listens to memorize. They use alot of polyrhythms and deliberate beat displacement to trip up anyone trying to find a groove. Many sections have the feel of several time signatures at once. Virgil Donati makes it sound easy, too. Meshuggah - This band has completely redefined what 4/4 means to me. Suddenly this seemingly simple meter has over 64 trap doors frequently used by Thorendal to f**k (the proper term) with the listener's mind. They frequently use polyrhythmic passages that are precise down to and sometimes past the 16th note, kept in check by a constant 4/4 beat. And just when you're comfortable with the new pattern of counting, Thomas Haake removes the 4/4 and sometimes the listener is left to fend for his own groove. And the solos from Future Breed Machine and Glints Collide contain some of the most complex tapping I know of. It seems like that's the point of some of their music: to confuse/mesmerize the listener, no matter how good they can count. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Pretty much for the same reasons as Meshuggah, except you have more crafty soloists. Good luck counting. Those have all been rhythmically complex examples, and I understand rhythm alot more than I do chords, melody and music theory. The best example to my knowledge of complex music is Frank Zappa and Gentle Giant. Zappa's music seems to have alot of various chords and textures, which I see as a complex thing to create. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:07
| nice to see PX slowly starting to get the praise they deserve |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:28
99.9% of the polls on the site are silly .
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:31
| agreed, all polls everywhere are ridiculous, but this one's not bad.. and it's not a poll |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 23:45
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I am surprised no-one mentioned Van der Graaf Generator, who can be amazingly complex. One of their specialties, which occurs in several songs, is that they combine the riffs of a slow section and and a fast section of a song and play them at the same time, with very complex results. Or listen to "Meurglys III, the songwriter's Guild" with it's fugue-like intro.
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 00:35
I can't see what's silly about this thread... It could lead to good musical discussions...
 "How often do you shave"... now that's silly! ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 02:39
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I really wonder about the point of posting in a thread just to say it's silly Anyway, I completely agree with what Laplace said in his earlier post. Either we analyse a band's music according to theoretical principles of musical composition, or we judge it according to what WE perceive as being complex - which, of course, is highly individual. There may even be someone who finds, say, Celine Dion's music to be complex
 ... |
....Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 04:01
Let that be the last time that's said here on PA ------------- 
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Posted By: dedalus
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 05:07
| the king of the kings: king crimson |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 05:21
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I forgot to mention the opera "The Fall of the House of Usher" by Peter Hammill, which in my opinion is the most complex music ever written by a prog artist. not only do we have great and complicated melody lines and polyphony of the highest order (just listen to the "Voices of the House"), no, the whole structure of this magnum opus of Peter Hammill is very complex too. in the 6th and final act (which has a breathtaking climax) he uses several themes which appear throughout the opera and combines them with a stunning and utterly convincing result. I have never heard anything that comes close to this in complexity from any other progressive artist, including Hammill himself
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 10:29
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I am not a musician and have no idea of musical principles. Therefore I will not add names here but agree that when one claims a band to be complex one should explain why that band is complex. Rafaela, keep in mind that most of us are men = children. Therefore we tend to use words like silly which can hurt others. It's not our fault ! We did'nt grow up yet (and probably never will). ------------- omri |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:48
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I'll second the inclusion of VDGG. What a band!!!! |
Posted By: Crimson King420
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 12:48
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I'd have to say Camel, their albums are so complex they could almost be considered symphonies.
------------- Sing hymns, make love, get high, fall dead. |
Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 20:35
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^ Symphonies of Rock music... It would be cool to combine those words together to describe a certian style of music. Just sayin...
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Posted By: B360Lightning
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 21:57
| In all my musical exploration I find that the most complicated music in the rock setting are usually the jazz oriented ones such as Brand X or Area. To be honest some of PFM's music or much of Gentle Giant could have that crown. Some of the old Italian bands like Banco in particular would be hard to beat. It's really hard to say and there isn't one answer because theres to much competition. But if I had to pick one based on a band as a whole. I'd say Gentle Giant. |
Posted By: B360Lightning
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 22:34
| I'd also like to comment on what a couple people were saying that the judgement of complexity was based on perception or taste. That is certainly a load of nonsense. Music is what it is and one has to engage in listening to understand its mechanics. Perhaps the people that may more closely hold an answer to the question would be people who have listened to and analyzed the most music. Because generally people will state what they know or what they are aware of. Music can shape aspects ones mind. If one studies the music of a complex nature or classical or progressive. Then you would know what was complex or even more complex in nature. The most "complex" music may be hard for some to wrap their mind around or even tire the mind or make someone feel their arteries tighten and confuse. For me it can really charge my mind or spark my creativity or give me that tingly sensation on the back of my neck, or it could even annoy me based on my mood and the chemistry. I do feel that people need some knowledge and understanding to make the judgement but maybe the most complex band is one that U or I has never heard. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 23:05
*refrains from comment*------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 23:15
^ I won't, however!  You can say Camel sometimes wrote multi-part suites/albums, but their music is really not very complex. They're very close in complexity to Pendragon, which is to say that they're good at writing interesting songs that are definitely not dead musically, but obviously not bursting with technicality. The music on The Snow Goose is actually very simple. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 00:27
no... she's right... Try listening to a whole album by Celine.. how more complex can life get?
I don't know what is the most complex prog I've heard. i can't add that much to this discussion other than I go with what I like. For example, I don't like DT for being "complex" (actually, they're not), but because I love to hear their music. The same with more complex bands like Genesis. VDGG is more complex but I don't enjoy it that much, and Timberlake's songs are not complex at all and I enjoy them even less... So, for me, complexity is but just a little element in music. -------------
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 00:49
| There is definitely a difference between 'complex' and 'music.' The gibberish that passes for music on ITCOTCK side 2 (vinyl and cassette-tape) and Walter Carlos' side 1 (vinyl and cassette-tape) of soundtrack to 'Clockwork Orange' is 'complex' but I am still trying to determine if it qualifies as 'music.' All songs on Yes - Relayer, definitely! Good, complex music! Many others mentioned above get my vote as well... |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 03:30
I'm beginning to feel a little despondent. Whenever I mention Discus or Kenso in one of these threads, I get no response at all. People just carry on chatting about some of the more familiar (usually Anglo-Saxon) prog acts, such as VDGG, Gentle Giant or Zappa. Of course there's nothing wrong with any of their music, which I myself enjoy a great deal. It's pretty complex as well. I just find it terribly frustrating that no one's interested in two of the most exciting prog bands active today, just because they're from eastern Asia! I wish some act of God would catapult either Discus or (especially) Kenso into Prog Archives' Top 50. If you look at quality alone, they fully deserve to be there. 
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 04:02
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Fuxi,
Speaking only for my self I never heared Discus or Kenso so I can not add them. Actually I read some about Kenso and thoght of trying to get them (it's not easy in my place to get asian music). The only album I have from that area is Happy family's Tosco and it's a good one IMO.
Unfortunately the more familiar is more discused. This is natural. I use this threads partially to get some ideas about bands I never heared of and your comment about Kenso sure strengthen my intention to hear them. ------------- omri |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 04:36
I didn't "chat on about some of the more familiar prog acts"
..and one of the bands I mentioned is Japanese ...so HAH !! |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 05:23
| Modern Talking |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 08:07
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Visitor13 ,
There are few things should not be done ever even as a joke !
What you did is definitely one of them. probably the worst band in history (IMO). ------------- omri |
Posted By: Hamfari
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 08:48
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Sleepytime Gorilla Museum any1? ------------- Nobody needs to go anywhere else. We are all, if we only knew it, already there. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 08:54
| Japa-zeuhl is über complex. |
Posted By: Okocha
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 09:07
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Yes |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 10:29
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Gentle Giant, VdGG & KC comes to mind, thos bands are named eclectic for a reason.
Sure some Canterbury bands like Egg, Soft Machine and National health where not far behind ------------- 
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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 12:15
| To my ears the most complex music is more in the Fusion area obvious examples being Return to Forever and The Mahavishnu Orchestra and newer bands like Planet X. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 12:46
Thanks, Omri. If you like Canterbury bands (especially National Health), Bruford (with Dave Stewart, Jeff Berlin and Allan Holdsworth), Brand X and Steve Hackett's better solo albums, you're bound to enjoy Kenso as well. By the way, doesn't Amazon do deliveries to Israel? |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 13:32
I, like many others, would consider Camel to be easy listening prog, muchlike (as mentioned above) Pendragon. That in my mind is a good thing, because you need a break from complex music like KC and GG to go and chill out with pure melody, and that is the purpose that those particular bands serve. Doesn't mean they are not capable of playing complex music, but simply chose to serve a different purpose in the whole prog spectrum. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 14:23
Well, just saw this thread now, and I agree that Discus is fantastic and quite complex. I saw Kenso at Nearfest 2005, and while I thought their performance was fantastic, I didn't think they were anymore complex or challenging than more well known fusion outfits (though the less challenging.....for me, anyway....aspect probably helped me enjoy the show more). Still, considering Frank Zappa wrote compositions on the Synclavier that were unplayable by human musicians (many of them, anyway) I think he gets the prize :-) But were they music? Hmm, opinions will certainly vary on that. They were scored using musical notation, so I'm betting they were music even if a relatively few people will be able to hear it as such. For the record, I'm not really one of those people. But some of the pieces on Civilization Phase III are incredibly complex and intricate musical compositions. Whether they are enjoyable or not depends more on your analytical music listening skills than on "gut feelings" or traditional concepts of melody and tempo. I always felt Gentle Giant could win the most complex prog sweepstakes, but the more I've listened to them over the years, the more I've realized that the individual parts of each player are quite often not complex at all..........but the intertwining of each part (which are all either different, or off set rhythmically from the other parts) is what gives that impressive of extreme complexity. But then, I suppose that makes the overall composition pretty complex. In any case, complexity in music really depends on the listening skills of the listener, as well as the skills of the band members. I'm sure Camel did some things in the 70's that they thought were quite complex at the time, but which Return To Forever would probably consider quite simple. |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 15:51
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In my eyes, Gentle Giant are(were) the most complex prog band
------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 15:52
HAH!!!! hahhahaha.. you go David.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 16:10
| Ok. Which band is the most complex band you ever heard AND enjoyed? GENTLE GIANT WINS!!!!!! |
Posted By: Erpland316
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 17:13
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We can end this debate by all listening to Birds of Fire or Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra! ------------- "Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary [IMG]http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.jones10/amonpic.jpg">[IMG]http://imagegen.last.fm/red/artists/Yeti316.gif"> |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 17:15
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Or by listening to On the Third Day .. or Face the Music.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 18:07
| +Or Octopus, Free Hand, or In a Glass House!!!! |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 18:21
as complex as these albums may be I don't consider them to be the high point of complexity, not even on their own jazz-rock territory (lhough they are of course very complex), and on other territories there are in my opinion much more complex works ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 18:24
Agreed, but for sheer mind shredding complexity I think Science Group would probably beat all comers on this site, with the possible exception of Zappa's Yellow Shark.
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Cylli Kat
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 19:21
 Okay, so this probably isn't the thread to offer up Lawrence Welk, Boxcar Willie, Slim Whitman, or the Sex Pistols for consideration?Sheesh!!! How elitist of us!!! There are so many technically brilliant bands... But by complex, does it have to mean "busy"? Is this a question of notes per second, movements within a song, polyrhythms, changing keys or time signatures, non-western tuning systems.... All of the above? Underlying shades and tones like maybe "Awaken" or "Turn of the Century" by Yes, or "The Accolade" by Symphony X seem very complex... Dream Theater's "Dance of Eternity" is busy and complex. Allan Holdsworth is always full of complex subtleties... Some of David Sylvian's music is very subtly complex... It's funny, I've been a pro musician for 30 years, and sometimes these questions leave me at a loss. I just don't know how to answer them. Plus, I'm sure there are a whole host of bands that I've never even heard (yet!) that might qualify in "the most complex" of prog music... Allow me to just shut up now before I embarrass myself further... ------------- [Insert Clever Phrase Here] |
Posted By: OzzProg
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 19:40
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Well the most complex bands that I like (i know there are some metal bands out there that are pretty insane, but i dont listen to them!) would be any of the following:
Gentle Giant
Al Di Meola (elegant gypsy?)
Jean-Luc Ponty
and some ELP (tarkus?)
and ofcourse; Mahavishnu Orchestra!!!
-------------  |
Posted By: One-Eyed Joker
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 20:56
| NEVER GIVE UP ON A BAND! If you don't understand them at first, dont stop listening to it. In due time, you will probably begin to enjoy it. In my early prog days, i hated Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator, but now they're some of my favorite bands (im sure every proghead says that). It makes me sad to think that i would have missed such incredible music if i had given up on it. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 22:55
ELO? Their music is very layered in the studio, but as far as the music itself, not really. |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 02:16
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meshuggah. i dont, and probably will never be able to understand how they play those ployrythms in those insane time sigs with such mindblowing ease. they are always dead on!! surely they much lose count or rhythm sometime durring a live show? and yet, they dont. their song/EP "I' is incredibly complex. And big nod to Behold. . . The Arctopus. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 04:15
it is simply a matter of counting. when you study Indian percussion the first thing you learn is counting. in this video at about 2:05 and again at 6:13 Trilok Gurtu demonstrates the counting technique (though he keeps it simple there). the Indian school of rhythms, the so-called "tala tarangini" is very complex; the basics of it are explained on the cover of the Embryo album "Life with the Karnataka College of Percussion" (which has an incredibly low rating, probably because the only 2 people rating it so far did not understand it at all; I have to review it), the technique can be heard in great detail on that album; the Karnataka College of percussion demonstrates it in all its complexity  ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 04:58
I have had some experience of South Indian music (I took dancing classes some 20 years ago), and on the basis of that experience I agree 100% with what Jean said in her post. The rhythms can be incredibly complex to Western ears, and this is probably the reason for the low rating of the Embryo album.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 05:09
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oops, I noted I forgot to post the link to the video I mentioned: here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQuD1DSkk8U - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQuD1DSkk8U the passages I meant start at 2:05 and 6:13 by the way, at least parts of the video were shot in Cologne, where Friede and I live; you can see Katja and Mireille Labeque exiting from a subway station and get a good view of the Cologne cathedral there, an unmistakable building (which, by the way, was the highest building in the world before the Eiffeltower was built) ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 09:25
| you rock. |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 10:58
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Fuxi wrote :
Thanks, Omri. If you like Canterbury bands (especially National Health), Bruford (with Dave Stewart, Jeff Berlin and Allan Holdsworth), Brand X and Steve Hackett's better solo albums, you're bound to enjoy Kenso as well. By the way, doesn't Amazon do deliveries to Israel?
Well, from all you mentioned I only have Nationa health self titled and it is good but a bit too nice for me. I do'nt buy in Amazon cause I go to a real store where the owner is somebody who loves prog and I order from him. It is a chance to talk face to face with a guy who shares my love to the music and that is something quite rare here. More than that, In Israel at least, there were many problems with giving your credit card in the net so I try to avoid that.
Back to discusion - I realy think as Cylly cat wrote that we must explain what we mean by saying complex otherwise it's a dialoge between death people. For example - I have 5 GG albums and realy enjoy them but none of them (Debut. ATT, Octopus, Free hand, IAGH) sounds that complex to me. Maybe I'll agree if you'll explain it to me. ------------- omri |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 16:34
You either like something or you don't. I first heard GG, VdGG and Nektar years ago, and I'm not into them. There's no need to 'force' anything. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Jabberwocky
Date Posted: March 09 2008 at 16:42
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There was also an obscure Italian band Stormy Six... That was complexity for complexity's sake: Kobaian brass and strings, clear Henry Cow + Il Balletto di Bronze influences. Worth a try ------------- The only ****ing way out of here is through the rooftop (c) Dolph Lundgren |
Posted By: popeyethecat
Date Posted: May 22 2008 at 17:27
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Based on my experience so far, Meshuggah are definitely the most complex RHYTHMICALLY. I feel they have explored rhythm further than anyone else I have heard, but rhythm is just one aspect of music. I'm not sure who stands out in terms of other types of complexity. This is partly because my knowledge of music theory is not fantastic. If there is someone who somehow blends the rhythmic complexity of Meshuggah with melodic and harmonic complexity, then WOW. Please inform me if you know!
------------- 
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: May 22 2008 at 23:49
Steve Howe said the same thing.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 23 2008 at 06:09
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Gentle Giant, Magma, Zappa, Crimson.
"Radio Gnome" Gong were no sluggards either. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: oracus
Date Posted: May 23 2008 at 06:36
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As far as prog is concerned Hella is absolutely crazy complex. Listen to those insane drum patterns. -------------  |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 23 2008 at 11:13
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Van der Graaf Generator are a lot more complex than people usually realize. Some passages on "Pawn Hearts" (for example the "Maelstrom" part of "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers") are about the most complex I have ever heard. A specialty of VdGG is to play a slow riff and a fast riff that appear in different parts of a song at the same time in another part of it. Examples: The End of "Man-Erg", the live version of "Pioneers over c" on "Vital", the end of "Scorched Earth".
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: TempusFugit
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 21:16
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PFM (Chocolate Kings is one of the most complex, intense prog albums of all time)
Gentle Giant
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 21:34
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Gryphon were pretty complex too, by the way
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: metalisgood
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 22:30
| Unexpect probably... |
Posted By: Demonoid
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 14:03
| VDGG |
Posted By: PinkPangolin
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 18:50
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I don't think it's important to be complex to sound proggy. It just has to sound good. Sometimes simple is beautiful - aren't Pink Floyd in this vein? |
Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 21:41
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GG for sure. I'd add - from the fringes or weirdness: Secret Chiefs 3 (Bungle offshoot) Estradasphere/Don Salsa Ruins Fantomas Pain of Salvation creates some dense and complex passages |
Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 21:44
Very true. There can be magic in properly placed silence or simplicity, too. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 22:37
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5 pages and no mention of the Flower Kings? I know their liberal use of melody generally keeps them from springing to mind, but anyone with any background in music theory can't argue the ridiculously awesome complexity TFK love to casually bring to the table... especially the Rainmaker album as a whole.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: May 28 2008 at 23:52
| Probably Keith Jarrett on a good day. |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: May 29 2008 at 00:08
AGREED ------------- |
Posted By: Cthulu
Date Posted: May 29 2008 at 03:11
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Maybe the topic should be redefined as 'most...intricate'?!? Either way I'll say Gentle Giant and Happy the Man. ------------- "The Box. You opened it. We came." |
Posted By: Demonoid
Date Posted: June 02 2008 at 07:50
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Pain of salvation when it comes to prog. metal. I don't know any dream theater album or any prog metal band as complex as them.(maybe Meshuggah in terms of rhythm as it might take quite a few listens to even get their whole style of music) I'm not talking about instruments alone. Rarely do you come across prog. bands expressing emotions the way they do! In terms of prog. rock-VDGG as i said b4 and ill add ELP(I can never convince ppl to listen to them) |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: June 02 2008 at 11:05
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Depeche Mode,Steve Strange,Frankie goes to Hollywood.....I'm just kidding.I would say Mahavishnu Orchestra,Magma,KC,Samla Mannas Manna,Gaa,Area,VDGG,Henry Cow.A point of view which doesn't
stand out. ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Kurpij
Date Posted: June 03 2008 at 00:00
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Yes, ELP, Dream Theater, Symphony X, Van der Graaf Generator. ------------- 
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