Prog's King Kong vs Godzilla
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47269
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Topic: Prog's King Kong vs Godzilla
Posted By: Rocktopus
Subject: Prog's King Kong vs Godzilla
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 10:45
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Here's a selection of a dozen Japanese bands and another dozen from the US. Europe were extremely dominant during the 70's, but these bands are probably part of the two most vibrant scenes of the last 20 years. I only choose bands I either love or atleast like to some extent. So whose got the best band among the slightly experimental of newer prog? ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Replies:
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 10:50
Dr. Frankenstein (Germany) will win. 
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 11:49
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http://www.generalrubric.com/dkerman/main.html - Dave Kerman & http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Eruins/eng/data/data3_eng.html - Tatsuya Toshida A brilliant drummer from each place. both more of less responsible for a scene or two on their own: http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/%7Eruins/eng/data/data3_eng.html - I'm decided I'm actually gonna honour them with an emoticon each (and maybe an own poll some other time). They sure deserve it:   ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 12:30
Hey 'topus! Where's Kenso! Best prog band on the scene, East or West!
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Rocktopus wrote:Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 13:16
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What a great bunch of bands. Both have amazing scenes. I was into the Japanese scenes before the US (particularly because of my love of Zeuhl, partially because I worked in Japan, and certain Japanese bands really picked up that ball). Koenjihyakkei was the one that started my love affair with Japanese prog (particularly Angherr Shisppa). Since then I got into other avant-styles from Japan. More recently I started to deeply explore US avant rock. U Totem's debut, in particular, touched me... That is a sublime album, and led to much more music. I've listened to that so many times since I got it. I just love it. I will vote for that band because of the significant effect it had on me, but there are a great many wonderful bands listed. I won't say which country has the better scene, since they both have terrific bands. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 15:59
| Koenjihyakkei for me, but Pochakaite Malko is very close.. 2 great albums just can't compare with 4! |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 16:04
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tough choice for me between The Red Masque and Acid Mothers Temple; I finally decided for The Red Masque
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 16:24
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Japan is the hands down winner for me. Much as I love most of the American bands on your poll, I couldlive without them more easily than without Ruins, Korekyojin, Koenjihyakkei, Bondage Fruit and at least some Acid Mothers Temple. I also agree that it could boil down to Yoshida Tatsuya vs Dave Kerman; I think Kerman has the edge as a drummer but in general I prefer Yoshida-san's music. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: paloz
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 16:44
| Happy Family.. WOW!!! Truly amazing, Toscco.. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 17:03
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I agree with syzygy that Japan wins easily. KOREKYOJIN are a band i've really taken to that aren't on the list,but of those listed BONDAGE FRUIT,KONOJIHYAKKI,POCHAKAITE MALKO and HAPPY FAMILY are my favs. Today i go with HAPPY FAMILY. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 09:55
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So far: US: 7 Japan: 6 The bands I'm craziest about right now are After Dinner and Non-Credo. Can't decide. Wish they both had more albums. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 10:31
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Two fabulous scenes and those are great bands; creative, original, explorative and enjoyable.
I would add newer bands from the US such as Normal Love (part of the same Philly scene as Red Masque). They represent an interesting development in the sound of this avant-rock.
I would also say that Belgium has very interesting bands in this style - Xhohx being one of them. Europe is not devoid of these bands yet fortunately for us.
------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 13:11
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The only one of those bands that I actually have is Mr. Bungle. I really enjoy it and Mike Patton's voice is.....unique........but otherwise it's an amazing band. I don't know much/anything about the rest of the bands, so sorry I don't have the kind of input you're probably looking for. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 23 2008 at 06:25
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No problem, birdwithteth11. Hopefully you'll check out some of the others sometime and a little extra attention for these bands was my main motivation . Mr. Bungle allthough good, has obviously got the most votes because they're the poll's most videly known band. I probably should have chosen a band more equally unknown instead (like http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3358 - Bablicon or http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2778 - Cerebus Shoal ...). Btw: Good tips for a Bungle fan: try Ruins, Pochakoite Malko and Secret Chiefs 3 (+ Estradasphere if you don't already know them). Eclectic and heavy. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: March 23 2008 at 12:35
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I've only heard a few of these bands but I really like Koenjihyakkei so they get my vote.
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 05:55
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Japan: 11 US: 9 Its frustrating that so few know the bands in this this poll when it contains nearly half the new prog acts actually worth checking out. That's if prog's supposed to be progressive, as in trying to do something more than creating music within an established formula. (I know. A few bands here are quite formulatic within their genre, too) ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 13:23
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^Tangentially moving from your comment... Comfort food... it is common for people to prefer to traverse the known to the unknown, the familiar to the unfamiliar, that which conforms to certain expectations rather than challenges us. It's not a progressive attitude to music, but at least when it comes to buying albums, quite understandable. The music here is going to be generally less accessible to mainstream proggers, but man is the music rewarding. Worth the effort. Many look for instant gratification, and if something is different for us, it's going to take longer to enjoy, and one may never enjoy it. I wouldn't expect others to like the music I like anymore than I would expect myself to like their music. If I can't take Spock's Beard, why would I expect them to enjoy Boredoms? And nothing wrong with enjoying regressive rock even if it is anathema (and contradictory) in a way to progressive music. That said, I do think there's music here for just about every progger. I wouldn't expect people to buy the albums without sampling first. I'd suggest that people do searches to check bands out at myspace since there's a lot of music there to experience. I have tended to seek out music that already conforms to my taste rather than trying to expand it. A series of building blocks/ stepping stones leads one to the new. But sure people like formulaic music when it conforms to formulas one already likes, and deciphering it/ understanding it is easy.. It's not just about comfort food, it's about comfort fast food. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Apsalar
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:00
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I don't think I will ever forget the day I came home with Boredoms - pop tatari (the parents were not overly impressed!), that disc was to be a revolutionary step in my musical tastes. While now a couple of years down the track it is not my favourite Boredoms disc it is still the one which got me hooked on the Japanese scene. Asides from all the great bands on the list my favourite is Ground Zero, a ridiculously good band, I don't think many people have been disappointed by their output. Their best album is probably Consume Red, but the record which gets the most spins out of me is Play Standards. For me the American scene can be hit and miss, especially the multi-genre bands. There are plenty of solid (even masterpiece) albums released from this country, but I have never found an affinity towards collect bands entire discographies. What are Faun Fables like? they are the only ones on the list which I'm not overly familiar with. |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 21:25
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The examples of the Japanese scenes here makes me vote for them without hesitation, though the USA music is excellent as well, there ares some bands such as Koenjihyakkei, Le Silo or Happy Family which makes difference The last option is awesome by the way ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 07:24
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Out of all of those, sorry to say I've only heard Mr. Bungle and they aren't putting out any new stuff. Not that I haven't been trying other artists in the past few months that are new to me: Talisma, The Reasoning, Maserati, No Sound, Phideaux, Parallel Mind, The Pineapple Thief, Gongzilla. My loss, no doubt, for not being up on the Japanese prog scene. Seems like a lot of Japanese folks have always been big prog supporters. Alas, my experience of Japanese musicians doesn't extend past Stomu Yamashta and Isao Tomita, oh and also Kodo. So, considering all that, who from the new Japan prog scene should I check out first? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 19:01
| ^For a great, solid start, maybe: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=14907 - |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 01:27
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Not saying that it wouldn't be a great recommendation for Slartibartfast (this is just personal experience/ preference), but much as I like Happy Family's Toscco, it failed to have as big an impact as Koenjihyakkei's Angherr Shisspa or various Bondage Fruit albums. Ruins Symphonica might be a good Japanese Zeuhl one to try. I love that Boredoms album, but it's not going to be easy for most. I love Laya, and need to listen to more After Dinner. One I really love is Tipographica. I also like Zypressen greatly, won't limit this to the new prog scene here, but Wha-ha-ha is fun, Mr. Sirius for some good Japanese Canterbury, and Ground Zero is very good. Lots of good Japanese Prog for different tastes. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 04:21
I tried to play it a little safe. Koenjihyakkei must be the worlds ultimate love or hate band. Bondage Fruit IV or IV are brilliant places to start. I do enjoy the Zypressen album (probably fivestarred it here), but the drums on it has started to annoy me lately. I think its not on the same level as the rest of the music. Most of the time I rather it was drumless. Not yet in the archives, but http://gnosis2000.net/reviews/lacrymosa.htm - Lacrymosa 's two albums (from 84 and 94) are the best Japanese avant/chamber/RIO I've heard. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 12:41
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I love what I've heard of Lacrymosa. Good call! I think it was approved before.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 14:18
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I'll be adding Lacrymosa; it's my fault it takes time, Busy times at work and other worries at home.
------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 28 2008 at 04:12
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Its not your fault their not included yet, avestin. Its everyone else not contributing and helping out, like myself. But my girlfriend (and I) already thinks I spend way to much time here.
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 28 2008 at 14:39
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It's a lot of work to add a band (especially researching and writing the bio). I've wondered if a "holding cell" category might be a good idea for the site. A place where approved bands could be listed (an incomplete band page) before adding in all the details (then moved when one has had time to prepare the proper presentation). Could also double as a category for bands that have been deemed PA worthy, but the category is still in dispute (though that might be too disorganised). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 06 2008 at 17:53
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Bringing this back on-topic belatedly, what a heck of a lot of good bands here. After Dinner is indeed terrific.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: April 06 2008 at 18:49
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I'm defenetly gonna check out the rest of After Dinner's vocalist & genious pop-decontructivist, (+miniature 13-string koto, plastic flute, keyboards, percussion, synthesizers, tapes, tambourine, volley ball, tapes,etc..) http://www.japanimprov.com/haco/profile.html - Haco 's other work soon. She looks fantastic too:     ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 06 2008 at 18:57
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love that girl Stereo Bugscope 00's a machine-noise album, sorta like Sachiko M except with on/off switches. Hoahio is a lot like After Dinner would be if the songs were more circular, maybe, maybe not, and Kam-pas-nel-la is sort of an all-star After Dinner with less instrumental capacity/variety. her albums where she's credited as Haco in the band's name get closer to various pop song forms, maybe, maybe not... there's a "Haco & (some japanese guy that sort of has two last names)" which features a track composed entirely on the NES, and some passing Bjorky qualities. the only thing I can remember about the Happiness Proof album is that she sings the line "World Art Fiesta" in a drunky-funky way. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: April 09 2008 at 13:53
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Mr Bungle are one of my favorite bands, so they get my vote for now. I do love most of the other bands in this poll as well, other than those Im not familiar with yet. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 09 2008 at 23:58
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Hmm...
Honestly, the jap scene is a little hit or miss for me. Ruins is cool, Koenjirtgfchsfyirasytezg is also quite good, and OOIOO are great. Happy family doesnt really do it for me though. Same with Boredoms. I do want to investigate Bondage Fruit more though (only heard samples thus far)
American scene is much more hit...at least what I've heard of it. Thinking Plague is probably the one I enjoy least but In Extremis is brilliant. Of the bands above...I'll give a vote to Secret Chirfs 3...who rocketed into my top ten favorite bands just months after hearing them for the first time (and promply collecting their discog).
I certainly respect both though, and both have provided fun discoveries of late. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 10 2008 at 14:23
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Happy Family doesn't do it much for me either. I love Koenjihyakkei (Angherr Shisspa in particular). That and Bondage Fruit are my favourite Japanese Zeuhl bands (love what I've heard of Amygdala too). I much prefer Bondage Fruit to Happy Family. I was actually quite disappointed with Tossco (it having such a huge reputation). One I really like that no one has voted for is Motor Totemist Guild (which I prefer to 5UU's at this time)... Still like U Totem rather more than both, though. And other than Thinking Plague's Extremis, which is good, I'm not that big on Thinking Plague either (have a few albums). Do love Boredoms when in the mood, though. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: April 10 2008 at 15:27
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I think the long track on their debut Naked King (by Happy Family) is fantastic.
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 21:03
I have that album, been too long since I last listened to it, and you're damned right. It's awesome. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 15 2008 at 12:37
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Good topic, so I thought I'd do a little bump. Love to hear recommendations not mentioned yet for a chamber "prog" lover.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Astrodomine
Date Posted: May 15 2008 at 13:07
| I like OOIOO and Boredom, so Japan :) |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: May 15 2008 at 14:09
| lol RIO namedropping. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 15 2008 at 17:36
You can think what you want. I don't care. I tried to focus on what I think is progs two most vibrant scenes, and all their largely ignored bands. Cool that you rediscovered that great Happy Family longtrack, Logan. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |