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Yes Clones?

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Topic: Yes Clones?
Posted By: tszirmay
Subject: Yes Clones?
Date Posted: April 26 2008 at 21:21
The following are groups strongly influenced by Yes, who do you feel is the closest without falling into being a clone?

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Replies:
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: April 26 2008 at 21:42

I think STARCASTLE was kind of a YES clone, nothing wrong with that as the music could be good.

You are in a cheese mood tonight, so i'll keep it French and go with ATOLL. Le morbier, c'est bonThumbs%20Up



Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 26 2008 at 22:04
Bon choix, mon ami Cool You probably speak French fluently, you febus you!

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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 05:04
Starcastle were a Yes clone - they could have been a tribute band. None of the rest are really that close to Yes, though there are elements which are derivative.

I once again stand up for Druid. They are often accused of copying Yes, but they were influenced by many other bands apart from Yes and their two albums are essential listening to any prog fan. I play Toward the Sun far more than any Yes album.


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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 12:32
Starcastle is NOT a Yes clone.  Note the following review of Citadel.
 
Quote If there is one thing that is almost guaranteed to make me disagree with a review, it's saying that a band sounds like another band. I usually can't hear it. I may like the band, and I may like the band that whose sound it is claimed that they are mimicking, but the differences always seem to far outweigh the similarities.

There is only one real exception to that. Whenever I listen to The Flower Kings, I hear echoes of just about every symphonic and eclectic band that put out an album in the '70's.

Which brings us to the review of the day, a look at Citadel by Starcastle. Starcastle is usually accused of being a band that copies the sound of my own favorite band, Yes. So let's examine tis album and see why I disagree with that assessment.

Here are the factors that would lead you to think that Starcastle is a Yes clone.

1. They are definitely playing prog with a strong symphonic element to it. Citadel is not as proggy as the first two albums. I'd classify it as prog pop instead of symphonic prog, but the symphonic element is still there. Yes very rarely strayed into pure prog pop (Wondrous Stories being the only notable example from the '70's lineup) whereas Citadel only goes beyond prog pop in the last two tracks. Still these musical genres are kissing cousins, and I can understand why people would focus on this as a similarity.

2. The keyboard player does have some chops. What surprises me is that people compare him to Wakeman. Again, I don't hear it. Wakeman has a much more subtle, richer, and more tasteful style on the keyboards. They are very different. Why, if you are going to compare Starcastle to Yes, don't you mention Moraz instead. While I wouldn't say that Schildt sounds like Moraz, they do have a couple of traits in common, most notably the way they use mechanical sounding, repetitious riffs to create atmosphere, which you can hear in tracks like Could This Be Love or Why Have They Gone. (Wakeman tends more to chords or to riffs that shadow and then play off of what another instrumentalist is doing.) But when I listen to Citadel, Schildt's keys remind me most of what Pete Bardens of Camel was doing in the same period. Indeed, Highways of the Sun could pass itself off as a Starcastle song, while something like Why Have We Gone could easily have been done by Camel.

3. Both Yes and Starcastle feature high pitched lead vocals and vocal harmonies. I personally don't think that Luttrell sounds much like Anderson, but they both sing in a high register.

4. Both bands have a reputation for positive energy in their music. I've always thought that this reputation is a bit of a stretch for Yes. The Yes Album and Going For The One are both charged with positive energy, but most of the rest of the '70's albums have portions that are considerably darker. Starcastle, on the other hand, owns this category. Every song on Citadel is upbeat, happy, and positive.

Ok, having gone through all of that, let me explain some of the ways in which Citadel doesn't sound at all like Yes.

1. There is no Steve Howe in Citadel. The guitars are competent enough, but you won't get either the virtuosity or the variety that Steve brings to Yes. Simple riffs, an occasional solo and some rhythym work are the order of the day on Citadel.

2. There is no Chris Squire in Citadel. One of the defining characteristics of Yes's sound is the dominant bass that gives the rest of the band a solid musical foundation on which to build. There is little of that here (although Starcastle tries hard on Shadows of Song).

3. There is little virtuousity in Citadel. Yes goes out of it's way to feature it's members as individuals, and they are each given a time to shine. Starcastle focuses much more on an ensemble sound, even though there are the odd solos here and there.

4. As I said earlier, Yes and Starcastle are really working in two different genres, even though they are related. Yes is an iconic symphonic prog band, whereas Starcastle is exploring prog pop in Citadel almost exclusively. So Citadel has no epics, no classically inspired passages, and nothing really experimental or challenging in the music (although it is still progressive.)

If I were going to compare the sound of Starcastle to another bands sound, I would point to the albums that Camel released in the same time period that Starcastle was active, Rain Dances and Breathless.

Ok, that's a very lengthy introduction to my views on the sound of Starcastle. So let me be brief in telling you how good this album is.

It's good It's not a masterpiece. It's not a must have heard album. Many of the songs are so positive and upbeat that they become cloying on repeated listens (Shine On Brightly and Could This Be Love and Can't Think Twice all fall on this category.) But they are still good songs, and Why Have They Gone is a notch above good. So I'll give this one three stars. It's an album you'll be glad that you bought, but it's not one that you will put on all that often.

If I were going to vote for a band that sounds like Yes, The Flower Kings (or just maybe Glass Hammer) would get my vote for sounding closest.


Posted By: Paper Champion
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:00
From this very list it should be Starcastle for me. They sound very similar to Yes.
By the way, it's unreasonable to regard The Flower Kings and (particularly) The Tangent as Yes' clones. To my mind, these bands do have some Yes influences, but hold to the sound of their own without ripping off Yes' stuff.


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:24
Ad Infinitum anyone?


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:26
Glass Hammer take Yes as an influence, but I think there is no cloning going on whatsoever.

Honestly, I've never heard a band that sounds significantly like Yes.


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:30
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Glass Hammer take Yes as an influence, but I think there is no cloning going on whatsoever.

Honestly, I've never heard a band that sounds significantly like Yes.
 
I agree with that except for Starcastle.
 
Glass Hammer is an excellent and mature band that deserves to be recognized for them and not for being clones.
 
Iván


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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 13:58
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Ad Infinitum anyone?
 
RATS! I forgot about that one, I even have it in my collection. I guess it's too bigConfused Thanks Igor


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 14:07
Hey why FK...Starcastle for sure, but they got some nice things though.


Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 14:16
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=769 - FLAME DREAM  from Switzerland should also be on this list.


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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 28 2008 at 01:59

I still say if you are going to regard Starcastle as a clone, you should regard it as a CAMEL clone!!!



Posted By: bruin69
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 17:07
Druid are the most obvious clones to me - they are sort of Yes-lite - Yes without the virtuoisity of playing or composition. Pleasant enough, but with a lot more skill and talent they could have been - well - Yes...

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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 17:24
I mentioned this in the Bruising Poll, but the band Blue Shift released 1 album, in which the singer sounds quite a lot like Jon Anderson (at least to my ears).  I think that there is some similarities in music, but I kind of got more of an ELP vibe to their music.  They also do a cover of Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song, so if you ever wonder how that might have sound with Jon Anderson singing, you should check it out. 
 
I also brought up Starcastle in a recent thread, wondering about how others have made the determination that they are influenced by or sound like Yes.  As I mentioned in the other thread, there have been times when I was listening to my CD jukebox on random and a Starcastle song has started playing and I have had to stop and think which Yes song it was and off of which album before realizing that it was Starcastle.  In my case though, I think it is as much about the Starcastle singer's voice sounding like Jon Anderson's voice as it is about the actual music.  I feel that there are definitely similarities in some sounds, but not being a musician I can't tell if there is any actual "cloning" going on or not.  Can anybody point out any particular Starcastle songs that sound exactly like a specific Yes song with the lyrics changed?  I'm just kind of curious how this designation of Yes clone came about.  Was it one particular song that sounded similar and now they are forever linked?  Is it multiple songs?  Or is it just because the voices sound similar?  Any thoughts?


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Posted By: T.Rox
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 17:40
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:


Honestly, I've never heard a band that sounds significantly like Yes.
 
Little known French outfit Atlantide may be the exception. Some of their work - especially the self-titled track from their lone eponymous album - is so Yes-like you may think they owe Yes some royalties! ...the French vocals do help them sound a little different, though. LOL


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Posted By: Dr. Prog
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 17:53
I would say Starcastle were certainly a poor man's Yes. Even bands that are close enough to be called 'clones' don't try to mimic particular songs and lyrics. They try to create some self identity within the obvious style. The first two Starcastle albums especially sounded like Yes without being Yes---the high vocals, the somewhat lengthy songs, the time changes, the fantasy land subject matter, the prominent use of synths and keyboards. Lady of the Lake, their most well known song, could have easlily fit on a Yes album and sounded similar had Anderson sung it. They also sound close to Camel, who also was certainly influenced by Yes, but they sound closest to Yes, no doubt. As stated above, they had no great guitar player like Howe, so they relied more on the keyboards. The design of the album covers certainly had a certain Yes look to them also, but again, just different enough not be a complete ripoff. Musically, of course, while Starcastle was good, they were not as talented as the members of Yes, and consequently, never were as successful.
 
The Flower Kings certainly were heavily influenced by Yes, as well as Genesis, but have managed to forge their own unique identity without 'cloning'. They are more apt to "jam" and have more of a jazzy influence on their albums, but certainly the emphasis on positive spiritual uplifting themes is a Yes characteristic, the propensity for sometimes overly long and complex songs that in some places cry out for some self editing (sometimes it appears that the FK are trying to do Topographic Oceans on almost every double album) is also a Yes trait, as well as the keyboard/guitar chops and interplay. Stardust We Are and Awaken are remarkably parallel in theme, lyrics and structure in many ways.
 
Glass Hammer aren't as overtly Yes, but certainly carry their influences, especially on the propensity to create sometimes unwieldy thematic compositions to the brink of being somewhat overblown. They sound sometimes like they are trying too hard to recreate what had already been done in the 70s, which carried over to their live performance when I saw them a few years ago.
 
 
You don't have the band Alaska up there as a choice. They only released one or two albums. Clear attempt as a  Yes virtual clone with the lead singer Al Lewis a very high pitched Anderson style vocal. Also some ELP influence---2 man band with no guitar, all synths and drums. Lewis as I understand is now Starcastle's lead singer. So the circle is complete.


Posted By: tarkus2112
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 08:43
There is another band that sounds like Yes,they are called Alaska.

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 16:46
Yes clones?  I say why not?  As long as we can eat them.

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Posted By: Dr. Prog
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 19:27
Originally posted by tarkus2112 tarkus2112 wrote:

There is another band that sounds like Yes,they are called Alaska.
 
 
uhh, see the last paragraph of the post before yours.......


Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: May 01 2008 at 13:23

that band Druid are strongly influenced by Yes, they do sound like them, though i dont like to use that word "clone",  they may be considered as a clone band...



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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 02 2008 at 12:22
Originally posted by tarkus2112 tarkus2112 wrote:

There is another band that sounds like Yes,they are called Alaska.
 
Surely not Bernie Marsden's band?


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Posted By: Draconis
Date Posted: May 08 2008 at 02:07
Starcastle certainly SOUNDS like a Yes clone to me. I never could get into Glass Hammer - some of their stuff sounds like a cross between Yes and ... Manhattan Transfer. Yikes!


Posted By: peskypesky
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:20
Starcastle were total Yes clones....but I love them anyway.

Magenta is pretty heavily "influenced" by Yes as well....and guess what? Love what I've heard from them too! :)


Posted By: Relayer09
Date Posted: May 26 2008 at 22:48
Starcastle are great. I love their music. There are too many similar elements from their sound to Yes' sound not to consider them a clone. It is what it is and I like it,  so what does it matter if they are a clone or not?

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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 03:04
Let me see, bands that are influenced by YES but not really clones. I could say Queen, Boston, Supertramp, The Flower Kings, and I'm sure there are a lot of bands out there that adopted a part of the YES sound. Starcastle of course seemed to do the best mimic job though.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 03:14
most of the important U.S. symph bands were heavily Yes influenced, Cathedral - Yezda Urfa, HtM - but still had distinct sounds





Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: May 27 2008 at 03:33
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

most of the important U.S. symph bands were heavily Yes influenced, Cathedral - Yezda Urfa, HtM - but still had distinct sounds



 
Hell, even Dream Theater, Neil Morse, Rush to mention a few all admit openly to being heavily influenced by YES. There sound is unique in so many ways. They employ so many styles in their music all the way from clasical to pop, country and jazz and so on, where as bands like King Crimson who are tremendous in their own right tended to borrow more heavily from Jazz themes in much of their work. I think what YES brings to the table is a sound variety that few bands can match and so many bands love.


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: July 16 2008 at 04:54
Are many bands influenced by Yes but the one i consider almost a clone is Albatross. They release a single album in 1976 with the same name. I don't see this band here, so no vote.


Posted By: GentleGiant
Date Posted: July 16 2008 at 05:48
The swiss band  WELCOME 

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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: July 16 2008 at 08:59
I agree with a few comments that Glass Hammer are a fine band with a Yes influence, but certainly not copyist.
I once bought a Starcastle album, must be 20 years ago, having heard of the very strong Yes influence. I got rid of it quickly though as it was an awful poppy effort, presumably one of their later albums. I think a Yes influence is a good thing though and I think I will have to invest in one of their earlier albums!!


Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: July 16 2008 at 12:53

I remember I listened to the progarchives mp3 streaming and some of the above mentioned bands came up. I did not know what band it was, but with one track I had a feeling like "Failed, Yes!". It was Starcastle.

(this time I have to go with the crowd)



Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: July 16 2008 at 19:42
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

I agree with a few comments that Glass Hammer are a fine band with a Yes influence, but certainly not copyist.
I once bought a Starcastle album, must be 20 years ago, having heard of the very strong Yes influence. I got rid of it quickly though as it was an awful poppy effort, presumably one of their later albums. I think a Yes influence is a good thing though and I think I will have to invest in one of their earlier albums!!
 
That sounds like the horrific "Reel to reel" album, a total piece of loathesome s**t , unworthy of even a pop collection YUCK!


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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.


Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 17 2008 at 03:26
For me bands like Druid (UK), Lift (USA) and Cherry Five (Italy) are more or less 'obviously Yes-inspired' but Starcastle is the ultimate Yes clone! I bought Starcastle their first album because of the 'typical symponic rock cover' when it was just released, I remember that I got irritated by the way this band sounded like Yes: the same bass sound, the same Minimoog flights, the same high pitched Jon Anderson vocals/vocal harmonies, only more polished and without the famous Yes virtuosity. Quickly I got rid of it, many years later I listened to it again at the home of a friend and now I had to laugh because of that obvious Yes cloning approach, is this a progress in appreciation LOL ?!
 
In Holland the first Finch is Yes inspired and Taurus was close to a Yes clone, about the USA I would like to mention Relayer (what's in a name Wink).
 



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