5) Italian Prog
Potentially, things I will say will make you upset. Or at least feel the need to defend the genre.

I will say that my thoughts earlier in the year about italian prog being similar to fusion was 100% out of line. They are completely different genres, though with some influences and attributes occasionally. I had thought this because I had listened to PFM when first entering the genre and thought they were very jazzy and attributed the genre with fusion.

Italian Symphonic Prog naturally has everything to do with English Symphonic Prog. If the language barrier wasn't there, I'm pretty sure that they would be mistaken for one or the other. Though there are of course many aspects which are purely Italian in ISP, including their unique use of synths. Refering mainly to Darwin album (by Banco).

What I have to listen to first I think: PFM, Banco del Mutuo Succorso, Museo Rosenbach. I already heard storia di un minuto and darwin, but I need to listen to it again, now that I have more of an open mind towards it, and also more of their stuff period.

So besides Storia and darwin, what else should I listen to?

6) Neo-Prog
First, let me start by saying: AAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!! and continue by saying AHHAAHAHAHAAH!!

Do they really call this music? What is this? Like, Marillion is the only band which doesn't suck or something. Now that I've got this out of my system, let me explain, I downloaded Arena's The Visitor, IQ's Dark Matter, The Wake, and Ever, Pallas' Cross and Crucible, Dreams of Men, and Sentinel, and Sylvan's Posthumous Silence.

The only album out of all those that DID NOT sound like a bunch of pop songs connected by so-so instrumental sections which were completely overproduced was The Wake, which was pretty decent, sounding like Script for a Jester's Tear. I will have to listen to these albums a couple more times because there has to be something to it besides rehashing of Genesis and Yes. Of course, Neo prog came along because they needed to keep prog alive, but no band seemed to go away from the mold except Marillion.

Granted though, that all these bands are around in the 2000s, which is confusing. Before I elaborate, let me say that in the 1980s, there were some pretty good, if not confused sounding albums being put out, so my main beef isn't with them. Read on:

The problem with Neo prog in the 2000s is that it really doesn't sound progressive at all. And that's really what separates this from retro-symphonic prog like The Tangent and The Flower Kings. (IMPORTANT DISCUSION TOPIC)

Here's the thing, these genres are basically the same, only difference is that neo prog sounds like its drawing its influences from BOTH the 70s and 80s, while retro prog is solely from the 70s. There's more of an 80s vibe going on with the neo prog of today. In the end though, they are basically interchangeable (the genres that is). Any difference at all would be that retro prog actually is more faithful to symphonic prog of the 70s (to a fault), while neo prog has moved away and formed a genre I like to call "pop music with very very slight progressive tendancies".

All that said....I think that I can draw a comparison between 80s neo prog and retro prog in their sound. Basically have the same sound as each other, just one is from the 80s other from 2000s.

If I haven't lost you yet, I think that Neo prog still can sound good, but almost chooses not to in favor of being simple. But since I see something special in Marillion, then there must be something good about the other bands.

(BTW, Marillion has bad albums under Steve Hogarth (post-fish), which I haven't heard, but which most likely sound just like the rest of neo prog like Arena, Pallas, IQ, and Sylvan. What I'm banking on is that since I've downloaded the highest rated and only the highest rated albums (according to PA) that I should get the best of neo prog. I'll listen more....)

 

Okay, so I've put aside all my notions of these two genres and I've decided to give them another chance. (yay openmindedness). So here's my mindset: I'll go into this listening as though its a pop song or some sort of rock like Nickelback (ew nickelback?? yeah, nickelback).

 

Because that's basically what it is. the Tangent and Flower Kings are really nothing more than the pop of the prog world. Neo i guess i would call "art rock" but not quite as that would be an insult to art rock bands. So both are basically alternatives to normal rock which I won't try to give a name.

 

Neo prog annoys me, which includes IQ, Pallas, Arena, and now Marillion, who I love but has their flaws which were made apparent through listening of more neo prog. Its NOT bad music at all, but not something I can truely enjoy. I am amazed by the production quality and wish sometimes that Yes and Genesis had this quality of recording, but perhaps the production actually get in the way of the music. Possible, and it would be nice to hear a stripped down version of neo prog. I haven't listened to nearely enough though to make a final opinion that I can be content with...but the process is just so PAINFUL. btw I still think Misplaced Childhood is the greatest thing to come out of the early 80s if you're not counting metal.

7) Chris Squire's Fish out of Water

Not bad, not bad at all. It sounds more like Supertramp than Yes. The first two tracks are kind of poppy and not all that great, but that could just be my post-Yes interests conflicting with the music style. The other three tracks are pretty good, my personal favorite after one listen having to be Silently Falling, for its 5 minute intro and fairely interesting other 6 minutes. Despite the tendancies of many solo artists (Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe come to mind...oh look at that) to make their instrument the lead, Squire never does, and it makes for a more cohesive and impressive album.

 

Krautrock (Amon Duul II, CAN, Neu!, etc) is very much a stoner genre. Nothing against the genre, I enjoy it very much, but its 100% (from what albums I've heard) music to get dumb by. Its nice as background music or something to relax to. Its great for that actually, and the energy put into the compositions is great, but you really can't hope for instrumental interaction, at least, you don't listen to this music for intellectual stimulation, as you might when you listen to some types of prog. Rather this is just really cool music.

 

This is mainly a commentary on the first two tracks since that's what I listened to today:

 

So after listening to the first track, Pharaoh's Dance, I'm kind of indifferent. It didn't really leave an impression on me. The dual drums (plus percussionist) are really cool but nowhere NEAR the amazingness of Magma. John McLaughlin basically didn't do sh*t. He just hit random...actually it was what sounded like the same chord for 10 minutes. The track really just sounded like something I'd use to block out outside noises while reading. Admittedly, I didn't listen to it that closely.

 

The title track is much better from what I heard. But also I've put myself in a better condition to hear the music. I put my jazz ears on so to speak. You can't listen to this music (at least not the first two tracks) and expect it to "go anywhere" in the manner that rock does. The tracks are entirely improvised, and severely editted (which I only found to be a problem once, when an abrupt beat change in the first track kind of annoyed me). I think live in the moment with these songs and see how the instruments/musicians interact with each other rather than how the song progresses.

 

Also, despite the title track having three drummers/percussionists and two bassists, it sounded awfully empty.

Also2, just started on Spanish Key, and it sounds pretty good, like it has a point, I think that the rest of the tracks are more rehearsed?

10) Friday Night in San Francisco by DiMeola, Lucia, McLaughlin (Added September 9)
So, Friday Night in San Francisco, while definately an event I would like to experience, isn't as great as I thought. Its got tight (yet simple) arrangements, but its actually very much just them shredding away. Opening track is pretty cool, but its also mostly just shred soloing after the initial opening section. idk I'll have to listen to it again, but it doesn't seem like something I want to have anything to do with creatively speaking. I mean, Its definately something I want to be able to do ability wise, but even that (I know I have no place saying this because I haven't actually written anything like this yet) would be easy.

I'm speaking mostly from the experience I had learning the opening section of the opening track. Arguably (but not much) the best track from that album, and its pretty easy to learn minus the incredible speed.

Canterbury Scene Krautrock (Amon Duul II, CAN, Neu!, etc) is very much a stoner genre. Nothing against the genre, I enjoy it very much, but its 100% (from what albums I've heard) music to get dumb by. Its nice as background music or something to relax to. Its great for that actually, and the energy put into the compositions is great, but you really can't hope for instrumental interaction, at least, you don't listen to this music for intellectual stimulation, as you might when you listen to some types of prog. Rather this is just really cool music.

 

This is mainly a commentary on the first two tracks since that's what I listened to today:

 

So after listening to the first track, Pharaoh's Dance, I'm kind of indifferent. It didn't really leave an impression on me. The dual drums (plus percussionist) are really cool but nowhere NEAR the amazingness of Magma. John McLaughlin basically didn't do sh*t. He just hit random...actually it was what sounded like the same chord for 10 minutes. The track really just sounded like something I'd use to block out outside noises while reading. Admittedly, I didn't listen to it that closely.

 

The title track is much better from what I heard. But also I've put myself in a better condition to hear the music. I put my jazz ears on so to speak. You can't listen to this music (at least not the first two tracks) and expect it to "go anywhere" in the manner that rock does. The tracks are entirely improvised, and severely editted (which I only found to be a problem once, when an abrupt beat change in the first track kind of annoyed me). I think live in the moment with these songs and see how the instruments/musicians interact with each other rather than how the song progresses.

 

Also, despite the title track having three drummers/percussionists and two bassists, it sounded awfully empty.

Also2, just started on Spanish Key, and it sounds pretty good, like it has a point, I think that the rest of the tracks are more rehearsed?