Captain Beefheart Theory
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50939
Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 22:49
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Topic: Captain Beefheart Theory
Posted By: Beahm Pyn Crash
Subject: Captain Beefheart Theory
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 13:54
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Captain Beefheart and That Magic... I've just only begun to listen to and make sense of Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band... and I am stuck! My old man, loves Beefheart, but I have trouble getting into it... I guess it arguably has a steep learning curve, as at first many of his(their) songs sound like garbled noise, and could be quickly written off as such. But upon closer listing, I found there to be hidden gems in the songs such as 'Ice Cream for Crow' which was banned from MTV for being too weird!? I guess the real question is, if you admire Capt. Beefheart - cause if not, you're in the wrong place - why do his songs interest you? |
Replies:
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:07
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I like his music because....I like his music? I can't really break it down any further than that. Trout Mask Replica is my favorite, I find that later albums like Ice Cream for Crow lack that "spark" that made the earlier albums so magical because he realized that Trout Mask Replica wasn't gonna sell enough copies to make him a decent living.
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Posted By: Beahm Pyn Crash
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:16
| I think you're right, I would bet that my affinity for Ice Cream is probably based on a more commercial sound, that perhaps is easier for me to digest... Which only speaks to my conditioning, but that's (Trout) also my Dad's favorite album... It's like a "just cause" reasoning, which is great and denotes Beefheart's specificity and originalism! I guess, I'm just trying to see if I can figure out beyond that why he's so appealing...! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:19
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My experience was first encountering him on Zappa's Bongo Fury, which I found interesting. My next one was Doc At The Radar Station, which I liked but didn't make me a big fan. Trout Mask I tried a while after that one, despite it having a devoted following, I didn't care for it and still don't. I picked up Safe As Milk a little while ago and it's got me interested in exploring more. Considering all the weird music I like, you'd think Trout would have been a hit with me, but somethings just don't click sometimes. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:21
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As someone who usually cares little for lyrics, his nonsense rhymes appeal to me. The way the band's music is often a hideous amalgam of blues elements pleases me since the standard twelve-bar mope is decidedly not my thing. Less intellectually I find the Magic Band's music to mostly be bloody irritating, but at times that's exactly what I like. ;P Very smooth music leaves me nonplussed and jams leave me bored - I'm more likely to become hooked by someone playing music deliberately structured to be fun and perhaps a little disagreeable. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: song_of_copper
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:26
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I tend to think of Beefheart's music as being like the musical equivalent of one of those 3D pictures that you have to look at, look at again, look at a third time, keep looking at, and suddenly - all at once, when you've pretty much given up and relaxed your effort - it snaps into focus, and you can see what's really in there. Glance at it quickly and all you see is random dots. But get your eye in... and every time you look at it, you'll see something different. With the more 'difficult' stuff like TMR, there are often several things going on at once, which can be difficult to make sense of! I'd say the best way to 'get it' is to stop trying.  Leave it on whilst doing other things. Little by little, it may well steal up on you. It's weird, but now when I listen to those songs - the ones that sounded like mad nonsense on a first listen - they seem rather tuneful and normal... but that's ten years later.  The great thing is, it never gets boring. I still hear new things in it (I guess once it feels a bit less odd, you can distinguish what's going more easily...).Also, don't forget Beefheart has a sense of humour... Taking it seriously is not required.  You asked 'why do his songs interest you?' - mostly because for a start, getting into Beefheart at an impressionable age set me up for lifelong musical discovery, and the willingness to give pretty much anything a fair chance. Also because there is always something new to discover in these songs. Lastly, his lyrics are wonderful. If he'd never perpetrated a single note of music, he'd still be a fantastic poet! Happy listening!  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:32
My sister gave me one of those many years ago. I still have it hung on a wall, but to this day I still can't see the bird.  |
song_of_copper wrote:Posted By: song_of_copper
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:39
Try whistling. Maybe the bird'll show himself then. Or throw some crumbs. Or... look past the bird, past the present, the present is pleasant but the past's a disaster. The bird's a pheasant. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 14:45
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The picture has a parrot on either side and in the middle is supposed be the universal middle digital finger type of bird if you catch my drift.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: song_of_copper
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 15:01
...and you want to see that in 3D??!!  (Your sister must really love you. )Anyway, to drag myself back on topic... Beahm Pyn Crash: I'd recommend 'Shiny Beast' to you if you've not heard it. It's more 'eccentric' than weird and has some really excellent songs on it.  |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 15:19
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I think his music provides an interesting deconstruction of rock music. I think it challenges barriers (shatters, more like) while still maintaining an intimate understanding of hooks. These hooks may be garbled beyond belief, but they're there. Ella Guru, Moonlight on Vermont, and the like are all catchy as hell once you make it past the initial difficulty of them. Moreover, I think Beefheart's music is a prime example of complete creative freedom coupled with actually good ideas, and the result is a stunning style of music. I don't listen to it often, but I love it every time I do listen. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 15:21
| This music sounds very intriguing - I'll have to give it a go one of these days. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:01
You will not regret getting Trout Mask Replica. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:06
I'll start there, thanks. |
Posted By: casssy
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:07
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At first his/their songs didn't really have an appeal to me. Its something that I did not give any attention. But its their song "Electricity" that got me interested with them. They rock! :) ------------- The Future is Sharing Music that's why I love.. http://www.creativecommons.org - http://www.creativecommons.org http://www.TribeofNoise.com - http://www.TribeofNoise.com |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:12
I wouldn't make that guarantee to anyone. ------------- |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:28
I think NS is the type of person who will at the very least appreciate TMR and will not regret hearing it. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:33
At the least I need to try the album as it's apparently a RIO/Avant "classic". |
Posted By: song_of_copper
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:41
Forewarned is forearmed with TMR. If you know in advance that it's likely to sound odd at first, that goes a long way to preventing a full-on-fear-and-loathing reaction! Definitely one that repays repeated listening. (And now I am repeating myself, no less! Which has less to recommend it...  ) |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:41
| It's pretty much the best "avant" album of the 1960s. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 17:11
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AMMMusic 1966 is up there. But I'd definitely go with TMR.
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 19:09
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Trout Mask is one strange album, to this day. I've been listening to it since it was released (that'd be nearly 40 years) and I still don't necessarily 'get' it all. As another poster noted, songs such as Ella Guru are almost mainstream.
The two earlier albums (Safe As Milk, Mirror Man Sessions) are closer to standard blues (though not in your usual 12-bar sense) and therefore a bit more accessible.
All in all, Beefheart & company (for let's not forget the talented musicians in his bands) are right up there with the best in my opinion.
It's too bad Lick My Decals Off, Baby (which immediately followed TMR) is not available on CD, at least the last time I checked. It is in the vein of TMR.
Two often overlooked albums (because they are somewhat commercial) are The Spotlight Kid and Clear Spot. These used to sell as a low-priced two-fer CD. The production on these is pure slickness, but the songs transcend that. I'd highly recommend both, if for no other reason than Click Clack and Big Eyed Beans From Venus.
To be avoided at all costs are Unconditionally Guaranteed and Bluejeans & Moonbeams. These two misguided albums are a wreck.
Of the later albums, Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) is my favorite.
"You mean to tell me it's that low yo-yo stuff?"
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 19:19
*cough*Uncle Meat*cough*
 I got TMR at the age of 12, I was barely into Can and Henry Cow so the first five listens was pretty frustrating. It growed on me a lot though, but it never was an album I played too often. Still, it's one of the Captain's best albums, along with Shiny Beast and Doc At The Radar Station. All those are 4-4.5 star albums, IMO. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 19:31
I second all of this. The first Beefheart album I heard was TMR and although his other works are good, this towers above the rest. There is simply nothing else out there that has tried or ever will try to do what TMR did. I believe it is easily a RIO/Avant "classic" and should be heard by anyone who dares to think they know all about music. ------------- 
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 20:31
Interesting i knew about he in almost the same way as you, via bongo Fury, which i found strange
 , then i have to re listen several times because at the same time it was my first Zappa album hahahaThen several years later, i purchase Safe As Milk and i LIKE a lot, then i found my way out listening mirrorr man (fascinanting), Trout Mask Replica, Lick my Decals off The Spotlight Kid, Clear Spot, etc.
But i think the most emotional Beefheart that i found is in the song Futher That We´ve Gone for Bluejeans and Moonbeans -------------  |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 21:17
| Safe as Milk is the most accessible Beefheart album, since it's basically (awesome) blues with Beefheart's crazy vocals. Occasionally, the tracks show his avant leanings (Electricity), but mostly it's just one of the best blues albums ever released. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 21:26
There's your basic one-two punch
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 18:55
I think you might be me. Bongo Fury was my first Zappa album, too. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 21:20
For all who's first experience with Zappa and Beefheart was Bongo Fury (and therefore Debra Kadabra), and that you chose to continue on the Zappa and Beefheart paths (you did, didn't you), congrats on being made of stern stuff 
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 23:53
Thanks jammun after hear and understand that album, i bought nothing more and nothing less that Hot Rats of the FZ side and ASAM of the Doc side, and then... i fell in love completely with their music.. ------------- |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 09:31
I like that analogy but I could never get those pictures to work! Beefheart's more way-out music seems like an unstructured mess at first listen but everything is there for a reason. When the pattern becomes clear it's Magic! ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 11:12
I basically agree with you two on the subject of Captain Beefheart: His music takes so long to get into while not having that much in the way of craftsmanship (as commonly understood, at least ) is where its entire appeal comes from. The reason for this is that his underlying mindset is worlds apart from that of most music, even experimental stuff, which makes the process of understanding his music a rather mind-expanding experience in itself.To be honest, I listen to Captain Beefheart very very rarely and I don't either have that much of an opinion about how good he is at what he does... but I already understand the ramifications of the Captain being an "outsider artist". Those artists are hard to appreciate but hard to judge objectively for the same reasons. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |