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Herbie Hancock

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51009
Printed Date: September 21 2018 at 02:52
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Topic: Herbie Hancock
Posted By: darkshade
Subject: Herbie Hancock
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:35
Yes this man should be added. He has a lot of the same arguments that were made for Miles Davis' inclusion, but with a couple of differences.

Herbie Hancock's influence on the jazz and jazz-rock scene was (is) very big. Probably more than Return to Forever and almost as much as Weather Report.

First, Herbie Hancock was very active in the jazz-rock explosion of the late 60s, first using an electric piano in 67-68 and very involved in Miles Davis' albums during this period and beyond. He also released a very early jazz-rock/fusion album titled Fat Albert Rotunda in 1969.

His experimental Mwandishi albums expanded on the early 70s route Miles Davis took, pushing the boundaries for avant-guard free jazz-rock/fusion. Many odd time signatures can be found in these albums, and lots of different instruments were used.

Then Herbie Hancock changed musical direction. He revolutionized jazz-funk with Headhunters and Thrust. Headhunters became one of the best selling jazz albums of all time. Funk had been around since the late 60s, but this was something completely new, and really put funk on the map. So many musicians would be influenced and inspired this music.

Even the prog bands were. After Headhunters came out, countless prog rock bands incorporated some funk into their music. Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes, Gentle Giant, and would also influence other jazz musicians as well. In fact the music HH made is still ahead of its time, in that jazz-fusion artists of today still find inspiration in the Headhunters and beyond.

Herbie Hancock didnt just make jazz-funk albums and improvise most of the time, there are many odd times, and really syncopated rhythms going on. Not to mention great melodies and prog sections. Hancock also revolutionized the way synthesizers, clavinet, and other keyboard effects we take for granted on this site were used. He made you think you were listening to other instruments. For example, the opening bass line for Chameleon is actually the keyboard. And what sounds like the guitar part is actually the bass.

Another example is the next track, Watermelon Man, where what sounds like a guitar is actually the keyboards.

Herbie Hancock never stopped expanding. The 80s he revolutionized electronic music and in the 90s and 2000s he has always been looking for something new. His very progressive jazz-rock/funk/hip hop album "Dis Is Da Drum" is very fresh and original and came out in 1994 (i think)

Herbie Hancock was a master of progressive jazz-funk and jazz-rock/fusion and jazz and progressive hip hop and many other styles of music. He is also one of the only Miles fusion alumni to not be here, everyone else is. He was integral in the development of jazz-fusion, and (almost) as important as Davis.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Replies:
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:59
I think Dick Heath should be able to discuss this matter. Not sure where he is at the moment, but let's hope he picks up on this one.

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http://www.hulshout.nl/rfm" rel="nofollow - My blog: Angelo's Rock Orphanage


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:01
Yes..  Dick has opinions on HH LOL

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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:06
to be honest I'm a bit surprised he's not already here or being discussed, that's not to say I support cause I'd have to go back and listen to the important stuff..  Crossings is genius but clearly not Progressive rock, or JazzRock really










Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 02:47
^^^ that's debatable

Yes we need Dick Heath. I dont know why this topic hasnt been brought up before...


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 02:58
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

  Crossings is genius but clearly not Progressive rock, or JazzRock really


? It's clearly not? Its jazzfusion although its very experimental, isn't it? That and Sextant are two of my jazzrock fusion-favorites, although they don't rock like Miles did.

Btw: Darkshade, will you please write Avantgarde instead of guard?


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 21:45
formally put HH before the J-R team for an up or down vote.. let's see what they say.

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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 21:52
Drum roll please ...

I love Herbie, I just get confused as to whether rock means RnB and funk or not. Some say yes, some say no. If RnB is rock then we need to look at Mandrill, early Earth Wind and Fire, Rotary Connection, Funkadelic, Stevie Wonder etc.

With the recent additions of Miles, Bowie and David Sancious I'm pretty happy and not pushing for anything ... yet.


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 22:13

Herbie's a bit of an odd duck in the fusion world, because much of it really isn't fusion (in the sense that Return to Forever or Weather Report are).  Sextant is probably the closest he came to that, just before he decided to go the funk route.  When that well dried up, he went back to straight jazz (the VSOP recordings) then with RockIt assimilated more or less hip-hop.  Given the uproar over Miles, I'm not so sure about Herbie.    



Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 11:27
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Yes this man should be added. He has a lot of the same arguments that were made for Miles Davis' inclusion, but with a couple of differences.

Herbie Hancock's influence on the jazz and jazz-rock scene was (is) very big. Probably more than Return to Forever and almost as much as Weather Report.

 
I strongly support that!!!ClapClapClapClap


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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:39
I'm surprised there hasnt been more support on this site.. Cry

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 13:55
maybe it's the timing.. you could try again in a few months (an eternity on  PA Wink )



Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 14:03
For some reason I thought I'd responded to this topic -- Metallica must have distracted me.  From what I know, and have heard, I believe that Hancock would be a good addition to the archives.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 16:16
obviously many people have their attentions elsewhere. LOL Had hoped announcing Steely Dan's approval for example  would take some of the flames off of Metallica.. but that sure didn't happen.  Oh well... Bowie was a bust.. counted on at least ONE person bursting into flame and having their head explode.  Hopefully someone will humour me and do that when Fagen and Becker.. two hacks devoid of talent, vision, and completely unproggessive make their appearance here. LOL

if that fails..  maybe the next Xover addition will hahhahahah.  We try to please people.. no one likes a dull forum.


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 16:19
Sextant, Mwandishi, and Crossings could fit in RIO.  

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 16:21
I know Martin and Richard are looking at HH.  We'll see what they say. 

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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 16:27
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I'm surprised there hasnt been more support on this site.. Cry
 
Could it be because this is Prog Archives and not Jazz Archives. Wink
 
Iván


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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 23:21
maybe the timing was a little bad. But hey Herbie Hancock is waaaaaayy more prog than Metallica could ever try to be

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 23:36
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

maybe the timing was a little bad. But hey Herbie Hancock is waaaaaayy more prog than Metallica could ever try to be
 
Please stop this comparisons:
 
  1. Metallica's inclusion or not has no relation with Hancock
  2. Metallica would go at the most to Prog Related
  3. HH would go to Fusion
  4. IMO none of them shoud be here.

Iván



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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 23:42
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Sextant, Mwandishi, and Crossings could fit in RIO.  



Now that I think about it, people would be upset enough about Hancock going into FUSION, RIO would just blow their minds.  But the way I see it, his career went jazz, RIO, funk, electronics, in that order.  The RIO part is the only part that can fit on the archives IMO. 


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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 23:54
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

obviously many people have their attentions elsewhere. LOL Had hoped announcing Steely Dan's approval for example  would take some of the flames off of Metallica.. but that sure didn't happen.  Oh well... Bowie was a bust.. counted on at least ONE person bursting into flame and having their head explode.  Hopefully someone will humour me and do that when Fagen and Becker.. two hacks devoid of talent, vision, and completely unproggessive make their appearance here. LOL

if that fails..  maybe the next Xover addition will hahhahahah.  We try to please people.. no one likes a dull forum.


Why is this forum making an effort to make its members upset by its additions? Confused


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 00:07
I see you haven't met micky yet.  

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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 02:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

maybe the timing was a little bad. But hey Herbie Hancock is waaaaaayy more prog than Metallica could ever try to be
 
Please stop this comparisons:
 
  1. Metallica's inclusion or not has no relation with Hancock
  2. Metallica would go at the most to Prog Related
  3. HH would go to Fusion
  4. IMO none of them shoud be here.

Iván



hhaha this made me laugh. I keep doing that lol. LOL i agree with 3/4 of what you listed, though im impartial to Metallica even being added


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 05:47
Originally posted by Pnoom! Pnoom! wrote:

Why is this forum making an effort to make its members upset by its additions? Confused


If they really wanted to make people upset, they should start adding indie pop bands under the clever guise of "prog-folk". Oh wait, they already did that with The Decemberists (I love this band to death, but please!)...

Anyway, I think we need to expand upon Indie Archives, since the average prog fan has a grossly exaggerated hatred for this incredible (and very progressive in some ways) style of music.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: Alucard
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 06:13
Herbie Hancock is one of the most important modern Jazz pianists; apart from his work with Miles his early solo records are "progressive " in terms of composition and structure, his famous chord changes ( he had on the other hand always a lucky hand for crowd pleasers like 'Watermelon man', 'Cantaloupe island'  or later 'Rock It'
 
his first"electric" period :
 
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Fat_Albert_Rotunda&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Mwandishi&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Crossings&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972 - - Sextant
 
important for their mixture of free form improvisatioins and modern contemporary music, use of electronic instruments (Stockhausen , Schaeffer etc)
 
second period 1971-1976 with the Headhunters
 
same as for Miles big influence of Sly Stone,intelligent progressive  Funk Fusion (as for Miles second electric period, steady bass line, basic rhythmic and free form soloing etc. 
 
  http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Crossings&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Sextant&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock:_Head_Hunters -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Thrust&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Love_Me_By_Name&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Man-Child&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Flood&action=edit&redlink=1 - , Live in Japan

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Secrets&action=edit&redlink=1 -

 
one of the characteristics of Herbie Hancock  is  and was the mix of popular themes and sophisticated intelligent  music, (BTW something he shares with Miles an Chick Corea among others) even 'Rock'it  is interesting if you place in the context of the time and it's quite fun to see him still today play the theme with a synthaxe putting  the "eyesbrows"  on as Zappa would have said. I  have seen him in juin on a festival with Vinnie Colauita and Dave Holland and he changed often between crowdpleasers and great solo passages.
 
 


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Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear
"Hey there! Rotter's Club!
Explain the meaning of this song and share it"



Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 10:54

I strongly support the HH adition he are an amazing pianist and no doubt  his 1971-1976 period  have all elements of progresiviness

 



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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 11:29
If Jonnas Hellborg has made the inclusion i do not see why not HH

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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 12:32
Originally posted by Alucard Alucard wrote:

 
second period 1973-1976 with the Headhunters

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973 - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock:_Head_Hunters -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Thrust&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Love_Me_By_Name&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Man-Child&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Flood&action=edit&redlink=1 - , Live in Japan

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Secrets&action=edit&redlink=1 -

 

 


Just left out the two years and two (favorite) Herbie-albums, recorded with the Mwandishi Sextet.


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 12:38
http://www.last.fm/music/Jonas+Hellborg - http://www.last.fm/music/Jonas+Hellborg

http://www.last.fm/music/Herbie+Hancock - http://www.last.fm/music/Herbie+Hancock

I'm not an expert on either of them ... but even if the tags at last.fm shed no light on the subject, the list of related artists is different for those two. For Hellborg at least Greg Howe is listed ... Wink

Generally I'd say that currently PA has a very, very liberal policy on JF additions. I won't complain about it, since the same applies to Prog Metal and Art Rock (Crossover Prog), but maybe it would be a good idea to eventually split the genre:

- Prog Fusion
- Jazz-Fusion

I think that artists like Shawn Lane, Hellborg, Hancock or Miles Davis would fit in Jazz-Fusion (emphasis on Jazz), while many artists which are closer to the original prog movement (or specifically Canterbury) might go into Prog Fusion (emphasis on Prog/Rock).


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 12:51
Its called jazzrock-fusion here on this site, not just jazzfusion. Both 70's Herbie and Miles fit well together with Weather Report, Return to Forever, Dedalus, Mahavishnu etc in that category, imo.


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 12:57
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I'm surprised there hasnt been more support on this site.. Cry
 
Could it be because this is Prog Archives and not Jazz Archives. Wink
 
Iván
 
 
Clap
 
 
 


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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
http://www.last.fm/music/Exerior" rel="nofollow - EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway!


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:08
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Its called jazzrock-fusion here on this site, not just jazzfusion. Both 70's Herbie and Miles fit well together with Weather Report, Return to Forever, Dedalus, Mahavishnu etc in that category, imo.


So you want to make us believe ...Wink

Have a look at the tags:

http://www.last.fm/music/Mahavishnu+Orchestra/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Mahavishnu+Orchestra/+tags

http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/+tags

Now, please don't get me wrong ... I'm sure that Mahavishnu and Davis fit well together. But IMO they represent opposite sides of a spectrum, and the tags show that while for Miles Davis the biggest tag is Jazz, Mahavishnu has a number of big tags with progressive rock being one of them.





Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:10
So? That's because Miles had a profilic career in jazz two decades before Mahavishnu Orchestra existed.


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:16
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Its called jazzrock-fusion here on this site, not just jazzfusion. Both 70's Herbie and Miles fit well together with Weather Report, Return to Forever, Dedalus, Mahavishnu etc in that category, imo.
That's right it's called that way about the Rock elements that have that music.


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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:24
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

So? That's because Miles had a profilic career in jazz two decades before Mahavishnu Orchestra existed.


http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags

Still Jazz the biggest tag, with Experimental as number 2.


Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:26
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


So you want to make us believe ...Wink
 
Mike it's not a matter of believing Big%20smile it's a matter  that type of Jazz has strong elements of rock in their structure, in their way that songs are constructed, in the way of the mix of tempos and rhytym are made.

Have a look at the tags:

http://www.last.fm/music/Mahavishnu+Orchestra/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Mahavishnu+Orchestra/+tags

http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/+tags
But, the aren´t determinant to labelled in that way.
 
You should hear Zen Music of Hellborg i reccomend you to do.Wink 

Now, please don't get me wrong ... I'm sure that Mahavishnu and Davis fit well together. But IMO they represent opposite sides of a spectrum, and the tags show that while for Miles Davis the biggest tag is Jazz, Mahavishnu has a number of big tags with progressive rock being one of them.
 
How many albums you have heard of Miles??
By the way and off topic i enter your page the other day and is very complicatedConfused




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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 13:35
Mike, I keep trying to tell you Miles Davis did many ROCK! albums. Read my review of Dark Magus, does that sound like jazz or even jazz fusion. Dark Magus is Psychedelic avant-garde proto-punk progressive hard rock. There are others, but Magus is probably his 'rockenest'.


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 15:53
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

So? That's because Miles had a profilic career in jazz two decades before Mahavishnu Orchestra existed.


http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags

Still Jazz the biggest tag, with Experimental as number 2.


I couldn't care less about the tags on Last FM. Even proto-punk is a bigger tag than jazz-fusion. Just proves that people are clueless. I could probably come up with a lot of progmetal included here with many bigger tags than progressive or prog.

I wouldn't have you to believe anything if you actually checked out the 15 or so Miles-albums that is the basis for his inclusion.

Bitches Brew
is the most influential and well known album, but not really the best argument for inclusion, stylistically speaking (although more than enough). Try Get up With it, Tribute to Jack Johnson, Dark Magus etc... there's plenty, and most of them double releases.


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 16:38
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

So? That's because Miles had a profilic career in jazz two decades before Mahavishnu Orchestra existed.


http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags - http://www.last.fm/music/Miles+Davis/Bitches+Brew/+tags

Still Jazz the biggest tag, with Experimental as number 2.


I couldn't care less about the tags on Last FM. Even proto-punk is a bigger tag than jazz-fusion. Just proves that people are clueless. I could probably come up with a lot of progmetal included here with many bigger tags than progressive or prog.

I don't think that last.fm tags are any proof for artist or album genres. They're merely an indication of public opinion. You can insult the general public all you want, but think about it ... do you really believe that it's mostly casual mainstream listeners who take the time to tag tracks of an album (set) like Bitches Brew? I don't think so ... it will mostly be fans of Miles Davis.

I wouldn't have you to believe anything if you actually checked out the 15 or so Miles-albums that is the basis for his inclusion.

Bitches Brew
is the most influential and well known album, but not really the best argument for inclusion, stylistically speaking (although more than enough). Try Get up With it, Tribute to Jack Johnson, Dark Magus etc... there's plenty, and most of them double releases.

You know, I actually agree. There may be Miles Davis albums which I would call Prog Fusion ... I'm downloading Dark Magus from Napster right now, while typing this post.Smile


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 16:42
Originally posted by zafreth zafreth wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Now, please don't get me wrong ... I'm sure that Mahavishnu and Davis fit well together. But IMO they represent opposite sides of a spectrum, and the tags show that while for Miles Davis the biggest tag is Jazz, Mahavishnu has a number of big tags with progressive rock being one of them.
 
How many albums you have heard of Miles??

Currently I've heard three albums, plus various tracks from other albums without knowing from which album they were. But since I'm a fan of Jazz-Fusion I'll slowly, but steadily get more of his albums.

BTW: In case you didn't know ... I added Electromagnets and Tribal Tech to the archives.Smile

By the way and off topic i enter your page the other day and is very complicatedConfused
Yes, it has that effect on some people. It's actually quite simple to use ... if you like you can create an account and log in ... just find your favorite album through the search function, go to the album page and find the edit button (the little symbol with the pen). Let me know (on my website, preferably, in order not to disrupt this forum) if you have any problems!Smile



Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 17:09
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

You can insult the general public all you want, Thanks! but think about it ... do you really believe that it's mostly casual mainstream listeners who take the time to tag tracks of an album (set) like Bitches Brew? I don't think so ... it will mostly be fans of Miles Davis.


They might be fans, but with proto-punk being the third biggest tag, many of them clueless fans.


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 21:00
Originally posted by Alucard Alucard wrote:

Herbie Hancock is one of the most important modern Jazz pianists
 
his first"electric" period :
 
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Fat_Albert_Rotunda&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Mwandishi&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Crossings&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972 - - Sextant
 
important for their mixture of free form improvisatioins and modern contemporary music, use of electronic instruments (Stockhausen , Schaeffer etc)
 
second period 1971-1976 with the Headhunters
 
same as for Miles big influence of Sly Stone,intelligent progressive  Funk Fusion (as for Miles second electric period, steady bass line, basic rhythmic and free form soloing etc. 
 
  http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Crossings&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Sextant&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock:_Head_Hunters -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Thrust&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Love_Me_By_Name&action=edit&redlink=1 -

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Man-Child&action=edit&redlink=1 -  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Flood&action=edit&redlink=1 - , Live in Japan

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976 -  : http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herbie_Hancock:_Secrets&action=edit&redlink=1 -

 

 


You missed a couple other jazz-rock albums

1977 (or 78?) : Sunlight (though only half this album is good IMO, mostly the stuff with Tony Williams and Jaco Pastorius)

1980 - Mr. Hands (highly recommended later fusion-era HH album)

1994 - Dis Is Da Drum (more modernized and little more electronic, but this is still jazz-rock/fusion!)

everything else he did after the late 70s was more or less electronic music, with some jazz-rock elements throughout. Or jazz, which Hancock has never stopped playing.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 22:53
I've been spending the day re-listening to the first three Warner releases; Fat Albert Rotunda, Mwandishi, and Crossings, and Martin is correct to point out Hancock's importance, surely influencing countless players, composers and film scores  ..the rock elements are not as strong as the progressive jazz and experimental ones, but they are present and the material certainly is a kind of Fusion




Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 02:05
oh no doubt those albums are jazz-rock. Mwandishi, Crossings and Sextant are some of the most interesting, spacey music i know. and the first few Headhunters albums are serious progressive funk/jazz-rock. What other funk band do you know playing funk in all those different rhythms and time changes? And the first 3 Headhunters albums are in no way dated whatsoever,  same with the Mwandishi-era albums.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 11:03
I'm for Herbie Hancock in PA for all the reason that are described in this post!

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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 13:40
I listened to Mwandishi yesterday and I forgot how serious the music is from this era. The opening track Ostinato with it's 15/4 (i think) time signature for the main groove, and the e-piano and bass clarinet give this piece real atmosphere. This is jazz-rock/fusion by every definition, and prog by every definitition.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 13:52
Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 14:01
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


me neither. I have the song 'rockit' cause it is a cool song, but i dont have that album, or any of his 80s albums, minus a couple of jazz albums. his 90s stuff is cool, there's a few gems in there. lately, he's been playing a lot of jazz, and revisiting his Headhunters days live. I havent heard the Joni Letters yet, so i dont know how that is. Hancock has always been about quality, even his 80s stuff is quality music, just not what im looking for right now.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 14:19
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


me neither. I have the song 'rockit' cause it is a cool song, but i dont have that album, or any of his 80s albums, minus a couple of jazz albums. his 90s stuff is cool, there's a few gems in there. lately, he's been playing a lot of jazz, and revisiting his Headhunters days live. I havent heard the Joni Letters yet, so i dont know how that is. Hancock has always been about quality, even his 80s stuff is quality music, just not what im looking for right now.


I still don't know his 90's period beyond certain, but what I've heard is definitely good.  Incidentally, though I do think Hancock suitable for the jazz-rock fusion category due to the qualities of his music, if he weren't of that quality, I wouldn't care.  Going go back about a comment made about lack of interest because this is progarchives, not jazzarchives, Hancock's addition as a jazz-rock fusion artist would be a further step for this being qualityarchives.  I hope he's included soon -- like Davis, he's been "on the table" for a long time.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 16:48
gave some fresh listens  to HH the last couple of days...listening to Man-child as I type actually Thumbs%20Up  couldn't agree more with his addition

Cheers Martin...  your post was dead on. If you need any help with adding.. let me know. Clap


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 17:49
Man-Child is fantastic. Im trying to find my copy of Flood (one of the best live albums ever made!) but I may give up and just put it on on my iPod

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


me neither. I have the song 'rockit' cause it is a cool song, but i dont have that album, or any of his 80s albums, minus a couple of jazz albums. his 90s stuff is cool, there's a few gems in there. lately, he's been playing a lot of jazz, and revisiting his Headhunters days live. I havent heard the Joni Letters yet, so i dont know how that is. Hancock has always been about quality, even his 80s stuff is quality music, just not what im looking for right now.


I still don't know his 90's period beyond certain, but what I've heard is definitely good.  Incidentally, though I do think Hancock suitable for the jazz-rock fusion category due to the qualities of his music, if he weren't of that quality, I wouldn't care.  Going go back about a comment made about lack of interest because this is progarchives, not jazzarchives, Hancock's addition as a jazz-rock fusion artist would be a further step for this being qualityarchives.  I hope he's included soon -- like Davis, he's been "on the table" for a long time.


i personally feel he belongs here for many reasons i stated before. I know this is not 'jazz archives' or 'quality achives' LOL but Hancock's addition is a must in order to have a complete jazz-rock/fusion section. I feel Hancock has all the prog qualities you need to be on this site. There are many moments of 'proggines' in his music, especially from 1968 to about 1979 or 1980. And his music always went somewhere, they weren't just long jams and "epic jazz odysseys", there was reprises of the themes, melodies, harmonies, complex time signatures, complex rhythms, even long suite's. And there are many synth sounds, and progressive ways of using keyboards that no one else had done before. If I were talking about a nobody prog band from east Europe and used this same description, there'd be no problem adding them.

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 18:05
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I'm surprised there hasnt been more support on this site.. Cry
 
Could it be because this is Prog Archives and not Jazz Archives. Wink
 
Iván


the main point of this site is to be the most complete archives. I've just felt in the last couple of years that the jazz-rock section was not complete, because of certain key artists missing (Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock) and only recently have I been trying to fix that. I'm not trying to add every jazz artists who dabbled in jazz-rock, I think those 2 were the only missing links for a complete jazz-rock/fusion section on this site.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 18:23
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Man-Child is fantastic. Im trying to find my copy of Flood (one of the best live albums ever made!) but I may give up and just put it on on my iPod

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


me neither. I have the song 'rockit' cause it is a cool song, but i dont have that album, or any of his 80s albums, minus a couple of jazz albums. his 90s stuff is cool, there's a few gems in there. lately, he's been playing a lot of jazz, and revisiting his Headhunters days live. I havent heard the Joni Letters yet, so i dont know how that is. Hancock has always been about quality, even his 80s stuff is quality music, just not what im looking for right now.


I still don't know his 90's period beyond certain, but what I've heard is definitely good.  Incidentally, though I do think Hancock suitable for the jazz-rock fusion category due to the qualities of his music, if he weren't of that quality, I wouldn't care.  Going go back about a comment made about lack of interest because this is progarchives, not jazzarchives, Hancock's addition as a jazz-rock fusion artist would be a further step for this being qualityarchives.  I hope he's included soon -- like Davis, he's been "on the table" for a long time.


i personally feel he belongs here for many reasons i stated before. I know this is not 'jazz archives' or 'quality achives' LOL but Hancock's addition is a must in order to have a complete jazz-rock/fusion section. I feel Hancock has all the prog qualities you need to be on this site. There are many moments of 'proggines' in his music, especially from 1968 to about 1979 or 1980. And his music always went somewhere, they weren't just long jams and "epic jazz odysseys", there was reprises of the themes, melodies, harmonies, complex time signatures, complex rhythms, even long suite's. And there are many synth sounds, and progressive ways of using keyboards that no one else had done before. If I were talking about a nobody prog band from east Europe and used this same description, there'd be no problem adding them.


very well said btw...

and yes.. this is prog archives..  the home of prog....  forget about the bullsh*t with prog 'rock' that barn door was ripped off the hinges long ago. Prog includes jazz, metal, pop, folk, and electronic.  Pointless to even really argue about. It ain't ever going back.. who would want it to...  exploration.. discovery.. that is the name of the game brothers...


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 18:27
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Man-Child is fantastic. Im trying to find my copy of Flood (one of the best live albums ever made!) but I may give up and just put it on on my iPod

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Mwandishi must be one of my next purchases.  Not that relevant to discussion, but I really love his early years jazz period.  Not that keen on the direction he took in the 80s from what I know.


me neither. I have the song 'rockit' cause it is a cool song, but i dont have that album, or any of his 80s albums, minus a couple of jazz albums. his 90s stuff is cool, there's a few gems in there. lately, he's been playing a lot of jazz, and revisiting his Headhunters days live. I havent heard the Joni Letters yet, so i dont know how that is. Hancock has always been about quality, even his 80s stuff is quality music, just not what im looking for right now.


I still don't know his 90's period beyond certain, but what I've heard is definitely good.  Incidentally, though I do think Hancock suitable for the jazz-rock fusion category due to the qualities of his music, if he weren't of that quality, I wouldn't care.  Going go back about a comment made about lack of interest because this is progarchives, not jazzarchives, Hancock's addition as a jazz-rock fusion artist would be a further step for this being qualityarchives.  I hope he's included soon -- like Davis, he's been "on the table" for a long time.


i personally feel he belongs here for many reasons i stated before. I know this is not 'jazz archives' or 'quality achives' LOL but Hancock's addition is a must in order to have a complete jazz-rock/fusion section. I feel Hancock has all the prog qualities you need to be on this site. There are many moments of 'proggines' in his music, especially from 1968 to about 1979 or 1980. And his music always went somewhere, they weren't just long jams and "epic jazz odysseys", there was reprises of the themes, melodies, harmonies, complex time signatures, complex rhythms, even long suite's. And there are many synth sounds, and progressive ways of using keyboards that no one else had done before. If I were talking about a nobody prog band from east Europe and used this same description, there'd be no problem adding them.


You know him better than I, something I plan to remedy, but yes, absolutely.  For his progressive jazz-rock/ fusion he should be on the site.  I have long wanted him here -- even if he wasn't of the same quality, it would still be a worthy addition.  That qualityarchives started in my head as a little joke (a term I've used before as a little Prog put-down).  Had wanted to do this to Ivan's post as a tongue-in-cheek correction (due to certain implications):

Quote
Could it be because this is Prog Archives and not Jazz Quality Archives. Wink


 I think Hancock is on a much higher level than most artists in the archives (and I tend to put jazz on a higher pedestal than Prog generally-speaking even though I love Progressive Rock, and of course I put Prog on a much higher pedestal than rock generally).  Aside from him being suitable for the site, which he is, I like the idea of having these great progressive artists here (it raises the bar in a way even if there are distinct camps in PA).

And regarding Micky's post: I want Coltrane in, and he's not even rock (I desire a progressive non-rock category).

Originally posted by Micky Micky wrote:

and yes.. this is prog archives..  the home of prog....  forget about the bullsh*t with prog 'rock' that barn door was ripped off the hinges long ago. Prog includes jazz, metal, pop, folk, and electronic.  Pointless to even really argue about. It ain't ever going back.. who would want it to...  exploration.. discovery.. that is the name of the game brothers...


You should have been a preacher, Micky. LOL  In this case, I expect you're mostly preaching to the converted.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 19:01
don't worry Greg...  sure Coltrane will make it some day.. but not before Brubeck... or Stan Kenton if I have any say in it LOL  Just like PM related addtions.. there is a pecking order.. a logical sequence.. and those two laid the foundation. 

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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 19:16
^ makes sense to me.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 20:44
im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 20:48
^ it's up to the JR/F Team, who happen to be one of the most - if not the most - qualified teams on the site.. I think the decision is in good hands




Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 21:54
i should be on the JR/F team Wink

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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 22:28
Well if you're going to add Herbie (and basically I have only minor objections to that), better get someone on the Keith Jarrett shift.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 23:20
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

i should be on the JR/F team Wink


hahahha... in a funny way... you are....  like me.. just unofficially.LOL  The J-R/F team works unlike any other here I've noticed.. that comes from having two real, true,  experts on the 'team'. One of the best examples of how the site should work in the truest sense of a collaborative site.


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 23:22
Joe Zawinul (sp?), Wayne Shorter and Larry Young (who is already on so many albums on this site ie Santana, Miles, McLaughlin and Tony Williams Lifetime)should be added next. This has less to do with personal taste, but more with following the flow of ongoing additions and their relationship with people already on PA.

Also, I appreciate the idea of allowing progressive jazz fusion on this site and discluding that huge glut of mundane jazz fusion. In that spirit I would like to recommend the spin-offs from Herbie's most progressive band, Sextant, and would like to recommend solo albums by Bennie Maupin, Eddie Henderson and Julian Priester. Our good friend 'Roctapus' should be able to help with that.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 23:26
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 





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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 23:46
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 

 
That's been my only ? with regard to Herbie.  In one sense he clearly belongs, in another sense he's more funk a la Sly or with the earlier stuff (Sextant) who knows what.   But I'm thinking when Sly was booked at Woodstock no one was thinking genres.  It was rock.  I mean, ya didn't see the Temptations there, unless my memory (always suspect) is failing me. 


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 00:14
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.
Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 

 

That's been my only ? with regard to Herbie.  In one sense he clearly belongs, in another sense he's more funk a la Sly or with the earlier stuff (Sextant) who knows what.   But I'm thinking when Sly was booked at Woodstock no one was thinking genres.  It was rock.  I mean, ya didn't see the Temptations there, unless my memory (always suspect) is failing me. 




Well it's too damn bad the Mighty Tempts were'nt invited to Woodstock cos that would have been one hell of a party, by the way, while rockers were going through their 'progressive' phase in the early 70s, it was the same with many 'soul' artists, witness many lengthy multi-part psychedelic compositions recorded during the early 70s by the forementioned Temptations, Isaac Hayes and others.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 02:16
 ^ funny you mention Hayes, a friend just played me ...To Be Continued  (1970)  and I was quite surprised to see several songs well over ten minutes, and the strange 15-minute 'Medly:Ike's Mood l'   Confused  Cool




Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 02:27
I like the two album soundtrack from Shaft. Lots of cool orchestrated semi-psychedelic RnB/jazz grooves. A friend of mine used to do repair work on Hayes' Mellotron and that weird multi-pedaled RMI kybd from the early 70s.


Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 03:02
Just heard his three albums from '70 to '72 and I'm not too keen on them. Nowhere near as song-oriented as I like. Confused

That being typed, I didn't hear much in the way of prog, unless jazz-fusion is prog by definition.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 03:08
 ^ I think the real question is;  is jazz-fusion a part of jazz rock/fusion, and by association, prog



Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 07:13
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 

 

That's been my only ? with regard to Herbie.  In one sense he clearly belongs, in another sense he's more funk a la Sly or with the earlier stuff (Sextant) who knows what.   But I'm thinking when Sly was booked at Woodstock no one was thinking genres.  It was rock.  I mean, ya didn't see the Temptations there, unless my memory (always suspect) is failing me. 


exactly why I used Sly is an example Clap  'Rock'?  what is it anyway...  has different meaning for different people.  Steely Dan was mentioned by Richard once as being a regular fixture on Jazz-Rock broadcasts on radio...  yet how many would label their music.. pop rather than rock..far too many I'm afraid

see rock as a more general terms than just screaming geetars.  Rock is a HUGE umbrella.. and always has been.. your Woodstock example being perfect. Clap


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 07:37
Having said that, you guys really need to look at early Earth Wind and Fire. They're on Progressive Ears. EW&F live in the mid 70s was one of the most progressive shows I have ever seen, right up there with Genesis (when they were good) and King Crimson.

Extended compositions, complex harmonies, very new and modern song writing style, best horns and vocals in the business and killer polyrhythmic percussion. Their live show was an extended modern jazz/RnB African flavored symphony, hard to tell when one song started and the other ended.

Of course they went commercial later, even working with our beloved Phil, Tony and Mike hit machine (kiss of death).


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 08:58
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 

 
That's been my only ? with regard to Herbie.  In one sense he clearly belongs, in another sense he's more funk a la Sly or with the earlier stuff (Sextant) who knows what.   But I'm thinking when Sly was booked at Woodstock no one was thinking genres.  It was rock.  I mean, ya didn't see the Temptations there, unless my memory (always suspect) is failing me. 
 
I'd say I'd do the bio if no-one else volunteeredWink, but I rreally have enough todo right now.... so f anyone feels like it..... BE MY GUESTSmile
 
 
I think that it's important to highlight his Mwansishi era/band (that's Mwandishi, Crossings ans Sextant) and his Head Hunters era/days. Let's not include the non-Hancocck  Headhunters albums, though.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:23
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Having said that, you guys really need to look at early Earth Wind and Fire. They're on Progressive Ears. EW&F live in the mid 70s was one of the most progressive shows I have ever seen, right up there with Genesis (when they were good) and King Crimson.

Extended compositions, complex harmonies, very new and modern song writing style, best horns and vocals in the business and killer polyrhythmic percussion. Their live show was an extended modern jazz/RnB African flavored symphony, hard to tell when one song started and the other ended.

Of course they went commercial later, even working with our beloved Phil, Tony and Mike hit machine (kiss of death).


great suggestion John ... will kick that upstairs.. see what they think.




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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:25
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

im down for Brubeck and Coltrane, but i wont be upset if they arent added. I can understand why a lot of people would prefer they NOT get added. But i'd be happy if they did. Im kinda neutral i guess.

btw, is Hancock still being looked at, or is it just a waiting game now? it seems most people want him here, and there have been many good arguments for addition.


Hugues has asked to do the bio....  when given the go ahead.. he'll be added.  There have been many good arguments, none more so than by Martin.. by  those who know the music.. agree for the most part. The only sticky point seems to be  the 'rock' aspect...  but what is 'rock' anyway...  that has different meanings to different people.   Sly and the Family Stone for example... Funk?... Rock?...  both?... ask lots of people.. will get lots of answers.   That is what we have experts and genre teams for.. to make those subtle distinctions. 

 
That's been my only ? with regard to Herbie.  In one sense he clearly belongs, in another sense he's more funk a la Sly or with the earlier stuff (Sextant) who knows what.   But I'm thinking when Sly was booked at Woodstock no one was thinking genres.  It was rock.  I mean, ya didn't see the Temptations there, unless my memory (always suspect) is failing me. 
 
I'd say I'd do the bio if no-one else volunteeredWink, but I rreally have enough todo right now.... so f anyone feels like it..... BE MY GUESTSmile
 
 
I think that it's important to highlight his Mwansishi era/band (that's Mwandishi, Crossings ans Sextant) and his Head Hunters era/days. Let's not include the non-Hancocck  Headhunters albums, though.


hahaha. sorry Hugues.. I must have misread you. 

Any takers.. if not.. I'll do it

and I agree..  the non-Hancock Headhunters is not included.


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:46
I'll do the Herbie bio if no one else wants to, I don't want to elbow out you or Darkshade though.

Check it out, first Sancious review up and running, prog meets jazz fusion just like Ivan and Mike were looking for.


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:55
Well, I guess at least all this means that you'll also have to accept Jamiroquai.Big%20smile


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:57
why not.. you accepted Blind Guardian didn't you....LOL

you are in no position to be a smart ass Mike....Wink


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 16:58
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

I'll do the Herbie bio if no one else wants to, I don't want to elbow out you or Darkshade though.

Check it out, first Sancious review up and running, prog meets jazz fusion just like Ivan and Mike were looking for.


go ahead John was hoping someone would take it.. it's yours... working on additions of my own now..

checking out the review Clap 


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 17:00
AngryThis is getting ridiculous.........

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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 17:25
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

I'll do the Herbie bio if no one else wants to, I don't want to elbow out you or Darkshade though.

Check it out, first Sancious review up and running, prog meets jazz fusion just like Ivan and Mike were looking for.


go ahead John was hoping someone would take it.. it's yours... working on additions of my own now..

checking out the review Clap 
 
Ha Micky now you're quoting Miles' song titles (from Big Fun).  I just knew it would come to this Big%20smile


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 18:10
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

why not.. you accepted Blind Guardian didn't you....LOL

you are in no position to be a smart ass Mike....Wink


I'm not joking ... Jamiroquai is worth serious consideration. Have you listened to Emergency on Planet Earth?


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 18:42
I haven't...   but have never heard them associated with jazz. .or fusion... much less prog.  We are delving into 'classic' era J-R/F groups here anyway. Following a linear line of reasoning with proposals, musically, and time-line wise.

I'll check them out though....


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 18:46
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

why not.. you accepted Blind Guardian didn't you....LOL

you are in no position to be a smart ass Mike....Wink


I'm not joking ... Jamiroquai is worth serious consideration. Have you listened to Emergency on Planet Earth?
 
Definitely not prog but Jamiroquai have funk and jazz all over it.


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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 18:50
Originally posted by Chris Stacey Chris Stacey wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

why not.. you accepted Blind Guardian didn't you....LOL

you are in no position to be a smart ass Mike....Wink


I'm not joking ... Jamiroquai is worth serious consideration. Have you listened to Emergency on Planet Earth?
 
Definitely not prog but Jamiroquai have funk and jazz all over it.


I have heard something from them... MTV kind of thing LOL wasn't that group with the dude with the funny hat... 


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 22:17
Hey Michael, who should I send that bio to, you or Martin, not like it's done yet.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 22:22
take your time... Martin might be a bit melted down from all the attention we've given them hahahha.  Plus I've dropped the recently added Steely Dan in his lap,LOL we added them, but were sort of clear we thought J-R was the best fit.  Not sure it fits the scope of what they want J-R to be though. Which is cool with me.   Xover works just as well.  Fits J-R musically... Xover in what people see outside of the music.

Send it to me.. and if Martin wants to handle the addition himself.. I'll pass it on to him.

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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 00:15
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

why not.. you accepted Blind Guardian didn't you....LOL

you are in no position to be a smart ass Mike....Wink


I'm not joking ... Jamiroquai is worth serious consideration. Have you listened to Emergency on Planet Earth?


Dead


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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 04:29
Obviously not ... Wink


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 05:28
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


I have heard something from Jamiroquai... MTV kind of thing LOL wasn't that group with the dude with the funny hat... 


Come on guys ... you expect us to take you seriously with adding Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock ... how about giving us the same kind of respect?

Here ... listen to this:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=HBeItZuw6yk - http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=HBeItZuw6yk

EDIT: Or this: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcejqSFym8&feature=related - http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcejqSFym8&feature=related

Smile


Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 09:35
[QUOTE=micky]   Plus I've dropped the recently added Steely Dan in his lap,LOL we added them,

ClapClapClap
Clap



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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 14:57
I'm really not for this: include all kinds of exiting music of whatever genre. Until this place changes its name to Progressive Music Archives, I'm sticking with wanting to add artists with some relation to (progressive) rock, not just any relation to popular music in any time.

Just like Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock makes perfect sense. They're both important figures and pioneers of progressive jazzrock-fusion (HH, also progressive electronic) and made plenty of essential albums in this genre. Coltrane and Brubeck (+ Jamiroquai) are not/did not.

BTW: If you haven't: Listen to Sextant, (or Crossings, Headhunters)!

Bbtw: Rockit is pure genious!




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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 16:39
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Well if you're going to add Herbie (and basically I have only minor objections to that), better get someone on the Keith Jarrett shift.


did he make jazz-rock solo albums? cause the only stuff i have by him is straight jazz, and i know he wasnt too keen on electric instruments and jazz-rock in general, at least while he was playing with Miles Davis...

if he did, then there's no reason why he shouldnt be here.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 19:10
Judging by the people already here, and their relationship with them, the next people to be added should be Larry Young, Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter.


Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 19:15
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Judging by the people already here, and their relationship with them, the next people to be added should be Larry Young, Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter.


more specifically, Joe Zawinul & The Zawinul Syndicate Thumbs%20Up


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 19:18
we need to start a thread or something where suggestions can be managed..  and you all decide which ones I'll bring to the team.  Since they are not like other teams... and don't spend a great deal of time here like some teams have members do...  I have taken the unofficial team position as proposer.. and instigator...  you all can help me by giving me good logical suggestions... no offense to MeR but that Jamiroquai suggestion doesn't fit the scope and era we are working on... time to catch up on the real J-R/F innovators and movers and shakers.. then maybe later the ones who might have borrowed from them.

unofficially closing this thread for suggestions/discussion...  making a thread for that...  where you guys can decide what bands you think are pressing to be considered by the two of them.


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The Diet Coke of Evil....


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 21:39
Thanks, where's the new thread.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 21:43
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51234 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51234

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The Diet Coke of Evil....



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