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Major Upgrade to the Forum Engine

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Internal news
Forum Description: Stay informed about the latest updates regarding the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52663
Printed Date: January 16 2018 at 17:02
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Major Upgrade to the Forum Engine
Posted By: [email protected]
Subject: Major Upgrade to the Forum Engine
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 00:23
Hi,

I just completed an important upgrade to the forum web wiz forum engine .

Please report issues in that thread. Thank you.

Here's the modificiations since v9.06 to the actual 9.53 version.

Important one in RED


Version 9.53 (3rd October 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. RTE_popup_adv_image.asp - fixed bug that would not allow image uploading
3. RTE_popup_file_atch.asp - fixed bug that would not allow file uploading
4. register.asp - fixed file corruption
5. functions/functions_filters.asp - fixed file corruption


Version 9.52 (2nd October 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. search_process.asp - fixed quotation bug
3. forum_posts.asp - improved dynamic keywords
4. functions/functions_common.asp - improved keywords security and reliability and moved SQL Injection Test
5. includes/setup_options_inc.asp - updated to allow physical server paths to be used for logging
6. functions/functions_common.asp - same as above
7. new_post.asp - fixed bug that would course the email component to throw an exception if the email address was blank
8. show_post.asp - same as above
9. functions/functions_filters.asp - improved HTML striping function for improved description tags
10. functions/functions_common.asp - added support for AppleWebKit browser engine (Safari & Google Chrome) WYSIWYG RTE Editor
11. functions/functions_common.asp - updated to identify iPhone, iPod, and Google Chrome for active users list
12. includes/RTE_toolbar_inc.asp - updated spell checking
13. RTE_javascript.asp - updated for support for AppleWebKit browser engine (Safari & Google Chrome)
14. RTE_configuration/RTE_setup.asp - updated RTE Version number
15. functions/functions_filters.asp - improved image alt property and also added support for image title property
16. pm_email_pm.asp - updated to improved support for authenticated mail servers
17. email_messenger.asp - updated to improved support for authenticated mail servers
18. email_topic.asp - updated to improved support for authenticated mail servers
19. language_files/language_file_inc.asp - added new text for improved email message information and toolbar button
20. HttpAPI.asp - updated to HTTP XML API version 1.02, and replaced misspelled suspended response
21. admin_update_check.asp - updated to improve layout and include the edition information
22. includes/RTE_toolbar_inc.asp - corrected text for insert movie button in editor toolbar
23. admin_import_members.asp - improved member import tool
24. language _files/calendar_language_file_inc.asp - fixed spelling mistake on line 46
25. includes/status_bar_header_inc.asp - updated to improve icon links
26. RTE_popup_adv_image.asp - updated to allow image uploading in Private Messages if member is allowed
27. RTE_popup_file_atch.asp - fixed permissions error when attaching file to Private Message
28. RTE_popup_movie_preview.asp - improved the way YouTube movies are displayed in the Preview window
29. RTE_popup_movie.asp - improved the way YouTube BBcodes are formatted and the way the Preview window is sent data
30. mssql_server_setup.asp - improved database setup file to not check that the database is not already created
31. mysql_server_setup.asp - same as above
32. admin_register.asp - changed so that when Windows Authentication/Active Directory is enabled can not place members into the admin group
33. functions/functions_windows_authentication.asp - updated documentation


Version 9.51 (29th August 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. function/functions_common.asp - fixed issue were hidden topic subjects would be displayed to non moderator and admins in forum stats
3. function/functions_common.asp - improved unread posts feature for larger forums
4. function/functions_common.asp - improved browser and OS detection for active users table
5. get_last_post.asp - fixed server error when topic count gets above 32,000
6. database/database_connection.asp - set new variable to enable advanced paging for massive performance boost for SQL Server 2005/2008 and mySQL
7. includes/page_link_inc.asp - updated to support new paging
8. function/functions_common.asp - add new function to create dynamic keywords for pages
9. forum_posts.asp - added advanced paging for massive performance boost for SQL Server 2005/2008 and mySQL and added dynamic meta tags
10. includes/quick_reply_form_inc.asp - updated to work with new paging system
11. active_topics.asp - same as above
12. admin_select_members.asp - same as above
13. ajax_email_notify.asp - same as above
14. calendar.asp - same as above
15. forum_topics.asp - same as above
16. members.asp - same as above
17. pm_buddy_list.asp - same as above
18. pm_inbox.asp - same as above
19. pm_outbox.asp - same as above
20. pre_approved_topics.asp - same as above
21. search_results_posts.asp - same as above
22. search_results_topics.asp - same as above
23. active_topics.asp - added advanced paging for massive performance boost for SQL Server 2005/2008 and mySQL
24. forum_topics.asp - added advanced paging for massive performance boost for SQL Server 2005/2008 and mySQL and added dynamic meta tags
25. members.asp - added advanced paging for massive performance boost for SQL Server 2005/2008 and mySQL
26. pop_up_topic_admin.asp - updated to fix issue with latest myODBC 3.51 driver and moderator logging
27. delete_poll.asp - same as above
28. functions/functions_filters.asp - improved error handling
29. functions/functions_edit_post.asp - same as above
30. edit_post.asp - updated to fix issue with latest myODBC 3.51 driver
31. includes/global_variables_inc.asp - added new variable for selecting myODBC driver
32. database/database_connection.asp - updated to allow mySQL users to select which myODBC driver they wish to use and for advanced paging
33. admin_pm_configuration.asp - increased number of permitted Private Messages
34. new_post.asp - updated to send post approval notifications to admins and moderators
35. language_files/language_file_inc.asp - added text for new feature above
36. new_post.asp - now supports sending post approval email notifications to forum admins and moderators
37. show_post.asp - updated so the person approving the post doesn't get an email notification
38. logs - new folder to store log files for the forum
39. includes/setup_options_inc.asp - updated to allow the enabling of log files
40. functions/functions_common.asp - added new function for forum logging
41. register.asp - updated to add logging for new registration and moderator profile editing

42. new_post.asp - updated to add logging for new topics and replies
43. edit_post.asp - updated to add support for logging
44. delete_topic.asp - updated to add support for logging
45. hide_post.asp - updated to support moderator logging and fix forum statistics bug
46. show_post.asp - updated to support moderator logging
47. lock_topic.asp - updated to support moderator logging and added new statistics updating
48. pop_up_IP_blocking.asp - updated to support moderator logging

49. admin_upload_configure.asp - updated to support uploads of up to 30MB in size
50. admin_email_notify_configure.asp - updated to link to the server compatibility test page to test to see what components are installed on the server
51. RTE_popup_movie.asp - new file for adding YouTube and Flash BBcodes
52. RTE_popup_movie_preview.asp - used with new file above to preview movie
53. language_files/RTE_language_file_inc.asp - updated to support new movie popup
54. functions/functions_common.asp - added new SQL Injection test
55. forum_images/post_button_movie.gif - new image for RTE Toolbar
56. includes/RTE_toolbar_inc.asp - updated to add new toolbar button to add YouTube and Adobe Flash movies to posts
57. functions/functions_format_post.asp - increased default Adobe Flash movie size to 250
58. file_upload.asp - updated to support file display after upload and now defaults to image uploads as these are more common
59. file_manager.asp - after uploading a file or image now returns the user to the file manager displaying the upload in the preview window

60. The following files have been updated to support the myODBC 5.1 database driver for mySQL
admin_activate.asp
admin_calendar_configuration.asp
admin_close_forums.asp
admin_email_domain_blocking.asp
admin_email_notify_configure.asp
admin_forum_details.asp
admin_group_details.asp
admin_group_permissions.asp
admin_import_members.asp
admin_ip_blocking.asp
admin_pm_configuration.asp
admin_register.asp
admin_skin_configure.asp
admin_spam_configure.asp
admin_suspend_registration.asp
admin_upload_configure.asp
admin_web_wiz_forums_configuration.asp
delete_post.asp
edit_post.asp
email_notify.asp
forgotten_password.asp
HttpAPI.asp
lock_topic.asp
move_post.asp
pm_add_buddy.asp
poll_cast_vote.asp
pop_up_IP_blocking.asp
register.asp

61. The following files have been updated to check querystrings for SQL Injection virus attacks
forum_posts.asp
printer_friendly_posts.asp
forum_topics.asp
default.asp
pre_approved_topics.asp
active_topics
calendar.asp
calendar_year.asp
calendar_week.asp
search_process.asp

Version 9.50 (1st May 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. mark_posts_as_read.asp - fix potential XSS security issue
3. admin_register.asp - fixed issue that would not allow the admin to update user profiles when the existing member API is enabled
4. register.asp - same as above
5. includes/global_variables_inc.asp - added new options and fixed various bugs that would cause crashes if incorrect path settings were entered
6. admin_calendar_configuration.asp - new file for calendar settings
7. admin_pm_configuration.asp - new file for configuring private messaging
8. admin_menu.asp - add new settings options
9. includes/admin_index_inc.asp - same as above
10. admin_skin_configure.asp - fixed bug that would cause crash if incorrect paths were set
11. admin_skin_configure.asp - updated so that if you change the default skin and have a custom banner logo for your forum, the banner logo does not get altered
12. includes/status_bar_header_inc.asp - removed google ads, unless you want your own google ads
13. includes/pm_check_inc.asp - updated for limited use in free edition
14. pm_welcome.asp - same as above
15. pm_new_message.asp - same as above
16. pm_welcome.asp - same as above
17. pm_inbox.asp - same as above
18. functions/functions_filters.asp - improved cleanup of HTMLsafe(TM) security filters
19. functions/functions_upload.asp - improved upload for images created in Adobe
20. functions/unsafe_HTML_tags_inc.asp - updated to remove extra HTML and Scripting that could be used to launch malicious code
21. functions/functions_format_post.asp - improved YouTube support fix potential XSS security issue for both YouTube and Adobe Flash
22. CAPTCHA_image.asp - updated to Web Wiz CAPTCHA version 4.0 - for more info see www.WebWizCAPTCHA.com
23. functions/functions_common.asp - improved browser and OS detection
34. functions/functions_date_time_format.asp - now shows 'Today' date in bold
35. includes/setup_options_inc.asp - updated to support new 'Today' date above

36. default.asp - updated to display last posted topic subject in new location and in bold if the post is unread since last visit
37. forum_topics.asp - updated to show unread topics in bold
38. active_topics.asp - updated to show unread topics in bold
39. language _files/language_file_inc.asp - renamed Active Topics to New Posts
40. HttpAPI.asp - fixed issue in the XML HTTP API
41. forum_posts.asp - improved performance
42. functions/functions_windows_authentication.asp - updated file
43. admin_update_check.asp - new file to check for updates to Web Wiz Forums
44. RTE_popup_about.asp - fixed height issue
45. includes/CAPTCHA_form_inc.asp - updated info comments

Version 9.08 (23rd January 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. RTE_file_browser.asp - fixed security vulnerability
3. file_browser.asp - fixed security vulnerability
4. functions/functions_common.asp - add new conversion functions to support the HTTP XML API
5. httpAPI.asp - fixed errors that would occur on some methods requiring data type conversions

Version 9.07 (7th January 2008)

1. includes/version_inc.asp - updated version number
2. functions/functions_upload.asp - fixed upload image issue when images are created in Adobe Photoshop
4. includes/setup_options_inc.asp - added new option to disable the HTTP XML API
5. HttpAPI.asp - new HTTP XML API


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Prog On !



Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 00:35
great [email protected], thanks for all the hard work




Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 01:21
Holy crap [email protected]! That's awesome! Clap


We're all eternally grateful Thumbs Up


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 03:44
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

great [email protected], thanks for all the hard work




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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 04:49
Just goes to show how hard mailto:[email protected] - [email protected]  and Phil work behind the scenes for all our benefit.Clap


Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:03
And I very much like the changes I've seen so far. Great stuff!


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:08
Sounds great but where's Active Topics gone?


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:08
There is, though, one bug I noticed trying to open "The Stranglers" and two recently made polls; upon opening them, I get the message

Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0006'

Overflow: 'CInt'

/FORUM/includes/poll_display_inc.asp, line 150

while the rest of the page doesn't load.

Pretty sure it has to do with polls overall, I can't open a single topic in the "Prog Polls" section - plus I believe the topic about "Stranglers" has also a poll.



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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:13
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Sounds great but where's Active Topics gone?

OK, found it. It's now called New Posts.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:14
Yep, all the polls are buggered (technically speaking).


Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:24
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0006'

Overflow: 'CInt'

/FORUM/includes/poll_display_inc.asp, line 150



Can you confirm that it'S working now , I may have fixed it


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Prog On !


Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:33
It's working now,Max.

Thanks for your all of your hard work

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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:36
Hmmm, unable to log in to the admin control panel now - previously it logged in via the forum and then sent me to the admin panel, now it just gets stuck in the forums.

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Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:48
Polls working. Thanks [email protected]!

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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 05:48
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Hmmm, unable to log in to the admin control panel now - previously it logged in via the forum and then sent me to the admin panel, now it just gets stuck in the forums.


Same here.


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Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 07:02
The ADMIN CONTROL PANEL access big is now fixed. Please report issues here.
Sorry for the troubles.

Thank you




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Prog On !


Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 09:27
Well, there goes my sig again. Time to renew, anyway.

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Bigger on the inside.


Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:05
Is it just me, or is all the text several points larger? I liked it better before.
 
It also appears that sig resizing is gone, in favor of a tiny scroll bar for the huge picture. While that solves the problem of having to scroll past 500 pixels to read somebody's post, it's still not nice for the people with slow/limited internet.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 15:08
[email protected], there was always a "quick login" box below the top bar, in the right side (precisely, below the actually login button). Any chance you could but that back up or was it one of the features designed to be removed?

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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 15:18
When I click on Forum Search < ="" ="text/">document.write('Search')Search) search_form.asp - Search , I am only getting that search function with limited parameters/ functionality (and even then it's not working properly).  However, this one still works properly -->  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp

EDIT: When I click on the Search hypertext link above copied from
Member Control Panel  member_control_panel.asp - Member Control Panel   0 New Messages pm_welcome.asp - 0 New Messages
  FAQ help.asp - FAQ   Forum Search < ="" ="text/">document.write('Search')Search search_form.asp - Search   Calendar < ="" ="text/">document.write('Calendar')Calendar calendar.asp - Calendar
, it is taking me to the larger search form page, but when I click on it at the top of the forum page, it takes me to the quick search.  Problem on my end, perhaps.


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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Is it just me, or is all the text several points larger? I liked it better before.
 
It also appears that sig resizing is gone, in favor of a tiny scroll bar for the huge picture. While that solves the problem of having to scroll past 500 pixels to read somebody's post, it's still not nice for the people with slow/limited internet.
 
Oh its larger.
 
And I agree. I liked it better before. Looked more tidy and professional. I also don't like how certain threads titles are bolded.
 
But other than that, no major complaints.


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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 02:45
I see that my signature pictures exceed right now the signature frame. A bug?

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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 05:51
Ok, PA is giving me a headache. Yesterday all the text seemed bigger, but today... I simply can't see it without sticking my nose to the screen...
 
I need an aspirin.


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Bigger on the inside.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 05:55
 ^ LOL I know,  font fatigue




Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 06:25
^I quite like it, it gives me double the space for long reviews. Big smile
The emoticons, instead, grew substantially, they're like mascot heads now.


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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 06:43
[email protected]: I'd suggest restoring yesterdays font size (the current one is far too small), and fixing the signature size. Signatures like Rico's now end up covering the top half of the next post.

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http://www.hulshout.nl/rfm" rel="nofollow - My blog: Angelo's Rock Orphanage


Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 10:04
Done. Please comments if it's ok.



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Prog On !


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 10:07
along with that pending album stipend for collabs hahahha .. how about an eyeglasses stipend as well [email protected]    This font is giving me headaches hahahha

guess I am getting old


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I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 10:46
Quite login back, THANKS [email protected]!! Clap

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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:07
Originally posted by M@X [email protected] wrote:

Done. Please comments if it's ok.

It's still uglier. Is it hard to put it back the way it was before?


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 19:04
It is now back exactly like it was before now.

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Prog On !


Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 19:05
I oversaw an important color scheme change yesterday for like 1 minute.

Is it a future project or just an error?


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RIP in bossa nova heaven.


Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 19:07
Color scheme change is a low priority project for now.If i have free time I will try to integrate more of the traditionnal PA colors in the forum too ...yestreday - it was a quick test. Geek


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Prog On !


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 19:47
my eyes thank you [email protected] Clap

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I find your lack of Bassoon disturbing.....


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 03:16
I think the reviews section looked much better, the forum format was the challengeSmile

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 03:32
Many thanks for the huge amount of work, Max

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 15:14
How is someone from the mid 16th century supposed to understand all this ????

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               †


Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 16:10
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

How is someone from the mid 16th century supposed to understand all this ????


Not at all, they should either be dead, or enjoying their Philospher's Stone on a distant island without internet. Wink


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http://www.hulshout.nl/rfm" rel="nofollow - My blog: Angelo's Rock Orphanage


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: June 23 2011 at 21:39
Trying to insert a tunecore flash widget into a post using the "insert movie" feature in the post reply, select "adobe flash" as the movie type, and paste the embedding code into the appropriate field. When I show the preview it looks perfect each time. However every time I actually post the reply all that shows in the finished article is the code that is supposed to embed the widget, but no widget!! Tried about 8 times, same result always. What am I doing wrong????


Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: June 23 2011 at 21:45
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Trying to insert a tunecore flash widget into a post using the "insert movie" feature in the post reply, select "adobe flash" as the movie type, and paste the embedding code into the appropriate field. When I show the preview it looks perfect each time. However every time I actually post the reply all that shows in the finished article is the code that is supposed to embed the widget, but no widget!! Tried about 8 times, same result always. What am I doing wrong????

 
You might want to ask that in a different section and not a three year old thread...


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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 24 2011 at 04:36
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:



Trying to insert a tunecore flash widget into a post using the "insert movie" feature in the post reply, select "adobe flash" as the movie type, and paste the embedding code into the appropriate field. When I show the preview it looks perfect each time. However every time I actually post the reply all that shows in the finished article is the code that is supposed to embed the widget, but no widget!! Tried about 8 times, same result always. What am I doing wrong????


Have you tried [ flash] [ / flash]. Without the space after the first bracket?

I can't check as I am using my iPad.
Flash a-ah!!!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 24 2011 at 06:08
^ you have to put the actual URL of the flash widget inbetween the flash BBCodes, the height and width are parameters of the BBCode, eg
 
 
[FLASH WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=400]http://widget.tunecore.com/swf/tc_run_v_v2.swf?widget_id=54013[/FLASH]
 
which will look like this:


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"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: June 24 2011 at 09:46
Thanks for this Dean. If I'd looked more closely at the embedding code, and realised that the dialogue box in the Progarchives "add movie" feature was asking for just the actual URL, & not the whole thing, I should have been able to work this out.
 
We learn something new every day!  Thumbs Up


Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 11:54
Probably not the place to mention this but all previous ''search function'' threads are locked and I don't want to start a new thread, but I notice that now when you do a band or album search from the homepage a small picture of the band or album also appears. Nice! Clap


Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 13:37
That is due to Google, not PA I believe.

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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 13:50
Not to mention it oft chooses the wrong picture to display. Many times when searching for an album it will display a random reviewer's avatar rather than the album art... Ermm

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http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 14:27
I think it's a random choice of an image on the page

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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 21:54
Originally posted by Deathrabbit Deathrabbit wrote:

I think it's a random choice of an image on the page

It can't be random, I got TGM: Orb's avatar for CTTE, SEBTP, ITCOTCK, Animals and WYWH, and I got Conor Fynes, MovingPictures07, and progaardvark's avatars for a bunch of albums that I didn't bother recording.

But yeah, almost all of the ones I checked did not have the album art as the first result, and that is Google's attempt at being helpful, not ours.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: November 11 2011 at 22:21
I get my avatar for Systematic Chaos Cool

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http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 14:07
Wink


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http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm


Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 04:17
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Wink

Well that was a pointless post.


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if you own a sodastream i hate you


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 11:22
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Wink

Well that was a pointless post.
So was yours Sax man

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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:44
Oops.Embarrassed I was testing if I can shrink emoticons and meant to delete it, then forgot.

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http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 15:06
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Oops.Embarrassed I was testing if I can shrink emoticons and meant to delete it, then forgot.

I can't do it.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 15:24
Apparently you can't delete posts in this section.




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http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 15:35
^ Nope....found that out a while back.


Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 15:41
Wink

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 15:43
Finished pissing about?

-------------
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 00:14
I don't know if I found corect page to writte about, but where disappear the list wit 100 reviewers from front page????


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:23
A list of Prog Reviewers with their respective number of reviews in descending order is available on the collaborators page. I can't see the purpose of duplicating this on the front page frankly. When I was in primary school our teacher would give out candy for the best homework, not the most homework.


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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:34
and where I can see that list, because I don't find it


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:37
http://www.progarchives.com/all_collaborators.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/all_collaborators.asp

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:45
ok I know that, but where is as Lemming said " number of reviews in descending order" there because I don't see a damn thing


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:54


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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:55
NB: I dont think you find yourself there - have never seen my own name on the list.
But im not sure.


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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 05:56
^ Yes but where is the review list?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:05
if you click the username (in this case snow dog) you get this :


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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:07
I know that. That isn't what he wants.LOL

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:11
LOL - I just dont understand the question
 
There is a list of the number of reviews in decending order - you can check every single review.
and some other statistic values, what more ? 


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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:18
^There used to be a list of the top 100 reviewers with how many reviews on the front page. Basically he wants that.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:24
Sound like we are talking politics now - in that case im out

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:34
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^There used to be a list of the top 100 reviewers with how many reviews on the front page. Basically he wants that.


yes that list with top 100 most prolific reviewers

what is so hard to understand, no one saw that list on the front page (only Snow Dog knows about) that ask so many questions, sorry to be rude here

practicaly since yesterday disappered from the blue


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:36
I just want to see that list, nothing more, was deleted or what????


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 06:58
To be a bit more precise here: Until yesterday a regular feature on the frontpage - www.progarchives.com - was a list of the 100 most prolific reviewers. Placed on the right border, a bit below the most recent additions and most popular albums if I remember correctly. That list has now suddenly gone missing.

Question is if it has been removed on purpose or by accident I guess ;-)


-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 08:16
Just noticed that as well...
 
Because I was looking for an album that Conor had reviewed and forgot the name, went to just click on his name off the top 100 list, gone.
 
Why oh puppet masters of PA? Why? My little math brain likes seeing my number go up and my name ascend the list. It's one of the few  pleasures in my nerdy life...
 
Well not really. But I did get 0.01 mcg of endophin from it.


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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 08:21
I got the picture now, sorry that I missed the point.
To me it sounded crystal clear form Lemmings post, that it was removed on purpose. 


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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 08:36
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

I got the picture now, sorry that I missed the point.
To me it sounded crystal clear form Lemmings post, that it was removed on purpose. 


Might be, but why do so within what seems to be a cloud of mystery then? A small announcement about removing it because it's not really useful anymore would have sufficed. Perhaps also opening up a small debate about ample use for the freed up space due to this revised layout...or informing about what use it'll be given if already mapped out ;-)


-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 09:42
Really unfortunate if it's permanent.  It was a nice little feather in the cap for the hard workers, a bit of recognition.  And it did have a gentle motivation effect, thus it encouraged reviewing.  A morale downer. Hopefully it is not permanent. 


Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 11:06
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Really unfortunate if it's permanent.  It was a nice little feather in the cap for the hard workers, a bit of recognition.  And it did have a gentle motivation effect, thus it encouraged reviewing.  A morale downer. Hopefully it is not permanent. 
Ditto, tbh it's one of the main reasons that I started seriously reviewing after I was promoted. A nice little add-on to the homepage indeed.
 


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http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 11:17

Upon whom do we brandish our pitchforks?



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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 13:13
my ranking Cry lost in the woods ...

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http://www.rivertree.de" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 15:07
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Upon whom do we brandish our pitchforks?



You brandish your tuned pitchforks upon the music listed on this site by providing detailed and informative reviews with substance that will make PA the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource. Wink

Yes, it was deliberate as the Top 100 Reviewers list was felt to contribute towards the steady decline in the standard of reviews being submitted for some considerable time. After all, the wrong type of competitive spirit engenders short cuts being taken and given the choice between good and hard work, we will always opt for the former. Like I said earlier in this thread, the information some of you seek i.e. a league table, is available on the collaborators page. A slew of flimsy reviews that tell you next to nothing about the subject matter is no better than zero reviews and strips the site of it's hard won credibility. We have a lot of brilliant reviewers on PA (including yourself) who will continue to make this site the 'first choice stop' for any inquisitive visitor.


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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 15:29
Well I've gotten back on the horse after a few months layoff...some backhanded compliments for whipping boy Toby Driver on the front page.

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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 15:41
Fair enough. One slight detail that might warrant inspection however. A fair few artists have gotten in touch with reviewers and basically used that frontapge list as a check list on whom to make first contact with. Some sort of -really easy to find option- should be provided for them on the frontpage, rather than sending them into the different tabs or forums looking for what - from an outsiders perspective - will be like finding a needle in a haystack.

I think I made a call for some sort of official Progarchives reviewers team to be assembled a few years back, that one might be worth considering again. A group of high quality reviewers that makes themselves available in a visible sport on the frontpage, saying a few words about their particular areas of interest for the ease of the artists as well as whatever label representatives that takes an interest in this site.


-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 16:06
 
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

 

You brandish your tuned pitchforks upon the music listed on this site by providing detailed and informative reviews with substance that will make PA the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource. Wink

Yes, it was deliberate as the Top 100 Reviewers list was felt to contribute towards the steady decline in the standard of reviews being submitted for some considerable time. After all, the wrong type of competitive spirit engenders short cuts being taken and given the choice between good and hard work, we will always opt for the former. Like I said earlier in this thread, the information some of you seek i.e. a league table, is available on the collaborators page. A slew of flimsy reviews that tell you next to nothing about the subject matter is no better than zero reviews and strips the site of it's hard won credibility. We have a lot of brilliant reviewers on PA (including yourself) who will continue to make this site the 'first choice stop' for any inquisitive visitor.

Excellent news. I don't mind. We are now awaiting yours and the powers that is version and definiton of "good" and "bad" in the context of PA. Please post them and do it right now. 

Remember: A cow is a cow in someones eyes and a disfigured sheep in someone else's eyes again. What is the right definition of a cow ?

Remember to think when you think. That will make your thoughts a lot more considered. 

So, what is "good" and what is "bad" ? Or is no reviews at all "good" ? Is a hospital without any patients a better run hospital than a hospital with patients ? 

Please report back with your findings and definitions within hours (which should be no problems for you since you must have known what you wrote). This is a " 'first choice stop' for any inquisitive visitor " and a centre for excellense. Not a place for cheap, nasty accusations. Like the ones yours may be mistaken for.

.......but the removal of the Top 100 reviewers is warmly supported by me. 




 

 



Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 16:29
I have taken it for granted that the Lemming and admin team know their Hanslick from start to finish, and easily can outline the merits of a good review versus a not good review at the blink of an eye ;-)


-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 16:34
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

I have taken it for granted that the Lemming and admin team know their Hanslick from start to finish, and easily can outline the merits of a good review versus a not good review at the blink of an eye ;-)

Fantastic. I am so happy to discover a place like PA who has solved the 100 000 years old quandrum in finding the difference between good and bad in abstract matters like opinions.




Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 16:47
We should rename them The Wise Ones

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 16:54
Oh well. There has been a call for words of wisdom from the learned sages. It'll be interesting to see if they will come down from their mountain and share their glorious knowledge with this small horde of uncouth, common barbarians.

-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 17:07

I fear we will end up with The Don Quixote Appreciation Society.

The lesson is: It is never a bad idea to think through things before they are posted. In particular when the opinions posted may be regarded as cheap personal attacks on the collabs, unfitting for a serious music website.


........Anyway, besides of thankfully getting rid of the top 100 collabs list, what are the other updates and improvements in this upgrade ?   

   

 



Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 17:25
To be a bit more serious: Why do the site have collabs if they aren't consulted in matters which directly or indirectly affects their actions? Or at a base minimum informed?

I can see a number of good reasons for why that list of top quantity reviewers was removed, that it deterred new reviewers due to the silly amounts of reviews written by the people on that list as of now one of the topmost. But as it was also a tool and resource for those with a less keen involvement in the site as such and at least to some extent an inspiration or handy tool for the collabs on that list, removing it does have negative side effects. And sugarcoating that decision is a move that should have been thought of beforehand.

Whatever reasonings that were made behind closed doors, and however sound they may have been, someone should have realized that you don't make people happy by punching them in their face, even if the punch is a light and delicate one. The action becomes more important than the effect itself in such instances.

In the long run not an important issue, probably not in the short run either. The handling of it a matter of more  concern than the action itself in my opinion.


-------------
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
http://framemusic.net/

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 17:46
I've been thinking about this all day, and the more I do, the more it pisses me off. LOL

It's really unfortunate, but not unlike many management decisions in the workplace.....which is....rather than directly confronting a problem, make a sweeping policy change that ends up punishing the good apples with the bad.  I understand the proclaimed reasoning behind this change, but this was absolutely the wrong way to address it, by pulling this fun and unique little part of our site that the good apples also enjoy.  Our list helped make PA a bit special and was a nice token for the reviewers.  I don't think I'm the only one who enjoyed seeing my fellow collabs milestones.  There are other more direct and appropriate ways to deal with lame reviews if that is what the problem is. 

I will stop regular reviewing as a simple form of protest again this decision, I've got a million other things needing my attention anyway.  I hope eventually the decision will be reversed.   


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 17:48

What I care about is the signals being sent out in an open to everyone forum  and the lack of any considerations, both intellectual and human considerations taken here. Attacking collabs and any other reviewers (including those who post reviews in good faith) without any good reasonings than "that is my/ours opinions = it is the objective truth" is demeaning ProgArchives into something much nastier than I signed up to when I joined here. It is certainly not making PA into a quality website.

Again: Think. 

I have said my piece (and edited it eight times). Goodnight and good mental health. 



Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 17:56
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Upon whom do we brandish our pitchforks?



You brandish your tuned pitchforks upon the music listed on this site by providing detailed and informative reviews with substance that will make PA the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource. Wink

Yes, it was deliberate as the Top 100 Reviewers list was felt to contribute towards the steady decline in the standard of reviews being submitted for some considerable time. After all, the wrong type of competitive spirit engenders short cuts being taken and given the choice between good and hard work, we will always opt for the former. Like I said earlier in this thread, the information some of you seek i.e. a league table, is available on the collaborators page. A slew of flimsy reviews that tell you next to nothing about the subject matter is no better than zero reviews and strips the site of it's hard won credibility. We have a lot of brilliant reviewers on PA (including yourself) who will continue to make this site the 'first choice stop' for any inquisitive visitor.


I don't understand the logic behind this.  The top 100 was collaborators only.  If a collaborator is submitting terrible or inappropriate reviews, that collaborator should be addressed.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 18:36
This is all missing the point just a little. It is not the Collabs and Prog Reviewers who we are concerned about as much as the non-collabs who are trying to emulate them. The "league table" presents a false picture of what being a collaborator is all about - it's not about producing 100s and 1000s of reviews, but of producing good quality reviews. All PRs were chosen because of the quality of what they wrote, not the quantity - which is why there are people out there who have written more than the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13080" rel="nofollow - recommended 30 reviews who were not promoted to PR status.
 
Newer members looking at the league table see a target to aim at (100s of reviews), not a goal to be achieved (accurate reviewing).
 
Anyone who has seen, or complained about, people flooding the front-page with multiple brief, poorly written reviews that rapidly push the longer, well considered and well written reviews off the page should see what we've done here as not quite the villainous "kick in the face" that some have mistaken it for. Stern Smile
 


-------------
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."


Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 18:43
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I've been thinking about this all day, and the more I do, the more it pisses me off. LOL

It's really unfortunate, but not unlike many management decisions in the workplace.....which is....rather than directly confronting a problem, make a sweeping policy change that ends up punishing the good apples with the bad.  I understand the proclaimed reasoning behind this change, but this was absolutely the wrong way to address it, by pulling this fun and unique little part of our site that the good apples also enjoy.  Our list helped make PA a bit special and was a nice token for the reviewers.  I don't think I'm the only one who enjoyed seeing my fellow collabs milestones.  There are other more direct and appropriate ways to deal with lame reviews if that is what the problem is. 

I will stop regular reviewing as a simple form of protest again this decision, I've got a million other things needing my attention anyway.  I hope eventually the decision will be reversed.   

Jim, I hope that you do stick around, as one who has enjoyed your reviews and who has bought several albums based on them...


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 18:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

This is all missing the point just a little. It is not the Collabs and Prog Reviewers who we are concerned about as much as the non-collabs who are trying to emulate them. The "league table" presents a false picture of what being a collaborator is all about - it's not about producing 100s and 1000s of reviews, but of producing good quality reviews. All PRs were chosen because of the quality of what they wrote, not the quantity - which is why there are people out there who have written more than the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13080" rel="nofollow - recommended 30 reviews who were not promoted to PR status.
 
Newer members looking at the league table see a target to aim at (100s of reviews), not a goal to be achieved (accurate reviewing).
 
Anyone who has seen, or complained about, people flooding the front-page with multiple brief, poorly written reviews that rapidly push the longer, well considered and well written reviews off the page should see what we've done here as not quite the villainous "kick in the face" that some have mistaken it for. Stern Smile
 


I don't see this as a villainous move at all, but can we be sure that these "review mavericks" just want their names on the chart (even if they can't get theirs on there without quality reviews per the review guidelines), or is their motive something else?  Perhaps they are legitimately opinionated but do a poor job expressing their views.

I, like Jim, did enjoy seeing others move along (and I just hit #39! LOL), and it was a handy way to go right to some of my favorite reviewers' pages to read what they've written.  Embarrassed


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 18:54
If you're concerned about "machine gunners" of poor reviews, a legit issue, why not deal with them...rather than doing something which will likely not have any positive affect on the problem?   Identify those reviewers who most abuse the standards you desire, warn them once or twice, then if they continue, delete the account. 

But beyond that......the main thing is that this "fix" isn't going to change those people.  Do you really think the non-collabs who post the throwaway reviews will stop because that section is gone?  I don't think so.  All this does is remove a nice feature from the site. 


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 19:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

This is all missing the point just a little. It is not the Collabs and Prog Reviewers who we are concerned about as much as the non-collabs who are trying to emulate them. The "league table" presents a false picture of what being a collaborator is all about - it's not about producing 100s and 1000s of reviews, but of producing good quality reviews. All PRs were chosen because of the quality of what they wrote, not the quantity - which is why there are people out there who have written more than the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13080" rel="nofollow - recommended 30 reviews who were not promoted to PR status.
 
Newer members looking at the league table see a target to aim at (100s of reviews), not a goal to be achieved (accurate reviewing).
 
Anyone who has seen, or complained about, people flooding the front-page with multiple brief, poorly written reviews that rapidly push the longer, well considered and well written reviews off the page should see what we've done here as not quite the villainous "kick in the face" that some have mistaken it for. Stern Smile
 

There is an easy fix to this.

Whatever your highly subjective views determine is good reviews is given the value 0 and is getting kept on the frontpage for 12, 24, 36, 72 hours or how long it takes.

 Whatever your highly subjective views determine is bad reviews is given the value 2 and falls of the frontpage after 15 minutes or shorter. 

Why has this not been done years ago if this was such a problem for PA ? 

Another thing: You believe those of who reviews does it for being high on the list. That is not  true. Some of us review for the fun of it or any other reasons. The list does not mean anything to me and surely; for a lot of others too. Don't assume anything and don't think you know the reasons why people are reviewing. 




Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 19:58
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


I don't see this as a villainous move at all, but can we be sure that these "review mavericks" just want their names on the chart (even if they can't get theirs on there without quality reviews per the review guidelines), or is their motive something else?  Perhaps they are legitimately opinionated but do a poor job expressing their views.
Having watched this process as an Admin for the past 4 years I'm pretty confident that it is contributary. People, especially newer members, do not read Guidelines and FAQs - they follow the examples on the front page. I think there is a difference between a poor review and a poorly expressed one.
 
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

If you're concerned about "machine gunners" of poor reviews, a legit issue, why not deal with them...rather than doing something which will likely not have any positive affect on the problem?   Identify those reviewers who most abuse the standards you desire, warn them once or twice, then if they continue, delete the account. 

But beyond that......the main thing is that this "fix" isn't going to change those people.  Do you really think the non-collabs who post the throwaway reviews will stop because that section is gone?  I don't think so.  All this does is remove a nice feature from the site. 
Dealing with flood-reviews, poor reviews and reviews that don't "talk in some detail about each album" on a one-to-one basis is reactive and time consuming and does not stop the problem. It is better to be proactive and not encourage them.
 
No one can guess or predict whether there is any likelihood that this will not have any positive affect on the problem. Maybe it won't, but we think it will and only time will tell for sure.
 
As has already been pointed out, this feature hasn't entirely dissapeared, though I admit that only PRs are sorted on review-count on the http://www.progarchives.com/all_collaborators.asp" rel="nofollow - Collaborator Page (...also note that 7 Admins and 5 ex-Admins appeared on the Top 100 list so it's not just the Collabs and SCs who have been affected). 
 
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

There is an easy fix to this.

Whatever your highly subjective views determine is good reviews is given the value 0 and is getting kept on the frontpage for 12, 24, 36, 72 hours or how long it takes.

 Whatever your highly subjective views determine is bad reviews is given the value 2 and falls of the frontpage after 15 minutes or shorter. 

Why kicking up a conflict when you could have done this ?

Another thing: You believe those of who reviews does it for being high on the list. That is not  true. Some of us review for the fun of it or any other reasons. The list does not mean anything to me and surely; for a lot of others too. Don't assume anything and don't think you know the reasons why people are reviewing.

Sorry Torodd, but that is not a solution and would create more problems than it hopes to fix. [okay, I got the sarcasm in the "highly subjective views" comment but], we're not being subjective or judgemental here, which is why no one has responded to your previous call-out. 
 
So, I say again: " It is not the Collabs and Prog Reviewers who we are concerned about as much as the non-collabs who are trying to emulate them" ... which is why I honestly do not believe that anyone here is writing reviews solely to climb up the league table, which is also why no Admin has actually said people are writing reviews to climb up the table in this thread, which is also why I don't understand how anyone would get quite so pissed off when it was removed from the Front Page (given that "The list does not mean anything to me").


-------------
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."



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