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Tool, Nine Inch Nails

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53003
Printed Date: October 20 2014 at 22:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Tool, Nine Inch Nails
Posted By: kelisianna
Subject: Tool, Nine Inch Nails
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:04

I never see Tool or Nine Inch Nails mentioned around here. I think their music would fall into a loose definition of Progressive Rock.

What do you'all think?



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Replies:
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:09
Geek


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:17
Err.... Tool is in the bands list.

NIN just isn't a prog band anyway.


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Posted By: Lionheart
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:25
I think most of the stuff NIN has produced, at it's "most proggy", would fall into "conceptual pop/rock with industrial tendencies". 

I can't comment on Tool. I don't have any of their records.


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:26
"conceptual pop/rock"

Sorry, but have you actually heard any NIN before?
A lot of their stuff is so far removed from pop it's not funny.


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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:29
Originally posted by kelisianna kelisianna wrote:

I never see Tool or Nine Inch Nails mentioned around here. I think their music would fall into a loose definition of Progressive Rock.

What do you'all think?


Tool is one of the artists listed here.  I'd put NIN in here, too, but I think they've been suggested before and rejected.


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Posted By: Lionheart
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:30
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

"conceptual pop/rock"

Sorry, but have you actually heard any NIN before?
A lot of their stuff is so far removed from pop it's not funny.


Yes, because I have all of their records. It's an observation on the structure of Trent Reznor's songwriting. Which, by the way, follows a standard pop/rock format, regardless of what the instrumentation or production would lead you to believe.


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:35
ALL their music follows a pop/rock format?Confused

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Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:38
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

"conceptual pop/rock"

Sorry, but have you actually heard any NIN before?
A lot of their stuff is so far removed from pop it's not funny.
Agreed, but I don't think NIN is prog. In fact, I think industrial bands like Consolidated, Skinny Puppy, Severed Heads, Front 242, and of course Ministry to name a few, are all a bit more experimental than NIN, but even they aren't quite prog either.


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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST



Posted By: Lionheart
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:45
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

ALL their music follows a pop/rock format?Confused


Pretty much:

Pretty Hate Machine - synth pop (with industrial tendencies)
Broken - Rock (with industrial tendencies)
Downward Spiral - Conceptual Rock (with the occasional odd time signature, industrial tendencies)
The Fragile - Conceptual Rock (with the occasional odd time signature, industrial tendencies)
With Teeth - Rock (with industrial tendencies)
Year Zero - Pop/Rock (with industrial tendencies)
Ghosts - *the one exception in the catalog* - Ambient Brian Eno knockoff
The Slip - Rock (with industrial tendencies)

Don't take this the wrong way - I do like NIN, or I wouldn't have these records. It just ain't prog, my friend!


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 12:42
I will say the same thing as the majority: NIN is NOT progressive, even when Reznor plays oddly with his synthesizers. I mean, even Goldie and his one-hour track (I just don't remember the name of this disc) or Orb and his 40-minutes mastodon are closer to the concept of "progressive rock" than Reznor (yet, he's able to produce good melodies and intelligent metal).


Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: February 10 2009 at 14:31
I'm just discovering them. I'm not sure if they fall on 'prog' (depends on how you define prog), but I feel it's silly to call it pop/rock. It's so far away from generic music, especially songs like "All The Love in The World", "Zero Sum" "Ripe", the "Ghost" album, and many songs in "Fragile".

Quite interesting music, 3 to 3.5 star material with my star rating preferences in progarchives.




Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 10 2009 at 15:29
Just be sure to use the right Tool when pounding in your Nine Inch Nails.

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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: February 11 2009 at 07:24
In favour of NIN: They sound a lot more off-whack than a lot of other artists here, and that should count for something, surely?
(Off-whack as a sub criterium for Prog)


Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 11 2009 at 08:47
OK so we've established that Tool are here. Just type their name in the search bar and you'll find numerous threads on them in the forum also (you're new here though so it's excusable).

As for NIN? No dude, I personally wouldn't like to call them prog and I don't think they themselves would like to be labelled by that either. Mellow industrial metal, lets just leave it at that.


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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 11 2009 at 16:08
Originally posted by kelisianna kelisianna wrote:

I never see Tool or Nine Inch Nails mentioned around here. I think their music would fall into a loose definition of Progressive Rock.

What do you'all think?


If you've not seen Tool mentioned around here, you've not been paying attention.


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http://www.last.fm/user/chopper777/?chartstyle=basicrt10" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 10:30
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Just be sure to use the right Tool when pounding in your Nine Inch Nails.


Mohaha.


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: March 31 2010 at 20:51
Nine Inch Nails have been added to Crossover.

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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 00:54
Clap

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM


Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 04:10
YES!!!!
 
Hug


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Love is the answer. Or enjoy very cold straight or with sugar.


Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 04:12
hahahahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hahahahahahahah
hahahah

Oh my, you are a funny one!


Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 12:06
I don't really have a problem with them being added, but I fail to see how NIN is in any way prog.  I also agree that its very pop format.  Just because it's heavy doesn't mean its not pop, the verse chorus format is pretty evident in almost all Trent's songs.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 12:23
Originally posted by himtroy himtroy wrote:

I don't really have a problem with them being added, but I fail to see how NIN is in any way prog.  I also agree that its very pop format.  Just because it's heavy doesn't mean its not pop, the verse chorus format is pretty evident in almost all Trent's songs.


And it's fortified with profanity. LOL


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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 12:28
Yeah exactly.  I mean no offense to any fans, I used to listen to The Fragile a lot and thought it was good, it just never occurred to me to call it prog.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 12:39
Originally posted by himtroy himtroy wrote:

Yeah exactly.  I mean no offense to any fans, I used to listen to The Fragile a lot and thought it was good, it just never occurred to me to call it prog.

I dunno, if I like it and it's in my collection, it has to be prog. Tongue

I kind of get the feeling this won't sit right with a lot of people.


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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 19:13
Quite a shock to see them added.  Right or wrong, the barriers to entry keep getting lower.  Of course if this is an April Fools joke, I would have hoped for better.Sleepy


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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 20:12
NIN are here to stay.......................move onSmile

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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 20:48
Personally, I think NIN would fit much better in the Prog Related category then in Crossover.  There may be progressive/experimental traits in their music, but I really wouldn't go so far as to include them in the progressive genre.  Not really a huge deal but I'm borderline OCD, so it kinda bugs me.LOL


Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: April 01 2010 at 21:18
Honestly, it seems the rules have overruled the rulemakers.

The criteria for Prog Related are now way too strict, channeling every and any band into Crossover Prog. I don't think that was the intention.

My advice: Change the odd critera for Prog Related. Keep Prog Related as an open category for bands and artists that should be included on a more or less emotional basis (generelly regarded), as seems to be the case with many suggestions. And channel the wildcards from Crossover to Related.


Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 02 2010 at 02:59
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Nine Inch Nails have been added to Crossover.
 
Did they change their musical orientation at some point ? I always heard about them as an industrial rock/metal band.
Who's next : oomph, rammstein, ministry ?


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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 02 2010 at 05:16
Personally I thought their later albums, which were used as arguments for their inclusion, presented the weakest arguments. The Fragile and The Downwards Spiral sold a rather skeptical me on this suggestion though.

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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 02 2010 at 11:30
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

 
I kind of get the feeling this won't sit right with a lot of people.

What else is new? LOL


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: April 03 2010 at 16:24
Although... why is say, Asia, or fricken Nightwish more prog than NIN? Because they are all "symphonic" sounding? At least NIN has progressive song structures occasionally. Although it is usually pop song structure (but again, so are Asia, Nightwish and many other bands on the site).

Anyway, I say, if we have a bunch of stupid Power Metal, why not NIN. The more the merrier! :P


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"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 03 2010 at 17:06
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:


Anyway, I say, if we have a bunch of  Power Metal, why not NIN. The more the merrier! :P


took the liberty of editting your quote... but agree 110% with the sentiment..


there is a LOT of stuff here I personally don't believe belong here...   lots that I believe that should be that has been rejected...


anyhow.. posted this in the collab zone ...   and dare anyone to find the fault in the logic... this site is a repository of all the differing views of prog.. and if one knows anything of prog.. you know there are as many of those as members we have here.



Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


it's like I said earlier....   why are people more upset at what is added...  rather than what isn't added.

if one doesn't agree.. or like the group...  so what.. who the hell are YOU.. really?   What about the people that DO think the group belongs... 


who is the site for....  them....the general membership and prog explorers..  or you(us)


Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: April 03 2010 at 22:09
I never thought I'd see them added, and I was unsure NIN is even a good addition. Nonetheless I am absolutely enthralled that they/he are here. The Downward Spiral and The Fragile are two albums I put on a pedestal and are two absolute favorites. I love pretty much anything else Trent makes, with The Slip probably being the only weak NIN album IMO.

I'll have to get in a review for The Downward Spiral soon. Perfection! Tongue


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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 03 2010 at 22:21
Thumbs Up
Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

I never thought I'd see them added, and I was unsure NIN is even a good addition. Nonetheless I am absolutely enthralled that they/he are here. The Downward Spiral and The Fragile are two albums I put on a pedestal and are two absolute favorites. I love pretty much anything else Trent makes, with The Slip probably being the only weak NIN album IMO.

I'll have to get in a review for The Downward Spiral soon. Perfection! Tongue
Thumbs UpThumbs Up Positivity is positvely Great!!!


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Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...


Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: April 03 2010 at 23:14


So basically... Billy Idol for prog archives!


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 04 2010 at 04:40
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:



So basically... Billy Idol for prog archives!

There goes the neighborhood?


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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 04 2010 at 07:19
It's been interesting to watch the site traffic as reported by Alexa after this addition though ;-)

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The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100


Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: April 04 2010 at 17:39
Originally posted by Desoc Desoc wrote:

Honestly, it seems the rules have overruled the rulemakers.

The criteria for Prog Related are now way too strict, channeling every and any band into Crossover Prog. I don't think that was the intention.

My advice: Change the odd critera for Prog Related. Keep Prog Related as an open category for bands and artists that should be included on a more or less emotional basis (generelly regarded), as seems to be the case with many suggestions. And channel the wildcards from Crossover to Related.

I agree; the requirements for Prog Related are silly - specifically "Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community". Most of the 100% prog bands here haven't influenced the development of progressive rock (but rather derived from it), so how can we expect the Prog related ones to? Confused


Posted By: Citizen Erased
Date Posted: April 06 2010 at 13:33
NIN are great but to put them in here suggests that anything avant-garde in its respective genre deserves a place here.

That essentially means every post-rock, contemporary classical and free jazz band as well.

I'm not 100% sure on how to define what goes here so fair enough.


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<a href="www.last.fm/user/jonzo67" targe


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 06 2010 at 13:38
It, generally-speaking, should be rock based music though, since this site focuses on progressive rock.  I certainly think that this site should be very experimental rock and avant-garde rock friendly.


Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: April 07 2010 at 10:38
I always thought this site's strength was cataloging unknown gems for people to discover. I think that should be the focus, rather than putting the microscope on every well known band, looking for progressive elements. That's all I have to say on it.

That and Primus really needs to be in the Eclectic category /hypocrisy

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 07 2010 at 12:51
Originally posted by Deathrabbit Deathrabbit wrote:

I always thought this site's strength was cataloging unknown gems for people to discover. I think that should be the focus, rather than putting the microscope on every well known band, looking for progressive elements. That's all I have to say on it.

That and Primus really needs to be in the Eclectic category /hypocrisy


That means you're arguing for either a purge of the well-knowns or pulling up the ladder on well-knowns that aren't here yet.  Just to let you know, I've been on the Crossover Team for a few months now and most of our additions aren't well known.  Some are very new to the scene. 

And always remember "as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld.

Also, here at Prog Archives we never ever ever move an artist from the category they are added to initially.  Nor do we ever ever ever spit an established category into other categories.  Tongue


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Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: April 07 2010 at 13:08
Originally posted by Deathrabbit Deathrabbit wrote:

I always thought this site's strength was cataloging unknown gems for people to discover. I think that should be the focus, rather than putting the microscope on every well known band, looking for progressive elements. That's all I have to say on it.

That and Primus really needs to be in the Eclectic category /hypocrisy


Well, your signature doesn't reveal wherefrom you hail, but as a general note people would benefit from considering that what is well known in their own backyard might not be well known with your neighbour. Particularly not if you're American, curiously enough. Examplewise I'm not familiar with Primus touring once in Europe, probably with good and economically justified cause. I've known Rush to have had one tour in the northern half of Europe the last 20 years or so, and Nine Inch Nails just don't sell as much here. I might be unprecise, but you get the general picture. I'm here to find out what's moving in the scene, regardless of whether a band grew up playing prog in a prog club for a prog audience, or whether commercial success in parts of the world might have disqualified certain bands in certain people's eyes.



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