Stratovarius
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53809
Printed Date: September 20 2024 at 18:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Stratovarius
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Subject: Stratovarius
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 04:27
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Hi, I've been off of the Site for a while mainly as a rebellious act due to the fact that entry of Stratovarius as a Prog related band has been refused numerous times. I know of a few people who refuse to access the Site any longer for the same reason. To my mind there is too much good here in order for that to keep me away but I still cannot understand the thinking applied to Stratovarius.
I love prog music and cannot handle mainstream popular music or mainstream metal. I own hundreds of albums and over the years I've owned thousands and have been a music lover for 40 years. My start into music was via my parents who loved the classics as in Liszt and the like.
How does a site like this put Metallica, The Who, The Rolling Stones, etc etc onto its portfolio but leave out Stratovarius - that almost sounds to me like a political and not a musical decision.
Has anyone here actually listened to their music?
To my mind the best prog band today are Dream Theater who are way beyond most of the other bands here in musical skills and in songwriting ability. I also enjoy early Genesis, early Yes, Jethro Tull, Pain of Salvation, Evergrey, Porcupine Tree, etc etc - just to let you know that I'm not a wannabe Proghead.
Aside from that I also enjoy Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young - who admittedly could and should never be here.
Can we do something about my concern here?
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Replies:
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 04:52
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Metallica has a lot of a prog traits and is a lot closer to a prog metal band than Stratovarious. Stratovarious is just pure power metal, that simple. ------------- 
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 05:37
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I do not agree with you and am entitled to disagree - Magnum are power metal. I can play each and every Metallica track note for note on a guitar and I'm not much of a guitarist. They are a pop metal band who have made 1 good pop metal album and a lot of junk as well. Their music is simplistic to the extreme.
Elements by Stratovarius eats Metallica for musicianship, songwriting, and anything else you care to mention and so does any other track that they've ever done.
Please just do me a favor and listen to a Stratovarius album outside of the first three. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 07:26
 given the choice between simplistic and arrogant, I'd always choose simplistic. But - if Metallica are simplistic, then what about Manowar?
Songwriting? Sorry, but I think that that's one of the most important elements of music - and Stratovarius aren't exactly good at it. Sure, it's just my opinion, but I think that Metallica run circles around Stratovarious in many ways, including songwriting. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
slaver wrote:Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 07:36
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Absolutely not an authority on the band in question, but I used to listen to a lot of power metal and prog metal a couple of years ago. Stratovarius was one of those bands, and even though they have a lot of delicacies enriching their sound and floating on top I seem to remember the underlying STRUCTURE the songs were built on and from remained quite simple and straight-forward, much in the vein of most other power metal bands. That's probably the best reason to why they aren't here, as the site focuses a lot on those qualities. Now, it's been a while since I heard them and I don't know all their releases, so this is more for the sake of discussion  |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 08:32
| I just wonder why people have to resort to threats or slurs in order to get what they want. OK, I can understand being disappointed because a favourite band of yours is not in the DB (which doesn't really affect their musical quality or your enjoyment), but I have some trouble in coming to terms with a 'rebellious act'. In my view, if one isn't satisfied with something, they should just let it be, and find something more satisfactory - instead of trying to force their views on others, or implying all sorts of negative things. If people don't want to access PA because Stratovarius are not here, so be it - thank heavens this is still a free world, and the Internet is full of sites that may appeal more to them. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 03 2008 at 08:51
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I still don't really understand the ins and outs of why certain bands are included and certain bands are not. It is my understanding that bands like Rhapsody and Nightwish were included before the current genre team structure was in place, and once album reviews were done, the site policy is to not remove the bands. Metallica are included in prog related because a 45 page discussion took place regarding there relation to prog and their influence on the entirety of prog metal. There are probably 10,000 artists that could be added to prog related, but to-date the inclusions have been kept limited not enough for some people's standards but too much for other people's standards. In regards to Stratovarius, I don't really understand why they aren't included either. I have seen them labelled as progressive metal in other sites, articles, etc... I think of them as a symphonic metal band and I think of progressive rock quite simplisticly as the merging of symphony with rock or jazz with rock. By this site's standards my definition is too inclusive.  And whether or not you agree or disagree with a certain band's inclusion or not, it is important that you realize that these decisions are not made willy nilly. The people who make these decisions are volunteers who volunteer a lot of time to this site to evaluate whether bands are progressive or not. They are not perfect but they really do a spectacular job. For the time being, I would suggest that you start a Stratovarius appreciation thread in the general music discussions thread and there you can talk all that you want about Stratovarius until your heart's content. I have done similar threads for bands like Van Halen, Judas Priest and The Police. Not that I think Van Halen is prog, but I just wanted to discuss them with fellow music junkies. In my mind, I have no doubt that Judas Priest belongs here, but that is an uphill battle that I'll probably never win, and I think that at the least The Police could qualify for prog-related, but they are in line with the other 10,000 bands that may or may not make the archives after all of the full-on prog bands have been added, or at least until a Special Collab or an Admin takes up their cause.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 01:52
Okay, so I've heard a lot of Stratovarius, including "outside of the first 3". Sounds like a power metal band through and through. They were rejected by 3 members of the prog metal team (including myself) and I imagine if the other 2 members of the team vote, they will reject it too. They were also further rejected by another 6 collabs. By the time a band has been rejected by 9 collabs (6 of which aren't even on the Prog Metal Team, of which I know at least 4 of them were former PMT members and thus, are not even obligated to vote), I think a band's prog credentials are highly questionable. The band has no chance of making it into a prog genre. As for prog related, you could try, but don't get your hopes up  By the time someone calls Metallica a "pop metal band" and says they can play all their songs note for note despite not being "much of a guitarist", it's honestly hard to take an opinion like that seriously at all. It may not be technical by the standards of today's Technical Death Metal (for example), but it still requires some amount of musicianship to play. You can hear only their influence all over Images and Words, but in fact, actual elements of prog metal that Metallica helped to create. As for "rebellion by not showing up to PA", well it's hardly rebellion, since well, we didn't even know you were rebelling in the first place. Where as someone here that actually makes their voice heard is actually able to rebel. I liken it to someone who constantly complains about things they don't like about their government, policies/laws etc, but just sits at home apathetically and does nothing about it. On the other hand, we have Nelson Mandela (to use an example you will be familiar with) who put his voice out, got people's attention and wide spread support and was ACTIVELY involved in his cause. He ended up President of the RSA for his efforts. That's certainly a lot more than you can say about someone that never bothered to show up, never bothered to actually voice their opinion and just shied away from actually doing anything. Well, you made the first step at least I guess of making yourself heard. And just for a bit of trivia, my ex-girlfriend was originally from Johannesburg, hehe. -------------
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 01:59
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It's just a troll anyway. Any real guitarist would not say something like "I can play each and every Metallica track note for note on a guitar and I'm not much of a guitarist" ... a ridiculous statement. And as far as his musical expertise is concerned: "Magnum are power metal" ... yeah right.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:02
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Rushfan 4 - Thank you. Hi Mr Progfreak - isn't the very basis of prog music the fact that it is more complex than mainstream pop music. Aren't we proud of the fact that a man like John Petrucci can play his instrument in a way that no pop musician can. Why do we call it instrument w**king when a musician proves what he is capable of? Isn't that what makes us different from the "pop" crowd. I say again, I can play each and every Metallica track on my guitar note for note. I cannot play a lot of Stratovarius's music because I'm not good enough. They have differing beat structures throughout their tracks, they use a lot of Symphonic instrumentation. The keyboard and guitar work within Stratovarius at times borders on stunning. A number of their tracks are long and multi - layered. Again please do me a favor and listen to them. Rushfan 4 - with the release of Judas Priests latest album I agree with you that they should also be here.
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:18
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^ I don't even doubt that you're a good guitar player. But if you are, you should acknowledge the fact that Metallica is much more difficult to play than AC/DC, Motörhead or Manowar. Sure, Some Stratovarius songs may be even more difficult than Metallica ... but that doesn't mean they're prog. If Stratovarius are prog in your opinion, then I have no problem with that ... you seem to appreciate technical playing more than others. Long tracks ... well, they aren't automatically prog either. It depends on a number of factors, at least for me. Especially in Power Metal it's difficult to make a division between prog and non-prog ... I think you'll agree that not all Power Metal is prog, even if most of the bands feature technical playing, long tracks and symphonic instrumentation. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:21
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Hi Mr Progfreak - I love Magnum's music and I have every one of their albums - they aren't even Power Metal - they border on Power Pop. They made one prog album and that was purely because of the track "Don't wake the lion". Can you play the guitar - if you can then try to emulate Metallica - it is suprisingly easy. Try to emulate Stratovarius's track called Stratovarius. HughesJB4 - I accept your argument although why were so few given the ability to vote for so many? I remember a past Stratovarius argument that got very heated on this site. Oh yes - I fully support the fact that Nightwish is on the Site unlike many as their music is definately not pop and neither is it pure metal. I don't know whether Within Temptation is here but if they aren't they should be. I cannot understand why the Beatles are here and I seem to recall seeing the Rolling Stones as well - huh?
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:23
Okay, I agree that Timo Tolkki (although according to wikipedia, he has left the band) is a vastly superior lead guitarist to Kirk Hammett.......but to be honest, that's not particularly hard either (given how sloppy Kirk Hammett is now). I would dare say my own lead guitar skills are superior to his, although I wouldn't exactly compare with Tolkki. Yes, Symphonic instrumentation. Like a gazillion other power metal and neo-classical metal bands. Hell, it seems Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force was doing that before Stratovarius in the metal scene, so not exactly a pioneering move on Stratovarius' part either. And as always, virtuosic does not necessarily=prog -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:29
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Hi Mr Progfreak - I agree with you regarding Manowar - Metallica's music is however not more difficult to play than AC/DC or Motorhead - the opposite is true. I have one AC/DC album and none of the other two's in my collection although over time I have owned and gotten rid of a few. Just don't like them much.
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:32
Okay, but I wouldn't bother playing Stratovarius anyway since I'm really a big fan of the band. If I want to play something more challenging than Metallica, I would probably learn some Dream Theater songs instead. And again, I accept Timo Tolkki is a very technically proficient guitarist, much more than I am. And why are there so few given the ability to vote? Because collaborators are in the minority on Progarchives. I didn't get promoted to my position on the Progressive Metal Team for nothing. Honestly, I don't know a great deal about power metal, but I know enough to know what is power metal and what is prog metal. If you want to talk more about classic prog metal, The T and Sleeper know their stuff. I was promoted partly on the basis that I had a very good understanding of the nuances and style of extreme metal styles, to fill the gap of knowledge The T and Sleeper don't have in the Tech/Extreme area. -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:35
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Hi HughesJB4, please just go and listen to Stratovarius again - it's not simply the guitar work - it's the rest of the instrumentation as well, it's the changing and complex rythm structures within the tracks, it's the Keyboard work which is undeniably brilliant. I enjoy Kamelot's music but why are they here when Stratovarius isn't?
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:47
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Look, I understand you really want to see Stratovarius here, but they have been rejected for inclusion, and I will not be changing my vote, nor will anyone else I suspect. As I said, try for prog related, but good luck to that. And if you want know why Kamelot is here, ask other members/past members of the Prog Metal Team that were part of the team before me (since I was only promoted 3 and a half weeks ago) why they thought it was prog enough to justify inclusion. I have heard one Kamelot album ever, and that was once all the way through, and this was months and months ago, so I'm not familar with the band's work. As I said before, my area of 'expertise' (to use the term lightly) lies in extreme metal. I don't really listen to power metal much anymore, because I just don't really like the sub genre much any more. Mr ProgFreak himself is more knowledgeable on power metal than I am, and actually realy listens to it, so I hold his opinion on this matter in high regard. And yes, he was one the people that voted no on Stratovarius while he was a member of the Prog Metal Team
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 02:55
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By the way I think that Dream Theater is the essence of Prog Metal today and I love each and every one of their albums other than the "Made in Japan" copy which was abyssimal. The original by Deep Purple remains a rock classic.
Pain of Salvation is close and so are Symphony X but they don't quite have the same style in their performances and albums.
I agree that a Site like this one cannot become a free for all where everything and anything is included because that detracts from who we are and what we enjoy.
To my mind what we enjoy comes from the true masters - the Liszts, Beethovens, Mozarts - originally and we call it music today although it has been enhanced by technology and by knowlege of different techniques, cultures and nuances. I don't particularly enjoy the classics but there's no denying that that was the primary influence of what we as proggers enjoy.
I'm sorry but I will never see Metallica as being an influence on anything. If anything Dream Theater used a bit of the Metallica style but then they have used a bit of everyone's style at one point or another.
Pantera did the Metallica style far better than Metallica ever could and so did Anthrax.
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 03:06
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"Pantera did the Metallica style far better than Metallica ever could and so did Anthrax" At absolute best, that is laughable. Pantera played groove metal, a sub genre derived from thrash metal. They didn't even play thrash metal......so how could they have "dont the Metallica style better than Metallica"? Anthrax was an East Coast thrash band more focused on melody and less complex structures than Metallica. Anthrax did Anthrax. They didn't do Metallica. I have to say it, you're digging yourself into a hole here. Each new post you make in this thread makes it harder for me to believe you know your stuff (no offense intended). A lot of what you're said isn't really substantiated at all. -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 03:58
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Should have said the Thrash metal style far better than Metallica ever could - sorry.
I remember when Metallica's first album was reviewed by NME (who I had a lot of respect for) they basically stated that Metallica were a bunch of nobodies who looked evil who played a slow form of thrash / garage metal. Other than for the track "Nothing else matters" and much of the Black album I have never heard them surpass that analogy.
Another thing that got to me about Metallica was the veiled Satanic references in their lyrics which were a bit too overt for me. Not as overt as Manowar but overt enough. Now I am and always have been a Black Sabbath fan but their references were more fantasy than anything else whereas Metallica's lyrics didn't strike me as fantasy at all. I'm not a Bible basher at all but some things I just don't like.
I enjoyed Anthrax and Pantera for their music and for their style - Anthrax put a lot of humor into their music.
With the release of the Nothing else matters track I though that we could see a turning point in Metallica's music but each release after that proved that they were not up to it.
Needless to say I do not enjoy Slayer or Sepultra or the like.
I have dabbled with Korn and would be suprised if their album "Issues" weren't considered prog. Mostly though they just go on their merry monotonous way. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 04:19
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 04:20
Now I'm finding it almost impossible to take you seriously on the matter. -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 04:54
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I think that we have some very different views on music - but that's what makes life interesting. To my mind Tool have a lot to thank Korn for. For the record - I cannot stand Tool.
If you haven't listened to Issues then you'll find some very interesting music and some very interesting subject matter there. Way way better than anything else Korn have released. I don't believe that they should be here but if that was a stand alone release of theirs then I would say that they should most definately be.
Another eyebrow raiser, for me, is the inclusion of the Who on Progarchives. Sure they did Tommy and Quadrophena but the BG's did a lot on Saturday Night Fever and its follow up. Neither band is progressive
in any form.
We have The Stones, The Beatles, The Who, Black Sabbath (who only did one proggish album, Uriah Heep who did one or two proggish tracks etc etc on Progarchives) - still no Stratovarius.
David Bowie did more to contibute to Prog than most and he aint here?
All of you guys have an excellent site and you do excellent work and I understand that you can't please everyone. As well I understand that everyone has different ideas and preferences.
Just fair warning - I'm going to harp on the Stratovarius issue every now and then.
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 05:33
The Who are here in Proto-Prog, they're NOT PROG! Neither The Beatles or Sabbath nor Bowie. The Who being on Proto-Prog pretty much says it all, PROTO being before Prog existed, they influenced future Prog bands as well as The Beatles, The Doors, Floyd's Piper's, many many others.. Their Rock Opera/Concept was very innovating for the time, as well as the 10 minute epic A Quick One. Sabbath, has influenced so many hard rock/metal bands that you can't imagine. Their first 2 albums were highly innovating and then realesed 2 very Proggy albums Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage, which I consider them Heavy Prog, and some people would add Never Say Die or even Heaven and Hell. But I'm getting out of the subject.... Just my 2 cents  |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 09:45
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Did someone just call Metallica´s lyrics satanic ?
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:20
Mike, Harry.... Are you SERIOUSLY discussing with someone who thinks music is prog when he cannot play it because it's difficult?  Damn.... Do you realize that most Genesis music is therefore NOT prog?
Korn PROG????
Metallica's lyrics SATANIC??? (people haven't really heard Dark Funeral it seems)....
This is insane.
Prog (and prog metal, in this case this applies to both) it's not about how impossible it is to play it. Dragonforce would be prog metal; in that case, but Opeth wouldn't be. Please.. read a little bit... Don't focus only n your ideas... it's bad for you, because you don't let true knowledge grow in your mind with the input of other's people's ideas... Read the thread about Metallica and the bio... Read prg-metal's definition... read the thread about prog metal and prog.. read other websites.. read the yellow pages at least but please, bring something more to the table than Startovarius is prog because I can't play it. Stratovarius may be fast and technical but you have verse-chorus-verse all the time plus no additional elements like odd time signatures or the use of boldier, more experimental structures and forms... Stratovarius is plain METAL.
By the way go and listen to Spiral Architect, Now THAT'S prog-metal that's impossible to play and also PROG. ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:31
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Hmmm. Methinks that The T is not mellowing with old age. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:35
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 (you just made me realize I'm old and tired....) Ok fine iN god spirit, let's add Korn to the Archives!  (and may somebody tell our major thread mover that the Rolling Stones are NOT in the Archives??)-------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:42
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Sadly if Issues qualifies as a prog album, then based on my understanding of mailto:M@xs - M mailto:M@x - @x 's directive of any band that has released a full prog album then Korn should be in the Archives. I have no opinion there on whether or not it is progressive or not. I'd be surprised based on my small knowledge of Korn's music, but it could certainly be the case.
I already gave my two cents on Stratovarius and I have nothing different to say to that extent. No reason to let it stress you though Teo. All is good either way. -------------
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:44
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This is one of the best threads I´ve seen in a while. Really enjoyable . If anyone wants a couple of recommendations to satanic metal please give me a call.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:46
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The Thing That Should Not Be has some sort of satanic message to it, wouldn't you think. -------------
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 14:48
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 16:16
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Well, this certainly beats TV. As micky would say: "Munch, munch". ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 04 2008 at 18:06
| Stratovarius may not be prog , but it made me appreciate lots of prog bands after. Like ELP |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 05 2008 at 12:30
I'm so drowned in black metal lately that I may actually ask for some christian metal one of these days just in hopes that I can save 10% of my lost soul! -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 05 2008 at 12:32
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Whoever is the first to suggest Korn for addition loses 10 points in credibility but gains 48937493847 points for being so BRAVE! -------------
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 05 2008 at 17:02
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Not brave enough I´m sad to say. |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 05:07
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I've just listened again to Korn and yes I'm brave enough to suggest that their music is prog. Anyone prepared to call them run of the mill? That would be braver!! Anyone happy to suggest that they are mainstream boogie or whatever metal? ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 05:28
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^ if anything is prog, what's the point of having the label?
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 07:05
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Oh, My God... Now, Korn. Well, I just can watch the thread go on and make the bodycount. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 07:44
I can´t wait to see you (Slaver) suggest Korn in the suggest bands forum. Entertainment like that normally doesn´t come for free . And yes CPicard bodies will lie in the streets.
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 10:47
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Hi UMUR - gonna go for it - watch the bodies role. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 11:16
| FREE ENTERTAINMENT IS THE BEST! |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:09
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Man , I also like Stratovarius and I agree that listeing to the them may clear your path to classic bands like Yes for instance. However , I think the site has to restrain additions a bit for example no matter how much I like Miles Davis his inclusion on the site was very controversial and left the door open to a lot of jazz mucisians to get here
Probably we'll see Stan Getz and Bill Evans here soon!!
What's the big deal in not having one of your fav bands listed here? You still can discuss about them in the General Music disscusions thread. I could go and open a Shakira appreciation thread right now.
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:31
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Hi Crimson87 - my deal here is that there are a lot of inclusions on Progarchives that shouldn't be here. To my mind Stratovarius should be because they are Prog. They have done a lot of non prog tracks but they've done some brilliant prog tracks as well. "Destiny" anyone?? Korn - should be here as well - if only for their "Issues" album. Oh yeah -Miles Davis deserves his spot. As for Shakira - pretty - but pure pop.
------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 12:45
Listening to Destiny now ... this is reminding of Europe a lot (think Final Countdown). Very, very basic harmonic structure. Sonata Arctica are another association ... neither of those are prog. Ok, the track is more than 10 minutes long ... big deal. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 13:04
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Hey Mr Progfreak - their are universes between Europe and Stratovarius. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 13:55
| Really? They're both Swedish, aren't they? So, I would say there must be barely some kilometers or miles between them. |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:05
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We're talking musically here!!!! They both come from Sweden and that means what???? Blondie and Pink Floyd vector from the same landmass - so do Black Sabbath!! Listen to Strat ... then comment. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:12
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^ I was listening to the track "Destiny" and it reminded me of Europe ... mostly because of the chord progressions and vocal lines.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:14
Irony, humor, jokes... By the way, Blondie is a band from New York, not York. They're hardly from the same landmass than Pink and Black. Plus, I just remembered Stratovarius was finnish. My bad. |
Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 14:20
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You right babout Blondie but I could mention so many others of the same ilk!!! ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 16:58
Not necessarily accurate Slaver, I'm sure you heard Meatloaf, Jim Steinman's music for Meat is far more complex than many Prog bands and he's a Pop/Metalish/ Balladesque/ Rock artist, Yngwee Malmsteed music and solos are far more elaborate that many prog Metal bands, but complexitry alone means nothing
I try to avoid any DT thread, but if I have to be honest, John Petrucci's abbility to play faster than many, means absolutely nothing to me, I stay 1,000 times with Steve Hackett and Steve Howe rather than Petrucci's style, which I find extremely complex but empty for me.
Again, complexity means nothing, sometimes making it simpler is what a song needs to be a masterpiece, I'd stay with Firth of Fifth guitar section rather than with everything Petrucci did.during all his career.
The fact that you can play the music of one artist and not the music of another, only means you're incapable of playing the music of the second artist, nothing more.
I'm sure that you can't play Malmsteen's music as him, but still he is not a prog artist, your playing abbilities, great or small, are not a valid argument of Progressivenes..
At last a valid argument, structure is a key point, not that i'm saying Stratiovarius should be here, because I'm unfamiliar with their music, but the argument seems coherent.
Iván
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 17:50
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Ok.... Let's just say that Korn will go to exp/metal, Limp Biskit to extreme/tech and Stratovarius to prog-metal, ok? That way we please are members... and we finally can start welcoming artists like Rolling Stones, Shakira (both mentioned here), plus others like Kylie Minogue (my favorite female artist, not for her music so much), Mayhem, (I like them, that's enough), Meat Loaf (Ivan and others like him, that's enough), The Presidents of the United States of America (they have an important name, that's enough), Hombres G (believe me, that's enough), El General (his lyrics are enough) and many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many more....... -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 07 2008 at 18:25
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On top of that Teo, we add Stravinsky, cos he was prog and all that. And 50 Cent. He's down with the prog yo. -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 01:43
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Guys - Malmsteens next on my list of Championing good Prog music.
I would be happy to see Strat under Prog Related here. Tell me do they have more in common with Mozart or with The Rolling Stones? ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 03:55
This isn't the Good Music Archives - Malmsteen does not play Progressive Rock. Feel free to discuss him and talk about the blinding speed of his sweep-picking and his technical prowess to your hearts content in one of the already open threads about him:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43632 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43632
- but please do not annoy people further by suggesting him for inclusion in the Archives. That subject has been done to death...
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=287 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=287
Okay - here's the deal...
Only Admins can approve bands for Prog Related and only Special Collaborator's can propose bands to the Admins for Prog Related.
So, your task is not to convince the general population with wild and unsubstantiated claims but to find an Special Collaborator willing to support your case using valid musical reasons.
Only then can Stratovarius be considered for Prog Related.
If you are dead-set on adding bands to the archive we are always open to suggestions, but new or unknown bands please - mainstream or already popular artists will have either been suggested dozens of times and rejected already or are simply not relevant.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 03:56
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Listened to them a few times, but found their output pretty bland and formulaic (no idea what that means, sounds great though). Seriously, reminded me of hair metal, undestinguishable from a lot other bands. The drumming is attrociously lame, and that from the brilliant drummer who used to be in Mekong Delta.
Anyway, my application for Tori Amos also went unheeded, so I'm going to go off in a huff now for at least 30 sophomores.
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 05:53
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It seems I aint gonna win this one. Hey npjnpj - of course Tori Amos should be here but of course her music is too main stream and really uncomplicated. LOL
Dean - when someone tells me that Mozart aint prog then I just know that I have no chance of winning.
Of course Mozart cannot be included here because then this would become a classical music appreciation site, but NOT PROG????? If it weren't for him and his ilk we wouldn't be listening to very much Prog today - would we now? Possibly we would be listening to Metallica because that has nothing really in common with the "Greats". ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 06:03
In my opinion you're trapped in the misconception that any music which is technically advanced and visionary/innovative automatically qualifies as "Prog". But the label is a bit more complex - and most importantly, it also denotes a certain *style*. As broad and generic it may be - even considering the range of artists from the 70s alone - there can be rules (which of course depend on opinions, not facts) which determine that one virtuosic/innovative artist is prog, and the other one isn't. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 06:26
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^yes, he seems very confused on the definition of Prog, even if it isn't 100% perfect, it's what the site requests. I can barely think of Classical music as Prog, they influenced Prog bands a lot, but INFLUENCE A PROG BAND DOESN'T MEAN PROG, like I said on the other thread which again you seemed confused, Deep Purple are in PROTO-Prog which is that influenced Prog bands on their Prog albums/concepts/etc.. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 09:45
Mozart is not Prog!
Neither Bach,, Beethoven or even Stravinsky, mainly because Prog means Proressive ROCK, and as I guess you know....There's no Rock in Classical music..
Iván -------------
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Posted By: DavetheSlave
Date Posted: December 08 2008 at 09:48
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Classical music didn't influence prog bands. It is the reason that this site and just about everything music wise that we love exists. I fully agree that Deep Purple are proto Prog. My argument is not that Stratovarius are one form of prog or another. My argument is that I cannot find Strat anywhere at all on the Site which I feel is absolutely not right.
Anyone want to try to tell me that Stravinsky or Mazorski are not prog even by todays standard then go ahead. Again - I don't want to see classical music on the Site at all but what I would like to see is an understanding of music. This is not Liverpool vs Arsenal - it's music - probably the deepest art form available to humankind.
I've heard it said that a musician who cannot appreciate the classics is not a musician and I agree with that whole heartedly. You will never catch me listening to much classical music because it bores me because we've advanced technologically and we have a deeper understanding of music.
I've given up the fight for Stratovarius here and maybe now and then I will enter the fray again but not now. It is obvious that I can't win. ------------- I'm a normal psychopath |
Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: December 09 2008 at 00:55
And finally I would see Alice In Chains in there oh god this is amazing!!! Maybe the site can be renamed to "My Prog Archives" what do you think??Oh and please don't forget Carlitos La Mona Jimenez, one of my fav latin artists (right after Los Jaivas of course). Everything seems OK, but... Los Hombres G??? Oh come on!!! They don't play so technically to be prog!!! ------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 13:15
this thread need this:
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 18:45
holy sh*t can people please stop posting facepalm pictures already
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 18:54
Maybe you might consider stop getting mad at everything.  |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 19:04
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 19:44
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Sigh. Will you please stop using f*****g profanities! |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 05 2010 at 19:46
A thread dormant for over a year resurrected just to post a facepalm. Brilliant. 
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