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Steven Wilson vs. Thom Yorke

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Printed Date: April 24 2024 at 18:30
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Topic: Steven Wilson vs. Thom Yorke
Posted By: Anderson III
Subject: Steven Wilson vs. Thom Yorke
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:16
A fair comparison, I think. Both are singers, writers of melancholic music, experimenters, guitarists, electronic musicians, scruffy-looking, and the masterminds of their respective groups... But which do YOU like more and why?

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"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo



Replies:
Posted By: TalmLikeABalm
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:20
Steven Wilson=amazing and Thom Yorke=very good


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:22
Steven Wilson- I've never been disappointed by anything he has done.




Oh wait...





Ermm

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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: Evolutionary Sleeper
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:29
Same here Epignosis. Solid album, but I was disappointed by it. I still pick Wilson by a mile though.

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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:37
I'm choosing Thom Yorke for his part in the South Park episode "Scott Tenorman Must Die".

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: dave-the-rave
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:37
I vote Wilson.

I lost interest in Radiohead after they went bleepy/bloopy. Imagine all the great rock albums we'll never get from the guys who did OK Computer and The Bends.


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:41
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Steven Wilson- I've never been disappointed by anything he has done.




Oh wait...





Ermm



LOLLOLLOL

Vote for Wilson, as he is noodling into krautrock and electronic dark music beyond amateurish levels.

While Yorke remains Yorke throughout most of his entire existence.


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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:45
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I'm choosing Thom Yorke for his part in the South Park episode "Scott Tenorman Must Die".


He and Radiohead could have actually stayed out of that monumental chili incident. I always thought Cartman's prank with Radiohead was just material for dramatic failing, anyway. Tongue


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Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:45
Originally posted by dave-the-rave dave-the-rave wrote:

I vote Wilson.

I lost interest in Radiohead after they went bleepy/bloopy. Imagine all the great rock albums we'll never get from the guys who did OK Computer and The Bends.


That's interesting. I'm far more into bleepy/bloopy Radiohead than rock Radiohead. But then again I'm a big fan of bleepy/bloopy music.

But this poll is too tough. I don't think I'll vote.


Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:47
Originally posted by dave-the-rave dave-the-rave wrote:

I vote Wilson.

I lost interest in Radiohead after they went bleepy/bloopy. Imagine all the great rock albums we'll never get from the guys who did OK Computer and The Bends.


After In Rainbows I think there's still a chance for a new OK Computer. In Rainbows wasn't it, but there's a chance... Smile


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"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:53
I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer.


Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 13:57
Dude.
 
Even though Wilson is a fan of Radiohead, Thom Yorke isn't even fit to kiss the ground Wilson walks on.


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Bigger on the inside.


Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 14:01
I personally have to give it to Yorke. I think he's easily the better singer of the two (and I bet a bunch of people despise his singing), and I love his melodies. Though I think Wilson is a true professional and great at what he does, nothing I've heard from him can even touch OK Computer's beauty.

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"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 14:06
Thom Yorke. Because with Kid A and Amnesiac Radiohead made two of the most unique, daring and important albums (if not the two) in popular music of the last 20 years or so.

Porcupine Tree is ok, but they're still just another band that sound like a mix of other bands (early Radiohead, Tool, Pink Floyd...).

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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 14:23
Steven Wilson for me is the choice. He's a well respected and sought after producer as well as a great song writer and singer.And i completely disagree with those who slam "Insurgentes" which is dark, heavy and psychedelic just the way i like it,but then it's all about taste i suppose. if i was asked who was more talented i'd say Steven.Who's made better music? Steven. Who's music  has been more influential? Yorke.

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 14:54
I vote for Steven Wilson because I like the strong melodies and the psych influences in his compositions. He is IMHO one of the best composers of the late 90's and the 00's. Nothing against Thom Yorke, I still have to hear more of him, but I don't think he is a match for Steven Wilson.


Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 14:55
Thom Yorke, no doubt. Every Radiohead album since The Bends has been flat-out amazing. Porcupine Tree is inconsistent, and they rarely, if not never, reach the heights of Radiohead. I do love both, though.

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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph


Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 15:10
In terms of composers, it's tough, but I'd say Yorke edges out Wilson. From a musical standpoint though, it's the other way around.

I'll give it to Yorke this time.


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Posted By: Doomcifer
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 15:46
This isn't even close imho.  Yorke by a landslide.

First, I enjoy his music more. 

Second, Yorke has more creativity in his pinkie than Wilson will ever have.

I agree with Rocktopus' comment above about PT being good, but just another band who sounds like others.


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Greater is the man who conquers himself, than he who conquers a hundred times a hundred on the battlefield.


Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 16:09
A collaboration between these two would be the greatest thing ever produced.

Anyway, I've never been known to vote against The Radioheads so Mr. Yorke it is.Basically #1 and #2 band right there.


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<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]



Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 16:44
Thom Yorke for me, Steven Wilson's voice is good but it just dose not catch my attention like Thoms vocals.
And i have seen PT live and Radiohead Live also.


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 17:21
Originally posted by Swan Song Swan Song wrote:

I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer.
Really?

Anyway, Wilson is a million times more musical than Yorke could ever be... and those saying PT is just a mix of other bands sounds... so is Radiohead, mostly... neither is completely unique but whenever I hear one of each bands songs I immediately know it's them, they both have their own unique sounds. But as far as musicality Wilson is far superior and he keeps getting better... Yorke and Co. just keep spiraling off into nothingness making slight variations on the same record over and over again.


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 17:27
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

Originally posted by Swan Song Swan Song wrote:

I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer.
Really?



Yes it is, to me. As I said.


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 17:32
^^ Well it just seemed weird that you would personally like a singer better for being "the voice of our era" rather than choosing the one you deem to be the "excellent musician and producer"... I would think that would have more effect on which you like better but okay.


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 17:36
Well, imo the greatest bands are not always the ones with the best musicians and the best music. There are also other things that count, sometimes massively. 


Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 18:15
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

Originally posted by Swan Song Swan Song wrote:

I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer.
Really?

Anyway, Wilson is a million times more musical than Yorke could ever be... and those saying PT is just a mix of other bands sounds... so is Radiohead, mostly... neither is completely unique but whenever I hear one of each bands songs I immediately know it's them, they both have their own unique sounds. But as far as musicality Wilson is far superior and he keeps getting better... Yorke and Co. just keep spiraling off into nothingness making slight variations on the same record over and over again.
 
Really?


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www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph


Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 18:17
Yorke ...he's simply inimitable


Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 19:57
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Thom Yorke. Because with Kid A and Amnesiac Radiohead made two of the most unique, daring and important albums (if not the two) in popular music of the last 20 years or so.

Porcupine Tree is ok, but they're still just another band that sound like a mix of other bands (early Radiohead, Tool, Pink Floyd...).


This.

Also, Yorke is a much, much better singer IMO. Wilson might have more compositional skill (key word, *might*), but I think Yorke is a much better songwriter and is also more innovative.


Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 20:50
Robert Fripp Big smile


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 21:21
If Johnny Greenwood wasn't so integral to Radiohead, I might be able to consider this poll seriously instead of laughing to tears at how easy it is to vote for Steve Wilson.

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 21:52
Thom Yorke.

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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: April 01 2009 at 21:54
Originally posted by Sckxyss Sckxyss wrote:

Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Thom Yorke. Because with Kid A and Amnesiac Radiohead made two of the most unique, daring and important albums (if not the two) in popular music of the last 20 years or so.

Porcupine Tree is ok, but they're still just another band that sound like a mix of other bands (early Radiohead, Tool, Pink Floyd...).


This.

Also, Yorke is a much, much better singer IMO. Wilson might have more compositional skill (key word, *might*), but I think Yorke is a much better songwriter and is also more innovative.


Yes, all that.

Thom Yorke is of rock's great lyricists when wants to. While I think Steven Wilson's lyrics are average at best, and sometimes truly embarrassing. Writing stuff like this is fine if you are in a emo-teen band:

Don't hate me
I'm not special like you
I'm tired and I'm so alone
Don't fight me
I know you'll never care


but I expect something a little more sophisticated from someone in his 30's:

To balance all this negativety a little: I do think Porcupine Tree are far better than most modern rock.

So: don't hate me... 


-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 08:59
I find Wilson boring.  I do enjoy Yorke.  


Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:20
Yorke is better as a singer. He's a good composer as well.

But lately, Wilson is a fantastic songwriter and his sound engineering keeps amazing me. (His 'insurgentes' solo album is as good as Porcupine Tree's best albums)

Not only that, he can play guitar and piano very well.


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:29
Originally posted by Zitro Zitro wrote:

Yorke is better as a singer. He's a good composer as well.

But lately, Wilson is a fantastic songwriter and his sound engineering keeps amazing me. (His 'insurgentes' solo album is as good as Porcupine Tree's best albums)

Not only that, he can play guitar and piano very well.


His guitar talents are questionable.
I can name members of this forum board who can play lead guitar better than Wilson.
Mr Progfreak, Epignosis and Negoba (forum user names, not actual names:P) all make Wilson look like a hack.
I find some of Wilson's solos to be cringe worthy.
The solo on the track Fear of a Blank Planet sounds like an afterthought to my mind, rather than something he sat down and figured out properly.
In fact, none of the solos on FOABP (the album I'm referring to now, not the song) are particularly good. Lifeson's solo is at least okay, but I think SW should have called in his friend Akerfeldt (phrasing, note choice, vibrato and bends to die for) instead to do the solo.
He's a great song writer, yes, a great rhythm guitarist too, but his ear for good phrasing, vibrato and just being able to write a well stuctured solo is just missing IMO.
A great solo is like a song within a song, that enhances a song.
A good solo is one that at least compliments the music well without being spectacular.
He can't even do a good solo, let alone a great one.


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Posted By: trili
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:51
I gave it to Wilson because I think he's more "versatile". But I have to agree with PM, although I think he has good ideas, he's not a good lead guitar player. 

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https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com



Posted By: belatarr
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:52
Okay okay.  First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke.  Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects.  Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands.  Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible.  Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like. 

The only thing that Thom Yorke has over Wilson is the voice other than that the man is just a frontman.  And one question to all the "progheads" out there?  Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples:  Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc... 


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Ricardo Otero Jr.


Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:56
^
While I agree with most of what you say here, I would say he can and has done good solos.......but no great ones, that's for sure.  But I don't really think of him as a great guitar player anyway (though I suppose his ability to play guitar and keys was presented in comparison to Yorke, who doesn't).  I think of him as a very good song writer, arranger, and most of all producer.  His lyrics are not all that great, but sometimes they are pretty good and they always serve the purpose lyrics are supposed to serve (at least, in my mind).

Radiohead has never really done anything for me and always strike me as kind of ordinary.  Of course, I don't really think Wilson's stuff is stunningly original either (I don't even think of either as prog honestly).  But for me it's easy, because I just simply prefer Wilson by a huge margin.




Posted By: trili
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:58
 
Originally posted by Captain Capricorn Captain Capricorn wrote:

Yorke ...he's simply inimitable

So is Yoko Ono. Smile

Just kiddin'.


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https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com



Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:09
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Okay okay.  First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke.  Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects.  Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands.  Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible.  Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like. 

1. Thom Yorke's lyrics are leagues ahead of Wilson's, and I like Wilson's (well, FOABP at least. Everything else is pretty terrible).
2. Making a shoegaze album doesn't make you some bold re-inventor, it means you listen to more than just space prog.
3. Thom Yorke an ass? First, that's not relevant to anything. Second, Thom Yorke isn't the guy bitching about the internet as something that ruins the drive to learn as opposed to being, you know, an avenue for instant research.
4. People like Radiohead because it's a good band. One of the nice things about the internet that Wilson disparages is that it's drained a great deal of 'hip' factor from music because fads come and go quicker than ever. Radiohead have earned their stripes. And Porcupine Tree are not an obscure band, and you trying to make them into one says more about your desire to seem hip than Radiohead's stack of "posers."


Posted By: schizoid_man
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:14
Steven Wilson for me.

Obviously both are influential although Yorke has had more mainstream success.  The problem is, Radiohead isn't Yorke's band the way PT is Wilson's.  SW also has taken PT into a direction much more ambitious than the last couple Radiohead albums.

To Yorke's credit, I haven't listened to his solo work like I have with Wilson's Insurgents.  Also, Yorke is much better with lyrics.


Posted By: schizoid_man
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:19
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Okay okay.  First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke.  Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects.  Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands.  Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible.  Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like. 

The only thing that Thom Yorke has over Wilson is the voice other than that the man is just a frontman.  And one question to all the "progheads" out there?  Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples:  Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc... 


+1 Clap


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:42
Originally posted by schizoid_man schizoid_man wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Okay okay.  First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke.  Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects.  Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands.  Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible.  Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like. 

The only thing that Thom Yorke has over Wilson is the voice other than that the man is just a frontman.  And one question to all the "progheads" out there?  Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples:  Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc... 


+1 Clap
+2Big smile


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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 15:53
I would agree, but Marillion's last album is boring to my ears. They turned from a dynamic progressive group with fantastic lyrics and theatrical vocals into just kind of hookless music with a  singer that doesn't seem to show much emotion (with a couple of exceptions like: "hapiness iiiiiiiiiiiiiiis the road!")


Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 18:48
Originally posted by sinkadotentree sinkadotentree wrote:

Originally posted by schizoid_man schizoid_man wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Okay okay.  First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke.  Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects.  Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands.  Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible.  Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like. 

The only thing that Thom Yorke has over Wilson is the voice other than that the man is just a frontman.  And one question to all the "progheads" out there?  Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples:  Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc... 


+1 Clap
+2Big smile
I agree with most of that .And to the poster who followed saying PT are not obscure.Try living in Australia and finding ANYONE that knows them other than people that appreciate progressive rock!
The number of times I wear a PT tshirt to concerts and get asked who are PT is amazing.If I was to wear a Radiohead tshirt I can guarantee that I would get not 1 comment.
To be fair I love Radiohead, just not as much as PT,SW.No-man,Blackfield etc,etc,etc.
As for Thom Yorke I was sold on him the day I heard his versions of the Roxy Music classics on the Velvet Goldmine soundtrack. Truly beautiful. Just wish he was a bit more accessable.ie come to Australia!


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"There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about"

MJK


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 04:02
Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

 
4. People like Radiohead because it's a good band. One of the nice things about the internet that Wilson disparages is that it's drained a great deal of 'hip' factor from music because fads come and go quicker than ever. Radiohead have earned their stripes. And Porcupine Tree are not an obscure band, and you trying to make them into one says more about your desire to seem hip than Radiohead's stack of "posers."

Agreed, I have seen P Tree's FOABP even in the most unabashedly commercial music stores in my city - and I am from India! - so P Tree is not obscure except maybe if you compare them to Coldplay.  Not that any of this has any relation to the topic, anyway.  I once heard somebody say that Yorke sounds a lot like Jeff Buckley, and that gentleman being my favourite male voice, is reason enough to vote for Yorke.   But I also agree with the person who said Greenwood is integral to Radiohead's music.  And yes, OK Computer is better than anything Wilson by miles and miles.  

You know, maybe Radiohead should make a few 20 minuters though that's not what I want to hear from them LOL, it would get them a bit more respect here I wager. Wink


Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 05:24
It's always nice too see this kind of topics always come down to the "A is better than B because I say so" argument.

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Bigger on the inside.


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 08:23
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

And one question to all the "progheads" out there?  Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples:  Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc... 


I'm a fan of progressive music, and that's why I don't like any of Marillion's periods.

Is that Steven Wilson album (I've not heard it) a true progression? I've seen it compared to Radiohead's The Bends, which is a an undaring, unprogressive, alternative rock album.


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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: trili
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 08:50
Last night I downloaded Insurgentes on iTunes (where you can also download trili) and was surprised to hear very good guitar solos. If he played the guitar solos, disregard my previous comment where I said he wasn't a good lead guitar player.

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https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com



Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 09:12
Steven does play all the guitar parts except for the lead on "Twilight Coda" ,and the guitar drones on a couple of songs. And i would rather have him playing on PT's albums then a virtuoso anyway.

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 09:34
I downloaded Insurgentes last night and haven't given it a proper listen so cannot really comment yet.
 
I love all PT and Radiohead - both are at the forefront of some amazing progressive music challenging the sterotypical boundaries, so this is a very hard choice.
 
I'm going to vote Wilson because I think, overall, he is the more talented in the round, i.e. songwriter, vocalist, guitarist, producer, washing of the dishes et al. Yorke, as amazing as he is, simply comes nowhere near in terms of that kind of talent and, of course, you could argue that Greenwood is as influential in Radiohead.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org


Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 13:33
Originally posted by dave-the-rave dave-the-rave wrote:

I vote Wilson.

I lost interest in Radiohead after they went bleepy/bloopy. Imagine all the great rock albums we'll never get from the guys who did OK Computer and The Bends.
 
Bleepy/bloopy LOL Maybe that should be a new cateogory here at PA.
 
I prefer Wilson while despite Radiohead having some fine moments PT and many of his side projects are more to my taste.


Posted By: belatarr
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 14:42
Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.  We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't.  Is there such a thing as a bad melody?  Or a good one?  One thing is having complex music and another is "bad" music.  In this poll I guess Radiohead fans defend Thom and PT defend Steven Wilson.   They are really not comprable if you think about it.  One is million selling band the other is rather popular band in a small circle of fans.  IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective.  In my post I tried to state facts.  Most reviews here are lkle "This albums is bad, there is no good song bla bla blac" but there is NEVER a reason to support such claims other than personal taste.  It kinda saddens me because it all loses credibility.

Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there. 


LOL when did I say PT was an obscure band?!?!!?! LOL anyways it all comes down to being objective and smart.  I may not like some piece of art BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT CRAP there are many movies and bands that I do not like that I sitll consider them to be art and masterpieces, they just don't apeal to me.  It's like all the 1 star reviews albums like Invisible Touch, Abacab, We Can't Dance get in here.  IT'S A FREAKING POP ALBUM, judged from progressive standars it OBVIOUSLY rates low, try looking up Selling England by the Pound in something like POP ARCHIVES and see how many stars it gets. LOL  Genesis made fantastic pop albums and they managed to include prog songs in them. 

Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...



-------------
Ricardo Otero Jr.


Posted By: santiagomo87
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 15:57
Ricardo I was also at both Radiohead and Peter Gabriel concerts and I think they were both great. I agree with you that Yorke didn't manage the connection with the audience I expected, and I also disliked his attitude towards us. Other than that, the music was greatly played and the lights and screens were amazing.
 
Getting back on topic this was a hard choice for me, I eventually voted for Yorke because of the diversity in all the different songs and albums. I know Wilson is also a very diverse artist but his latest albums (at least with Porcupine Tree) seem to be doing the same again and again. In contrast, Radiohead's In Rainbows explores a lot of new grounds in music that at least I didn't know of. Having seen them both playing live I dare say I enjoyed more Steven Wilson's style anyways.


-------------
Santiago


Posted By: trili
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:05
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.  We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't.  Is there such a thing as a bad melody?  Or a good one?  One thing is having complex music and another is "bad" music.  In this poll I guess Radiohead fans defend Thom and PT defend Steven Wilson.   They are really not comprable if you think about it.  One is million selling band the other is rather popular band in a small circle of fans.  IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective.  In my post I tried to state facts.  Most reviews here are lkle "This albums is bad, there is no good song bla bla blac" but there is NEVER a reason to support such claims other than personal taste.  It kinda saddens me because it all loses credibility.

Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there. 


LOL when did I say PT was an obscure band?!?!!?! LOL anyways it all comes down to being objective and smart.  I may not like some piece of art BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT CRAP there are many movies and bands that I do not like that I sitll consider them to be art and masterpieces, they just don't apeal to me.  It's like all the 1 star reviews albums like Invisible Touch, Abacab, We Can't Dance get in here.  IT'S A FREAKING POP ALBUM, judged from progressive standars it OBVIOUSLY rates low, try looking up Selling England by the Pound in something like POP ARCHIVES and see how many stars it gets. LOL  Genesis made fantastic pop albums and they managed to include prog songs in them. 

Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...


You're totally right about the solo part. For a solo to be good for someone  it only needs to "move" that person. Until a couple of solos I heard in Insurgentes I was never "moved" by Wilson's solos. I think to me they sounded cold. Technically probably the "problem" is his phrasing & vibrato. 


As for Yorke not being nice and whatever, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what his motives for making music are.  Some people just want to play music and not be clowns and asskissers. If the music "moved" you that's all that should matter. But that's just me...


-------------
https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com



Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:24
Originally posted by Moatilliatta Moatilliatta wrote:

Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

Originally posted by Swan Song Swan Song wrote:

I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer.
Really?

Anyway, Wilson is a million times more musical than Yorke could ever be... and those saying PT is just a mix of other bands sounds... so is Radiohead, mostly... neither is completely unique but whenever I hear one of each bands songs I immediately know it's them, they both have their own unique sounds. But as far as musicality Wilson is far superior and he keeps getting better... Yorke and Co. just keep spiraling off into nothingness making slight variations on the same record over and over again.
 
Really?
Yeah, really. Even try to argue that Radiohead's latest efforts have been anything more than mixes of their old guitar rock sound and their newer "bleeps and bloops" sound... really. I'm not going argue that PT is changing all that much either but don't claim Radiohead is... I wouldn't have a problem with this if people didn't claim Radiohead was doing anything new... because they aren't. As I said I like PT better because I think they're getting better... not because of some claim that they are "more progressive". If you genuinely think Radiohead is getting better then that's fine... I can't even imagine thinking going from Ok Computer to In Rainbows constitutes getting better, but if you do then cool.


Posted By: siko237
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:56
My god this is a good argument!!

Well, i definitely voted for Steven Wilson...but here are some comments i have:
1. Listen to Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' and Radiohead's 'Kid A'...there isn't much difference between the two...Eraser could've been released under Radiohead and no one would've been surprised..
2. IMO Jonny Greenwood is what gives Radiohead their edge, if it hadn't been for his input Radiohead would've sounded like any other altervative rock band..(who all sound like bad versions of Sonic Youth')
3. Steven Wilson's ability to mix an extremely large number of genres into each project is just amazing!!! The introduction of Noise music to insurgentes gave me goosebumps, as well as the increasing Post Rock influences seen in PT and No-man,
4. As for his guitar playing, SW never in any interview said he's a good guitar player, he even says he has troubles playing 'Normal' which is an extremely easy song, but his lines always serve the song, they add another dimension to the music, and never fails imo..
5. SW is a far better vocalist than Thom Yorke, i think since Kid A (their bleepy bloopy era..heh) his voice has just become plain annoying...and his falcetto is horrible when compared to those who do it right (Sigur Ros' Jonsi is a perfect example)...
6. SW is god...


-------------
i'm a shade and easy to ignore...


Posted By: dedokras
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:04

well, Yorke is much better than SW because I say so :) just kidding, but I think if you asked SW he would tell you the same ;)



Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:19
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.

I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting. 

Quote We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....

IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!


Quote Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.

Quote And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.

They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history. 

Quote Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...

"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael


Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:42

From now on, we will not review based on our own opinions of the album; we will judge it by set traits that we, as a unanimous collective, decide to be worthy of judging music by.



Posted By: belatarr
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 19:45
Relax man it's just a discussion in a forum.  Anyways since your inability to discuss without getting your teenage anger on the way I'll leave the discussion as it is.


-------------
Ricardo Otero Jr.


Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 20:19
i voted for steven wilson because all his music is really boring

-------------
FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 21:29
[QUOTE=Leningrad]

From now on, we will not review based on our own opinions of the album; we will judge it by set traits that we, as a unanimous collective, decide to be worthy of judging music by.

[/LOLQUOTE]

-------------
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 22:26
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Relax man it's just a discussion in a forum.  Anyways since your inability to discuss without getting your teenage anger on the way I'll leave the discussion as it is.


Is teenage anger worse than any other anger?


-------------


Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 22:28
Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.

I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting. 

Quote We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....

IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!


Quote Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.

Quote And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.

They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history. 

Quote Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...

"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael


1800iareyay just pwned belatarr



-------------


Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 22:30
Someone call the cops, there's been a raping. 

-------------
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 22:39
Originally posted by Petrovsk Mizinski Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:

Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.

I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting. 

Quote We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....

IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!


Quote Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.

Quote And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.

They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history. 

Quote Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...

"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael


1800iareyay just pwned belatarr



One of the best pwns since the ultimate pwn. 


-------------



Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 01:42
Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.

I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting. 

Quote We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....

IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!


Quote Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.

Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.

Quote And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.

They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history. 

Quote Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...

"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael
 
 


Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 15:44
Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

  IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective.  In my post I tried to state facts.  Most reviews here are lkle "This albums is bad, there is no good song bla bla blac" but there is NEVER a reason to support such claims other than personal taste.  It kinda saddens me because it all loses credibility.


  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there. 




interesting discussion here, belatarr ,  reviews are subjective here .. of course they are ! what else they might be!? review is made from one person , not whole group of people and it's quality would depend how one is good at doing it ,if you don't like the reviews ,don't read it !!  i suppose you haven't read many reviews .. becouse there are very good ones here not just that kind  you mentioned .  ''opinions here are mostly based on opinion''  LOL this stands out .. LINE TO REMEMBER !!!! 


Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 04:11
Jonny Greenwood is extremely important to Radiohead, sure, but isn't Richard Barbieri just as integral to PT's sound? Not to mention Gavin Harrison in the current line-up?

-------------
"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo


Posted By: Man Named Joe
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 04:14
Thom Yorke by a landslide.  He's more interesting vocally, miles ahead lyrically, and I don't know what he contributes to Radiohead's music in terms of songwriting, but I'm sure I prefer that contribution to anything that Steven Wilson has done, even if he's done it on his own.

To boil it down to its simplest components, Thom Yorke's name is associated with much, much better music.  Porcupine Tree are a decent enough band, but Radiohead stand miles above them (and most other bands, for that matter).


Posted By: ndiego
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 16:37
Steven Wilson, simply because i like hismusci better, i have nothing bad to say about thom yorke, only that he hasn't offered anything TO ME musically, besides, the producing skills of steven wilson have to count, he is incredible, his work for opteh, and all his skills for mixing in 5.1, (I can't wait to hear the 5.1 versions of king crimson's catalogue). When it comes to soundscapes and creating a mood or an environment steven wilson i feel also has a great lead 

-------------
"What lies north of the North Pole?" Stephen Hawking

"Poverty is the worst form of violence."
-Mohandas Gandhi


Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 21:26
Steven Wilson, simply because of his versatility as a song-writer, producer and musician. Thom Yorke - I liked his vocal style in early Radiohead albums but now is too falsetto for my liking. I honestly cannot see how TY can better SW as an all-round musician!!!

-------------

"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp




Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 01:27
What a hard poll. 
I mean, I love PT and Radiohead. Both are exceptional bands. 

But...I think I'll give the edge to Wilson. He has a bit more emotion in his singing, and the lyrics, if you know what I mean. Radiohead, whilst awesome, sound more detached and 'spacey', whereas PT feel more heartfelt. 

Which band is more influential? Radiohead for sure.

Which do I personally prefer? PT. 

But, both are great, don't get me wrong. Wilson and Yorke should collaborate. That would be so awesome.


-------------
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...


Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 01:31
Originally posted by Leningrad Leningrad wrote:

Originally posted by 1800iareyay 1800iareyay wrote:

Originally posted by belatarr belatarr wrote:

Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one?  I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here.
I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting. 
Quote We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!
Quote Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed.  Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication.  And put on a hell of a show.
Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.
Quote And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep.  In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.
They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history. 
Quote Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please.  Give me a link to their bands.  If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...
"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael

 

 



+100


-------------


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 01:38
ConfusedDisapprove Am I missing something from this poll????


Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 06:38
They both sound very similar imo, i yust got my first porcupine tree album "in absentia" and it sounds very much like a radiohead album. Cant realy say which one is the best but it seems Wilson is the more productive, and working alot with other artists.

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Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 23:42
Steven Wilson.

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The planet is fine the people are f**ked.
-George Carlin-


Posted By: Badabing666
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 18:09
Originally posted by camilleanne camilleanne wrote:

Steven Wilson.


Ditto


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