Gazpacho as an instant classic?!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57145
Printed Date: April 23 2024 at 06:28
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Topic: Gazpacho as an instant classic?!
Posted By: stewe
Subject: Gazpacho as an instant classic?!
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 17:22
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I don't quite get the point about this band and their Tick Tock... is something wrong with algorithm on PA?:) How can be their new album in such few days among the twenty best all time prog albums...? Do you think it deserves such adoration? I listened to it few times, and disappointed me. Sounds to me like one mid tempo track, full of whimping, that make one fall asleep. X derivation of Marillion (with Hoghart), but flat, without intensity. Don't count that, but also seeing them live, was also strange experience. Unlike most neo prog band (quite modest and friendly) this band seemed like they percieve themselves as stars, especially singer looked like self-important. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow">  <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 17:26
that is why .... ..again for the 1000th time those rankings are useless.... and no. .there is nothing wrong with the algorithm..this will get you into top 20 of the album list  4.86 | 20 ratings Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Tasartir
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 17:27
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Although they did seem quite cold and detached when I saw them live, I think they played brilliantly and deserve all the praise they can get! The way a band looks and acts has nothing to do with their music. ------------- ...Histoires Sans Paroles... |
Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 17:38
It was only observation. But that is no relevant straightly to the music, to the new album. I'm wondering what I missed in their music... because usually top PA albums have the strong impact to me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Tasartir wrote:Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 17:44
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In which list is it in the top 20? 'cos the All Time list only shows albums with more than 25 ratings. ------------- yeah |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 21:16
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Night was better. Jus' sayin'.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 03:25
| It'll get pulled down once more people review it, don't worry. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 03:28
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when you name yourself after soup, you're asking for trouble |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 03:40
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I reckon that the top 100 is more of a rough guide rather than the best albums ever. Best to take it with a grain of salt. Can isn't in the top 100, and I don't think Magma or Henry Cow are either. I see top 100 more as albums by the more popular bands or else albums that are good as an introduction and more accessible prog rock rather than a definitive statement of quality. I mean my favourite bands are both in and out of the top 100, while my least favourite are both in and out of the top 100. So I think in the end I think it doesn't really matter. ------------- |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 04:00
I wouldn't call the rankings "useless" ... it's a brilliant album, and if those rankings get some people to check out that album then I would say: Mission accomplished!  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Neil Palfreyman
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 05:05
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It's a great album from a very impressive band. I bought all of their albums more or less as soon as I heard them and pre-ordered Tick Tock. I saw them for the first time at the Islington Academy last Wednesday and thought they were absolutely stunning. The playing was very tight, emotional and they were clearly enjoying it - can't wait to see them again at Loreley. For me it's dead cert 5. ------------- Question everything, believe nothing We talk music, we talk nothing |
Posted By: steve_moss
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 09:46
| In think it is an album with a lot of depth and emotion. Each song is linked to the rest & they tell an interesting story. The album offers more up after each listen. It is definitely an album that needs to be listened to on headphones to do it justice. Highly recommended. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 10:15
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It only has three written reviews (which are weighted more), all of which are 5 stars. The others are ratings only. In due time, it will likely fall into the 4.00 range. If not, then it must be a helluva album. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 10:48
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Umphrey's Mantis (a fave of mine) sat at 5.00 for awhile until the buzz about it from the people who really liked the band got people with a wider range of taste to try it out. The rating is starting to auto-correct as it should. Statistics actually do work. It does leave some "undiscovered gems" but there have been efforts to reveal those as well. Gazpacho will certainly end 2009 with more than 50 reviews and I wouldn't be surprised if more than 100. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: demolition man
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 14:03
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Superb album, surpassing "Night" and i must say that the band deserve a lot of credit.
Seen them 3 times live now and they are very accomplished musicians.
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Posted By: TealFoxes
Date Posted: April 17 2009 at 17:52
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It's a real shame because that list was not only accurate a couple years ago, but was fantastic for beginners of prog who didn't know exactly where to start. Now it's just unreliable and degrades oh so many albums that should be in the top ten prog albums list instead. Tick Tock's not a bad album at all though. Give it a listen, but it's not essential.
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Posted By: Doomcifer
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 10:14
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I find it extremely boring but havent given up yet. It's just the initial rush of enthusiasm and will eventually even out as more people review it. ------------- Greater is the man who conquers himself, than he who conquers a hundred times a hundred on the battlefield. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 11:29
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hmmm... another 5 star review posted I see on the front page... thinks I need to check the album out. Liked the first one I heard but it really isn't my style so wasn't looking forward or paying much attention to this one. So much music.. so little time hahha. anyhow... I'll bite.. and see what I am missing... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Gorgo Ourgon
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 11:34
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I've given the album three listens now & I'm not exactly sure what all of the fuss is about. I agree it's a fair album, but I don't think it's any where near what it's being made out to be. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 11:47
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we had a mini discussion in the collab zone about a album I found in the top 50 a couple of weeks ago in a similar vein. Less than 30 reviews.. but nearly everyone that reviewed it gave it 5 stars. With everyone and ALL the different tastes in music... that should stand up and say... YO!! check me out f**ka! Of course when I did.. I found it to be a decent album.. and not anywhere deserving (in my mind) of the top 50. A closer look showed me that the only people that had reviewed in were of the nationality of the group.. so sometimes it can be a clue that something needs to be heard... and sometimes not. I saw yesterday that particular album got tweeked out of the top rankings. It only had 15 or so reviews. Maybe M@X should place a limit of 50 reviews to make the top 100 while albums sort themselves out.. but then again.. maybe not... this album is obviously good enough.. and the group obviously well-known enough that those opinions are coming from a wider spectrum. Time will tell if it will stay on the list... but itsn't the whole purpose of the site to discover...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Gorgo Ourgon
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 11:51
I think that's a great idea. IMO, an album has no business in the top 100 if it hasn't even reached a broad audience. -------------
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Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: April 18 2009 at 18:44
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I think this album (Tick Tock) deserves to be listened to...I agree that the 10th position in the all time list is a bit high, but it's great music and if this position (only temporary for sure) helps more people to listen to this great album, than that's fine by me...Gazpacho makes great music and it's good to see it promoted...
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:04
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Isn't it obvious that there's a fanboy or two (or a record label) creating all those 5-star reviews?
Look at how many other ratings and reviews those 5-star reviewers have. Only one of them- russelk- isn't suspicious.
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Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:53
I very much like the music these guys play but what I like more is that
love them or hate them, this is the kind of thread that every band
wishes for. You just can't pay for this kind of promotion/advertising. 
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:55
Actually, I think you can.
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:55
Or maybe a limit of 10 collaborator reviews. If 50 ratings without reviews are all it takes, people could create as many accounts and make that happen. Yes, they don't have a life!  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:04
It's also obvious that you've just registered for sharing this marvellous opinion. ------------- yeah |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:10
| Does that make the point any less valid? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:33
I have investigated this allegation and found no case to answer. This is neither fanboy-ism, ratings rigging nor abuse.
All the reviews and ratings are from unique IP addresses - no two IP addresses share the same ISP - only four share the same country and there is no regional geographical correlation in those either.
Taking the vote breakdown by country I discovered that the 33 votes cast come from 22 different countries:
Argentina X 2
Australia Belarus Bulgaria X 2 Chile Czech Republic Denmark Germany Greece Hungary Italy X 2 Moldova Netherlands X 2 New Zealand Norway Poland X 2 Russian Federation Spain X 2 Spain Turkey United Kingdom X 4 United States X 2 My conclusion from this is that Gazpacho has achieved the prog holy grail - universal aclaim.
More power to them I say  ------------- What? |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:37
| Really? Where were the ones who actually *reviewed* the album? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:46
Denmark, Spain, Poland, New Zealand, UK, UK  ------------- What? |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 12:03
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Well, I guess I could have just checked for myself. Apparently they each say they're from different countries, so maybe they are real. I honestly don't know. But it sure is suspicious, that's all I'm saying.
70 percent of the reviews are from people who have only reviewed 1-4 albums. Compare that to any other album!
No, I can't PROVE the ratings aren't real, but neither can anyone else really prove they are. Let's face it, stuff like this has happened on Progarchives before, and I wouldn't be surprised if labels and fanboys have found a way to circumvent whatever policing there may be.
In the end, it's up to regular old users to not get swept up in hype. But it really seems like many users on Progarchives are easily duped....
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Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 12:12
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. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 12:24
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@Dean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network) Good news is: most Tor proxies can be identified by IP address. Maybe you can pass this along to M@x ... anonymous access to PA should be possible, but IMO not for submitting ratings! ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:42
Will do - thanks Mike.
...of course any proxy can be tricked into reveailing it's true IP, no one can be 100% anonymous since the end-points are fixed. ------------- What? |
Posted By: demolition man
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:44
Hello, suspicious here!
 I have seen the band 3 times live and they are superb.
Maybe you should listen to the album and give it a rating?
yes this was my first review and i did submit a full review but only after submitting a 5* rating (too late to go back, but i did submit my review via the feedback link.......maybe it will be posted?)
A fanboy? No, just a Gazpacho fan
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Posted By: demolition man
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:45
Not sure i like the Groupie tag 
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Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:47
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This thread turned to be interesting:) I have thought it could be an easy promotion among proggers, by achieving such respectable position here. Because there are lot such reviews from unknown one-shot writers. It would be interesting to find out the proxy IP adresses of these obscure reviewers, it will prove or disprove it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:47
Hi! Contact an admin, and he will give your review to your rating if you send it him! ------------- yeah |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:58
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I did listen to some stuff from "Night" a few years ago and was utterly unimpressed. Nothing stood out as bad, but nothing stood out as good. It was well-produced though. Thing is, I don't want to reward fanboyism/hype/overly-positive reviews by checking them out again. That's what all these 5-star reviews achieve... everybody wants to see what the big deal is.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:59
I agree - I raised this point in the Xover team thread myself. However, all early reviews and ratings do come from people who like the album, regardless of who the band is - over time the ratings will drop. We have seen this before with bands like Satellite and Phideaux.
I have neither the time nor the energy to trawl through all albums looking for similar or disimilar cases. However, ones that do immediately come to mind are Pendragon's Pure and Satellite's Into The Night.
The label is question is Happy Thoughts Productions, which is of course Gazpacho's own label - if you suspect the label then you suspect the band. Since any anomalous spikes like this will be investigated then I would have though the risks outweigh the benefits, especially when one of those risks is to prompt a backlash of 1-star retaliations.
Fanboys are another issue but easily spotted, fanboys who employ anonymous proxies are slightly harder but not impossible to spot.
Really? How do you know this?
------------- What? |
Posted By: demolition man
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:04
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I have submitted my album report to Dean
Thanks Diaby
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Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:23
I don't know, but it seems like all it takes is a few 5-star reviews, whether they're from dubious sources or not, to convince everyone that a band has universal appeal and is something everyone needs to check out.
Funny you mention Satellite and Phideaux- those are two other times I got suspicious too, plus Nexus-Perpetuum Karma....
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Posted By: Bodysnatcher
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:28
Hi, I wrote a review about Gazpachoīs Tick, Tock, my first review in Progarchives but not the last one, I am sure.
If I havenīt written anymore reviews before is because English is not my native language - I am Spanish - and my command of the English language is not good, I am still learning, but I thought I had some things to say about this Gazpachoīs work - call it ' my humble opinion ' if you want - and...... well, some review has to be the first one !. This Gazpacho review was just my first attempt, being very daring and hoping you all forgive the possible mistakes .
I wish I was able of writing in English the fantastic reviews I have read in Progarchives about some of my fav bands, such as Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Riverside etc.....but I am afraid it will take me some time get to that level !.
Cheers,
Paloma. ------------- Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there.... |
Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:56
I understand, but there are many these first reviews... it can be coincidence, but it's at least suspicious. Album which was released few days ago holds status of indisputable prog masterpiece of all times. 5-star ratings for such timeless (and difficult if we speak about prog) music usually need some time interval for making opinion and appreciation. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Posted By: Bodysnatcher
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:10
Yes, and I fully understand what you mean.
I donīt know if it just a coincidence or not. Maybe it is.
I was just expecting the album to be released, cos I was impressed by Night - as I say in my review - and once I listened to Tick Tock I simply loved it, to the point I play it several times a day and I am thinking I am going to stop playing it for some time cos I donīt want it to be overplayed so soon !!.
 ------------- Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there.... |
Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:29
If it is really a masterpiece, it shouldn't overplay so soon.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Posted By: Bodysnatcher
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:41
Well, I can assure I have overplayed masterpieces such as Selling England or Aqualung.....for example !
Btw, I am not new in the forum either, but it is a long time I hadnīt posted here and for some reason, I am not able of log in with my old username.
Paloma.
------------- Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there.... |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:44
of course. But one can use tor from a stationary computer and it will appear like every request (click) is coming from a completely different IP (proxy end point). ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 00:01
You're welcome! ------------- yeah |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 01:04
I haven't heard this one yet but I know Night (their previous) and your statements above go for this album as well. It was exactly what I thought while listening to "Night". The music is somewhat underwhelming but still is full of quality. The violin solo on Night's closing track is absolutely beautiful and I guess it could be a reason for the high scores of that album. I'm in doubt if I will have a go at Tick Tock, at least it's arousing one's curiosity those high scores. Looking at the comments it could be a sort of album like Phideaux' Doomsday Afternoon. High quality but because of the high expectations bound to disappoint.
I think I'll go for it one day. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 06:42
If an album starts getting a number of 5 star reviews then its bound to raise interest in the rest of us. When an album is released it is always going to be the fans of that band that buy it first (lets not count the really big bands, you get people buying the new album to check them out and see what all the fuss is about) and so review it first. The high ratings will mean the album will reach a wider audiance some of those are bound to dislike it so the ratings sort themselves out, just give it time. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 07:25
Cool - show me. ------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Bodysnatcher
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 07:58
And reflecting again about why all these ratings ( high ratings in this case ) and reviews.....well, I think it is logical to write about a new album which has just been released better than an ( old or not ) album that you can find already reviewed and rated .
Just my opinion. ------------- Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there.... |
Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:10
This makes sense, but sometimes I think people see an album with like a 4.5 rating, and they give it a 4 or 5 just to go along with the crowd.
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Posted By: thornw
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:18
Well, I know there are agencies that you can pay to generate plays on myspace and there are reviewers on Amazon you can pay to get positive reviews from. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a place you can pay to generate positive discussion on a band for sites like progarchives. Again, I can't *prove* it, but neither can you *disprove* it. Talk to someone who works in Internet advertising- you'd be amazed how deceitful a lot of it is.
There are freelance advertisers who specialize in ground-up advertising and have hundreds of user accounts for hundreds of message boards... I admit the evidence for something like that happening with this Gazpacho album is weaker than I thought it was at first. But this kind of thing does happen... don't believe every review you read....
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Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:59
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: demolition man
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 16:28
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Still loving the new album.
Great driving music !
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Posted By: AlanOB
Date Posted: April 29 2009 at 09:58
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I think there's a bit of new artist bias going on here. Isn't it possible that Tick Tock may be in the Top Albums list entirely on merit? I've listened to prog for a long time, and it's been a while since I've been this excited by a new act. Night was one of the freshest sounding albums of this decade, and to surpass it with their latest effort is truly astounding. I honestly think they're one of the bands who will inspire a legion of followers as their sound is unique, a rarity I'm sure you'll agree. As such they deserve the plaudits they are receiving. |
Posted By: scudge1970
Date Posted: April 29 2009 at 10:43
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Hi
I had been using PA as a resource for some time, and it was the release of 'Tick Tock' that inspired me to write my first review. I did not expect it to be greeted with such cynicism!!!
I submitted an honest review after listening to the album a number of times. I have since see them perform it live. And I ansolutely stand by my 5-star review.
To me this is a masterpiece as it ticks all the right boxes in terms of what I look for in progressive music.
I have since added more ratings for other bands and hope to add further reviews in due course, including some of the 'classics'.
Kind regards
Scudge1970
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Posted By: Bodysnatcher
Date Posted: April 29 2009 at 15:00
Yes, I second those words ! ------------- Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there.... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 02 2009 at 21:04
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It's now 209th with 51 votes. See, we said it would sort itself out. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: May 02 2009 at 22:45
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And still it's a classic! 9 or 209 it remains the best album of 2009!!!
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: May 02 2009 at 23:25
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I've just caught up with this thread. I'm guilty/responsible for being the first prog reviewer to review GAZPACHO's 'Tick Tock'. I gave it 5 stars. Can I make a few points about this, please? Giving an album 5 stars does not mean I endorse it as one of the ten best prog albums of all time. I was careful in my review to note that it is the very best of its genre, in my opinion. I tried to indicate why I thought this. It's not the strongest 5-star album I've heard - if we had 10 stars it would have received nine. The anger and suspicion generated by this thread has come about because people put too much faith in the rating and not enough in the review. I am not a GAZPACHO fanboy - I cordially dislike their first three albums. I have not been approached by the band or any of their representatives to write a positive review. Because I was aware that such sentiments might arise, I was careful with what I said in the review. I purchased the album from iTunes on the day of its release, and listened to the album about 12 times before posting the review a week later. I've posted many reviews of albums based on fewer listens. I'm an experienced and knowledgeable lover of music and former musician, and feel confident I've assessed the album the way I saw it. Those who know my reviewing style know I do give quite a few 5-star reviews. All that said, I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that many prog listeners will find the album uninspiring, boring and without merit. If you take the time to read the reviews for 'Night', you'll see this trend apparent. Music like this is by no means everyone's cup of tea. It's never going to achieve universal acclaim. Finally, surely it's the nature of things for good, newly-released albums to gain an initial very positive ranking? Fans buy the album early, and are inspired to write reviews early. Surely the casual reader ought to factor this in when considering making a purchase? |