10 Point Review System
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57720
Printed Date: June 16 2024 at 15:06
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 10 Point Review System
Posted By: Lucent
Subject: 10 Point Review System
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:01
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It seems that everyone here is giving "half stars" to albums when I read their reviews. I see a 3.5 or 4.5. Well, why don't we solve this problem and have a 10 point system? We can then have people who are "on the fence" get off the fence and post a more accurate rating for the album of which they have reviewed. |
Replies:
Posted By: OzzProg
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:06
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Amen brother, I agree completely. I would love to see the 10 star system or 5 star system (with half stars) Unfortunately this has been discussed to death (if I remember correctly?), and it seems to have been left as is for the time being. -------------  |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:07
what would happen to the people who have 3000 reviews? Figure that out and you may have a better argument 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:14
I'm starting to like Ian's idea more every day. Just drop the ratings altogether and let the reviews speak for themselves. That would solve so many problems in one swoop, and make people look to words rather than numbers for inspiration on what to buy. No more fanboy street teams out there pumping the scores of their fave band above the competition. No more endless debate about weighting, 5 or 10, et al. ------------- |
King By-Tor wrote:Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:17
| or reverse the algorithm so that 1 is a masterpiece and 5 is poor! |
Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:23
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I would say that the actual system is quite functionnal from the visitors perspective and point out good prog music in the end. From a contributors point of view it seem limitative but , we want to help new prog geek complete their collection so ... I think PA work in that way. Improvements come progressively .... ------------- Prog On ! |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:29
Great reviewer!  I completely agree...I would like all watchers here to read review contents rather than ratings. P.S. LOL for your phrase "FANBOY STREET TEAMS"... ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:31
| True point M@X. But I do think sometime in the future a 10 point system would be perfect. Would make it easier to rate albums, (instead of struggling between a 3 and 4) an really is a better system. The difference from a 4 to 5 is pretty immense on the current scale, it'd be nice to be able to say 8, 9, or 10. Fewer albums would have "10" ratings IMO as well. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:31
Yes. Whether its a 5 or 10 point system, after hundreds and hundreds of ratings, you'll end up at about the same average either way. The important thing is weeding out those attempting to schew the ratings, and the weighting helps address this issue. ------------- |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:35
Wow. I never thought of something so brilliant in my entire life.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 21:49
I believe you.  Seriously though your idea is a popular one that has been brought up often. Search out some of those threads and you can read both the concerns and the thoughts of those who agree. ------------- |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 06:26
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I'm sorry, but I don't have time to read through endless reviews to determine what I think I might like to purchase next. The ratings give me an "at a glance" idea of what many people think is an excellent album, and I can read the reviews for more information. Additionally, there are certain people whose opinions I really look for (ClemofNazareth is one of them); if I see he rates an album 1 or 2 stars, I immediately want to know what he didn't like, and vice versa for high ratings. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 06:34
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If the OP would like to buy the site off the owner and implement it himself, sure thing. But come on, you've been a member since September 2007, you know this has been suggested again and again and again. It's a dead horse that's been beaten for way too long, I think by now people would have figured it out it's not going to happen and if by some miracle it does, not in the near future. I agree that the 10 point system can come in handy, but you've got more choice of getting hit by a bus than having this implemented. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 07:09
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Why stop there? How about 20 point? 50 point? If you want more points for the system, there's always ratingsfreak. The last time there was one of these threads I took the position against because it's the system people have been using and there's already a gazillion existing ratings based on it. Plus people love to discuss their fractional ratings in their reviews and do silly things like round down a .5.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 07:46
I don't lurk here due to my disgust with the general prog community, so I wouldn't know. I just look here to get news, despite this place being about as fair and balanced as Faux News. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:08
This site is extremely fair to those willing to participate with good will and a little effort. Ridiculously fair some might say, we have endless debates here where everyone speaks their mind before the Admin makes a decision. That is democracy in action.
You come here and contribute nothing but whining and name-calling, then complain that the community is unfair and that you hate us.
------------- |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:48
An overexaggeration. I tap progarchives lightly on the shoulder and you consider it an assault charge. The post was to state that I didn't lurk much due to a certain reason. Stop being a hypocrite and derailing my thread. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:01
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I also agree with this idea, but I accept it's impossible to implement because of the ratings already made. You can't turn someone's *** into a 6 because it may have been actually a 5 rounded up or a "7 really!" rounded down a la Sean Trane
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:09
5 steps here, 100 steps at PF ... I guess that this situation is permanent.
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:35
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I have felt for years now the 10point system would be the best. ------------- 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:50
Don't even know where to begin...so I won't. I'll let you get back to your constructive activities now...... ------------- |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:01
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Progfreak being a companion site in some ways makes this un-necessary, though I like the idea in general. I also think that having to make a decision is good.
As many have said, the rating is a great entry point while you're trolling for new albums to try. Then once you've narrowed it, you read some reviews and you get a great idea. Often one person criticizes an element than another praises, but they both agree on its presence on the album.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 12:48
| Why not just implement half stars. Then you still have 10 possible choices for new reviews without really borking the old ones. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 13:20
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I prefer the 5 star system in place. It forces me to think more critically about the music in order to assign a rating to it, which in turn, I think, makes my reviews a little better.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 13:29
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It's an absolute certainty, and I would be willing to wager a lot of money on this, that if the site moved to a 10 star system, someone, fairly quickly, would award an album 8.5 stars because they thought the album was in between the two The points made re averaging out are well made, and I also agree with Epignosis. There are reviewers and members/collaborators on this site who I trust to make a sound judgement. Actually, he is one of them ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 14:30
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I'm confused...when/where does the rounding take place? Isn't traditional scientific rounding used? -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 14:39
Yeppers. I dislike it when people imply it's a slippery slope or something to up the system to 10 points. Do you really feel an 82/100 album is as different from an 83/100 albums as a 8/10 album is from a 9/10 album. If so then...I really don't know how to respond to that. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:23
 ------------- Prog On ! |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:32
And why would that be a bad thing? -------------
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Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:42
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To StyLaZyn: 1. It's endless , 10 pts, then 10pts with 0.5, then 100 , then 99.9 ... 2. Because every time we need to change or adapt the system, we must take into considerationthe 175 000 ratings done with the 5 stars and find a way to updrade them to the new system. ------------- Prog On ! |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:54
So in other words, you would be allowing people to change their ratings. -------------
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Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 15:55
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@StyLaZyn: Of course !!!
------------- Prog On ! |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 19:58
And next , we'll be asking for a piece of Pi  You work with what you got. 5, 10, 20. Like Slarti says - why stop at any given number. Heck, how many numbers after the decimal - " I would give this album 274.2918171932049, but instead I'll round it up to 274.2918171932050 because that second to last note in the flugelhorn solo on track 6 is just mind blowing. " Or to quote Buzz Lightyear - "To infinity ... and beyond !"  Picky person #1 - "SEBTP is a masterpiece that deserves to outrank all others - therefore, I believe that Infinity plus one is the only score I can give ". Picky person # 2 - "I disagree, WYWH is better, and I give it infinty plus 2.4." Normal person (un-numbered) -" I really love Harmonium's Cinq Saisons. I reminds me of my last year of university and a girl I met. Somehow, the music, even at that time, takes me away in a dream". Which one really gives you anything ? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 00:25
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The reason I want half stars is because there are many albums that I like enough that I don't want to lower their rating from a 4.3, but I don't think I can legitimately give five stars to. I suspect the reason is the same for many of the other proponents, but unfortunately that would soon lead to ratings inflation and the problem would begin again. But the half stars as a slippery slope argument is kind of silly.------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 00:28
* spits cookies on to screen * |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 01:01
| So many excellent points made against a new system. I feel taking away the ratings completely would lessen the overall ease of access effectiveness PA makes available for glance suggestions. I also think that adding more points to the system would make too much importance be put in ratings, when I do agree that the review itself is much more important than any number. The 5 star system forces you to fight harder to arrive at a decision, and perhaps ensures more quality reviews in all. I feel it gives weight to the glance suggestion, and doesn't devolve into streams of covertly meaningless numbers. Not that I have added much, but I felt like wasting time offering my opinion. |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 01:40
I totally agree with you, Robert. that's exactly how it works with me. Once you get to know certain reviewers that have more or less the same taste as you, not only the reviews but also the ratings are very significant.
And as I also said in another thread: leaving the ratings completely out is a very bad idea because you can't start to read all 200.000 reviews here to find a good album. The ratings are a starting point to give a first impression and then you read the reviews. Also the subgenres are essential in this respect of course ! ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 17:59
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I've been going through Saga's catalogue as I come across their albums. I felt kind of bad about the ratings I gave on Images & Silent Knight, because it brought down the overall score. But then, if that is the biggest concern, are you trying to rate the album or the standing ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 18:22
In this case, those who want to change their ratings can do it, and those who don't want or can, will have no problem, being that it's still a 5 stars system and thei 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 stars will ve as valid as before the change. And also notify that no more changes will be done in this.
Cheers
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 22:09
^That's the idea Ivan... Brilliant... I'm all for it...  ------------- 
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Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 01:08
Me too  . Don't forget this is a constant recurring theme ! And it would satisfy many reviewers, I'm very sure of that. And also Ivan's idea to leave it at that and make that very clear could solve the problem of constant new proposals in the ratingsystem.------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 01:17
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Oh no. No no no. I've worked out my own little system WITHIN the five point system. A ten point system would drive me nuts. Probably. Actually, no, it probably wouldn't. But that's beside the point. I'd have to...gasp...EDIT REVIEWS! Webber. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 08:04
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Again, I don't think a half-star system is necessary, but of course, that's one fellow's opinion.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 09:43
Not necessary, not even ratings are necessary, everything we add has to be better only.
This is my proposal
Whistler: Yes, I know some will have to change the reviews, but that would be voluntary, If I'm not wrong you have 88 reviews, that wouldn't be so traunatic.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 09:49
I understand it could be broken down that way, but I think it's just too nitpicky. As I mentioned elsewhere, the five star system forces us to think critically about the music. There have been a few times when I've had a tough time deciding between a 3 and a 4, but the fact that I have to choose one or the other makes me listen more carefully to the music. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 09:58
I agree, but we are not here only for those with the abbility to discriminate as well as you do or people who simply don0t want to give that extra effort and fall in incredible contradictions.
I read reviews about albums that are above average and end being rated with twio stars.
Th Average rating marks a breaking point that would help a lot, now the Average is not marked, but it's still 3 stars, despite this fact, many people think is too low, others believe average is 2 stars..
Plus a masterpiece doesn't has to be essential for everyybody.
We are here to get more reviews and to make people's work easier, not ours maybe, we are willing to give that extra step, but many won't and we will gain more reviews
But again, this for mailto:M@x - M@x to decide
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:03
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How about a letter system : A - Hi B - Hello C - Good Evening ------------- |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 03:30
Again 100% subscribe ! The biggest problems for my ratings are indeed between 3 and 4 stars. And I have seen at least a thousand ! (and probably many more) 3.5 ratings when I read reviews. So that confirms my statement that this is a significant problem. But also the masterpiece status of albums suffers in the recent system. I have about 35 five starratings but there is big difference between them and some of them are screeming for a 4.5 possibility. And of course there are also 4 star cases that are in fact 4.5 and they are done hard by right now. With Ivan's proposal it could all be solved leaving the raters and reviewers much more satisfied with the outcome.
And Ivan is also right about the two star problem. I'm convinced many albums have received two stars but are actually 2.5 and I think that's a big difference to the album. Especially the more critical reviewers like Kenethlevine, Zowieziggy and Sean Trane could adjust many many ratings and have given two stars just because the albums were a bit less than the real good ones.
I think in the end it makes a big difference for many albums (I already posted a topic about this) especially those who have just a few reviews or ratings. Again I will give this example that makes it all clear:
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=402 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=402
In this example this album would get some 3,2 as average instead of 2,96. Makes a difference doesn't it ? ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 18:05
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I agree completely with Ivan and Progrules: Let all existing ratings stand, but introduce 0.5 steps in between. Since all members can now edit their reviews (I just received a mail about that), it would enable me to rate some albums which I gave 5* to 4.5*, simply because I think they are a masterpiece, but I recognize that they are not necessarily also a masterpiece for the whole genre prog. Stated differently...I can then distinguish between what I think is great, and what I think is essential to all prog lovers. Now this choice is not available...
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 18:12
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I think indeed Ivan's opinion be very good, but can M@X change the system easily? I'm afraid it's so hard for him...and how should be the ratings previously posted? Hmm... ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 18:19
No need to change anything, because:
But we must forget about the 1 to 10 new system,. because in that case, the 5 stars rating would represent average, so lets stay with the 5 system but with EXTRA half points, in the worst scenario, an album awarded with 4.5 or 5 will still be a masterpiece and a 0.5 and a 1 star rating will also be very much close to say "better avoid it pal" Iván -------------
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 20:19
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So Sean Trane could go through his 1000 plus reviews and amend those that he wrote were really x.5 ?
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 23:06
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I would literally have to go through a bunch of reviews and completely re-write them, because I wrote them based on a 5-star system. I also agree with Robert (Epignosis) that the 5-star system forces listening to the music more carefully and I think the limiting choice of stars is actually a benefit in this case, rather than something negatively restricting. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 01:33
Introducing a new 10 star system would be as easy as introducing half steps ... you would simply have to multiply existing ratings by 2, which is no problem at all in an sql database.  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 01:36
Indeed. And let's not forget: the 5 star system is a general reward system used all ove rthe world in all kinds of media and not even just for music, also for movies for instance. And at least half of those use the half star possibility. So it's not uncommon or not done. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 03:50
Exactly Ivan  , thanks...but,
Oo...so hard efforts. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 10:55
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I'll propose an alternative - Apples & Oranges. You get to choose the number of apples & oranges to make up a total of 5. This should be readily seen as the best system as you can't compare apples & oranges . And not just to each other. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 12:41
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I see the proposal good but i am with Ivan this time -------------  |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 13:13
------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 13:19
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I have no problem with the 5 point system as long as people obey the proper mathematical rules of rounding. Alas, mine is apparently a lost cause. Unfortunately, before I came on the scene some of the higher ups were already guilty of misrounding so all hope is lost.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 14:00
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How about a bomb system. Instead of one star for say Triumvirat`s a La Carte we could just give a little picture of a bomb. Like the one in The Pink Panther Strikes Again. No review just a silly picture of a bomb.
------------- |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 20:45
Oops, forgot to add tomatoes, fresh & rotten. Or maybe eggs. So here I come - a rating is to be composed of a combination of apples, oranges, tomatoes, Watermelons, and a root vegetable to be named later. In the interest of obfuscation, no definition nor description of the meaning of each symbol or combination(s) thereof will be issued. Therefore, any arguing over the validity of a rating will be meaningless. as meaningless as the rating itself. Rating this idea - I give it 2 apples, 1 orange, 1.5 watermelons, and reserve the assign the remaining 0.5 to the so far nameless root vegetable later. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: eddz
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 21:35
And that's the truth ------------- 
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