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Opeth Dilemma

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Topic: Opeth Dilemma
Posted By: Geee
Subject: Opeth Dilemma
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 02:51

Hi Guys and Girls

I seem to have a problem with Opeth.  The first album that I ever heard of theirs was Damnation - Simply awesome prog album.  I didn't know who they were before this album.  Since I liked this album I made it a point that I get hold of the whole discography.  What a shock!  Almost all of their albums are Death Metal.  My dilemma is how can a band that releases such marvelous album like Damnation, release Death Metal Music?

Cheers

PS Having said that I still have to say that even their Death Metal releases, musically are very technical, and I don't know how this will sound, and 'progressive'. But the vocals!



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."




Replies:
Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:10
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But the vocals!



Yes, the vocals are great and Mikael is the best Death metal singer the world has ever seen. Is there a problem here?


Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:13
I have the exact opposite dilemma; Damnation sounds neutered to me but I like just about everything else.

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http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">


Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:16
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But the vocals!



Yes, the vocals are great and Mikael is the best Death metal singer the world has ever seen. Is there a problem here?

When he does the clean parts IMO he has one of the greatest voices!  That's my dilemma.  How can a man with such a great voice, use growling.  As I told you I am not dishing the music.  I already said it it is great.  Usually growlers are those who cannot sing, whereas Mikael CAN SING!

Cheers



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:32
What has always fascinated me in Opeth's music, is that they combine metal and prog, growls and cleans, hard rocking and mellow, in a quite unique way. And I think Mikael is the right man to sing both growls and cleans, he's the best at both! But if you don't like death metal vocals, Opeth might be a bit hard to digest.. 


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:45
On the 'making of' part of the "Lamentations" DVD, there's a great sequence where Akerfeldt is bellowing in the vocal booth like a demented thing, then looks over at Steve Wilson with a little grin on his face & asks (almost bashfully) "was that OK, Steve?"

I too, love "Damnation", and am very slowly starting to appreciate their more strident material; I just think it's a shame that Akerfeldt seems (to me, at least) to be wasting his voice with the roaring.

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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:55

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

What has always fascinated me in Opeth's music, is that they combine metal and prog, growls and cleans, hard rocking and mellow, in a quite unique way. And I think Mikael is the right man to sing both growls and cleans, he's the best at both! But if you don't like death metal vocals, Opeth might be a bit hard to digest.. 

Actually they are not hard to digest. I already said that I love their music.  They are technically excellent.  I don't know if you understand me. Right now while I am writing this post I am listening to Blakwater Park.  It is marvellous.  But when I hear those growls it turns me off.  They are, IMO a progless moment.

However I love their 'other songs'.  Just a shame for the growls.



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 03:56

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

On the 'making of' part of the "Lamentations" DVD, there's a great sequence where Akerfeldt is bellowing in the vocal booth like a demented thing, then looks over at Steve Wilson with a little grin on his face & asks (almost bashfully) "was that OK, Steve?"

I too, love "Damnation", and am very slowly starting to appreciate their more strident material; I just think it's a shame that Akerfeldt seems (to me, at least) to be wasting his voice with the roaring.

My point exactly.  Thanks Jim Garten.  It seems you could express me better than I could!  

Cheers



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 04:18
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But when I hear those growls it turns me off. 



Yes I understood that.

Let me explain:
You don't like growls. Opeth has a lot of growls. --> Opeth might be hard to digest since their music has lots of growls.



Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 04:22

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


Yes I understood that.

Let me explain:
You don't like growls. Opeth has a lot of growls. --> Opeth might be hard to digest since their music has lots of growls.

It actually is their MUSIC that I like.  I wouldn't call those growls music, would you?



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 04:24
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

I wouldn't call those growls music, would you?



Growls are an important part in many sorts of metal MUSIC.


Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 04:33

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


Growls are an important part in many sorts of metal MUSIC.

Exactly. Growling is important for metal music. Here we are talking about progressive music.  I am not saying that metal cannot be progressive - Look at Dream Theater for example.  But progressive music is all about the musicians 'showing off' their ability with their instruments.  Opeth are doing precisely that and even Mikael is doing it - but certainly not when he growls.  IMO Opeth are such a great band that they do not need growling to show how different they are from others.  I am not trying to annoy anyone here, just stating how good they are and IMO they are spoiling it with the growls

Cheers



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 06:02

Right now I am listening to Morningrise's 'To Bid You Farewell' and I truly cannot beleive that this is the same band that records those growly stuff.  At least try to understand what I am trying to say - Opeth is an excellent band, only that those 'Death Metal' songs, seem that they do not belong to the same musicians - that's all I am trying to say. I am not saying that they are a sh*tty band, I am saying the complete opposite.

Cheers



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Eemu Ranta
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 06:37
The digesting is a long process when you're coming from classic prog to
Opeth.

Growling is a sophisticated vocal form and very hard to master.
Mikael growls with a great lot of passion, and if you listen to Still Life
along with the lyrics, you will find that the occasional growl perfectly fits
the story and provides the right athmosphere.



Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 06:42

Originally posted by Eemu Ranta Eemu Ranta wrote:

The digesting is a long process when you're coming from classic prog to
Opeth.

Growling is a sophisticated vocal form and very hard to master.
Mikael growls with a great lot of passion, and if you listen to Still Life
along with the lyrics, you will find that the occasional growl perfectly fits
the story and provides the right athmosphere.

Well IMHO his 'normal' vocals are by far much better.  I heard other 'angry' lyrics, being expressed without the growling and being equally effective!



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: henri_ds
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 06:49
It'll grow on you, I'm sure. first I was like, wtf, then I started to love the growling, because it fits perfectly.

Listen to Master's Apprentice : the first part (really heavy and all) is completely apocalyptic, a true moment of brutal mayhem....and right after, it goes into this section, mellow, calm, heavenly beautiful....these kind of moments are what Opeth is all about. Contrast, transition, opposites....If you really can't dig the growling, I'd say Opeth is not for you. Sorry.


Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 06:54

Originally posted by henri_ds henri_ds wrote:

It'll grow on you, I'm sure. first I was like, wtf, then I started to love the growling, because it fits perfectly.

Listen to Master's Apprentice : the first part (really heavy and all) is completely apocalyptic, a true moment of brutal mayhem....and right after, it goes into this section, mellow, calm, heavenly beautiful....these kind of moments are what Opeth is all about. Contrast, transition, opposites....If you really can't dig the growling, I'd say Opeth is not for you. Sorry.

Thanks, I'm doing that right now - Listening to Master's Apprentice.  I'll try to open up!  Good to know that before being into Prog music I was totally into Metal (Although not Death as you may presume!)  But I promise that I will try to like it.  At least I like Opeth's music.  The other Death Metal Bands I used to listen to not even the music attracted me.  So this is already an improvement!

Cheers and Thanks again



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Jim Prog Wizard
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 08:34
You can't call a band "progless" because the vocalist has a particular vocal style which could be considered an acquired taste.  Opeth are a great prog band.  True enough, I myself was a bit put off the first time I heard their heavier material, but I've come to realise that Mike's "growling" is actually extremely well done, and can appreciate it as much as his superb "clean" singing.  Mind you, it probably helps having been into metal before I was into prog.

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"Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003)


Posted By: sortadi
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 10:19
Opeth and Akerfeldt's growling can suck my doberman's cock. Also, it seems that this God (looking at the way people here worship him and suck his balls made me add this word to his "growling" majesty) Akerfeldt hasn't heard any other forms of musical expression to be saying that: "Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003). That's the silliest crap i've ever read in my whole life, and coming from a guy who's adressed here as a "musical" Lord, then i ask myself ths question: Where in satan's hell is that musical acomplishment he has developed?

p.s.: i don't care if i get banned for this reply but seeing so much people like zombies saying "Lord Akerfeldt this", "Lord Akerfeldt that", "Lord Akerfeldt masters the ancient and complex art of metal growling", and so, makes me just sick.

Cheers


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Dream Theater Sucks!!


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 11:25
^^^^  Thank you.  I'm going to have to change the whole attitude of my post now, dick.

*ahem*

I first heard Lord Akerfeldt's music in 1998...  I was just starting my freshman year of highschool, and I stumbled across their first album, Orchid, in a record store.  I liked the cover, and the track times just *screamed* prog.  Listening to it on the way home, night was beginning to fall...  it fit the mood perfectly. I could not believe the wonderful music coming through my headphones...

...and then, suddenly, Lord Akerfeldt began to growl!  OH NOEZ!!111  But never fear...  when the growling transitioned to the most wonderful clean (guitar/vocals both) section...  I fell to my knees in appreciation of Lord Akerfeldt's beautiful music.  I didn't make it home right away...  I walked back to the record store and got Morningrise and My Arms, Your Hearse, and bought the rest of the albums as they were released.

ALL HAIL LORD AKERFELDT!


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Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:00
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


Yes I understood that. Let me explain:You don't like growls. Opeth has a lot of growls. --> Opeth might be hard to digest since their music has lots of growls.


It actually is their MUSIC that I like. I wouldn't call those growls music, would you?



Done properly--yes. This really isn't as easy a thing to do with your voice as you might think...and then to do successful clean vocals right after it? Not easy. It's tough to do in a very controlled manner as he does, and you really start to notice after awhile exactly how carefully he matches what he's doing to the music. It's not very easy to describe, but this does lend a sort of musicality to it. When I was first getting acclimated to their stuff, I didn't feel that way, but definitely came to notice over time.

As for the people who are complaining about it, they always have the option to trade their CDs in, listen to something else, and not constantly inflict their hatred of the genre upon those who do like it. It doesn't mean our tastes are inferior or anything--just different.


Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:03
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Usually growlers are those who cannot sing, whereas Mikael CAN SING!

Cheers

Edge of Sanity and In the Woods, just two name two obvious counterexamples .



Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:07
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

I wouldn't call those growls music, would you?

No less so than sprechgesang, surely?



Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:08
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Usually growlers are those who cannot sing, whereas Mikael CAN SING!

Cheers

Edge of Sanity and In the Woods, just two name two obvious counterexamples .



Are those who can sing, or those who cannot?  I cannot speak of In The Woods, but Edge Of Sanity's Dan Swano is one of the best growlers in the business...  and he's often worked with Mikael Akerfeldt. 

If you've got an Edge Of Sanity album with horrible growling, well..  there was that one time that the rest of the band tried to make an album without Swano, and it blew. 


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Posted By: Prog_Bassist
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:09

I could never get into this band because of the death metal vocals.

 

I heard most of the songs off of the damnation album though, and I have to say, it's excellent, im contemplating buying it. However, all their other stuff is stupid growly death metal crap, I hate death metal siknging. It's got good technical instruments, but nothing to offer with the growling voice.

 

I think that the singer is an excellent singer though, and I mean SINGER, not SCREAMER. The screaming is what ruins it.



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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:11
It's really sad when so many people who pledge allegiance to a genre called "progressive" can't handle it when a band tries to truly progress...

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Posted By: Keke
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:29

Opeth is special exactly because they can blend ''The vocals!'' and Blackmetal growling so finely and perfectly. Listen to them some more, and you'll see, you'll start liking even the growling.

Opeth is a band that makes black metal haters become black metal lovers... or at least Opeth lovers!

 

''Master's apprentices'' is a great example of how growling is actually really nice.



Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:40
I agree with the above statement, except the growls haven't been blackmetal-ish since Morningrise.  

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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:42

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:



Are those who can sing, or those who cannot?  I cannot speak of In The Woods, but Edge Of Sanity's Dan Swano is one of the best growlers in the business...  and he's often worked with Mikael Akerfeldt. 

If you've got an Edge Of Sanity album with horrible growling, well..  there was that one time that the rest of the band tried to make an album without Swano, and it blew. 

They were bands who can sing - I've heard the EoS without Swano (weren't there a couple) and you're totally right. When Swano's with them though, I'd pick them over Opeth any day.

 

To whoever made the last post (at the time I'm writing, anyway...) I'm pretty sure Opeth moved away from black metal after two or three albums - Blackwater Park, certainly, is far more in a death metal vein.



Posted By: 46and2
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 14:03
As most of us agree mikael is one of the best vocalists in music today.  He has the most versatile voice. A beautiful melodic voice and an amazing brutal death metal growl, the best in my opinion.  He says that he is a novice vocalist but i guess that's modesty for you.

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Posted By: Entropia
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 14:58
Opeth are awesome....i used to hate the growling but try to imagine opeth's heaviest songs without growling.


Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 15:03
opeth's dilemma: break the CD with a hammer or just roll on it with your car?

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Hifi        Last hifi upgrade: rhodium power sockets


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 15:51
That's nice.

Why is it everybody has to completely flame the bands and albums they can't stand?


Posted By: Raymon7174
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 16:30

I too have recently purchased "Damnation". I love it. I first heard Akerfeld on Ayreon's Human Equation and saw him on the dvd. That sparked my interest and I eventually bought "Damnation" based on the reviews on this site. Though I love it, it is a bit softer than I expected.

I like heavy music and have been debating trying some more Opeth but I have been hesitant b/c of the "death metal" label that has been placed on Opeth. I frankly don't know much about it (meaning death metal). I like progressive metal such as Ayreon, Porcupine Tree (not always that heavy) and Dream Theater, and Metallica arguably some of which is progressive. I also have historically enjoyed heavy music, Hendrix, Zeppellin, Black Sabbath, and on and on. I have mellowed somewhat but still enjoy heavy music and heavy progressive rock, but I like interesting music, not plain and simple thrashing and head-banging. I don't think I would find any run-of-the-mill head-banging music in any of Opeth's offerings, but I am leary of this "death metal" thing. What does that mean other than some growls, which I don't find that offensive, but have not really heard much of it.

Where do I go from here with Opeth? From the reviews it seems that "Still Life" would be a good next choice for me w/o getting too much into "death metal", whatever that really means. I think I would like Blackwater Park, but I am a bit leary.

Thoughts?



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Raymon


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 16:39
For Opeth, anyway, you should expect the lyrics to take on a darker (though not obscene) tone, and if you have heard Mikael growl on The Human Equation, you should expect to hear that a good bit more.

Still Life may well be the best place for you to start, because it'll go 50-50 between the harder and softer stuff. You should find the particular riffs interesting, not your standard three chords. Do be aware that the theme of Still Life deals with somebody who is being persecuted by religious leaders and he and his love are eventually executed--still, I wouldn't call it anti-religious, especially when you notice the virtues that the narrator shows in his own dealings (well, until he goes insane, but anyway... ).

If you like, you can read the lyrics to any Opeth album here: http://www.darklyrics.com/o/opeth.html

Hope this helps a bit! BTW, Blackwater Park is also a very cool album. Some say it's the one to start with, though I think Still Life would be good for that, too.


Posted By: Raymon7174
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 16:51
Thanks. Your comments are helpful.

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Raymon


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 18:19

Originally posted by Entropia Entropia wrote:

Opeth are awesome....i used to hate the growling but try to imagine opeth's heaviest songs without growling.

That would not sound very good. Guys, it takes a lot of time to shift from light melodic Prog rock to heavier Progressive bands like Opeth, Green Carnation and Evergrey, but afterwards, you get used to it.



Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 18:28

I think it is wonderfully eccentric to hear "growling" defended as an "art form"LOLDead

Does anyone here recall the story of The Emperor's New Clothes????Wink

Tie a pretty ribbon on a turd and it's still basically sh*t in an unconvincing disguise.Confused

 



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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 18:56
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

I think it is wonderfully eccentric to hear "growling" defended as an "art form"LOLDead

Growling is definitely an "art form", but unfortunately it is cherished too much in the ridiculous Death Metal scene and criticized in the Prog Rock/Metal scene. I see some growls to be quite good and necessary like Mikael's vocals on "Day Twelve: Trauma" on The Human Equation. Some just suck like anything Mr. Crybaby Chris Barnes has done.



Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 19:15
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

it is cherished too much in the ridiculous Death Metal scene and criticized in the Prog Rock/Metal scene.



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.


Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 19:58
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

it is cherished too much in the ridiculous Death Metal scene and criticized in the Prog Rock/Metal scene.



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.

So you dont think an adult barking down a microphone to music is ridiculous.Ermm

Stupid is as stupid does....Stern Smile



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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 20:25

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.

The scene is absolutely ridiculous you know why? Because I feel that in some bands like Obituary and Deicide, the growls are abused heavily. I know this because I have once owned their albums and I can tell you that its just absolutely f**king ridiculous. The people in the scene is also why. If you haven't payed attention before, during and after the concerts.



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 06 2005 at 22:26
So somehow, because SOME bands are ridiculous, ALL that use similar techniques deserve to be painted with the same brush? I don't think that's right.


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:03
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.

The scene is absolutely ridiculous you know why? Because I feel that in some bands like Obituary and Deicide, the growls are abused heavily. I know this because I have once owned their albums and I can tell you that its just absolutely f**king ridiculous. The people in the scene is also why. If you haven't payed attention before, during and after the concerts.



Abused? What do you want them to do? Sing in falsetto? Abused... that's like saying prog vocalists abuse melody...

Death metal is more than vocals. That stuff going on in the background is also a major component.




Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:04
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

it is cherished too much in the ridiculous Death Metal scene and criticized in the Prog Rock/Metal scene.



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.

So you dont think an adult barking down a microphone to music is ridiculous.Ermm

Stupid is as stupid does....Stern Smile



That's so close minded, I won't even point out how unbelieveably stupid that post was.


Posted By: Entropia
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:36
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Entropia Entropia wrote:

Opeth are awesome....i used to hate the growling but try to imagine opeth's heaviest songs without growling.

That would not sound very good.

 

that's what i was saying



Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 01:07
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Entropia Entropia wrote:

Opeth are awesome....i used to hate the growling but try to imagine opeth's heaviest songs without growling.

That would not sound very good.

That was my point right from the beginning.  I was just expressing how I like the music and dislike the growling. Just expressing an opinion on a forum that's it. I think I have that right, no?

Cheers



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"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 03:32
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

it is cherished too much in the ridiculous Death Metal scene and criticized in the Prog Rock/Metal scene.



"Cherished"? It's a mainstay. It's a required element.

Tell me why the scene is rediculous. Unless you can back up your absurd claims, don't say stupid things.

So you dont think an adult barking down a microphone to music is ridiculous.Ermm

Stupid is as stupid does....Stern Smile



That's so close minded, I won't even point out how unbelieveably stupid that post was.

You are a teenager right?

I wont even point out how peer pressure affects your tastes,sheepboy!Wink



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Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 05:23
Hi everyone!
I am new to this forum ( if that is of any interest).
Anyway, regarding the opeth issue, I am sure most of you will agree that is progressive enough to be mentioned in this site. However I can totally understand how the vocals can be irritating for some  but that is just an issue of aquired taste. I percieve the vocals as a way to express emotions ( isn't this what music is all about?) and as such I feel that if an artist wants to express feelings of complete and utter rage or gloom or darkness etc, the growls are an ideal way. If those are the kind of feelings you don't mind experiencing when listening to music, then I don't see why growls can hurt you. Don't  get me wrong, i'd rather be listening to good ol' prog rock over death metal, but it doesn't fell right to discard such a prolific band as utter rubish.


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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 09:53
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

You are a teenager right?

I wont even point out how peer pressure affects your tastes,sheepboy!Wink

 Are you under the impression that death metal is a hip part of teenage culture? At college I've seen maybe three people with any sort of extreme metal clothing on, and maybe a few more power metal, and they're all geeks!

No one seems to have any answer to my point about sprechgesang, but I'd like to reinforce it in that plenty of 19th and 20th century operas have tortured screams in at relevenant parts of the story. Granted it isn't all the way through, but nor is Opeth's growling . In fact "Forgotten Sons" by Marillion has Fish shouting "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGHHHHH-MEN!", does it not?



Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 09:54

Originally posted by Valarius Valarius wrote:

Why is it everybody has to completely flame the bands and albums they can't stand?

Hey come on, at least that one was funny



Posted By: Warren
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 10:41
I bought Blackwater Park a long time ago and just didn't get it at all so took it back to the record shop and exchanged it. I'm starting to think that maybe I should get myself another copy now, though, as Damnation seemed like a bit of a let down (the "lighter" songs not being as majestic as many of their predecessors). I'm also starting to think that with my hi-fi as it is now, the "loud bits" of the previous albums wont sound as boomy and abrasive. As for growling, I've got used to screaming, and at least Opeth seems to do it well. An acquired taste, though, indeed. 


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 11:56
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

You are a teenager right?

I wont even point out how peer pressure affects your tastes,sheepboy!Wink



What with all the baseless attacks and abuse of smilies, I'd say I'm the one who's more mature here.

I don't limit myself to one genre. I just happen to know quite a bit about Death Metal and it irks me when I see someone misunderstand it. Plus, Opeth is barely Death Metal.


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 12:00
Originally posted by Warren Warren wrote:

I bought Blackwater Park a long time ago and just didn't get it at all so took it back to the record shop and exchanged it. I'm starting to think that maybe I should get myself another copy now, though, as Damnation seemed like a bit of a let down (the "lighter" songs not being as majestic as many of their predecessors). I'm also starting to think that with my hi-fi as it is now, the "loud bits" of the previous albums wont sound as boomy and abrasive. As for growling, I've got used to screaming, and at least Opeth seems to do it well. An acquired taste, though, indeed. 


A common mistake is that people rush to the last three albums, meanwhile, the earliermaterial is much less formulaic and have some unbelievable passages. Still Life is most like their later stuff, but is executed amazingly. It's their best album. If you feel down for the challenge, you should check out the first two albums, Orchid and Morningrise. They're some great works, but you have to look past a lot of lulls and some awkward moments due to the band still trying to figure out exactly what they were doing.


Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 12:10
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

You are a teenager right?

I wont even point out how peer pressure affects your tastes,sheepboy!Wink



What with all the baseless attacks and abuse of smilies, I'd say I'm the one who's more mature here.

I don't limit myself to one genre. I just happen to know quite a bit about Death Metal and it irks me when I see someone misunderstand it. Plus, Opeth is barely Death Metal.

If that's your idea of an "attack" I reckon you should get out a bit more!Wink

What's there to "understand" about death metal? Enlighten me please.Big smile

Just for the record I own Blackwater Park and Damnation.

I grew up with Motorhead,Sabbath et al and saw them all live regularly in the 70's,so I understand "metal"......



-------------





Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 12:45
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But the vocals!



Yes, the vocals are great and Mikael is the best Death metal singer the world has ever seen. Is there a problem here?

I like the goblin dude from cradle of filth better



Posted By: Entropia
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 13:30
Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But the vocals!



Yes, the vocals are great and Mikael is the best Death metal singer the world has ever seen. Is there a problem here?

I like the goblin dude from cradle of filth better

LOL



Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 14:05
Originally posted by Entropia Entropia wrote:

Originally posted by Hangedman Hangedman wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

But the vocals!



Yes, the vocals are great and Mikael is the best Death metal singer the world has ever seen. Is there a problem here?

I like the goblin dude from cradle of filth better

LOL

Ok, ok, I have to say Mikael is DEFINITELY a Death Metal vocalist. Ever heard his other, even more noisy (former) band BLOODBATH? Now if he is not a Death metal vocalist, I might as well say I'm dead.



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 07 2005 at 20:26
Originally posted by Raymon7174 Raymon7174 wrote:

Thanks. Your comments are helpful.


BTW, you're welcome...I missed your thanks in the middle of all the inanity.


Posted By: lalala
Date Posted: May 14 2005 at 09:56

dont listen to her... i dont like opeth all that much but my sister loves them so im familiar. i have to say still life is awful though. soooo cheesy. akerfeldt tries being all moralistic... forgiveness, love, respect of religion, blah blah blah. and its worse because he cant write lyrics worth beans. although i cut him slack because english is his second language. still, that album is too fluffy and goody two shoes. ok so not learning to forgive and to maintain a relationship with god means insanity? riiight.

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.



Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: May 14 2005 at 10:09
That's what makes Opeth so good, though. They're all about the contrast between the heavy growling and soft, beautiful singing. If Mikael Akerfeldt can pull off both in a single song, then I say more power to him. I love the way they can go from the most brutal-sounding stuff in prog to quiet, melodic, beautiful pieces. I guess I have an advantage here, because I listened to metal before I listened to prog so I'm used to the heaviness, but you should just give it a chance - stop trying to define what is "prog" and what isn't, and you'll enjoy it.


Posted By: Geee
Date Posted: May 14 2005 at 10:29

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

That's what makes Opeth so good, though. They're all about the contrast between the heavy growling and soft, beautiful singing. If Mikael Akerfeldt can pull off both in a single song, then I say more power to him. I love the way they can go from the most brutal-sounding stuff in prog to quiet, melodic, beautiful pieces. I guess I have an advantage here, because I listened to metal before I listened to prog so I'm used to the heaviness, but you should just give it a chance - stop trying to define what is "prog" and what isn't, and you'll enjoy it.

Actually, if you read my earlier posts, I was over the trying to define if they are prog or not.  The fact that I started this thread was exactly for this reason.  I fell in love with the music so much that the growls sort of disappointed me.  IMO a band that is this good (technically - particularly the vocalist - during his 'normal' parts) can express gloom, anger or what not in a different way.  However good to say that from the time I started this thread to now, the growls are not bothering me that much.  Obviously the reason being that i totally fell in love with their music! Awesome.  However I will be more than glad for another release in the steps of Damnation - although the band already announced that the next release will the their most brutal one to date!!

Cheers



-------------
"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 14 2005 at 22:31
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

dont listen to her... i dont like opeth all that much but my sister loves them so im familiar. i have to say still life is awful though. soooo cheesy. akerfeldt tries being all moralistic... forgiveness, love, respect of religion, blah blah blah. and its worse because he cant write lyrics worth beans. although i cut him slack because english is his second language. still, that album is too fluffy and goody two shoes. ok so not learning to forgive and to maintain a relationship with god means insanity? riiight.


i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.



I think the album works fine. It's not my favorite Opeth album...My Arms, Your Hearse and Damnation are my two favorites, but I don't think there's anything particularly awful about the lyrics. By the way, I should mention that the narrator's insanity comes from seeing his girlfriend (fiancee? wife?) mistreated by the society around him and eventually executed. I should think that would be rough on anybody's psyche.

And what, precisely, is wrong with learning to forgive and to maintain a relationship with God?


Posted By: lalala
Date Posted: May 15 2005 at 10:59

theres nothing wrong with that but its just cornball to make an album about that, esp. a rock album. i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach. "this is forgiveness, so I know once I repent I seal the lid." *gag*

plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it too... face of melinda in particular.

and i still stand by my statement that i think even those who can tolerate death vocals cant by any means actually ENJOY them. listen to serenity painted death, that chorus... white face, haggard grin or whateva it says... yeesh.



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 15 2005 at 23:33
I'm not sure the character of the story is actually doing any repenting or forgiving at that particular moment, considering he follows that very line with the words "I find trust in hate". I don't think he's telling people to convert or anything. Notice that nowhere in there does he say what others should do...just what this one character intends to do (though, in human fashion, there are other darker things mixed in).

And it IS possible to enjoy death-vocals, not just tolerate them, if they are done WELL. I can attest to that because I genuinely do.


Posted By: Eemu Ranta
Date Posted: May 16 2005 at 02:21
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith
anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that
he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach.


plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it
too... face of melinda in particular.




What?? Have you actually read the lyrics? That album is actually
heavily against fundamentalism, and about its non-tolerance of other
beliefs. If anything, Mikael is an atheist. I'll provide you with examples to
prove this point when I have more time.

Mikael is a talented lyricist, although his abilities lie more in "story telling"
than "poetry". Still Life is among my favourite concept albums, and my
next favourite Opeth album after 'Morningrise'



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:17
I agree about it being anti-fundamentalist, while at the same time respecting the values that go with a more levelheaded practice of religion.

I'm not sure about him being a complete atheist...I got the feeling he does believe in some kind of force or existence beyond our senses, but perhaps in a more Taoist way. Not sure, though.


Posted By: Keke
Date Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:45

It is quite awkward to question Opeth's progressivity...

I know, now all of you ''hardcore'' proggers will say, ''Oh, shut up, that's barely music...''

Yeah, that's probably what the parents of the teenagers who bought In the Court of the Crimson King said... ( Besides what they had to say about the album cover, anyway! )

 

( I'm not comparing the two, but still, you get the idea. )



Posted By: Henkka
Date Posted: May 16 2005 at 16:42
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

Wrong.

I understand why you might have something against growling, I hate most of it myself. Mostly the type you can hear in, for example, Children of Bodom, which is at least in my opinion awful. The growling in bands like that is petty, high-pitched, almost like barking! But now, when Mike of Opeth does it.. heh, at least he does it like a man. :)

I started with the album Blackwater Park and at that time I strongly disliked growling. Hell, I disliked all of metal even. Opeth was the band to change that for me. Long story short, I not only tolerate the growling now but I LOVE it. Seriously, some of his growling just sends shivers down my spine. And no, I do not consider myself a metalhead more so than a prog fan.

After I started liking Opeth, I got a lot more open-minded when it comes to metal music, but I still haven't found anyone whose growls kick my ass more than Mikael's. If anyone has any recommendations on awesome growlers, let me know. :)

Oh, and I also disagree with you about Mike's lyrics. But meh, we're all entitled to our opinion.



Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 16 2005 at 18:05
Originally posted by Henkka Henkka wrote:

[QUOTE=lalala]

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

You need to know the awesome power of powerful low, deep growls at parts when its not abused heavily. As in Day 12: Trauma, Mikael lets out, "I wish you were dead" or something like that, it really gets the point done, but when a lil' baby called Chris Barnes lets out low grunts about butchering babies, then yes its taken too far. Growling can be good, but most of the time, I think its annoying especially with all the "abuse" it has been received.



Posted By: Henkka
Date Posted: May 17 2005 at 00:39
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Henkka Henkka wrote:

[QUOTE=lalala]

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

You need to know the awesome power of powerful low, deep growls at parts when its not abused heavily. As in Day 12: Trauma, Mikael lets out, "I wish you were dead" or something like that, it really gets the point done, but when a lil' baby called Chris Barnes lets out low grunts about butchering babies, then yes its taken too far. Growling can be good, but most of the time, I think its annoying especially with all the "abuse" it has been received.

Actually..

Then you hear his voice, cold and merciless

"You worthless fool, you let her die"

Also,

Your ways can not be justified.



Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 17 2005 at 20:04
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Just for the record I own Blackwater Park and Damnation.

I grew up with Motorhead,Sabbath et al and saw them all live regularly in the 70's,so I understand "metal"......



BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.

Motorhead AND Sabbath?! I should back off right now...this guy knows his metal... Check back with me when you know more than 2 bands. Those 2 lost touch very early on. Since their decline, metal has seen countless developments and numerous sub-genres. You don't understand a damn thing about metal.


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 17 2005 at 20:22
Then what do you think are their best albums??


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 17 2005 at 23:19
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Then what do you think are their best albums??


Still Life is their most balanced release. It combines their older style where they wandered around a lot, but were more adventurous with a bit more structure and formula (they use a TON of barre chords). After Still Life, the other two essential albums are the first two; Morninrise being a tad better by virtue of them figuring themselves out a bit.

The last three albums are just excersises in tedium, with riffs that are seemingly recycled from Still Life. Damnation was an excuse to put out an album that would please a lot of people. I can find a dozen better soft moment from within their older material, no doubt.


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 11:41
Still Life was pretty good, yes...probably my 3rd favorite or so.

As for Morningrise, I find it hard to listen to too often in part because of the mixing, and in part because I think "Black Rose Immortal" was poorly put together. There were many good moments in it...but by no means was it actually a full song that could sustain itself at that length. Still, the improvement between it and Orchid was pretty incredible.


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 17:39

Yea, Orchid for me was just a very average album. It was too Black Metal for me and Mikael's voice was definitely not evolved at that moment. His voice greatly improves on Morningrise and in fact I am very impressed with the song, Black Rose Immortal, however songs on Blackwater Park, I believe, are the pinnacal of Opeth. Amazing variation from light as a lullaby to as heavy and brutal as Doom/Death Metal gets. Really impressive.

The riffs ARE NOT recycled in Blackwater Park. If you consider Death Metal riffs to be recycled, then go listen to some Deicide  and tell me if Opeth's riffs are recycled or not.



Posted By: iscariot
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 17:56
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.


-------------
matters of taste are not open to critique


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:00
Iscariot, if you put Deliverance and Damnation together, they make one variant and amazing double album. When I listen to Deliverance or Damnation, I must listen to the other one right afterwards.


Posted By: WillieThePimp
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:06

The lyrics can be mediocre sometimes, but the way he sets the mood and presents those lyrics makes it all better ex.) The phrase "Eerie circles above the water." in Amen Corner. I always thought My Arms Your Hearse had better lyrics.

Opeth was actually supposed to be an instrumental band also, but someone told Mike he had a beautiful voice and i'm glad he continues to sing. They seem to be progressing quite well with each album so maybe his lyrics continue to get better.




-------------
You can't possibly hear the last movement of Beethoven's Seventh and go slow. ~Oscar Levant, explaining his way out of a speeding ticket


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:08
Actually, Mikael's lyrics are some of the best in METAL, at least. There are just not many Metal bands these days that can write lyrics (well before even worse) and Opeth is one of the few that can write stunningly awesome lyrics :)


Posted By: iscariot
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:09
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Iscariot, if you put Deliverance and Damnation together, they make one variant and amazing double album. When I listen to Deliverance or Damnation, I must listen to the other one right afterwards.


right, that was the intention as i understand it. although i often find myself more drawn to damnation and usually my momentary interests are secularized either to heavy or soft music, so i dont think ive actually ever really sat down with both, one after another.

i have found however that damnation (in particular tracks like 'to rid the disease') fit quite nicely into a playlist with sigur ros and other melancholy music. a beer or two doesnt hurt milk the emotion either.


-------------
matters of taste are not open to critique


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:18
Originally posted by iscariot iscariot wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.


You may not believe it, but I can tell you that with the straightest face possible. When you listen to a fair amount of metal, those 3 albums are pretty formulaic. Their older material is so much more original.

Differant strokes.
 


Posted By: WillieThePimp
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:18
Somewhat off-topic alert! OH NOZ

Harvest has something captivating in it. I disliked the how the lyrics "stay with me a while" were sung, but the first (pardon my lack of musical theory) 30 seconds contain some of the most beautiful  guitar work (especially from Lindgren).


-------------
You can't possibly hear the last movement of Beethoven's Seventh and go slow. ~Oscar Levant, explaining his way out of a speeding ticket


Posted By: iscariot
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:30
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by iscariot iscariot wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.


You may not believe it, but I can tell you that with the straightest face possible. When you listen to a fair amount of metal, those 3 albums are pretty formulaic. Their older material is so much more original.

Differant strokes.
 


im by no means an expert in any genre, but i wouldnt call it formulaic. i would agree with you if you mean to say that riffs are often repeated, seemingly, more than is necessary, i often end up finding this repetition engrossing and totally acceptable given the natural groove of the music. there is after all so much more at stake in music than just melody, difficulty, rhythm... etc. the combination of all of these things makes it not formulaic, but controlled.

if you mean to say that the music is somehow rehashed from their other work, or other artists, id beg to differ, but im afraid that without example on that matter id have to call a stalemate at opinion; as you say, different strokes.


-------------
matters of taste are not open to critique


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 18 2005 at 23:28
Ironically, my two favorite albums are just about as opposite in production and style as you can get: MAYH and Damnation.

I actually think MAYH had some of his best lyrics, perhaps because he wrote them in sentence form in Swedish, then translated. Dunno, but that may be why. And the whole concept is just a powerful idea.

As for Orchid...I try not to rag on people's English skills, but that WAS a problem. Especially on "Apostle in Triumph". The end of that song...OUCH OUCH OUCH!   


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 19 2005 at 01:48
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Ironically, my two favorite albums are just about as opposite in production and style as you can get: MAYH and Damnation.

I actually think MAYH had some of his best lyrics, perhaps because he wrote them in sentence form in Swedish, then translated. Dunno, but that may be why. And the whole concept is just a powerful idea.

As for Orchid...I try not to rag on people's English skills, but that WAS a problem. Especially on "Apostle in Triumph". The end of that song...OUCH OUCH OUCH!   


Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's really the band at their most adventurous.


Posted By: erlenst
Date Posted: May 19 2005 at 05:14
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

theres nothing wrong with that but its just cornball to make an album about that, esp. a rock album. i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach. "this is forgiveness, so I know once I repent I seal the lid." *gag*


plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it too... face of melinda in particular.


and i still stand by my statement that i think even those who can tolerate death vocals cant by any means actually ENJOY them. listen to serenity painted death, that chorus... white face, haggard grin or whateva it says... yeesh.



Hmm.. I haven't really interpreted the lyrics myself, but judging from lyrics from Åkerfeldts previous band, Bloodbath, I doubt he's very religious. (They have a song named Bastard son of God, for example)


Posted By: Starwind
Date Posted: May 19 2005 at 10:28

I like Opeth's lyrics. As for the growling, you get used to it after a while.

My Arms, Your Hearse, Still Life, and Damnation are my favorites.



Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: May 19 2005 at 11:47
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate
themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over
the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most
pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they
were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's
really the band at their most adventurous.


It's not that the album hasn't got its good points...it really does. But I do tend to be a stickler for flow and sound quality, so I can't give the same ratings that I do to some of their later works.


Posted By: Abbath
Date Posted: May 19 2005 at 12:26
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate
themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over
the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most
pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they
were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's
really the band at their most adventurous.


It's not that the album hasn't got its good points...it really does. But I do tend to be a stickler for flow and sound quality, so I can't give the same ratings that I do to some of their later works.


I suppose that in the end, which Opeth era is prefered depends entirely on the listener.
 


Posted By: Possessed
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 00:59
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Hi Guys and Girls

I seem to have a problem with Opeth.  The first album that I ever heard of theirs was Damnation - Simply awesome prog album.  I didn't know who they were before this album.  Since I liked this album I made it a point that I get hold of the whole discography.  What a shock!  Almost all of their albums are Death Metal.  My dilemma is how can a band that releases such marvelous album like Damnation, release Death Metal Music?

Cheers

PS Having said that I still have to say that even their Death Metal releases, musically are very technical, and I don't know how this will sound, and 'progressive'. But the vocals!

It will take some time to get used to, but afterwards you'll appreciate the harsher vocals.



Posted By: SheriffJB
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 01:03
Actually,

Opeth were a "death metal" band long before they released Damnation. Damnation was almost a "break" for fans that weren't into the growls, IMO.

I have a special place in my ear for Damnation, but musically Deliverance impressed me far more.

I'd say Blackwater Park beats them both down though.


-------------
Tom MacMillan
Sacramento, CA




Posted By: bogdan.
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 05:31
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


Growls are an important part in many sorts of metal MUSIC.

Exactly. Growling is important for metal music. Here we are talking about progressive music.  I am not saying that metal cannot be progressive - Look at Dream Theater for example.  But progressive music is all about the musicians 'showing off' their ability with their instruments.  Opeth are doing precisely that and even Mikael is doing it - but certainly not when he growls.  IMO Opeth are such a great band that they do not need growling to show how different they are from others.  I am not trying to annoy anyone here, just stating how good they are and IMO they are spoiling it with the growls

Cheers


That is not true. Progressive music is not about the musicians 'showing off' their ability, but the structure of music. Remember that.

And why is Opeth prog, read in their biography on this site

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=1122 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAN D.asp?band_id=1122.


-------------
GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,   
   Old Time is still a-flying:   
And this same flower that smiles to-day   
   To-morrow will be dying.

Carpe Diem!


Posted By: goose
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 06:11
I didn't hear Roger Waters 'showing off' much with his bass playing, anyway


Posted By: DavidInsabella
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 10:47
Originally posted by Jim Prog Wizard Jim Prog Wizard wrote:

You can't call a band "progless" because the vocalist has a particular vocal style which could be considered an acquired taste.  Opeth are a great prog band.  True enough, I myself was a bit put off the first time I heard their heavier material, but I've come to realise that Mike's "growling" is actually extremely well done, and can appreciate it as much as his superb "clean" singing.  Mind you, it probably helps having been into metal before I was into prog.
Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

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Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be.


Posted By: colin007
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:08

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.



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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.
All this pain is an illusion.


Posted By: DavidInsabella
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:48
Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...

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Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be.


Posted By: FloydWright
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:58
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

I didn't hear Roger Waters 'showing off' much with his bass playing, anyway


Gilmour and his guitar, however...


Posted By: colin007
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 12:14
Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...

get damnation and go from there.  there are a lot of floydian styles and influences, as well as porcupine tree.  so theres the prog, and there are no harsh vocals on that CD.



-------------
This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.
All this pain is an illusion.


Posted By: DavidInsabella
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 10:35
Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...

get damnation and go from there.  there are a lot of floydian styles and influences, as well as porcupine tree.  so theres the prog, and there are no harsh vocals on that CD.

Alright, I'll give it a try.

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Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be.



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