Encores: An Extinct Idea
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Topic: Encores: An Extinct Idea
Posted By: ~Rael~
Subject: Encores: An Extinct Idea
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:23
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I go to a good amount of concerts, almost all of which are with my father, who is in his 50s. These concerts are all kinds, ranging from jazz, to 70s prog (Yes, Kansas), and pretty heavy metal (Opeth, Mudvayne, Lamb of God), and almost every concert he comments on how people just don't cheer for an encores anymore. That Mars Volta concert was the latest example. After the band walked off, people cheered for a little bit, but then people quit. My dad always gets angry, wanting people to cheer and stay. It never happens. He always reminesces about the old days, when people would stay and cheer for twenty, maybe even thirty minutes until the band would come back out. Now it never happens. What do you guys think? Does the encore exist anywhere anymore? ------------- I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress . . . |
Replies:
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:26
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People simply do not have the time to cheer for an encore these days. They must hurry home to download the torrent for the latest Porcupine Tree album. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:26
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Deep Purple is a prime example, that encores still exist. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:30
| I have been to quite a few concerts lately, and there have always been encores. In Judas Priest's case, there were three of them, just like when we saw PFM at NEARFest. Perhaps it is more of a trend for newer bands to skip encores altogether... In my own experience, encores have always been the rule, rather than the exception. |
Posted By: ~Rael~
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:33
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Okay, but I'm not talking about intermissions. I've been to plenty of concerts where the band walks off for a break and comes back out to play, because it was planned all along. I'm talking about when a band is done, the lights come on, and people cheer until the band comes back; basically, it is not planned. I'm sure true encores occur a lot more with concerts of older bands. ------------- I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress . . . |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:35
Or go to their local CD store which is already selling it!  I don't think genuine encores are common anymore, but planned encores seem the hot-topic at the few small concerts I attend... ------------- 
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Epignosis wrote:Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:37
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I've never been to a concert without an encore. Weird. In fact, I thought the thread was going to be about how encores are planned into the program... |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:38
When I saw Yes w/ Asia they did an awesome version of Starship Trooper as their encore. Not all bands are like that. The Mars Volta are just (if truth be told) a horrible live band
-------------  Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:40
SCABDATES is the perfect evidence of that  -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:43
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I've noticed that too - I can remember calling bands back on stage until they'd run out of songs to play on several occasions (Pink Floyd @ Wembley). Other times I've been present when bands have had 20 minute standing ovations (Enid @ Hammersmith Odeon).
The planned (or staged) encore was part of the set-lists for gigs for many years, but I think everyone knew it was pretending to end for applause - maybe now a days theyare just being honest. In London at least I think the 11 o'clock curfew set by the last Tube train back to civilisation has put a stop to unplanned encores.
"My but you're heaven but I never do encores, I think it's pretentious, pretending to end for applause" - Time To Dream (Greenslade) ------------- What? |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:44
There have been encores at pretty much every concert i've been to, except for festival concerts  The most awesome encore i've seen/heard was when Zappa plays Zappa played "Willie the Pimp" right after "Bobby Brown". Damn, that song rocked my socks off!  |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:48
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Every time I go to see Runrig, the crowd shout pretty long and loud till the band come back. If they didn't come back at least twice, there'd be a riot. Also, Mostly Autumn always get cheered long and loud.] Maybe it's just that they're amazing live bands, unlike say The Mars Volta. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 17:55
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by the mid-80s it seemed the encore had become de rigueur, usually built into a band's set list as a part of the show..lost some of the spontaneity but everyone expected at least two substantial encores |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 18:06
Yeah I saw the same tour and they played Starship Trooper at the end, pretty awesome, but they never played Close to the Edge.
 Ah well. |
Posted By: paulwalker71
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 18:29
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Well, I've been going to concerts for many years and I don't ever remember having to cheer for anything like 20 minutes to get a band back on The first encore is usually something that happens pretty well automatically. Sometimes the band hardly even bother to go off stage! Admitedly the second encore usually needs a bit more audience effort...but not 20-30 minutes... |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 19:31
| For the encore idea to work properly bands have to snub some audiences that don't cheer loud enough... |
Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 21:37
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Encores That I have seen: Rush ISIS Mastodon Porcupine Tree The Encore still exists today.........and The Mars Volta are a amazing live band, I dont know what the hell you people are talking about!  |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 21:58
| Just about every rock concert I've attended has had encores (as well as every live album or DVD), I've always hade the idea that people just take encores for granted, and that the bands do actually have their encores planned as part of the concert. The only concert I've attended without an encore was Rick Wakeman 6 wive concert this year. And the only live album I know about that has no encore is Pink Floyd's The Wall. |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 22:11
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What he is referring to I believe the idea is different than it used to be... now its more like an obligatory intermission instead of a "true" encore.. in the past the bands used to HAVE to come back out because the crowds would not disperse until they did... Was a different thing than it is today..
Guess the closest thing today would be a "double" encore .. If the band comes out a second time, I would think this would be closer to the old days..
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 22:39
| I guess then, that "true" encores were lost because fans start asking for the band to come back, and the band comes back, then the fans start to expect the band to come back, then the band has no option but to come back, and then, since the band knows before the concert that the fans will ask them to come back, and that they will come back, well, they rather plan the encore. |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 22:50
| Saw one band, say, ok, pretend we left and we came back. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 23:38
| Went to see Steve Hacket in 2004 and the crowd gave him 3 encores. I somehow picture a band like Jethro Tull doing well in this area. even today |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 01:14
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Perhaps the days of the forced encores are over. There was a time when Yes would milk it for all it was worth before playing Roundabout, and Lynyrd Skynyrd WAY back when would make the fans yell like idiots for 20 minutes before returning for Freebird. The most encores I ever saw was a classical concert - Andres Segovia was pulled back on stage five times. No, we hadn't had enough of him even after that, but he was getting on in years, and we decided to respect his age and let him go. When I've seen them, both Tull and Yes had planned encores. Pink Floyd too. Haven't been to that kind of concert in a long time, though. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 02:01
Yes. And when the fans get used to the planned encore they might expect it to happen even if they don't actually ask for it. At least here in Finland people still clap and yell for encores (and not counting outdoor festival gigs with strict time limits I can't remember a time when the headliner had left without an encore) but according to some musician interview I read, might have been some Metallica guy, Japan is notorious for people sitting silently in the dark concert hall after the last number taking it for granted that the band comes out again. I loved the story by BaldFriede I think, where Peter Hammill after god knows how many encores came back one last time with a towel around his neck, while the crew was already clearing the stage, and sang one final song without a backing band or a microphone. I wish there was more of that around, but when the house lights come back and the crew hits the stage, everyone knows it's over and leaves. Chuck Berry I hear has his own special policy when it comes to encores. Pay him 5000 bucks extra and you get one more song. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: paulwalker71
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 03:20
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Another factor to consider is venue curfews. If there's a strict curfew, say 10 pm, then the band aren't going to do encores no matter how much people scream and holler. I suspect this is a factor in at least some instances, as curfews due to the local council regulations etc, are sadly more prevalent than they used to be |
Posted By: Anthony
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 06:57
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As you can hear on the "Instant Delivery" CD/DVD from The Flower Kings, the encore of "Stardust we are" was 'sort of not planned'.
------------- Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love (Introitus - The hand that feeds you) |
Posted By: June
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 07:21
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For the encore idea to work properly bands have to snub some audiences that don't cheer loud enough...
Agreed.
I don't think I've ever been to a concert that didn't have any encores either, although, this summer in Montreal, I'm pretty sure VdGG wanted to do more encores, but they could not because the jazz festival had scheduled another show in the same venue 10-15 minutes later (dumb jazz festival
 ).Last year, I saw Clapton, and was quite surprised to hear some people booing when he did only one encore
 And my best gig ever is still Mr Leonard Cohen who did 7 encores at the ripe old age of 74 last year
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Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 08:34
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Guns N' Roses was of course known for cancelling shows, starting very late or stopping the show after a couple of songs if someone in the audience happened to wear a wrong kind of a shirt or something, but when they were having a good time they didn't want to leave the stage at all. One show in LA in 1991 lasted for over three and a half hours and 37 songs. I don't know how many of them were encores but I guess most of their shows at the time were almost two hours shorter. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!
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Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 08:47
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The same thing happened on the Led Zeppelin reunion gig, but that was only because it took them 20 minutes before they went back on stage for 2 songs :D ------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 09:18
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Encores just seemed so 'manufactured' to me anymore. I know it's all part of the show, but it doesn't seem genuine when it's pre-planned. It's all part of the dance. I didn't attend this particular show, but I have a live FRC disc of Marillion' performance in Philadelphia on the Marbles tour when they left the stage after their final encore. The houselights come up, they start playing the closing music over the PA (in this case it was Cat Stevens because they were on the same infamous flight with him when he was detained), but nobody left. The cheers persist for what seemed to be 5-10 minutes until they came back on and played "Easter". Now, it's moments like this that really are special, IMO. E ------------- 
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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 09:20
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From all the concerts I have been, all the encores were planned. It was so obvious that they left some of their most famous songs to the encore. It was already correctly pointed in this thread that encores became a obligation and they are not anymore a kind of reward to a enthusiastic audience.
The encores are so planned that after the fake end, the lights are kept turned off and the crew doesn´t go on the stage, but after the real end, they turn on the lights and the crew immediately goes on the stage and start packing the equipment.
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 10:42
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i guess we've established then, that the 2nd encore is the real encore now
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: June
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 10:50
Nah... the fourth, fifth and so on are the real ones
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 11:17
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i guess we've established then, that the 2nd encore is the real encore now
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 12:28
| It depends where you are: in Greece where the crowd is still hungry for music, there is always shouting and more shouting for 2 or 3 encores.... and that has happenned in all concerts I have been |
Posted By: hirszu
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:05
| I think encores in these days lack spontaneity. As we're discussing different kinds of music, I have a great example for this. One of my favourite bands in the old days, when I didn't know what prog is, was Depeche Mode. Their setlists usually consists of 20-23 songs, mostly with two encores. The thing is, after playing the basic set, the band just quits the stage and comes back after 5 minutes. I think they don't care if the people are cheering or not, they just have a scenario writeen that after a certain amount of songs they do a short break. In this case the idea of encore dissapears. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:26
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Almost everytime I went to a concert, there were encores. Also, my band was always cheered for an encore. Overhere, if audience really likes a band, they will shout, chant, whistle, applaud and what not just to get a band back. I remember a Led Zeppelin reunion tour in Zagreb, people were shouting for 45 minutes, refusing to go out, even after roadies started unplugging the equipment. But LZ never came back on stage. Later we heard some dumbass was pointing the laser pointer on Jimmy Page while playing, he got scared thinking it might be a gun, and refused to perform an encore. |
Posted By: ~Rael~
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:39
Exactly. I've seen many planned encores. What I have never experienced is what someone above me described with Marillion, where the lights went on, the closing music was playing, and people didn't leave. I guess this could be because I go to a lot of metal concerts where the band (or, more like the drummer and vocalist [if he has been screaming his head off for an hour]) is worn out, as is the crowd. ------------- I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress . . . |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 17:06
| I never cheer, because I think it's incredibly annoying and cliche how bands handle encores now. I haven't been to a concert in my life where there wasn't an assumed encore, bands do it regardless now it seems. It's pretty obvious when bands are going to encore, since they walk off the stage without playing some of their most famous songs, surpisingly coming back with them. |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 17:31
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Yes, the concept of an encore is somewhat obsolete now. It has been for years. I recall growing up and hearing blink-182's live album where they talked about how they were going to say goodnight and stuff but everyone knows they're coming back and yadda yadda (only more elaborate and comical), and that's basically how it is nowadays.
I now recall that bit at the end of School of Rock where the band gets called for a legitimate encore and I wonder if smaller gigs still get those kinds of encores. It would be great to be an unknown band and get called back like that. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:03
Are you joking??? They're one of the best live bands of all time! TMV Live >>>>>>>>>>> Any of the music they've ever recorded in the studio! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:16
Like Pink Floyd, David Gilmour, and Roger Waters not playing Comfortably Numb during their "oficial" setlist. They almost always leave it for the encore. However, as far as I've seen about Dream Theater in DVD's and the one time I've seen them live (and what I've read about this tours setlist), it seems they usually leave out some of their most popular songs, like Take me Under and Metropolis. And they don't play them in the encore. |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:27
| DT usually does a "medley" then the Rudess vs. John battle... |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:37
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The real encore is dead because of the long tradition of planned encores. I've been to a few gigs where a band came out for a second encore and it did seem like crowd enthusiasm had something to do with it. I've also been to gigs where there was an encore at all the shows listed online, and a weak crowd got no encore. But for the most part it's very pre-programmed.
And Plankowner, it's spelled Judas. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 13 2009 at 02:27
I remember a couple of second encores at Overhead shows, one in Paris and one in Helsinki. I don't know if they were used to the thunderous kind of applause abroad, so the Paris second encore could well have been planned (they played In the Court of the Crimson King, I've never heard them play that anywhere else) but the one about a year ago in Helsinki was clearly spontaneous. That was a brilliant show, the band and the audience were all having a great time. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: September 13 2009 at 05:32
| The stupid thing about encores is the way bands comes up on stage again. The look bored like "yeah here we go again, let's play our second set". They never look overwhelmed or something, or there is no song material left.. it's so fake. Some bands come back with an unplugged song: how do you mean planned? |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 13 2009 at 14:27
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^I don't think it's stupid or fake, it's just different than decades ago. Things change, encores are an everyday thing for headliners, they know it and act accordingly. Stupid and fake would be pretending to look overwhelmed or something. Though I've never seen a band coming to play an encore and looking bored. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!
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Posted By: mono
Date Posted: September 14 2009 at 03:01
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In France, people cheer for encores on every concert i've seen. Including Mastodon where the band just left off after playing one hour with horrible sound.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: September 14 2009 at 10:55
It's really unfortunate for musicians on the road when they have to play the same songs over and over. Then the road travel for bands, like Deep Purple and many others that received encores every gig it seemed. After a while those in the band who crack from the road have a blank stare of bordem. The unfortunate part is: They wrote the material and the fans love it and the musicians have to except that even in the darkest moment of the grinding road travel.
Whether musicians choose to endulge in drugs or remain straight through the whole tour, the road will catch up to them either in performance or socialism. An encore is a pre-planned thing in this sense: The more encores you recieve, the better of a presentation you will have with the record executives.If Talent scouts or A&R people from the staff witness mass encores they will report this kind of positive activity back to record company headquarters. It's a plus for business profit and it's a definite indication that the record companies profits will grow. So the band is under pressure with this business concept and of course all the other garbage that goes with the territory. Sometimes people in the band have disagreements over this issue and it just becomes a snowball effect. On the other hand encores can be quite enjoyable. Like at a Frank Zappa concert where the encore fell naturally in place.
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Posted By: mono
Date Posted: September 16 2009 at 10:10
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Encores don't have to be songs that were played during the concerts. If the band has a large repertoire and still has "popular" songs to showcase, they generally play something else during the encore (generally a classic...). Still, the best encores I've seen are simply the natural ones: small unknown band plays an incredible set, and the people just want to see more. So when people ask for an encore, the musicians just look at each other, and decide quickly on what to do, generally ending the show with improvisation. I HATE totally planned encores where the end of the concert is simply delayed by one or two songs. We're not babies, if you've planned to play for 2 hours, don't stop at 1h45 and wait for the encore, especially if you know you're getting one... ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: September 16 2009 at 12:22
What LZ reunion tour? Do you mean the Page-Plant tour from around 96-97? From what I know there was never a LZ reunion tour. Regarding the topic, I go mostly to club concerts and it's a lot easier there to understand how everything works. You can easily walk to the stage before the concert or during the intermission (if there is one) and look on the stage floor to see the papers with the set list placed near each musician. Usually there's one encore planned and if you get a good look you'll even be able to read the tracks to be played in the encore. If the band has loyal fans then sometimes there are even two encores written on the set list. I've come to know very easily how the concert is going to end. If the band members just leave their instruments and walk out then there's going to be an encore and sometimes even more encores. If after the band walks out there is music coming from the audio system and/or the personnel is starting the clear the stage then there is no chance for another encore. The maximum number of encore I've had in a concert is 3. Some of them were not planned (I'm talking about the second and the third), but not many. I've always thought it was in the 70s when there weren't many encores, because the shows were long and exhausting. Led Zeppelin often played between three and four hours, which is unimaginable today. Why call for a second encore after such an exhausting show? (for both band and public). Also, since the 80s the shows became business and with business came standardization. Now a show last from 1 hour & 1/2 + 15-20 minutes of encore up to 1 hour & 45 minutes + 15-20 minutes of encore. Now, due to business standardization, if you ask a band manager how much does the band cost, he'll email you the prices for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 hour, 1& 1/2 hours, 2 hours. What you pay is what you get... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 16 2009 at 12:50
Dang, I'm turning into an old fart as I don't get out to concerts much any more. Back in the day though it seemed like the encore was obligatory and yes we cheered, hooted, flicked our butane lighters, and clapped until our hands were sore. Then were treated to one or two encores. I was pretty good at the hooting and clapping loud. But also speaking as an old fart we get old and tired and need to get home so we can go to sleep and get back to work. Nice to see your Dad still has the enthusiasm.------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Marlon
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 05:42
Same here. Never been to a shown where there were not an Encore. ------------- 
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 09:00
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Was allways the rule, and i dont remember 1 single concert without the band comming back for a song or 2, if there was a time when encores was an exception, its more than 25 years ago, at least where im from. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 21:20
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I hate encores, I find the false and stupid
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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