The Incident
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61324
Printed Date: June 10 2025 at 03:13
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Incident
Posted By: el böthy
Subject: The Incident
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 11:27
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Ok, the album is out, and some time has passed, so let´s talk about it! I, for one, will say something that for most of you must mean close to nothing. The Incident can be bought in almost every mainstream record shop in Argentina! I can´t tell you how strange and cool that is. Of course I INMEDIATLY bought it. But on to buisness What do you think of this album? The first thing I can think of is that I will need time to digest it, much more than with any other Porcupine Tree album. Second it´s not very progressive musically (by that I mean the usual tempo changes, riffing and so on...) but it is very progressive conceptually, if that makes any sense. I will have to give it a few more spins, but the lack of melodies and hooks and overall coldness might not make it among my favorites of them. One thing I do admire them for making this kind of album. When I heard of a 55 min songs I inmediatly thought about a Fear of a blank planet-Anesthesize kind of epic... and that´s so not the case. If anything it´s more of a Nine Inch Nails meets Meshuggah album, with Roger Water´s shadow lurking around. Maybe my opinion will change dramatically (quite probable with this kind of outputs) but I do feel they need a bit of oomph... but I might be wrong! What does surprise me is that the rating is overall VERY positive. I tought this wouldn´t go as a great album, not in this site at least, but I seem to be quite wrong... good for our "openmindness"! Oh, and the second is great! Very Nil recurring, but I think releasing it as a double album with one disc being pretty much an Ep was a very smart move. Now, you... ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 11:45
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Now that's totally funny as I phoned in to my most used local chain store and they said they didn't have it. I was able to pick it up at my local independent store though. As to what I think about it? Sounds good to me, but not the best thing since sliced bread. Not that I was expecting to be blown away anyway. Still a nice addition to my collection.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 11:55
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So it's not very progressive musically because it doesn't employ the usual musical traits of progressive music? ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 12:31
Sliced bread ... that's not exactly in the spirit of progressiveness anyway.  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 14:40
Oh, not this sh*t. If you´ve heard the album you know what I mean. Progressive? Musically not that much. Artistic? Most definitly. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 14:53
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I picked it up yesterday, based on all the five star reviews here.
I've listened to most of the first disk.
So far, I'm unimpressed. There are a few good tracks, but nothing overwhelmingly great.
Mostly, I would call it alternative rock. Not very progressive.
Sorry guys. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 14:57
This is precisely what I'm concerned about (I ordered the album yesterday and should get it sometime next week). I have a feeling it will be overblown like In Absentia (no offense to those who love it, as I myself gave that album a four), which is to say, not really prog at all, but just good rock songs. But we shall see. In any event, I won't render a review after two listens like so many have done (they should be ashamed for that). ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:06
I agree. I usually give a new album 3 or 4 full listens before I write a review. Unless it makes a strong impression earlier.
But as I'm going through the rest of my CD collection to review each album, I just listen once, to refresh my recolloction of my collection. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:40
I also thought of it as alternative rock, though there are some moments that fit in with other styles more, like the middle part of Time Flies and Circle Of Maniacs. I'm, just like you, pretty unimpressed. I've got it 5 days now, and I'm already done with it actually. In the beginning it was pretty good, but now it's just ok, definitely not their best, but not their worst either. ------------- 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 18:09
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:06
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^Ah, you and your intellectual counter-arguments! This would be a good point, the only problem I have with it is that you're mixing up the terms "prog" and "progressive," though. I thought this site had a thing about that.
Anyhow, I was just questioning his word choice in that regard. I don't disagree with his points, but I think the band progressed their sound and scope on this album. That doesn't mean I think it's good, but I think the arrangements of the material qualify just fine as "prog" and "progressive," without utilizing common elements among prog bands. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:15
I agree 100% I want Porcupine Tree to do well, but it shouldn't be at the reviewer's integrity. I haven't given it a review/rating yet, and I don't plan to for atleast 3 weeks to absorb the album more. I do like it however, although I only really like one track on CD2 (Remember Me Lover) and I only genuinely really like about half of THE INCIDENT so far... |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:50
Not progressive? Plain alternative rock? Did you even pay attention to what's going on in the music while you were listening to it? Sorry, but even if this offends many people, I think that whoever doesn't "get" the progressiveness in The Incident does have a lot to learn about prog ... ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Bondarus
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 02:16
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I really need to go out and get this.
Money is abit tight at the moment, but maybe I can convince my other to buy it for me as a wedding anniversary present?
 Hey...she got some flowers and a Spa treatment... a cd can't be too much to ask surely?  ------------- www.enochiantheory.co.uk www.myspace.com/enochiantheoryband "I am the coming of a new age, pass your sh*t by far..." |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 02:21
| $106 dollars for the super deluxe edition! She won't even bat an eye.. |
Posted By: progmetalhead
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 03:47
 Mike, would you be kind enough to expand your views on this?
I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. PM me if you rather. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 Colt - Admin Team MMA 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:17
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^ it's the distinction between prog style and progressive approach ... it's obvious that The Incident is nothing like Genesis or Yes in terms of style. The problem, as I see it, is that many people think in terms of style *only* and completely forget the other aspects. Back in the 70s the prog artists usually used both. They invented new styles - also with the help of all new instruments like synthesizers, mellotron etc - but also had much experimentalism, avant-garde etc. in their music. IMO The Incident is a nice example of an album that has the experimentalism, avant-garde ... call it "progressive spirit" or - as I've settled for on PF - "progressive approach", but without the stylistic similarity, which makes it simply more difficult to recognize for those who look for synth solos and layers of mellotron.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:24
Then what is so prog about it? There are some progressive songs on here, I agree, but most of them are pretty straight forward. The concept doesn't make it progressive either, as the concept musically is very fragile IMO. Also, it doens't feel like a 55 minute epic suite, it feels more like a concept album. Alternative is a very wide term, and I really think The Incident fits in with it, it contains elements of various music styles (Rock, pop, trip-hop, industrial, metal etc.), and combines that. But that doesn't make it progressive though... I'm sure what the band's answer would be if you asked them if the album is prog. -------------
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:44
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^ I think Steven Wilson said otherwise in an interview I read ... unfortunately I don't have it here right now (at work), I can post an excerpt later. I think that The Incident can be best called a "song cycle" ... it's a sequence of songs that are nicely connected, and there is a common theme and also some nice musical links between the songs. As far as I am concerned, it absolute screams "PROGRESSIVE" ... but - as I said above - not in terms of style. If you disagree that's fine with me, but I still think that I'm right about this. "Right" in that whatever PT do on The Incident, it should be called "progressive". ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:11
You might be right about the progressive spirit, as the thing is a very ambitious piece of music. It does feel too inconsistant both in terms of music and style to me though. And because of that, the concept starts to fade away too IMO. What you said about experimentalism and avant-garde... I don't know. I don't think it is very avant-garde, as the Incident combines a lot of musical ideas they did before. I can hear some psychedelic, early Porcupine Tree in it, some more pop like PT from Stupid Dream, and lots of FOABP style music. By combining these things I dont think they have made much progress since FOABP at all. They don't have to, of course, but it doesn't make The Incident very avant-garde and refreshing I think.
I agree about the song cycle thing, though the album was announced as a 55 minute song and 4 song EP. -------------
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Posted By: progmetalhead
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:34
Thanks Mike!
I knew you would explain better than I ever could and obviously I totally agree with you ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 Colt - Admin Team MMA
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:49
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Horrible album. Trash. Disgusting. ------------- 
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:53
Really? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:55
Nah, I haven't even heard it yet  -------------
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:58
^^
I smell a troll... 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:56
No, that's just Harry. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:59
On another note, do we really need three freaking threads on this one album?  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58722 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61324 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60278 ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:42
It's the new Porcupine Tree album, of course we do. The real question is which one should we use? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:10
I got an completely different impression. Did you pay any attention to the lyrics? The whole cycle seems very homogenous to me, it all "ties in" both lyrically and musically. You're describing the album on a very shallow level, which I don't think is appropriate. For example I think that it would have been appropriate for albums like Stupid Dream or Deadwing.
It is a 55 minute song, it's simply constructed as a sequence of chapters with recurring elements - which some choose to call "cycle". ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Abyssal Sheep
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:25
| I like it, though the first disc heavily outclasses the second for me (except Remember Me Lover, which is amazing). If I were to write a review right now, I'd give it four stars. What I like about it is that there's a lot more emotion in The Incident than in Fear of a Blank Planet, where only parts of My Ashes and Sentimental could really touch me. Steven's singing has improved as well, except on Drawing the Line which is probably my least favourite part of the album - he just wasn't ready for that yet, it sounds like he's totally exhausting himself, lawl. |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:26
Though the whole cycle might tie in lyrically, I don't think it ties in musically, apart from some parts (Octane Twisted/Seance/Circle Of Manias is a good example of that). I think, despite the album being a concept album, Porcupine Tree focuses more on the music that lyrics, as the lyrics are good but not overwhelmingly special, so I chose to discuss the music. What you said about my way of discribing fitiing in with an album like Deadwing feels a bit strange to me, as Deadwing also is a concept album, which might even be more strory driven that The Incident is. Anyway, I don't think this discussion will end... we both have our opinions and I don't think they'll change, so I suggest continouing this discussion won't really work.
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:35
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^ but then again discussions can be enlightening even if no solution is found ... I simply find it interesting to discover points of view that I hadn't thought of before. For example, I have never thought of Deadwing as a concept album. BTW: The Incident is not really a "narrative" concept album, it's more like a big musical essay about existence and what we are (or should/shouldn't be) doing with our lives, combined with the incident itself as a spark for those thoughts. Deadwing might be the opposite ... it was based on a planned screen play, so there might be more elements of narrative stories in it. Still, I think that musically it is by far less homogenous than The Incident. The latter is just so cleverly constructed, with Time Flies in the center, and the introductory theme repeated after the incident etc.. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:57
I'm quite sure that's intentional ... I didn't like that part at first, but it's not a problem anymore. Sounding out of breath while singing lines like "I'm taking control" is giving the lines some irony, which is in line with the general topic of the album. The bottom line is that you are definitely not in control of your life ... it is happening to you, whether you like it or not, and you can only try to make the best of it. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:07
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I seem to be the only one really enjoying Drawing the Line. Perhaps my favourite part of the whole album.
Here's what Steven Wilson has to say about the album concept: "“There was a sign saying ‘POLICE – INCIDENT’ and everyone was slowing down to rubber neck to see what had happened... Afterwards, it struck me that ‘incident’ is a very detached word for something so destructive and traumatic for the people involved. And then I had the sensation that the spirit of someone that had died in the accident entered into my car and was sitting next to me. “The irony of such a cold expression for such seismic events appealed to me, and I began to pick out other ‘incidents’ reported in the media and news,” continues Wilson. “I wrote about the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch#April_2008_raid - evacuation of teenage girls from a religious cult in Texas , a family terrorizing its neighbors, a body found floating in a river by some people on a fishing trip, and more. Each song is written in the first person and tries to humanize the detached media reportage.” http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/PORCUPINE-TREE-REVEAL-DETAILS-OF-THE-INCIDENT-20315.aspx - http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/PORCUPINE-TREE-REVEAL-DETAILS-OF-THE-INCIDENT-20315.aspx ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:23
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^I liked Drawing the Line, too. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:53
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Ok. I've listened to the album all the way through now.
What is it with Porcupine Tree??? This is an interesting album but it was anointed best prog album of the year before people even heard it and now a large proportion of people are either buying into the hype or acting remarkably disappointed that it's not the album of the year.
I don't dislike it but there are many many good album out this year and there is no way this is even top 5. Riverside has put out an album with some very similar qualities - dark atmosphere, heavy elements, but it's so much more varied, more emotional, and most of all MORE PROG!!!!
I need to give several of these albums more listens to see how they hold up, but why this band? There was a prog show where they played songs from Part the Second and Incident side by side and it was like a young Picasso next to an average college art major.
It's not bad, but jeez people. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 15:59
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^ I've listened to the new Riverside album about 5 times - same with The Incident. I clearly prefer The Incident, although I also like ADHD very much. What I don't understand about your post: Why focus on what's bad, or even what's worse? So you think that The Incident is pure nonsense, not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with ADHD? I genuinely don't understand what is happening to this place ... when I joined even despite of all the arguments about which band should be added and which shouldn't, it was still a place where music lovers came together to praise music. Nowadays it seems to me more like a big arena where people try to slaughter bands that they, for whichever reason, can't get into after one quick listen. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 16:17
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What I'm saying is that on early listen, I can hear Riverside stretching into new territory. I can hear them challenging themselves (which was not so much the case on part 3 of their previous trilogy). I cannot take all of it in on one listen, but I can tell it's going to be worth my time to do so. If the Incident were not being hyped as it is, I might not give it a second listen, frankly. And I think it probably shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Part the Second in terms of art or progressiveness.
That all seems harsh, and I will listen to it more because I respect others' opinions. But I search to understand what the claims for album of the year already being thrown around are about.
I'll shut up now until I listen a few more times. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 18:01
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^Porcupine Tree just seem to be one of those bands that gets a lot of attention and admiration from the majority of prog fans whilst a number of us are left wandering what all the fuss is and see them as an OK, or even mediocer, band. Unfortunatly it leads to a lot of hype and people claiming "album of the year" before anyones heard it, and this is the third album in a row to get that treatment.
Havn't actaully listened to The Incident, and since I really didnt like the last 2 albums and its not getting very favourable opinions from several people in here I dont think I'll bother with it. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 18:29
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^ FYI: The album was released last week in Europe. I haven't said anything about the album prior to listening to it. But why do I bother ... you already made up your mind anyway. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 18:33
In all honesty, what's so special about the new Riverside album compared to the previous ones? IMO it's a great album, but they didn't exactly re-invent themselves. BTW: I don't think that you should "shut up" until you've listened to the album in more detail ... but calling it an "average art major" ... I don't know. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 21:58
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Having listen to it a few more times I think The Incident is more of a Tales of topo, The Wall kind of album. Which means it´s better left for those "special" moments, it´s not an everyday album. But I do think it´s good. Shame disc 2 is so short, I would have liked another song...
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 22:48
Riverside did stretch themselves more on their new record, but the songs on Rapid Eye Movement were far more atmospheric and emotional (and memorable at least in my case). Even then, the streches were only small ones. ADHD is a transitional album of sorts. Some fresh new ideas, but not spectacular. Porcupine Tree's album is about at the same overall level of quality, and they did mix things up a bit this time around, maybe not as much as Riverside, but enough. Still, it's also not a great album. That feels a bit rambled, and I don't have time for details, but I hope it made some sense.
Don't forget that PA is now full of PT "fanboys" and many of these claims are reflexive. I understand exactly where you're coming from. The abundant raves for PT around here turn me off too, but even still I try not to let that impede my judgement. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 00:04
I think it is a reaction to the fanboism thing that Toaster Mantis wrote about in his blog. Praising bands is not a problem in any shape or form but there's a problem when fans are not receptive at all to a contradictory opinion and gang up to crucify dissenters. It's not much prevalent here in all fairness but it happens a lot on the net and I can understand why Negoba already sounds tired of PT mania. A particularly annoying aspect about fanboism in the internet is how the fanboys like to assume their favourite bands are underrated and overlooked. I have never understood why that is so important. I gladly call myself a fan of popular bands like Beatles, Queen, Pink Floyd, Scorpions and Van Halen. I have met a lot of PT fans though who consider them to be underrated and aforementioned bands overhyped...in what sense I don't know because PT are a lot more popular than many bands in the prog umbrella, old or new. Anyway, I haven't heard the new album yet but will soon get around to it, this reads like it's something different for this band, whether it is remains to be seen for me. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:20
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^ can you point me to one post or review where someone says that PT are underrated *and* that some other bands are overrated - in a sense that people should stop listen to those bands and listen to PT instead (or stop giving them high ratings and give them to PT instead)? I can't remember having seen just one ... BTW: What I *am* seeing in this thread is a lot of hateboys trying to counteract the fanboys ... and personally, I think hateboys are much worse than fanboys. Incidentally: Have a look at my top 40 albums of 2009:  You see that I listen to a lot of different styles, and my favorites are really not limited to the popular bands. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:27
| I have said before that it's not much of a problem here at all but it is in the net in general. I remember reading a thread elsewhere recently where the premise of the poster was simply that bands like PT didn't get as much recognition as bands like Queen and hence classic rock was horrible and overrated. I don't know if you are referring specifically to Negoba by the term hateboys, but his post didn't read like one. He sounded a little grumpy about the hype over the album, that's all. Maybe not reasonable but understandable human tendency. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:40
^ I would define the word "hateboy" as someone who tries to make an album look worse than it actually is ... IMO that applies to portions of his post. But of course I'll never know for sure - maybe it's his true and honest opinion that The Incident is like an average art major compared to a Picasso. In that case I would say that in my opinion he's simply wrong. But that shouldn't be a problem either, since my opinion has no binding effect on anyone ... ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:48
An album is ultimately as good or as bad as you perceive it to be. I don't bother anymore about which albums people talk about more than the others, but I can see why it would affect Negoba's perceptions, for instance. I really can't say anything more about it because, I repeat myself, I haven't yet heard the album. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:52
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^ it really sucks that the release dates for Europe and the rest of the world are so far apart ... whoever decided that should, in my humblest opinion, be fired. It's the single worst thing that can happen to a new release ...
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 20 2009 at 16:53
The Incident over Part the second?  Wow, you must really like The Incident! jejeej------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 20 2009 at 23:27
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After first listen...not impressed.
A few (and I mean few) nice passages throughout the "epic" but overall falls very flat imo. Seems they've taken all the things I didnt like about FOABP and expanded on them. Second disc was less satisfying.
Also, is it me or was the production ho-hum? I was expecting a big sound (with Wilson's audiofile behavior) but it seemed quite subduded...even in the more explosive sections. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 20 2009 at 23:50
I think The Incident is very subtle... and maybe too subtle for it´s own sake. It´s probably more intelectually stimulating than emotionally and musically. Still, as I said before, I think it´s a type of album that shouts out for a special moment, it´s not an everyday album if you will. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 08:52
My post wasnt directed at you Mike, I know your not one to comment on albums before you've heard them, it was to Negoba's post that I was replying.
And yes, I have made up my mind, I'm not going to keep throwing money at a band that has repeatedly disappointed me. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 09:31
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Anyway, so I must admit over time FOABP has been getting less and less interesting to listen too, so admittedly when I found out "MAN NEW PT ALBUM" I wasn't even excited. Although I do still seriously enjoy the song Anesthetize, that's probably one of the best songs from PT this decade. So yeah, I heard it, and my policy these days, if I'm not sure if I'll like an album, I download it, listen to it. If I dig it, generally I'll go out and buy it. If I don't, usually will just delete it off my computer. And yeah, I deleted it off my computer, if that's any indication of how much I enjoyed this latest PT release =P -------------
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 09:34
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^ well, if PT have disappointed you with their previous albums then chances are you won't like this one either. I'd say that if you don't like their style and you can't relate to the topic (death/mortality)all too much, repeated listens won't help either ... depending on the circumstances they can bring you closer to the album or drive you away. BTW: I've been known to comment on albums even if I've only listened to samples ... but I try to always mention that along with my comments, so people who read them can decide for themselves whether these comments have any relevance to them. :-) ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 12:15
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I'm now listening again, and I do like it better. It's prog and it's going to take some work to truly appreciate. From the beginning I've said it is a good album. I may even give it 4 stars by the time I review it. But it's not the album of the year and that phrase is mainly what I was referring to. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 12:54
^ it may continue to grow on you though ... 
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 13:10
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Is it me or is there more Opeth influence in a couple places on this album than I've ever heard before?
It's also driving me crazy, there's a melodic motif in either the verse or pre-chorus of "I Drive the Hearse" that I've heard before in something much more pop-py. Anyone recognize this? ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 13:26
Hear! Hear! |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 13:46
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So Tony, do you like the new album?
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 14:07
Ha! Hmmmm. The diplomatic answer would be that I'm not a big fan of 55 minute song-cycle concept pieces. Yet. However, I didnt like Deadwing at first. Even on the way home from the concert on the Deadwing Tour I was still pretty ambivalent about the album (except Arriving..) now I really like it. At the moment The Incident is one good track; Time Flies and quite a lot of meh... I listened to the DTS version last night and that was a good experience for me. Early days for me then. My guess is that ultimately the album will be seen as a worthy but ultimately failed experiment. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 14:16
Seconded, or,better, thirded  . I haven't heard the album yet, though I hope to do so before we see PT live next Friday in Baltimore. However, even if I didn't like it, I would refrain from joining any one of the current bash-fests. Gosh almighty, people - this place is riddled with negative threads, 'worst' this and 'least X' that. Don't you think it's time to give it a break? |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 14:17
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^ there's a DTS version? The page at Amazon.de just says "double CD".
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 14:26
Alright, I have said negative things about bands. But hey, even I need to rant from time to time. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:03
Comes with the Special Edition.  |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:07
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^ nice package ... I don't like this move though, to make the high quality mix part of the exclusive limited edition.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:08
| There will be a DVD-A release... |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:13
While I'm fully surprised Porcupine Tree seems to be bashed for the first time ever, I'd vote we equally be cautious with the opinions that don't break the rules by being negative. I'm personally on the "Incident stinks" side of reception right now, and I'd hate to be told that I need to listen to it 50 more times for it to grow or that I didn't hear it right or, worse, that I'm cultivating negativism. This isn't the first time both bashing and flawlessly praising has happened, we've all seen it before, we can't really put an end to it, so let's just clear the path for the valid thoughts, both ways. -------------
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:14
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^^ that's nice to know ... makes no sense for me though to delay the release like that. Limited edition CD box set, limited edition vinyl, two different mp3 versions at Amazon, regular CD version ... and only after they sold all those they'll publish the regular CD+DVD version? ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:29
I've thought about it a lot in the last couple of days. I don't mind at all if people don't like the album or even down-right hate it. What I really can't understand is when people say that it's shallow, or it has no emotions, or that some of the transitions are haphazard (just read that in an Amazon comment) ... it's just not true. Comments like that suggest to me (and I'm a suggestable reader ) that the reviewer might not have given the album the necessary attention. This still isn't necessarily a bad thing for a reviewer to do ... few of us have the time to listen a dozen times to each albums they review. I'm very sure that I've also rated some albums lower than they deserve simply because I didn't give them enough time. If The Incident is an album that a) requires that much attention and b) only appeals to a certain type of listener then it might very well not be the album of the year for the average listener. It can still be that for me though. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 21 2009 at 16:38
I agree with that thoroughly - I'm not planning to review it for atleast a month-ish, because I still haven't given it the attention I feel it deserves to form a proper opinion on it. FOABP is my least favourite from PT, but thats because I have around 6 months to digest it and form that opinion... With this, the most I could have had is 11 days, which makes it ridiculous to attempt writing a review so far... Who knows, the album may lose all effect on me in another week, and that would make my review pointless. I like it, but they have better IMO. I also agree with what you said about this being album of the year for you, even if other people can't stand it... One of my favourite ever albums is TORMATO by YES, and I still can't understand why a vast majority of people on here hate it... |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 00:51
I don't see what the problem is. You pay more and you should expect to get more, simple isn't it? That's how it always is with those deluxe/exclusive limited editions of albums, so I wouldn't sweat it.
That's a good point actually. I'm kind of sick of the attitude "GIVE IT AT LEAST 10000000000 LISTENS MAN YOU COULD GET INTO IT LATER". I feel I gave this new PT album a chance, despite the fact in hindsight I knew I'd be disappointed, so I think I was being very fair to give it about 10 listens and mind you I sat there and did nothing but listen to it, not reading at the same time, but just taking it all in and it disappointed quite frankly. And even if there is the remote chance I could like it after 50 or so listens, that's 50 listens I believe better spent on something I know I already love anyway and can be sure I enjoy. -------------
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 01:19
All the previous PT studio albums are available as CD+DVD-A for a reasonable price (15-20 EUR), but for The Incident they included the DVD-A only in the ultra limited 55 EUR box set, at least for the time being. So if you want the DVD-A now, you are forced to buy the box set. My strategy: I bought the MP3s for 8 EUR, since I wasn't aware of the box set ... if they ever publish an affordable CD+DVD-A package I'll buy it, but it's a rip-off nevertheless. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 03:00
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After three listens, I like the general sound of it, but many of the songs seem rather forgettable. The Blind House and Time Flies are miles above the rest, hopefully further listens will reveal other gems.
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 07:05
There seems to be a tendency towards a "Love-Hate" relationship with Porcupine Tree. I have seen it with Dream Theater and The Flower Kings and many more. Their latest outing is either their best (5 stars) or it absolutely sucks (1 star). As a result the average rating of many excellent albums (take DT's latest or the one prior to that) rests around 3.5 stars. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 07:25
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^ indeed. Each album is different and not all reviewers are alike, but there's definitely a pattern of increased negativity for albums that some reviewers get really excited about ... those are often the "secret masterpieces" of the genres, whereas other, less extreme albums are more popular and have a higher average rating. Hm ... maybe this is something that I could take into account at PF ... the "volatility" of the ratings can be measured and used in the average calculation. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 07:37
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^using statistics the variance expresses this loverboy - hateboy relationship. You need to cut off the tails of the rating distribution.....or something like that |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 07:51
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^ I'm inclined to simply give those albums with high variance a little bonus ... I just implemented that at PF. The bonus is just half of the standard deviation. I think that this is something that specifically applies to rating art or other things that don't have any fixed rules for how/what to rate. Giving items a slight bonus which have a high variance is simply a way of giving those albums the "benefit of a doubt". Or in another way: For albums that have a high number of extreme ratings in either direction (good/bad) there's a good chance that if you check it out you will like it more than represented by its current average rating. Of course you might also hate it, but nevertheless it's an interesting album to check out than those which have little variance.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 08:05
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^sounds fair.
The tail regions represent "emotional outburts" and I guess psycholgy shows that humans are more likely to express negativeness than positiveness, hence the former tail should be weighted less.
The rational average rating should conform to this approach.
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 08:27
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^ that's another interesting way to put it, although I would say that emotional outbursts happen on the other end as well ... still we can choose to to trust enthusiasm more than negativity. :-)
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 10:12
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I think any doctoring of the statistics must be done very cautiously. Of course on your site you can do it however you want.
I'm still very stuck on whether the album is 3 stars or 4. I'll hearing something I really like and then I finally noticed (as apparently everyone else already did) the direct lift off of "Dogs." There's another melodic lift that's more subtle.
Part the Second remains the album of the year for me in a spectacular year for good prog. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Bravejester
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 10:56
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I really already love The Incident a lot ( I think it's now my number 3 PT album after In Absentia and Stupid Dream ) so I really don't care if it's a progressive record with 1 epic of 55 minutes or a song cycle or whatever you want to call it.
In the end for me all that matters is that I love listening to it
 and I've done so since September 11 ( it sure did hit me like a two ton heavy thing ) at least 2 times a day ( and it's playing now! ) The production is great and so his Steve's voice on it which is always important to me.Highlights are: The Incident, Time Flies, Octane Twisted/The Seance/Circles Of Manias, I Drive The Hearse.
------------- Think for yourself and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 11:09
I don't consider it to be a "lift" ... Animals was the first album SW ever bought (if I remember the article correctly), so I'd rather call it a hommage. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 11:33
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You know this love hate relationship you guys discussed in the previous page. I think I've actually seen it only on prog websites. I think the reason is that people expect prog and when it's not they don't like it. A lot of people don't take it for what it is. Anyways, back on topic. I've given it a few more spins and it's grown a bit. It's still not great, but has some good moments. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 12:26
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Hmm, I don't even get the Part the Second super mega 5 star business, it's good but it ain't no Bath either, but that's just me. As much as I didn't like the album I will at least agree with Mike that I think it was more of a homage than a direct lift from "Dogs". -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 12:43
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Well Harry, taking the metal out of one of the leading avant-metal band is unlikely to please some people. I had actually never heard MotW before Part the Second and it still sends goosebumps down my spine. I bought Leaving Your Body Map the the heavy elements sometimes add and sometimes subtract to me. Just taste I guess. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 12:53
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As far as Time Flies/Dogs is concerned it is entirely deliberate. SW said so in an interview. He was completely unapologetic (why shouldnt he be?). I can hear parts of DSotM in there too. As Mike says (Mr Progfreak, now there's a potential concept album...) one politely refers to this replication as an "homage" and so it is. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 12:58
I guess I just have to listen more.  .....now that I think about it, it does tie in to the theme of the song a bit. I'm actually going to have to figure out the lyrics before I can review this thing, aren't I? ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:02
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^ I honestly can't imagine listening to this album without paying attention to the lyrics. I *guess* that if someone listened to the album like that it would be a lot less impressive. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:06
I'm an instrumentalist primarily and that's what I listen for. I listen to the melodic and tonal part of the voice, but unless the lyric is up front, I often let it glide by. Individual phrases get processed, but I have to sit down with a lyric in front of me most times to say "Oooooh, that's what the hades he was singing about." Sometimes what I imagined was better than what was actually being sung.....that happened on Indukti's new one for me recently. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:15
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^ I'm just saying that especially with a band like Porcupine Tree and an album like The Incident, knowing what the songs are about can make a huge difference. It can put your mind into a position where your imagination can be inspired by the music. For example, when The Incident (the track) begins I tend to imagine being in a car in the evening on a road with heavy traffic, slowly rolling towards the scene of an accident with blue light everywhere.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:24
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I just read all the lyrics and I'm still not sure what it's all about....it certainly doesn't seem to be about one particular incident but many of the ones SW says got him started on the concept. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:27
| The first time i heard it i liked it, then i saw it live and loved it. Now ive heard it a few times and dont care as much. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:30
Sure, I was talking about the track The Incident specifically. I think the common denominator is "life is short, find your pleasures where you can". ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 14:14
Quoting myself from earlier this thread:
------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 03 2009 at 02:54
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Interesting i will buy the album just to hear and can have an opinion
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Posted By: jme
Date Posted: October 14 2009 at 14:23
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i have mixed feelings about this album. i mean, i was a little let down. here is a band who releases albums CONSTANTLY, and they are consistently good! 2007 saw "fear of a blank planet". it was a far cry different from 2005's "deadwing", not better or worse, but a different animal! in less than 6 months, they release "nil recurring", leftovers from "blank planet", and i enjoyed that more than the "real album"!
so, what have we here? my ears do not hear that fresh new album (sort of like the "new car" smell for the ears). and yes, it is a good album. but, i hear a lot of rehashings...a little "trains", some of the same sounds from the last album...not really a brand that i expect from this kind of band. there are a few positive things i can say about it... the opening HUGE chord in "occam's razor" which reappears in "degree zero" reminded me some of rush's "xanadu"! and, no, the idea that this is a concept album has nothing to do with it. i understand the concept, a sort of agnostic story, and i have read about the occam's razor theory...it is not where i am coming from in my beliefs. but, this has nothing really to do with my feelings....it is a good album, but coming from such a prolific band, it seems mediocre to me, like they are repeating themselves. it is less experimental than previous albums. bonnie the cat has to be my favorite song...and it is outside the concept. actually, i enjoy the bonus disc more than the "album". after this album, i think i will be listening first before buying. ------------- "gravity: it's what's for dinner!" |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 19 2009 at 15:52
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I've listened to the album about twenty timers now since buying it. I love this band, and I have really tried to give the album a fair chance, certainly before attempting to review it on PA. However, I'm sorry, but I am now finding it almost impossible to listen all the way through. I never thought I would say this about any prog LP, and certainly not about PT, but I find it unutterably BORING. I have prog LPs which I find bad, self indulgent, crazy, but never dull, and this one is. As things stand, it would only get a 2 star review from me, and that would probably be because of the shameless rip off of Animals, which remains my favourite PF album. Am I alone in thinking this? (and, no, I haven't read all the posts )------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 19 2009 at 15:58
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=242023 - - Not a damn bit. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 19 2009 at 16:03
Hi Robert Yes, I saw your review, and agree with every word - actually, it was one of the very few times when I WANTED to disagree with you, but, as usual, couldn't  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |