Holdsworth's Popularity in Prog Circles
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63251
Printed Date: April 19 2024 at 06:35
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Topic: Holdsworth's Popularity in Prog Circles
Posted By: villastrangiato
Subject: Holdsworth's Popularity in Prog Circles
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 21:15
| I routinely see people mention the influences of Hackett, Fripp, Gilmour and other well known names in prog rock in general - but rarely see Alan Holdsworth's name come up even though people like Lifeson have readily acknowledged his influence - do people know who this guy is or is the work he did with Bruford too obscure? Also, what's up with the apparent disparity in recognition given to Fripp over Belew. I've been a Crimson fan since Levin joined and I can't understand why Belew hasn't received more attention for both his technical skills and vivid imagination from an acoustical standpoint. I've admired both Fripp and Belew's contributions and the amazing skill they bring to an exciting interaction in live performances - but why doesn't Belew seem to get the respect he deserves as an innovator and inspiring musician? |
Replies:
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 21:22
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Holdsworth's name is well, more popular in fusion circles really, heh, and he also tends to get a very regular mention on metalguitarist.org, sevenstring.org, and petrucciforum.com (John Petrucci's official forum board). It's unfortunate not as many people as should be recognize Holdsworth's influence and talents around here. Personally I think he's a far more expressive solo guitarist than Lifeson, Gilmour or Hackett |
Posted By: villastrangiato
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 21:36
| I wouldn't say Holdsworth is "more expressive" - especially more expressive than Gilmour. After all, that is what Gilmour has been known for throughout his career. Holdsworth technically could probably run circles around Gilmour like Di Meola or McLaughlin. Frankly, in terms of "expression", my biggest problem with Holdsworth over the years has been the lack of structure and coherence in his playing. He tends to take a more freeform jazz oriented approach to soloing - obviously - his focus has been largely jazz. But some of the sounds he's produced and the execution has been mesmerizing. And Lifeson is no slouch at breathing soul into his playing - anyone who's heard Necromancer or seen the live version of Bravado from Rio can vouch for that. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 21:45
Nah, I think his work with Soft Machine and Gong are too obscure, not to mention his solo career.  I'm a little with you on Belew not getting the recognition he should have. But then again popularity in prog circles isn't all it's cracked up to be.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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villastrangiato wrote:Posted By: Kazuhiro
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 21:47
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Pat Metheny,Santana,Van Halen,,, However, he is not rich in a money part. He visits well also for Japan where I live and is doing live. However, he sold the guitar to the Japanese instrument shop because he had not had room in money. Three guitars already. It is felt that it is a misfortune. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:00
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any 'prog circle' [sounds like something you'd discover in a corn field] that doesn't know or appreciate Holdsworth is no prog circle worth its weight.. I mean c'mon, he was on the first U.K. record fer cryin out loud |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:06
David? Is that you?  But yes, agreed. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:07
| yes it's me..no good? |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:14
It's fine, just that this could turn out worse than when Ivan changed his avatar.  |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:19
 I don't think I'm that popular (at least I hope not  )
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 22:31
OMFG...David changed his avatar!
 -------------  |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 23:05
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I found the pear had a soothing effect. I don't know if I can bear this aggressive chaos. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 23:07
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hmm, yes, it is unsettling |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 00:06
Fair enough, but I personally don't consider that "soulful" style of playing to be necessarily more emotive. Holdsworth may be technically accomplished, but I listen to phrasing, note choice and nuance first and foremost and as far as I'm concerned, Holdsworth has all 3 in spades. That being said, I'm not particular a huge fusion nut and prefer rock guitarists as such. Think more Guthrie Govan and you're on the money of the stuff I particular enjoy the most when it comes to solo electric guitar. Guys that can play that Gilmourish slow stuff, but also have the sheer technical command of "shred" techniques are the pinnacle of expression on electric guitar for me personally And anyway, part of good technique is good vibrato, intonation and bending, and Guthrie IMO is even better than Gilmour in both the bending and vibrato department, although both are equally in tune. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 01:03
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I really like Holdsworth's playing on the debut UK album and Gong's Gazeuse, but apart from those two, find his phrasing, articulation and monotonous timbre elsewhere, very predictable.
As for Belew, I agree that he is probably always going to be cast rather unfairly, in the shadow of Fripp. The reasons for this are probably manyfold, but one significant factor is that he lends a more accessible, commercial flavour to Crimson that perhaps some of the hardline Red serfs deem inapropriate or populist ? ------------- 
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 02:47
The casual fan does not know who he is. These are the guys who are convinced that there is no better guitarist out there than the one from their favorite group. The serious prog fan is aware of him and knows how good he is. ------------- 
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Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 08:03
| Whenever Holdsworth's activities are too often concentrated on fusion or jazz-fusion related music (ok, UK debut is different), it's nothing strange, that he is not as well-known, or more forgotten, than heavy-prog guitarists or Gilmour. Do you think that now is time for jazz-rock/fusion popularity top? Don't think so. So, I think it's a main reason in Holdsworth case. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 10:30
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Strange nobody above has acknowledged the term 'Holdsworthian' being accepted in the guitar shred lexicon, i.e. for guitarists who adopt Holdsworth's legato, playing at a tangent to a tune's main theme(s), and those fast runs. We've done it before at PA, listing a couple of dozen guitarists who have or still are Holdsworthian, both in the prog and jazz fusion fields, ranging from Francis Dunnery to Frank Gambale .
As to "fame", Holdsworth has never gone after this - you only have to attend a concert and discover the man is uncomfortable by the attention fans put on him and he would much rather be playing perfection (at the end of the show, you can see in his face that was unobtainable yet again that night). But fame is also more likely obtained sticking to one genre, but this isn't Holdsworth thing. AND having a publicity machine, e.g. being with one of the big record labels; again the antithesis of Holdsworth. His non-jazz fusion involvement including prog bands & records, can be readily listed: Tempest, UK, Bruford (surely Bruford drifted between jazz rock and Canterbury prog), Soma, K2, Riptyde, Neverwasneverwillbe, Stu Hamm, Jack Bruce (indeed Holdsworth's solo on Bruce's Obsession, is to me emotional perfection - it takes Gilmour to play the blues before he gets to me), even the metal of Krokus, etc. etc.
Holdsworth paid his dues in the 70's and for what ever reason, ever since been his own man wrt to the music he plays, without gaining the riches - but serious guitarists and serious guitar music fans respect this (Metheny, McLaughlin, Satriani, Van Halen are on record...) and know of him. Because Mojo, Rolling Stone or Classic Rock music media hacks fail to includes his name in their lists of top 100 guitarists, is a reason to doubt the innovation and importance of Holdsworth.
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 11:10
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Holdworth the the Godfather of legato shred, which is the style I subscribe to. Eddie Van Halen's style is basically Holdsworth and Clapton + his own tricks and any guitarist who's been around awhile is well aware of Holdsworth.
At the same time, some of his stuff is just too soft jazz for me, despite some impressive guitar work.
And to punch the same card for the 10000th time. If you like Holdsworth, check out Chris Poland's Ohm. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 11:33
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There was a period in time when he was really pimped on this forum. Things go through trends and bands rise and fall as the centerpieces of discussion. I actually thought this was going to be a thread asking why he's so revered on this site. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: villastrangiato
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 11:48
Posted By: villastrangiato
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 11:50
LOL!! -"pimped" - now there's a term of endearment Alan would probably find very fitting!
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Posted By: meatal
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 19:32
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Just a note: Holdsworth's playing especially on "Metal Fatigue" is awsome, as well as in Jean Luc Ponty albums. And should be recognized more. But he also played on Alex Masi's "Attack of the Neon Shark" which was great, as well as Jeff Watson's "Lone Ranger" on the track "Forest Of Feeling" (he just shreds) very cool hearing him outside of the fusion style. ------------- The bitter harvest of a barren land, I'm painting pictures you don't understand. (Fates Warning) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 19:38
| at this point it's quite possible he's appeared on well over 100 albums |
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:07
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Frank Zappa said this: "There's one other guy whose work I know who should be included in that list who I respect and that's Allan Holdsworth." and if Zappa said it there is nothing else to discuss All hail Zappa and Holdsworth!  ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 19:54
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fortunately he didn't say, get up and jump from your window