Bad Epics
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7010
Printed Date: May 15 2025 at 04:16
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Topic: Bad Epics
Posted By: Yanns
Subject: Bad Epics
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:22
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I wonder, are there any epics out there that you find truly bad? Like, you simply don't like it. Let me know. |
Replies:
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:23
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The epic from the new Mars Volta cd And like all of the Tool epics, all are them are at best below average |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:37
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Gog Magog( In Bromine Chamber)...Peter Hammill....complete tripe. What a big disappointment for such a great artist Love Supreme....The Flower Kings...it is okay...it just lacks the dynamics a bit. Harvest of Souls certainly could be better....the anti-american statements grate on me as well. Atom Heart Mother......B.O.R.I.N.G! |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:39
I think it's ok, but the last 10 minutes is quite annoying. The rest of the album is excellent IMO! |
gdub411 wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:41
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Well there are 2 epics on Frances the Mute if you're going by track
names (even though they say it's all one song). Miranda That
Ghost Just Isn't Holy Anymore gets so intense and Phra-Men-Ma is
awesome. I feel that Cassandra Geminni only picks up in the last
half because most of it is too dull and spacy. I mean, it's
supposed to be atmospheric and all, but really... People have
told me Cassandra is the highlight of the album... no. And have
you heard the single called Frances the Mute? They left the song
off of the album due to time constraints. Thank God they did
because it's a bad song, let me tell ya. And yeah, as far as Tool, the problem with Lateralus is that parts drag on. The moody atmospheric parts are just really unattractive to me, but they act as a good lead into something intense like Ticks & Leeches. I think the biggest reason I was upset at Lateralus having dull parts was because AEnima was just nonstop great. Tool is always at their best in that aspect. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:44
Meh....it is one of my least favorites from him...it surprises me that this site gives this lp the best rating among all his lps. I prefer Silent Corner and The Empty Stage...unfortunately I lost my copy somehow...I have the case...but the cd is missing...that makes me very sad. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:46
Haven't heard it. I like VDGG's albums better cause they are more agressive and weird musically. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:47
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I love Gog/Magog. A truly bad epic is "Rockpommel's Land" by Grobschnitt. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:47
I actually love that epic, as I love almost of The Flower Kings epics, but I have to say, its just not up to par as some other TFK epics such as Stardust We Are, Garden of Dreams, Unfold the Future, etc. |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:51
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pink floyd - atom heart mother (what were they
smoking) rush - fountains of lamneth (brave first effort at the form but well dodgy) yes - all of tales from topographic oceans (a good 15 minutes expanded to a turgid 60 or so) |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:52
I would normally agree with you but A Louse Is Not A Home is just as aggressive as anything VdGG has put out...which is on Silent Corner and The Empty Stage....it is also a free mp3 download right off this site if you're curious....absolutely mind blowing. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:54
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Oh...thanks for reminding me of this big pile of manure.....yuk! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:55
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:56
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Rockpommel's Land by Grosssh*t is absolutely,laughable tripe. TFTO -of course and yes,I agree about Fountains Of Lamneth. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:58
And Hammil solo can be A LOT weirder than Van der Graaf Generator. Listen to "The Fall of the House of Usher" or "Loops and Reels", for example. "In Camera" is a good example too. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:58
| Agree with Tales From Topographic Oceans and The Flower Kings' A Love Supreme. |
Posted By: CaincelaOreinim
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:59
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As of now I agree with Floyd's AHM...Disagree with Tales as I like all the material on it. And can you really consider tracks like Lateralus and Ticks and Leeches Tool's epics? If anything, their epic at this point is Resolution (Disposistion:Reflection:Triad) and it's one of my favorites from them...I thought it was something like past the 15 min. mark deemable as an "epic". But whatever, an epic is whatever an epic is to you. Also, I'm still not too keen on Octavarium, there's something about it that's missing...a center of sorts. It almost suffers from an Opeth like syndrome of cut and copying riffs (note: I am a fan of Opeth) to make a seemingly cohesive whole. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:59
*tuts* One of the only Pink Floyd tracks I truly truly love!! I guess I really don't understand these chaps... As for bad epics... surely side two of Topographic Oceans really takes the biscuit? A sticky, ugly mess of an epic that's not only exhausting but underwhelming to the point of insignificance. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:00
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There are 2 editions of "The Fall of the House of Usher". Hammil
removed all percussion from the 2nd edition to really make it sound
like an opera.
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:02
Blimey! I'd forgotten about ELP their whole career was epically awful.... 
|
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:03
I would define Third Eye by Tool an epic as well, which is awesome. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:04
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I know it's not an epic, but "Through her eyes" from SFAM with Dream Theater is 6 minutes with torture!!! I hate the melody, it sounds like music from a silly pop album! Ugh!
|
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:04
Well I like Tarkus but KarnEvil 9 is VERY over-rated |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:08
i think KE9 is fantastic! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:11
Well I think it's rubbish. Come on everyone, join in! We could keep this up for days!  |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:11
And I love it |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:24
Agree. For me it's an epic of torture and cheese My other suggestions: UFO - 'Star Storm' (from their second album, a prog effort) - bland drumming, unimaginative solos, riffs devoid of any energy. Refugee - 'Grand Canyon' and 'Credo' - neither aggressive nor lyrical, nor eccentric. I'm very surprised this band is all five stars in the archives. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
.Posted By: The Letter M
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:32
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"The Fountain Of Lamneth" (singular, not plural "Fountains"), is a good piece, IMO. Although as a whole, it lacks the cohesiveness of 2112, it's got greatness in it's parts (the guitar solo in "No One At The Bridge" is an amazing example). It's a good first step for Rush, but it's not too terrible, I think. It took me a bit to get into it and understand it better, but now it's one of my favorite side-long epics!
-Marc. ------------- I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:34
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singular not singural |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:37
hmm the first 30 seconds of KE9 are good..... actually no they're not |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 14:40
hey leave that guy alone!! didurals and narpulets is cool
|
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 15:15
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I'm a Rush fan but the first time I listened to 2112 I couldn't believe what I heard. "Overture" and "Temples of Syrinx" are good but the rest is just a lousy, incoherent pile of musical mediocrity and second-rate melodies. For me 2112 is definitely one of the most overrated epics ever. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 15:17
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WHAT!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 15:19
 ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:22
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I love Tales, all 4 sides! KE9: almost any minute of it is just fantastic. Floyd's Atom Heart Mother doesn't deserve to be bashed, I guess... I guess most '90s and '00's bands don't know how to make an epic anymore. It's like knowledge that has expired, like the embalming of the ancient Egyptian mummies. Relics from a distant age. Nowadays it's too much cut and paste. Too many fragments, too little unifying conceptual material. Learn from ye olde masters, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Procol etc. O tempora, o mores... |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:30
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TFTO - I love the album, but not every second is up to the same standard. KE9 - One of the best epics ever made. Love Supreme - LOVE this song. FANTASTIC epic. Just getting my point out there on some of the songs you all mentioned. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:31
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Couldn't have explained any better.Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:40
Mekanik Destruktiw KommandöhNow there's an epic that is truly great.------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:41
DT's "A Change of Seasons" is surprisingly coherent, the dramaturgy "works". Oh, and don't forget Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood" if that can be regarded as one single epic track. I think it's a masterpiece of rock dramaturgy and structure that no other classic epic can keep up with (despite its rather keyboard heavy overall sound). ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:46
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"Misplaced Childhood" is Marillion's decline from mediocre to unbearable. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:53
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Well, ok, that's a difference of musical tastes but you can't attack an epic that works almost as an audio movie for being badly structured or something like that. Musical structures/coherence was the tenor of the post. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:56
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Side 3 of Topographic Oceans is unlistenable, even to this diehard Yes fan.
------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:58
Misplaced Childhood is '80's: I wasn't talking about that one, and I like it a lot. Not prog like the early '70's masters, but still very good. I agree about A Change Of Seasons too: I won't deny that some good epics are still being made from time to time, and A Change Of Seasons is very coherent! |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 16:59
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Actually your math is off. The album totals about 80 minutes (fact). Of that, I'd say Side1: 7 minutes Side2: 10 minutes (last 10 minutes great) Side3: 3 minutes Side4: 10 minutes (first 5 minutes great) Total of 30 minutes is great or acceptable ------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 17:00
How can you say that? It's the best side! Anderson and Squire both love it. The first 10 minutes is a bit slow, but last 12 are great! ------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 17:03
Ah, ok, sorry, I thought you were referring to anything released after the 'classic era'. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 18:36
Why thank you |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 18:40
Sorry, I can PROVE that you are wrong! I thinks that "The Ancient" is one of the best music-pieces that has ever been recorded by man. I am serious! I enjoy it and love it VERY MUCH! That's the evidence |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 18:42
| Kirklott: Do you like Progressive Rock? This is not a rude or ironic question, but a polite and serious one! |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 18:51
How dare You!!!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
|
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 18:52
| Nop, it does not. I find some Poppy Rush or Yes to be very interesting. Through Her Eyes is very very very good for Pop... |
Posted By: King Crimson
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 19:24
| Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother. It's so boring. |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 19:47
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Flowerchild, do you like good progressive rock? This is not a rude or ironic question, but a polite and serious one! ------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 19:49
| What is GOOD Progressive Rock? I don't believe there is such a thing.... |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 19:50
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I'm surprised Karn Evil 9 is getting dissed. I mean, that's a serendipitous yet coherent epic adventure that spans space and time.
------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 19:54
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Well of course there's good progressive rock (or why do we all buy prog albums, post this board, etc.?). I think what you're saying is that you can't argue good taste, in the same way you can't argue which flavor of ice cream is best. Agreed.
------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: undefinability
Date Posted: June 04 2005 at 20:35
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Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull, definitely. I never liked that song. ------------- "Don't listen to me." |
Posted By: Aerosol Grey
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 01:59
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Through Her Eyes has to be among the worst songs on albums that I own. Anytime it comes on I get embarassed even if I'm in a room by myself. ------------- Prog is the new punk, becuase kids who shop at Hot Topic don't know Bill Bruford is God. |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 03:01
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worst prog epics:
------------- 
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Posted By: dalt99
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 03:41
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TFTO by Yes, Atom Heart Mother by Pink Floyd, the Dream Theaters epics, Love Supreme by The Flower Kings and Karn Evil 9 by ELP are all HORRIBLE and cannot be enjoyed for an instant! Yet, I just can't get enough of them because they are all flawless! I listen to each song in succession at least once a day however I only like bits and pieces of each one because they are just not good all the way through!
That should please, anger or confuse everyone equally |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 08:13
My God... there you go again! Dismissing an ENTIRE subgenre of prog in a blase fashion which shows you blatantly haven't explored it very deeply at all. STOP BEING SO RELENTLESSLY NEGATIVE. START JUSTIFYING YOUR STATEMENTS.  |
Posted By: Aerosol Grey
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 08:48
As if justifiying a statement that essentially states the entire recorded output of Kraftwerk, Can, Faust, Neu and Tangerine Dream sounds EXACTLY the same could ever possibly be done. ------------- Prog is the new punk, becuase kids who shop at Hot Topic don't know Bill Bruford is God. |
Posted By: Leo Karmev
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 10:32
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I probably upset a lot of people with this one, but i just hate Supper's ready ------------- Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 10:35
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Really? Wow. I didn't think that that song was capable of being disliked. |
Posted By: JCProg
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 10:36
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I hate it when supper's not ready!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 12:55
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A Gap In The Night by The Tangent. Ridiculous vocals, meaningless solos, no great melodies. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 13:22
It is. It really really is. |
Posted By: progaeopteryx
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 13:46
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I think the following were bad, or at least uninteresting...
I don't agree about Rockpommel's Land. I like that one. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 13:49
Absolutely ... I think it is uninspired and desperately trying to sound like a Neal Morse song. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
|
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 16:18
| Didn't listen to FTM long enough to realise it was an epic. It would have been an epic to listen to it all the way through. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 19:40
Well put! DT should stay away from writing those kinds of songs, becasue they're never good. But everything else the do is pretty awesome. |
Posted By: Gabrielpenteado
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 19:52
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uhm i got to say, about the karn evil 9, i just like the second part of it, and not that much...
altough i still cant seem to like tarkus, but let us all calm down, cos all the replys here are merely OPINIONS i also find 2112 way overrated, altough i still like it very much, but i still hold a great grudge ainst cygnus X-1. tool has also been named, and i also dont like them as well and almost all of DT's ToT songs are despiteful |
Posted By: Mr. Floyd
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 20:52
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I hate Through her eyes too !! It's horrible !! And the worst part of it is the fact that's in Scenes From A Memory !! A total masterpice with a giant stain on it's face !! It does sound like a song taken from a silly pop album. jajaja About Karn Evil 9 ... I like all of it except the las 2 or 3 minutes of the 3rd impression ! And 2112, only till the temples of syrinx. jejeje |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 21:20
Do you not like it, Trouserpress? |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 21:32
I do not like it. |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:07
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KE9 was the best thing ELP ever wrote Supper's ready is awesome
TFTO doesn't have a single good melody through the whole 80 minutes but some of the playing is at least interesting particularly on the 1st and 3rd sides. Thick as a Brick is a great favorite of mine but I have to admit it did seem to run out of ideas half way through. A passion Play I never could get into
Personally I think Mike Oldfield wrote some excellent epics. Crisis I am a great fan of although he doesn't seem to be much in vogue here
Sometimes length represents a great expansion of ideas ( i.e The Gates of Delirium ) and sometimes it is a disguise for a lack of quality material so I consider it on a case by case basis. ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: Mr. Floyd
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:10
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I hate Quasimodo of Quaterna Requiem (Brazilian prog rock) |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:12
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Oh yeah...I forgot one really large stinker....Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast off of Atom Heart Mother....talking about filler and lack of ideas That whole lp is just a stinker |
Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:20
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Rockpommel's Land bad??? That's one of my favorite tracks! Bad epics: 2112, The epic from New Trolls Concerto Grosso 1 ------------- "Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?" "Progressive.... yeah, that's it..." |
Posted By: Mr. Floyd
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:22
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Don't like the epic from Concerto Grosso Nº1. You're a sick man ! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 05 2005 at 22:51
S'not really an epic though - just an unpretentious jam. Rockpommel's Land however... ugh! |