Prog's Most Poorly Told Narrative?
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Topic: Prog's Most Poorly Told Narrative?
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Prog's Most Poorly Told Narrative?
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:07
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(This is no indication of the music being bad btw, I loved Coheed And Cambria's second and third narrative.)
Many concept albums have a story with characters and settings and events that happen. The degree to which the story is made explicit varies wildly from literal narrative lyrics with sound effects and voices to something like Coheed And Cambria's Amory Wars cycle which has a very detailed story yet basically gives you not the slightest indication of it in the music itself. I suppose this has been done on purpose, Sanchez writing lyrics that suggest the emotional states of character in the story rather than making any attempt to depict the action but it's still a huge failure as narrative and makes the story absolutely irrelevant in my eyes.
I used to really care about the narratives of concept albums but as I've gotten older I've started to care less and less and just focus on the music.
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Replies:
Posted By: TheOppenheimer
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:33
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there's music and music. sometimes you have to focus on the narrative, sometimes on the singing, sometimes on the music, sometimes on the mood/ambient. as far as music as an art goes, its impossible to tell whether one piece is better than other. you may happen to find a lot of people disliking something, but it means almost nothing. in my opinion, i find coheed and cambria a bit far from prog, and i dont like their songs. on the other hand, i love the narratives of rush and early yes. ------------- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:34
| I think Rockpommel's Land is probably the worst prog narrative ever |
Posted By: Isa
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 22:48
I'm sure there's many worse out there. That one's pretty horrible though! 
------------- The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:19
You mean 2112? You mean AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH? You mean, Neil "Let's butcher contemporary philosophy" Peart? Come on, buddy!  |
TheOppenheimer wrote:Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:23
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Oh yah, love me some Jesus Christ Superstar. Wait, this is for ass narratives! How about anything from Yes or Rush. My money is put on 2112, but everything from Farewell to Kings irks me. Tarkus? Most classic 70's prog bands' narratives make me giggle. |
Posted By: InClouds
Date Posted: August 11 2010 at 23:26
Wow, you really hate 2112, don't you? And Rush in general, it seems. Just wondering, is it just the lyrics or do you dislike the music as well?
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 06:50
Tarkus, hmm. Never quite been able to relate the lyrics to the cover art.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 06:54
Thats because there is no realtion. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 07:33
that would explain it
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 07:44
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It's tough to concentrate on storytelling when your main interest is the music. You need basic music to support a strong story line. Like in Bob Dylan's mid 70s albums. The Lamb is a happy exception, I think (but it still gets a lot of flack because many people don't like the short song lengths and sonic experiments they've tried in order to support the narration). |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 08:56
Yeah, the music, too. Hey, I like side one of Moving Pictures! But that's about it. I'm allergic to their brand of heavy rock. None of it makes me heart move, bub. I could never cry to something like 'closer to the heart'. |
Posted By: Mr. Maestro
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:12
Rush isn't supposed to make you cry.
 ------------- "I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...." |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:15
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Tommy and Quadrephenia are pretty poor. The stories seem to get confusing at the end, 2112 however is very good. A story simply told. The Lamb is also very good. You klnow exactly whats happening.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:16
Rush is one of my favourite bands, but I can't say 2112 is a very strong album lyrically or musically, especially if compared to Hemispheres or Permanent Waves. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:28
Wait a sec, though. Isn't Permanent waves the one with Jacob's Ladder? The clouds prepare for battle In the dark and brooding silence Bruised and sullen storm clouds Have the light of day obscured Looming low and ominous In twilight premature Thunder heads are rumbling In a distant overture... All at once, the clouds are parted Light streams down in bright unbroken beams... Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams..." You're telling me THIS is good poetry?  |
Posted By: Mr. Maestro
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:29
Yes, that is good poetry. Good enough for me, at least.
------------- "I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...." |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:32
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Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:47
To be fair, Rand's philosophy pretty much comes pre-butchered.  ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:51
Yeah, her philosophy might suck wrinkled teat, but I don't read her for her philosophy, I read her for her plots. Just like I don't listen to Rush for their lyrics, I don't listen to Rush at all. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 11:55
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Mars Volta's Frances the Mute is supposedly a narrative, but I can barely even understand what he's saying and reading the lyrics doesn't give you much. Don't get me wrong, I think the album's brilliant, but as a narrative it doesn't really come through. ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 12:00
Yup. ------------- |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 16:41
| And what about The Story of The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles? |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 12 2010 at 17:37
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One Outside by David Bowie was one I invested a bit of time in trying to unravel before concluding that it was a lot of rubbish.
And yes, The Story Of The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles. I love A Passion Play, absolutely excellent album, but like almost everyone else I do not like TSOTHWLHS as we Tull afficionadoes are so fond of calling it, just rolls of the tongue. However i think it is integral to the album, helping to poise it on the knife edge of humour and darkness. There's something very whimsical about it but also a bit dark and doubtful due to its context.
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 00:41
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Opeth - Still Life the music: 4.5 stars the lyrics: 3.0 stars. It's IMPOSSIBLE to make out the story just by looking at the lyrics. There are quite a few theories but none of them feels right. I mean the music is ridiculously epic, but the story is lame. ------------- 
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Posted By: ten years after
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:32
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Dark Side of the Moon is the most famous concept album ever. But can anyone say exactly what is it's concept?
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:39
Madness.....getting old.....life. Its not a concept album really.......well it kind of is....its just a very lose concept...more a themed album really.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:42
| It's a concept album indeed, but concept does not necessarily imply narration. In this case it's just a exceptional consistency of the conceptual themes throughout the whole album. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:45
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^if you have to disagree with me...could you wait a couple of posts? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:47
^ I'm not disagreeing, on the contrary I agree and I tried to make it a bit more clear. 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 07:51
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^ My bad. I was concentrating more on..... Snow Dog......."Its more of a themed album really" Harmonium......."It's a concept album indeed" But yes....I see now thats its basically agreement. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 08:21
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A mild growl at Hemispheres now. Aside from the banal Greek mythology references, it kills any of the vaguely intriguing mystery of Book I and writes a simple, slightly moralistic plot and tedious conclusion around an original piece of writing that bears almost no relation to it. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 08:33
I thought I was the only one who did that. ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: August 13 2010 at 08:44
| "Tarkus" (the song). The lyrics seem to have almost nothing to do with what's told through the album art. |
Posted By: oddiyo
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 00:16
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I love Pink Floyd, but, over time "The Wall" is an album I enjoy less and less. Apart from some great songs, the whole thing isn't so accessible. I realized years later it was kind of a "poor man's Tommy". Even "Tommy" itself, is no better... overlong and not enough high-points for my taste. I prefer the excellent "S.F. Sorrow" by the Pretty Things. It still sounds fresh and exciting 40 years on. ------------- CLH |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 05:49
| I actually agree with you there. When I was 15 The Wall was stunning, five stars, yet I'd only give it four now. Waters' moaning is a mind-blowing revelation to someone who didn't know you could be negative in songs but when you listen to more stuff it starts to get a bit old. |
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 06:45
Agreed. It took the ingenuity of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sinfield - Peter Sinfield to bring some intrigue to an ELP narrative with Karn Evil 9, a story of computers enslaving mankind in the future. And as we sit at our computers for hours daily, and prefer email and texting to vocal conversation, I can't help but wonder if he didn't hit the nail on the head.
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 06:55
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Words in music are meaningless, nothing more than a vehicle for the vocal instrument. If you want good literature, visit your local library. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 06:57
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it as relates to this topic, in my opinion. The narrative is well told and the moral is easy to understand. And who among us doesn't reference children's fables in our adult lives from time to time? Sour grapes? Slow and steady wins the race? How about mind your own business or you might end up looking foolish? (Not you, Text. You're a scholar amongst proggies.
) The Peter and the Wolf -style music and the Monty Python-esque humor are a brilliant combination. Kudos to you, Jeffrey! |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 07:09
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The Snow Goose!
The Mars Voltas first two albums are great musically, but when you have to download the story from Goldenlab Records website just to understand the narative, you know there's something wrong there.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 12:17
Yeah. No armadillo tanks. Makes me cry.  |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: August 17 2010 at 12:21
Wait, I thought the tankadillo was the Tarkus! ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 14:17
Too right, my friend. Too right! Perhaps unlistenable, to boot.
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