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tori amos

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70299
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Topic: tori amos
Posted By: sydbarrett2010
Subject: tori amos
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 07:00
i wanna know if tori amos is a prog artist so i can decide whether download it or not



Replies:
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 09:04
Proggy enough for me.  I know her work well.  What were you interested in?

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 10:32
Prog enough to be on the archives, apparently. 

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755
I am on the fence.  Not quite the real McCoy in my opinion, but much closer than there than so many other additions, so I am not complaining.  Besides, she's one of my favourites anyway.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 11:25
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Prog enough to be on the archives, apparently. 

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755
I am on the fence.  Not quite the real McCoy in my opinion, but much closer than there than so many other additions, so I am not complaining.  Besides, she's one of my favourites anyway.

When the hell did that happen?  I don't think I was paying attention.Embarrassed


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 11:29
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Prog enough to be on the archives, apparently. 

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755
I am on the fence.  Not quite the real McCoy in my opinion, but much closer than there than so many other additions, so I am not complaining.  Besides, she's one of my favourites anyway.

When the hell did that happen?  I don't think I was paying attention.Embarrassed


Damn, it's your team too, Slart!  LOL


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 11:30
Originally posted by sydbarrett2010 sydbarrett2010 wrote:

i wanna know if tori amos is a prog artist so i can decide whether download it or not

she is not prog, she plays sort of art-pop, just like Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel.
But you shouldn't chose your artists according to their level of progginess...


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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 12:13

(next time Toto will find its place as well i will pray to God if I have to) Cry



Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 13:01
^
TOTO is AOR, not art-pop.
However, given that other AOR acts like Asia, John Wetton, Magnum, GTR, or 3, are in PA's database, there is a chance they will be added one day...


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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 16:50
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Prog enough to be on the archives, apparently. 

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=5755
I am on the fence.  Not quite the real McCoy in my opinion, but much closer than there than so many other additions, so I am not complaining.  Besides, she's one of my favourites anyway.

When the hell did that happen?  I don't think I was paying attention.Embarrassed


Damn, it's your team too, Slart!  LOL

Yeah I know it's my team but I've been a total slacker lately. EmbarrassedLOL


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 16:55
Woah, Tori's here?  Nice!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 16:57
lol an Eminem cover on PA.

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Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 16:59
Some considered her the next Kate Bush (who is on this site). Others may disagree with that vehemently, but the two have similar attributes.


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 17:04
Kind of. When I heard her for the first time, she reminded me of Kate Bush indeed. Little Earthquakes is a great album with a few masterpiece tracks. I'm glad somehow that she is in PA now.
 
If I may put in another nomination - off topic: Velvet Underground for proto-prog.


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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 19:49
lets open the floodgate mohahahahaaa


Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 20:00
Good to see her on PA; Winter is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. Great song writer.

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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 21:55
She got added pretty quietly. I like having her here though.
 
"Is she prog because if she is I'd better download her" is a silly OP though. Who cares if she's prog? (When it comes to "should I listen to her?", not "should she be on PA?".) Is she good is the question and the answer is yes.


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 22:57
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

lets open the floodgate mohahahahaaa


The floodgates were opened when bands like Nightwish and Rhapsody of Fire were added.  At least, Tori is progressive in some sense and one of the better songwriters from the 90s scene.


Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 00:49

They should add Christopher Cross for April Fool's.



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 02:48
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

They should add Christopher Cross for April Fool's.

 
Sex Pistols pleaseTongue


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:03
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

They should add Christopher Cross for April Fool's.

 
Sex Pistols pleaseTongue

Oh no, the site went to hell when we added NIN. LOL

If you knew her music like I do you wouldn't even be questioning the addition.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:07
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:



If you knew her music like I do you wouldn't even be questioning the addition.


Indeed!  Why do pop-based additions get so much flak, there are so many additions on this site that aren't strictly prog, in what way is Tori less 'legitimate' than them?  It's well that the addition seems to have taken place quietly.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:14
Having some popular success doesn't necessarily make your music pop...Wink 


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:17
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Having some popular success doesn't necessarily make your music pop...Wink 


Well, it's essentially what I would call pop. Having said that, I haven't gone beyond From the Choirgirl Hotel and maybe her style is radically different and far more proggy after that, wouldn't know.  Could be put under piano rock, some sorta art rock too.   It's not full blown prog, but not a whole lot 90s onwards is, anyway, outside Avant/RIO.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:22
Her addition was a surprise for me.  I advocated for it.  She can play keyboards as good as any of the top officially prog keyboardists.  Excellent lyricist as well.  

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:23
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

She can play keyboards as good as any of the top officially prog keyboardists.   


My favourite from the 90s alongside Johnny Greenwood actually.  The metal crowd play keyboard like it's guitar, not something that's to my liking. 


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 03:27
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

She can play keyboards as good as any of the top officially prog keyboardists.   


My favourite from the 90s alongside Johnny Greenwood actually.  The metal crowd play keyboard like it's guitar, not something that's to my liking. 

Eh, no surprise I'm a big Radiohead fan now. LOL


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 15 2010 at 06:03
She's a more comfortable fit than Nine Inch Nails and they got in before her.


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 07:22
I don't want to compare her with other artists on this site. Looking at her alone, I don't think she's more prog than Susanne Vega or Sheryl Crow and personally I like them two more than Tori Amos.

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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 09:39
Originally posted by CinemaZebra CinemaZebra wrote:

lol an Eminem cover on PA.


Marillion covered Britney Spears. It's on here. It's also decent.

Anyway, Tori Never went as prog as Kate Bush, and even Kate never went very prog except for parts of Hounds of Love and Aerial.


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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 09:39
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

She's a more comfortable fit than Nine Inch Nails and they got in before her.


Please tell me you're lying.


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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 09:47
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

She's a more comfortable fit than Nine Inch Nails and they got in before her.


Please tell me you're lying.

I know them both well and I would have put Tori in before NIN.  Though they are both on the fringe of prog, I think they are both worthy inclusions.  Controversiality was to be expected with both of them.  So, if you like them and/or know the music, review, if you don't, ignore.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 15:27
Oh my goodness. Liking Sheryl Crow more than Tori Amos.
 
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
 
*starts collection for Octopus' visit to the ear doctor*


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:30
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Oh my goodness. Liking Sheryl Crow more than Tori Amos.
 
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
 
*starts collection for Octopus' visit to the ear doctor*
At least she is nice....


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:35
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by CinemaZebra CinemaZebra wrote:

lol an Eminem cover on PA.


Marillion covered Britney Spears. It's on here. It's also decent.
I liked the original better.


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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:41
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

She's a more comfortable fit than Nine Inch Nails and they got in before her.


Please tell me you're lying.

I know them both well and I would have put Tori in before NIN.  Though they are both on the fringe of prog, I think they are both worthy inclusions.  Controversiality was to be expected with both of them.  So, if you like them and/or know the music, review, if you don't, ignore.


I so wish you guys would approve Laurie Anderson (to my ears, she has a much stronger case).  I looked into Tori Amos music before (maybe not enough, but I followed song suggestions of those who wanted her in) and I was left under-impressed for PA inclusion.  If she were quirkier, I'd be more accepting. Speaking of female artists, I would have sooner seen Bjork in. I'm not saying the team got it wrong, of course, just that my impressions based on limited listening left me thinking that she was no more than Related at best.


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:45
Laurie Anderson and Carla Bley. They should have a dedicated sub-genre. The problem is with "rock". I never heard anything of Laurie Anderson that can be called Rock. A bit more with Carla Bley.  Smile

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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:57
Laurie isn't conventional rock.  If being conventional "rock' is all that counts then there are a lot of artists who should be tossed out.
What makes prog great is the music that doesn't fit neatly in the box.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 16:58
^ Edit, you said it so much better, not conventional rock (hadn't read you response when I wrote the following paragraphs).  And in a way, I see progressive rock as a progression away from rock (moving farther from the rock lexicon, and we have embraced much music at PA that people would not generally consider rock -- but I can stile place it in the greater rock universe).  Prog should be, I think, in large part about getting away from conventions.

I know this is a progressive rock site, but rock is not really essential (can be rock-related, even in a fairly loose manner). I think Laurie  Anderson has music that can be compared to Krautrock artists, and has similarities to music in Electronic. I think Crossover would suit her well for her art pop approach. Anyway, to my ears, she has music that comes closse enough to rock universe to me.

Just posting a couple of ones I like from different albums for those that don't know her (Big Science, in particular, was a favourite album of mine in the 80s, and it still speaks to me).






Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:26
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

  If she were quirkier, I'd be more accepting. 

Quirkiness is not a criterion at all, Tori is quirkier than Strawbs that way.  

Quote Laurie isn't conventional rock.  If being conventional "rock' is all that counts then there are a lot of artists who should be tossed out.

Yes.  Actually, Tori is not rock, at least not the first four albums, unless we use a very liberal definition.  I wonder why Stevie Wonder was rejected now.  Confused  Maybe, it's a necessary precondition that a pop artist should have a lot of cool quotient riding on him and not  be mega-popular?  Or, the Motown label is so abhorrent?  


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:27
^ Or maybe those who tried the music didn't find it progressive?


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:30
In that case, how exactly is Tori more progressive than Stevie Wonder?  


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:30
Why do you ask me?


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:32
I am not asking you in particular...but there has to be a sound reason for every addition and rejection.  What is the point of avoiding the question?


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:34
I don't know what were the progressive aspects that stood for Tori's addition, you'll have to ask the Crossover guys for that.

I simply responded to your derogatory remarks about Stevie Wonder's suggestion.


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:34
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I am not asking you in particular...but there has to be a sound reason for every addition and rejection.  What is the point of avoiding the question?
Has Stevie Wonder been rejected previously?

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:35
I think it's the level of seriousness/strangeness in Amos that makes things feel a lot more arty whereas Wonder doesn't have that vibe.


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:37
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



I simply responded to your derogatory remarks about Stevie Wonder's suggestion.

They are nevertheless not very different from the outcry at the very suggestion at his name, often accompanied by emoticons like  Dead.  


Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Has Stevie Wonder been rejected previously?

I believe so, Alitaire had suggested him and the proposal was a non starter.

Quote I think it's the level of seriousness/strangeness in Amos that makes things feel a lot more arty whereas Wonder doesn't have that vibe.

In short, nothing much to do with the music.   Seriousness/strangeness are not progressive qualities by themselves.  


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:39
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



I simply responded to your derogatory remarks about Stevie Wonder's suggestion.

They are nevertheless not very different from the outcry at the very suggestion at his name, often accompanied by emoticons like  Dead.  


That has nothing to do with band evaluations. Lots of band were added despite of tons of DeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDead


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:40
Can we please keep the Stevie Wonder issue in said thread then and all other related artists too. Thanks

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:41
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:



I simply responded to your derogatory remarks about Stevie Wonder's suggestion.

They are nevertheless not very different from the outcry at the very suggestion at his name, often accompanied by emoticons like  Dead.  


That has nothing to do with band evaluations. Lots of band were added despite of tons of DeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDead

I should hope so.  Or maybe the reason is what Textbook gave, but that's not a very convincing one either.  One argument that was forwarded against Stevie, though not specifically attributed as the reason, by a Collab/Admin was that prog rock is about ROCK ultimately.  Well, then, how is Tori Amos more rock than All Day Sucker?   Speaking of seriousness, Visions is as serious as any Tori Amos song.  


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 16 2010 at 20:42
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Can we please keep the Stevie Wonder issue in said thread then and all other related artists too. Thanks

Ok.



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