Tales From Topographic Oceans
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7085
Printed Date: April 27 2024 at 04:09
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Topic: Tales From Topographic Oceans
Posted By: Wormboy
Subject: Tales From Topographic Oceans
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 15:09
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OK, I'm new here, and perhaps this question has been digested ad nauseum. So please bear with me. Has anyone else have the experience that Yes' "Close to the Edge" is absolutely an incredible achievment, and man, how well can a band work together towards a common goal, and then feel like they're falling off a cliff when they listen to "Tales From Topographic Oceans," which was the next studio album from Yes? I listen to this album, and my take home message is "Tales from Coprophagic Oceans." How can you go from so good to so bad in ONE studio album, with only one person leaving (and was Bruford that essential to the "Edge" sound? Dunno, maybe he was. Certainly I never liked White's rockier style as much). Now, I know that part of this is subjective, obviously. There is a lot of amazing musicianship on "Tales," and there are many different points where I say, "man, that is a cool riff," or "I really like that groove, how creative." There are some great melodic lines here. But for most of it, the word that springs to mind is BOMBASTIC. It's like Yes took on and conquered a totally ambitious project with "Close to the Edge," then totally let it go to their heads on Tales. They went off the deep end. And in so many ways! Let's see if I can be specific. First, the lyrics. Now, let me say up front that Jon Anderson has always been my least favorite part of Yes. But I see his merit, and I even like the kind of "meaning but no meaning" of many of his lyrics. But the totally trippy flower child mysticism of much of "Tales" seems off the deep end to me. "Nous Somme Du Soleil?" Right, peace man. But I can't believe he followed this up with "we love when we play." Well, I USED to love when you play. :( Like I said, there is amazing musicianship here. But so disjointed! It's like everybody in the band it trying to be a total virtuouso, and is trying to feature themselves to the loss of the whole. In spite of the promise of some spiritual compositional unity, many of the songs seem to wander, like they are a collection of cool riffs. They lack the unity and movement of "Close to the Edge," where even diverse styles work together as a compositional whole. So, compositionally it feels to me like Anderson and Howe wrote an album and invited the rest of the band to fill in their parts, with some solos to satisfy their egos. "Close to the Edge" felt like an album where the whole band worked together for a long time to create a harmonious whole. In other words, "Tales" feels like a recent King Crimson album--"we all kick butt so let's throw together a cool album where we each wrote different songs, and we'll get some cool fills to satisfy each member." And let me just say that I want to take Steve Howe's pedal steel guitar from the 4th track (album side) and freakin feed it to him. Look, Steve. We all know that you are king-god guitarist, but w**king off on the pedal steel for several minutes is not attractive. Just because you CAN do something does not mean it SHOULD be done. In fact, this last should be the motto for the entire album. So much of this is ideas that should have been tossed in the garbage heap. But Howe's endless, self-indulgent pedal steel howling takes the cake, and is emblematic of the problem with the whole album. Finally, I think ambitious, 20 minute compositions are a good thing. Really, I do. But when you have 4 such tracks, and nothing else, on a double album, perhaps you need to reflect a bit, hmm? Perhaps you are being over-ambitious, egocentric, FREAKIN STUPID? Now, in general I like progressive rock. I'm a big fan of most of the major classic 70s giants, and some minor ones as well. I love yes, and really enjoy many of their songs. I especially find their "golden era" to be some of the best prog rock. BUT, one of the biggest cautionary messages I see in prog rock is this: just because something can be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. And this sums up most of "Tales" for me. A lot of neat little riffs, melodies and whatnot, all tied together in one huge, messy, undigestible whole. Plus a few nauseatingly awful moments (pedal steel reprise). Thank you. I've been wanting to get that off my chest for 23 years, ever since I first bought and listened to "Tales from Topographic Oceans." Finally I found the forum for my rant. Thank you for reading. Nothing to see, move along.... |
Replies:
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:31
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Thank you. This is exactly how I feel too. They did CTTE and thought
"Well how can we top this?". Just ocassionally less is more... Edit: And the production on that album is truly awful. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:40
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"Tales from Topografic oceans" is IMO the best recorded piece of art in any genre EVER! It is in EVERY way far SUPERIOR to "Close to the edge" and I think "Close to the edge" is one of the best albums I've heard. That is how fantastic "Tales from Topografic oceans" is to myself and many with me, it's simply the ultimate progressive piece of music ever written. Can probably never become better! Thanks |
Posted By: Dreamer
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:40
I was planning to buy that album, I'm not sure if i really want to anymore
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:43
If you're not adverse to downloading music on a "try before you buy" basis then grab an mp3 of Ritual. It's the best track on the album. If that strikes you as brilliant then get it. If not then maybe have a rethink for now. If you're serious about prog you'll need it sooner or later, if only for the historic value. If you don't own at least 3 Gentle Giant albums then you've got other things to be buying first anyway.  |
Dreamer wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:44
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Please make up your own mind, friend. Don't let others scare you! With ALL respect, "Tales..." is as near the kingdom of heaven I will get in this life! I'm serious now. It is to me, like a......well...words can not describe the pleasure, happiness and joy that I feel so deep inside when I'm "within" this masterpiece. It's above all other records, IMO! This isn't just music! It's beyond that!!! ALL, IMO!!!! |
Posted By: Rex Reid
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:53
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The band tried something different with the album. Some like it, some don't. I like it. |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:58
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I'm listening to it (Revealing Science) right now on the internet radio. TFTO is a great album.. I think most of you that have problems with it, must be because you're not really Jon Anderson fans, but the music on this is lovely. Steve Howe and Chris Squire do some really lovely work on this... makes you want to chill and and enjoy life more.. and anything that does that for me.. is one hell of an album... ------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 16:59
I gotta tell ya in my earlier days of prog listening, when I was about
13 or so, TFTO was my all time favorite album. It proudly wore its
excesses on its sleeve and seemed to try and encapsulate EVERYTHING
that defined prog, distilled into one double album. But as I got older,
my tastes changed (and I became exposed to exponentially more prog) and
I just thought it was self indulgent, purile, and just confusing and
tuneless in some places. That being said, right now I feel pretty
middle of the road about it. It is not as horrible as its detractors
say; there are moments scattered throughout of high quality music,
mostly in Revealing Science and Ritual (trouserpress is right again, an
mp3 of Ritual would be a good reference for the spirit of the album). But by
the same token, it is not a classic prog album. Especially when
compared with other Yes albums around that time (CttE, Fragile (must be
Italian), and Relayer) it is unfocused and in serious need of editing.
In fact, anyone here clever with Sound Forge or something similar
should try a one CD edit of this record, would be an interesting
experiment and undoubtedly better than the original! All in all, I own it and like it, but havent listened to it in its entirety for a dozen years or so. Edit: P.S. to Dreamer: If you are a Yes fan and have already heard the essentials (CttE, Fragile, Yes Album, Relayer, GFTO) and really dig 'em then you certainly should pick it up. But for the more casual Yes listener, make sure you have all of the above first, then give it a try. Who knows, could become your favorite (but prob'ly not ).
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:02
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Please don't!!! It's would be like cutting the smile out of "Mona-Lisa" |
Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:06
Four movements - each exquisitely different, a veritable masterpiece of progressive rock........It has everything and is definately a progressive rock paradigm....... ------------- Play me my song, here it comes again |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:08
You've got it! That's the way one must look at it to get it!!! |
Posted By: Wormboy
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:09
Well, yes, it's all IMO! And yes, he should make up his own mind. Listening to some downloads before beuying is probably a good idea. Probably ttrue for all prog rock, since it's a disparate group, with finincky listeners, like me!  I agree that Ritual and the Revealing Science of God are the best two, erm, "tracks." Both have some really cool parts to them. Edit: I guess what always frustrated me is that these cool parts were never really realized. It's like the pieces were all there, but not put together quite right. I think I see what they were trying to do, but it's like looking through a fogged-over window. And keep in mind that I'm a real Yes fan. As for the four movements, yeah, I got that. I spent a lot of time meditating on this album back in the day, and I gave the whole thing a double re-listen recently. I came away now (20 years later) with the same conclusion as before. Brilliant musicians who shot too high and didn't pull together their idea. They never expressed it clearly. But, to give them credit, they do deserve respect for aiming high. BOY, did they aim high. But as my pop always said, "shoot for the fence and hit the ground, shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost," i.e. you'll never amount to much if you don't TRY. But I do think he meant for the progression from one step to the next to be in slightly smaller steps than CttE to TfTO! ;) But yes, Flowerchild, part of my problem is probably that Jon Anderson has always been my least favorite Yes member, and TfTO is a VERY Jon Anderson album. |
Posted By: jojim
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:11
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I needed a long time to digest Tales ... . But at the end (30 years
before) I was happy having gone through this process of listening. It's
not a simple album. It's not as variable and fast as CTTE. But finally
it is rewarding. It is like Fjord in Norway - deep, long and cold. But
you have to get there by feet. It will last. But just try it. Not
everyone is getting to the top. - Good luck. I saw YES live in Munich. Was tremendously impressive. But it was that time. You know? |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:14
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I love TFTO. It took me a long time before I listened to the album, because of some bad reviews. It has become one of my favourite Yes albums! I like it better than Close To The Edge. The music has more room to breathe, and there are so many great melodies on the album, and a lot of experimental, but beautiful playing. It's like stepping into another world. It's very good, I think |
.Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:16
I understand your point flowerchild, I really do. But if we were too afraid to go back and change art, then we wouldn't have the wonderful remakes of Star Wars IV-VI. Um, wait a minute... I think I just made your point for ya. But seriously, I may not be the superfan of the album that you are but I do like it. And honestly, don't you think that there are a lot of moments in there where the band is floundering between two movements during a song, fudging their way into the next melody? Or floundering DURING a song (The Ancient comes to mind)? Like I said, lotsa good stuff happening in there, but sounds like the musical equivalent of killing a fly with a shotgun. Sure it works, but not nearly as effectively and neatly as a flyswatter. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 17:17
I'm interested, Flowerchild & Swinton, how long did it take you to 'grow' into TFTO? Weere you able to get into it and understand it almost immediately, or did it take years? (This is a serious question, because I think maybe I ought to give it another go)... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 18:06
I loved it from start, never understood the critics at all, still don't. For me it was, and still is just the same as if u put the SONGS; "Close to the edge", "Gates of delerium", "Awaken" and...let's say.."Ritual" on a double-album...I hear no difference comparing those songs, never has...I really don't understand the debate at all. It's all the same fantastic Yes-music to me from "The Yes" album to "Going for the one". I think both KC and GG are harder to get. So, the answer to your question is: I loved it from the first second, almost 30 years ago and still does...perhaps even more!!! Perhaps some people think you have to "try" to love prog...well, in my case I must "try" to STAND pop... |
Posted By: Lyzarrd
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 18:51
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I think Tales is 'massive' to say the least. It is an extremely hard
album to listen to, even for seasoned prog heads like myself. I still
find it a bit over-the-top and will only listen to it on occasion. That
in no way means it isn't a good album, its just so difficult to get
into. Musically, I think the bookends to the album are very well done. In between, well after 40 minutes already it starts to sound like a giant mess (Partly why I can't get into the later Flower Kings albums). But it is prog, and well...this is pretty much as far out as your going to get with Yes and many others. Experimentation at its finest! ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies... |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:10
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TFTO= Awesome! But of course as indicated above no other Yes album comes close to Close to the Edge. I think it is definitely good, but not the best. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:15
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You have to- it's amazing! Those who don't like it can't handle it!! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:19
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:25
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It is one of the most pretentious,over-blown,ill-conceived piles of steaming cow excretia I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. Anyone who thinks it is better than CTTE is crazy in my (and Rick Wakeman's
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:31
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My, oh my....
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:36
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Tell me I'm wrong.... 1. Rick Wakeman, a member of the band and therefore highly qualified to offer an opinion,says it is rubbish. Nuff said 2. It is so much a masterpiece and better than any of their other output that Yes play it on every tour.......................I think not. As a very long term Yes fan, I would say that your view about the album is part of the minority.If you like it fine,it is still Yes when all said and done.
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:37
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In you call playing the whole of both Ritual and The Revealing as "excerpts" that is ... -------------  "Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:39
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:41
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:43
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Maybe they should have called it "Over The Edge" but I still like it.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:46
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:47
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when...... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:48
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OH, MY...oh my.....!!!
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:50
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well lets see...I've watched Yes hmmmmm maybe 30 times in the last 30 odd years.....how about you Sweet Pea? |
Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:51
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The Revealing was played during the Open Your Eyes tour . Ritual was played during both the Magnification and 35th anni' tours (Wakeman playing on the latter). ------------- "Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:52
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Oh so that's got the whole of the last 28 years covered then! |
Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:53
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Rememeber also that for around 16 of the last "25" years Steve Howe wasn't around. ------------- "Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:53
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Oh MY, oh my, oh my........
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Posted By: JMCecil
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:55
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hmm....reminds me of the scene in Amedeus where his royal dimness suggests that Mozart cut some notes because there are too many. Mozart had the perfect reply..."Which notes did you have in mind?" Or Pete Townshend being told by the record company that he had to redo Tommy because proper songs were 3 minutes 5 with a repeatable chorus. I personally think the motif of the album requires the length and loose structure. I think any short version of any of it would be terrible. This sounds like a generation X problem to me.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 19:58
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:00
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and.....................??? It really is a Jon Anderson vehicle... All I am trying to say is that if it was such a towering achievement they would have found some way to feature it more completely in the show. In fact now as I remember the album was released in 1974 so it is 31 years old!!!!!! Relatively speaking,theyve hardly played it. Did you buy it day of release? Because I did. I felt really cheated.Never really liked Relayer either. Fortunately they managed one last great album with GFTO! |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:03
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I hate Rush
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:04
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Posted By: The-Bullet
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:05
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I'm not arguing it's merits (I love it btw), I just pointed out your mistake. It was both JA and SH's "baby", so if you take the tours where both were present I don't feel it's been neglected. ------------- "Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:11
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Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:31
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A lot of people feel the way you do - Topo is a very controversial album. Yes is by far my favorite band, but to me Topo is downright mediocre. It's got about 30 minutes of good or great music watered down over 80 minutes. It was also badly produced, so I prefer the live versions such as Ritual on Yesshows which is infinitely better than the studio version. I feel other questionable albums such Drama, 90125, The Ladder, are all better. The album also caused Yes to lose two of its most popular members: Bruford (before) and Wakeman (after). Squire didn't like it much either. Finally, a word of advice to anyone collecting Yes music: if you're looking for more great 70s Yes - pick up "Keystudio," which was recorded in '96-'97 but has the classic line-up and sound, and included two AWESOME 20-minute epics that don't suck: That That Is and Mind Drive. ------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:45
I agree 100% with flowerchild. I know a lot of listeners don't like it, but I never understood that. CTTE is great, but I prefer the complexity of writing and playing Topographic Oceans. CTTE and Relayer were the 1st 2 Yes albums I heard. Then I got T-Oceans. Loved it from the beginning. The only thing that maybe should have been written better (or left off) is the 1st half of "The Ancient". 25 years later, the thrill of listening to T-Oceans has remained strong for me, while the thrill of listening to CTTE has faded. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 20:51
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I love it, long beautiful peces of music thats perfect too lisen to when you whant something soft and nice, most of the time i lisen to tales at the evening its a perfect night album to lisen to and close your eyes and dream away. But i can understand if it get to much for pople to handle. But its honestly one of my all time favorite albums. ------------- 
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Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 21:32
| I myself prefer the group NO!s "Trails From The Pornographic Lotions". Especially the cut "The Revealing Science Of Bob". The Dylan parody. |
Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 21:40
Hey Tony, who are these 2 wingnuts you got pictured here? Relatives? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 23:10
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Posted By: Sound Chaser
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 23:51
Listen to it with as open of a mind as possible first and if you like it buy it, don't form oppinions on it based on what others think. It's definatly an either love it or hate it kind of album. I happen to like it, it's nowhere near the masterpeace CTTE is but it's still a good album. |
Posted By: dalt99
Date Posted: June 06 2005 at 23:56
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I totally agree except I would change masterpeace to masterpiece Actually, I didn't like TFTO that much when I first heard it but the more I listened to prog rock, the more I liked it. I still don't think it's a masterpiece (or peace) but it's worth owning. ------------- Best of 2006 that I've heard: PFM-Stati Di Immaginazione Zenit-Surrender (Best "unknown" album) Oaksenham - Conquest of Pacific 2007: Phideaux - Doomsday Afternoon La Torre Del Alchimista - Neo |
Posted By: Rob The Good
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 00:01
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I have to say, Tales is on my 'to-do' list. It's taken me a while to pluck up the courage to go and buy it as a result of all the negative reviews. I think it may just be the thing that I'll end up loving to bits. Oh by the way, there are a few Yes mp3s to download, but interestingly neither Relayer (my favourite Yes album) and Tales are not represented in this manner. They're both quite controversial, so perhaps it may be an idea to upload some tracks to give budding Yes fans a listen! ------------- And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..." Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
Posted By: lynton samuel
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 04:41
Tales is GREAT!  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:58
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Never mind the bad reviews, what people can't handle they hate |
Posted By: firth_of_Fifth
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 06:35
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I bought this album on vinyl in Bristol in november(on my 20th seeing my ex.HA!) Yes are probably the hardest prog group to get into. I thought it was Genesis. But the only album I can listen to all the way through is close to the edge.
After reading this thread i'm going to listen to it when I get home, For the first time EVER!! ------------- http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell |
Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 07:49
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In Reply - I didn't like all of TFTO on my first listening - Circa 1980/81 - But over the years I have come to love the whole. It is Better than CTTE (although CTTE & and You and I are fantastic) - The length and complexity and the whole concept works for me ! - There is so much to be gained by listening in a darkened room with no distractions - This music is not easily accessible - It's possibly one of the hardest prog masterworks to get into....... This is about opinions - I find Wakemans' "Toby's graphic go-kart" jibes to be absurdly hypocritical since he calls it OTT self indulgence and this on the back of the brilliant but certainly over-indulgent solo albums he producesd at roughly the same time ! His gripe is probably that most of it was written by Howe/Anderson............ Toys out of pram Mr Wakeman !!!! I can understand people not liking this materpiece but I am supriised if these people are 70's Yes freaks....... ------------- Play me my song, here it comes again |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 07:51
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Tales From Topographic Oceans is the best prog album ever! if you dont like it you dont like prog, it has everything that a great prog album shuld have. Prog yust dont get any beter then TFTO! And i have never hade any problems geting in too any of yes albums it will take some lisen to understand all its greatness, but like me you shuld love it right away.
-------------
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Posted By: firth_of_Fifth
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 08:16
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I usually find that the best music is the stuff that takes a while to get into anyway. so i'm not worried.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 08:23
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It has its moments. Revealing Science of God is pretty good. I like prog rock, so it follows that I likw or at least have no problem with long tracks, but this album is twice as long as it needs to be IMO. There is lot of filling and f*cking about. It could have been condensed, infact it should have been scrapped and re-recorded in a more listernable form. Close to the Edge is better. It's a masterpiece IMO, and the best album they ever done by a long way. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 08:25
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hmmm...I'm the one who likes Gates of Delirium best among Yes long pieces. That said, I believe Close to the edge to be a far more intriguing listening experience than TFTO. Of the latter, anyway, I like very much The remembering and (the last 6 minutes of) The Ancient I must say that of the four, the one who struck me less (and in fact I can't remember the tune except for the chorus) is Ritual...I think that in 15 years I must have listened to it 3 or 4 times in all... Especially because when I come to it I'm already tired of listening...  ------------- A flower? 
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Posted By: Wormboy
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 14:16
One star for each part is about right... Great musicianship and composition isn't worth much if you can't pull it together and produce a coherent whole. |
Posted By: Wormboy
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 14:28
And you don't find this to be a little condescending?
Well, if you include bad production values, sloppy composition and inability to transition convincing between themes "everything that a great prog album shuld have," then perhaps I should stop listening to prog....
I'm into most of the Yes albums, at least up to GFTO. And I've
given it plenty of listens. I come away with the same impression:
that it was an admirably ambitious project that they couldn't pull off. Look at it this way: CTTE supposedly took a hugely long period of
rehearsals to get together. TFTO, a MUCH more ambitious album,
took far less rehearsing? Something is wrong here... |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 17:40
No,they appear in the final installment of Star Wars. The are the bastard offspring from an illicit union between Amidala and Jar Jar Binks!
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Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 11:15
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One afternoon while I was (not sober), I heard The Ancients-Giants Under the Sun on Internet radio. I was hooked after that. Revealing Science and Ritual are magnificent tracks. The other 2 each have their strong sections as well. It helps if you sing along with Jon in the first track to get you going. ------------- ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati |
Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: June 12 2005 at 11:15
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...but in all honesty... The Gates of Delirium is my top Yes track. ------------- ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 13 2005 at 05:57
Hey! Looks like I'm not alone in this world! Listen your friends have been broken They tell us of your poison Now we know Kill them give them as they give us Slay them burn their childrens laughter On to hell strangely non-Anderson-like lyrics, aren't they? ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 00:56
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Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: June 16 2005 at 20:08
Agreed. ------------- 
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Posted By: Wormboy
Date Posted: June 17 2005 at 10:20
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Sometimes I think that many devotees of progressive rock are fairly
non-discriminating in some ways; the more experimental an album is, the
better it is. By this standard, TFTO is indeed one of the
greatest albums ever, because there is a lot of experimentalism and
novelty in there, that's for sure. But that ignores that it has arguably the worst production/engineering of any Yes album (other than the beginning two). It also ignores the frequent clumsy transitions between themes or sections in songs. It also ignores that there are long sections that ramble on for FAR too long, and some themes that are frankly substandard are caried to their full, and unfortunate, fruition. Add to this that there is an excessive amount of what I like to call "w**king," primarily by Steve Howe (witness his interminable pedal steel "solo" on "Ritual." My God.). In general, while the lyrical conept of the album is innovative and intersting, the specifics of the lyrics often fall flat (witness my "Nous somme du soleil/we love when we play" comments in the lead off post.) So if what floats your boat is original concepts and sheer compositional balls, then I'll grant you TFTO as a masterpiece. If you ask that bands execute their brilliant ideas well, like I do, then you'll look at Tales as a clumsy face-plant. In other words, brilliance ain't worth crap if it is clumsily executed. My gut feeling is that Yes got far too ambitious after CTTE. This is not necessarily a bad thing, if they had put the time and work into TFTO that they put into CTTE. But TFTO contains twice the amount of music with FAR more ambitious composition, and from what I hear they spent a fraction of the time actually rehearsing and recording. Well, it shows. What could have been genius ended up being quite mediocre. And I give it that high a rating only because of the bravery and creativity in the ideas expressed there. Like I said, the execution stank. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 17 2005 at 11:41
Let's state that as an objective fact!!! |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 21 2005 at 07:19
Agreed!!! -------------
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Posted By: Wormboy
Date Posted: June 24 2005 at 11:30
| Do you Swedes actually put together logical points to support your sycophantic endorsements, or do you just spam approval of each-other? |
Posted By: Salmacis72
Date Posted: June 25 2005 at 20:38
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There is a reason why the Tales artwork hangs on my wall. It remains one of my most beloved albums. When I am in a Tales mood, I love sitting down with it, having one of those funny smelling cigarettes and just becoming wrapped up in it. Moments of such incredible beauty from a band who were in the middle of a creative spurt that lasted for several years. And really, how incredible is the "Leaves Of Green" section of "The Ancient"? In short, an album that divides the fans right down the middle and I am happy to be on my side. "And I do think very well... that the evenings take you silently..." ------------- 
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Posted By: Laurent
Date Posted: June 27 2005 at 21:44
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Yes 71-77 = Pure Greatness And that includes TFTO. Nuff said. -------------  |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 28 2005 at 07:44
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It took me a long, long time to get into TFTO, then one day, it just clicked. The album takes a bit of committment, as it's not an album I find you can listen to a single track (side?) at a time - it works best when listened to as a single piece of music. Sure, there are production value issues (what early 1970's album did not have these at one stage or another?), and yes, there is enough padding to fill several large cushions, but it has all the hallmarks of a progressive rock masterpiece: 1 - No tracks, just 'movements' 2 - Ridiculous time signatures 3 - Lyrics that even 4/5's of the band didn't understand 4 - Solos for everyone 5 - Central concept based on obscure eastern text How can you not like that? -------------  Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |