Nightwish on the progarchives???
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7112
Printed Date: May 08 2024 at 11:53
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Topic: Nightwish on the progarchives???
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Subject: Nightwish on the progarchives???
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 02:29
| Please i dont understand the connection Nightwish is utter crap and the worst pop metal band ever. Even you have to admit maiden being more proggish that nightwish |
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 02:56
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They're not utter crap, please. They're not pop metal either, it's just that gothic has become more mainstream compatible recently. But I agree that they are hardly progressive. Can any Nightwish fan give me a good starting point to explore their progressiveness? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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maidenrulez wrote:Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 03:00
I have always thought nightwish was utter crap even before they went commercial but that is just my opinion anyway i think there are too many non progressive standard metal bands on this site and yet there are many that calls mars volta and dream theater barely prog. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 03:12
There's a whole bunch of classical inspired metal bands that I don't like, but many others do: Nightwish, Therion, Haggard, 3rd And The Mortal, ... I always suspect that their fans have not heard better alternatives, but maybe I'm just wrong. As for their inclusion on this website, it's ok by me. There is no definitve authority that you can ask "Is this Prog" and then receive a "yes" or a "no". In case of Queensryche, you're preaching to the choir here, I agree completely. BUT there is a unique quality about Operation: Mindcrime, Promised Land and Tribe, I'd say there are definitively progressive tendencies. Add to that the fact that they heavily influenced the 90s prog metal. Furthermore many prog metal fans will agree that it is a band one has to know, if he wants to see the prog metal genre for what it really is. That all tells me that they must be included. Returning to the original topic: I don't think any of what I said about Queensryche applies to Nightwish ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 03:15
Yep i agree that queensryche is far more progressive than nightwish but anyways it irritates me abit that iron maiden is not included as they are my favorite prog-metal band. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 04:52
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What Maiden songs are progressive (in your opinion)? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 04:56
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I would say seventh son, sign of the cross, to tame a land, rhyme are the best ones but they got many more. I would say they have progressive elements because of the nice timechanges, change in moods, epic and complicated lyrics and longer instrumental sections with certain signs of experimentalism |
Posted By: dalt99
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:00
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I LOVE Iron Maiden but I don't think I would classify them as "Prog-Metal". They have great songs with extended time frames but they aren't TOO far away from bands like Metallica and Megadeth which I definitely would not put in the prog-metal category. However, I will say that bands like Nightwish and Savatage ARE on the site and they are not much more prog-metal then Maiden IMO.
------------- Best of 2006 that I've heard: PFM-Stati Di Immaginazione Zenit-Surrender (Best "unknown" album) Oaksenham - Conquest of Pacific 2007: Phideaux - Doomsday Afternoon La Torre Del Alchimista - Neo |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:03
I think the prog-metal community has embraced power-metal for its
symphonic elements, but... most of the time, I don't feel that
power-metal is prog. I DO think that prog-metal is definitely
prog, though. 
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:34
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I agree on the Power Metal problem, but certain albums can be progressive, too. I'm thinking about Blind Guardian: Nightfall In Middle Earth and Kamelot: The Black Halo. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:37
See my comparison of Rhyme and Ghostship (Shadow Gallery) in the other thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=390 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=390 I don't think that timechanges and long instrumental sections make a song progressive. It depends on the specific song though. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:38
Maidenrulez, I think quite a lot of people agree with you on this Nightwish thing, as there is absolutely nothing prog in their music. Regarding this matter, I have been told that once a band is accepted to the archives, it will stay there, no matter what happens.  And you're just going to get loads of angry posts by NW fans if you go on with this...
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:42
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I think it's good that there are some bands listed that could be argued about. It's a good thing that they won't be removed, and it is also necessary that bands are not automatically added just because similar bands are listed. anyway, Heaven's Cry should be added ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: firth_of_Fifth
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:43
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You all know this site wil become infested with 14 year old depressed girls who love nightwish..Damn you all...Damn you all to hell...
Charlton Heston style rant over.. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:46
At the risk of being repetitive...what about Helloween's Chameleon? ------------- A flower? 
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:47
http://thomasr.nvg.org/mortal.info/av.htm - http://thomasr.nvg.org/mortal.info/av.htm - check the last four audio samples on that - it goes way beyond the scope of standard classically inspired metal bands. Or even metal, for that matter. |
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:48
| Who on earth did get the idea of nightwish was progressive then? I know that nobody will accept maiden as a progressive band but who on hell did accept nightwish then? |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:50
Er...I was thinking that Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets and ...And Justice for All by Metallica contains some interesting picks that I would label "progressivISH"...in particular I mean:
some of which have been revisited in recent times by Dream Theater... ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:52
...and I thout it was some kind of romantic thread, not just another sh*t-metal-sh*t-thread....
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Posted By: dalt99
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 05:57
I TOTALLY agree with you, however do you think Metallica should be called a prog-metal band OVERALL or a heavy metal band. Nothing of their music from the 90's to today would really be classified as prog-metal and the songs you mentioned aren't more prog then metal really. Just a "proggish" tone to them. Like I said, if we include Metallica and Megadeth we might as well include ALL heavy metal groups and power-metal groups. I personally feel that a modern era band (1985-2005) shouldn't be entered here unless their music is at least 50% prog. Of course, who is going to determine what "prog" is by definition?
------------- Best of 2006 that I've heard: PFM-Stati Di Immaginazione Zenit-Surrender (Best "unknown" album) Oaksenham - Conquest of Pacific 2007: Phideaux - Doomsday Afternoon La Torre Del Alchimista - Neo |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 06:04
No, they are first and foremost a HEAVY METAL band! And in fact I agree with your considerations! ------------- A flower?
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Posted By: Bowzo
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 06:45
| Nightwish are by no means Prog... rrg... Why did Nightwish get included and primus didn't? I mean Primus are Yes compared to Nightwish. This is pretty stupid. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 07:09
Nightwish are not prog. If Nightwish are prog, then all those goth metal bands (like Within Temptation and Evanescance  ) are prog. AND THEY ARE NOT. But I'm not the one who decides who gets included here and who doesn't.
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 11:14
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this is one of the biggest mistakes to ever hit prog archives. nightwish don't have any progginess to their name (i bet they dont even know what prog is!) I can kinda see why radiohead could be on this site but never Nightwish! This is a mistake and they must be deleted immedietly, its rather embarressing for the website! before there was a band that were not prog and someone pointed it out so max deleted them instantly. This needs to be done for Nightwish, they are not even kinda close to prog in any way. ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 11:15
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There is barely one person on this site who thinks nightwish are prog. Please take action prog archives. ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 11:34
Well, I'm a 48 year old happy guy and I like listening to Nightwish... whether they are prog or not is another matter, but I can see that their blend of heavy metals and operatic effects could be regarded as prog. But I also think Radiohead is prog, so I'm definitely outnumbered here... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 17:06
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More of that!!! |
Posted By: MANTICORE
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 17:16
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TARJA TURUNEN IS A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN, BUT NIGHTWISH IS NOT A PROGRESSIVE GROUP THAT IS THE TRUTH  -------------  |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 17:22
So what are your hobbies ... except "I hate metal" posts in this forum ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 07 2005 at 21:03
u will never know.....goodnight everybody....see ya
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: June 08 2005 at 02:03
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Sorry... but there are some who think Nightwish are prog metal and they have every right to be included in the archives!! They are not dissimilar to Rhapsody, Therion and others of similar ilk. Just because they don't sound like DT or TMV doesn't make them any less deserving of being in the archives. I know who I would rather listen to any time. Oh.. I think Queensryche is a fantastic prog metal band. I don't see where Primus would fit into this archives and as for Metallica!!!! -------------  "Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: June 08 2005 at 02:04
------------- "Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 08 2005 at 02:34
| Anyone who would rate nightwish prog would rate bands like helloween or iron maiden as prog as well. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 08 2005 at 02:36
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Nightwish are not at all like Helloween, there's a big difference. They're both prog (Helloween much more than Nightwish), but with Maiden ... I think that only a few of their songs have prog tendencies. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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