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Prog Albums Tournament: Tarkus vs. Lizard

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71365
Printed Date: March 29 2024 at 04:04
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Topic: Prog Albums Tournament: Tarkus vs. Lizard
Posted By: Anthony H.
Subject: Prog Albums Tournament: Tarkus vs. Lizard
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:15
Part 3, Round 2. These are the winners of Part 2, Rounds 3-4. Which one do you prefer?

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Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:19
Lizard; I don't care for Tarkus.  I feel like I said the exact same thing before.


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:20
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Lizard; I don't care for Tarkus.  I feel like I said the exact same thing before.

Same here.


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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:21
Lizard hands down.

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Posted By: tarkus1980
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:28
Tarkus by a landslide.  I'm pretty solid in my Lizard dislike, though.

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"History of Rock Written by the Losers."


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:31
Tarkus 3*
Lizard 1/2* (probably just 2)


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Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:33
Lizard

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Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:34
Lizard, but it's  a close one.

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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA!


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 14:35
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Lizard hands down.


....the baton to Tarkus.

Both albums are patchy but for me the side long Tarkus suite is way better than it's equivalent on Lizard,
although there seems to be more filler in the shorter songs of Tarkus than Lizard.

It's close but a tongue and tail ain't really any match for an armed biomechanoid aardvark. Smile


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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 15:01
I like some parts of Tarkus (especially Stones of Years), but most of the album means very little to me. Lizard, on the other hand, is a (nearly) perfect album.


Posted By: chemebien
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 15:01
Lizard

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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 15:32
Both are very good, but I prefer Lizard


Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 15:39
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Lizard; I don't care for Tarkus.  I feel like I said the exact same thing before.

Same here.

Same here.


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Posted By: m2thek
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 16:02
Tarkus the song is better than Lizard the song, but I prefer Lizard the album over Tarkus the album


Posted By: JonteJH
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 16:04
Lizard!

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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 16:23
Tarkus, the epic, is grandiose heavy classical prog.
 
Though Lizard is fantastic althrough, with a very unique sound for Crimson, I vote for it of course.


Posted By: friso
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 16:27
Lizard is just amazing, prog without restrictions.


Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 18:40
I dislike both pretty equally. Slight nod to Tarkus, since their 20+ minute opus isn't as dull. 

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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.


Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 18:47
I like both epics, but the short tracks on Lizard are miles ahead of those on Tarkus. All of them.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 19:09
Lizard just slightly more than Tarkus.

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: mahavishnujoel
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 22:37
lizzzzzzzzzzzzzard!!!!! tarkus is good but KC takes the lead


Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 22:45
Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations.

Sometimes this website is just . . . .

wow.

EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . .


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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 23:10
I didn't think Crim had a chance against Tarkus.

Shocked


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 23:20
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations.

Sometimes this website is just . . . .

wow.

EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . .


Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.


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Posted By: Casimir
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 00:46
Tarkus, definitely.  Lizard just never really "clicked" with me.  (Except for "Indoor Games."  I love that song.)


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 01:37
Originally posted by crimhead crimhead wrote:

I didn't think Crim had a chance against Tarkus.

Shocked
Around here Crimson are untouchable as are Genesis (Gabriel era) and Gentle Giant.
 
So one of the most important prog albums by ELP v anything by KC is on a loser.Ouch


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 02:41
I don't love much both those two albums, but I like Tarkus a bit more.

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My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 03:50
I haven't heard some tracks of Lizard yet, so I don't vote. But it's a matter of fact that I like ELP's other pre-Works albums more. The title epic on tarkus is great though...

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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 06:03
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations.

Sometimes this website is just . . . .

wow.

EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . .


Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.
 
The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .
 
And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .


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Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 09:09
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations.

Sometimes this website is just . . . .

wow.

EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . .


Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.
 
The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .
 
And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .


Lizard is completely unique. You don't find any other songs that sound like Indoor games, Cirkus or Happy Family (atleast I haven't found any). For me the long title track is for winter times Embarrassed
I wouldn't even mind if it was voted as number one best prog album ever! If you "get into" Lizard you will be amazed Tongue. It seems to get better and better with time, for me.


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Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 09:36
Without hesitating : Lizard
The song "Tarkus" is a masterpiece, the album is a 3 stars album (even if I like "The Oily Way" and "Infinite Space" enough). But Lizard is one of the best albums of all times and rare are the albums which surpass it!


Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 09:37
Without thinking : Lizard
The song "Tarkus" is a masterpiece, the album is a 3 stars album (even if I like "The Oily Way" and "Infinite Space" enough). But Lizard is one of the best albums of all times and rare are the albums which surpass it!


Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 10:07
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:



Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.
 
The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .
 
And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .


The thing is, the poll asks for this: "Which one do you prefer?" not "Which one is more important/progressive?" and apparently more people prefer Lizard (like me), whether or not they've reviewed it.  I haven't reviewed either one.


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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 11:18
Hmmm, Tarkus is making a decent fist of this.  Another vote will help....


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 11:49
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations.

Sometimes this website is just . . . .

wow.

EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . .


Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.
 
The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .
 
And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .


Originally posted by Anirml Anirml wrote:

Lizard is completely unique. You don't find any other songs that sound like Indoor games, Cirkus or Happy Family (atleast I haven't found any). For me the long title track is for winter times Embarrassed
I wouldn't even mind if it was voted as number one best prog album ever! If you "get into" Lizard you will be amazed Tongue. It seems to get better and better with time, for me.


Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

The thing is, the poll asks for this: "Which one do you prefer?" not "Which one is more important/progressive?" and apparently more people prefer Lizard (like me), whether or not they've reviewed it.  I haven't reviewed either one.


My contribution to CCVP's post: The number of reviews indicate that it's a forgotten album?  Not only is King Crimson such a huge band at PA that I don't think one could call any of the studio albums forgotten, but Lizard has many reviews and a total of 366 ratings with a  score of 4.11.  Maybe my tastes are often obscure enough that I have a very different concept of forgotten or what qualifies as many reviews.

Just to focus on the late 69 through 70's albums, Lizard has more ratings and a higher rating than the subsequent album, as well as the former album, as well as Starless.... And the number of ratings isn't even that far behind what is many people's favourite King Crimson album (including mine), Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I would hardly call any of these forgotten.

4.56 | 917 ratings
../album.asp?id=1903 - In The Court Of The Crimson King 3.73
1969

3.73 | 313 ratings
../album.asp?id=1904 - In The Wake Of Poseidon
1970

4.11 | 366 ratings
../album.asp?id=1905 - Lizard
1970

3.77 | 275 ratings
../album.asp?id=1906 - Islands
1971

4.35 | 426 ratings
../album.asp?id=1909 - Larks' Tongues In Aspic
1973


3.84 | 258 ratings
../album.asp?id=1910 - Starless And Bible Black
1974


4.48 | 567 ratings
../album.asp?id=1911 - Red
1974

Now let's look at Tarkus:

4.04 | 311 ratings
../album.asp?id=1863 - Tarkus
1971

Tarkus has fewer ratings at PA than Lizard as well as a lower "score".  So what's your point? The poll results seem in-line with that.

Tarkus is not plainly better to me, nor is it plainly more progressive (I would say that Tarkus was a considerable progression for ELP from the debut, but I prefer the debut). This poll is about preferences, though, and I can say that Lizard is plainly better for me. I really like it, whereas I don't care for Tarkus.  Even when I liked ELP muchly, Tarkus, on the whole, left me cold. I do prefer King Crimson in general.  And while there are many ELP detractors at PA, it's clear that there are many who love ELP.



Posted By: DeKay
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:36
Lizard. That wasn't easy


Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:30
I guess you are right Greg, that does fit PA's opinion on both, but this website does create some distortions.

ELP sold millions upon millions of albums wile KC struggled through decades to sell 500k copies of their most known and famous album (the debut), on the US, not to mention that ELP is a band that is instantly recognized or remembered as a progressive rock band even outside the prog cicles, something that KC is not.

But you are right in anyway.


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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 14:34
Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album
 
Lizard: Immense song, Immense album


Posted By: Kojak
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 14:41
You know, Tarkus just slightly ahead of Lizard...


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 14:53
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album
 
 
Confused
The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.


Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 14:59
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album
 
 
Confused
The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.
 
One 5-star song + six 1-2 star songs isn't contradictory; even if the former is half of the album, the result is still an inconsistent 3-star mess. In fact, even if the title track lasted the whole album, it would still be just a good song and not a very great album (a bit samey no?)............


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:06
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album
 
 
Confused
The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.
 
One 5-star song + six 1-2 star songs isn't contradictory; even if the former is half of the album, the result is still an inconsistent 3-star mess. In fact, even if the title track lasted the whole album, it would still be just a good song and not a very great album (a bit samey no?)............
You called it 'immense' but wrote off the whole album as 'sh*t'. 3 star is a fair rating but 'sh*t' to me means 1 star for everything.That said I understand your point.


Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:09
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album
 
 
Confused
The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.
 
One 5-star song + six 1-2 star songs isn't contradictory; even if the former is half of the album, the result is still an inconsistent 3-star mess. In fact, even if the title track lasted the whole album, it would still be just a good song and not a very great album (a bit samey no?)............
You called it 'immense' but wrote off the whole album as 'sh*t'. 3 star is a fair rating but 'sh*t' to me means 1 star for everything.That said I understand your point.
 
Okay yeah, so it's just quite poor towards the end, not sh*t, but not as good as Lizard in any case!



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