Was Anglagard the reason why Prog rock rebirth?
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Topic: Was Anglagard the reason why Prog rock rebirth?
Posted By: Poncho Lopez
Subject: Was Anglagard the reason why Prog rock rebirth?
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 14:41
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OK, I HAVE A QUESTION HERE, 70'S WAS ALL ABOUT PROG ROCK, BUT IN THE 80'S WITH PUNK, NEW WAVE, AND METAL ON THE WAY, PROG ROCK STARTED TO DECLINE, AND ONLY A FEW NEOPROG BANDS WERE PLAYING, STILL RUSH AND PILLARS OF THE MOVEMENT WERE ON STAGE BUT THE DIRECTION OF PROG ROCK WAS CHANGING... LATE 80'S WERE NOT SO GOOD FOR PROG ROCK, NOT SO MANY NEW BANDS, RECORD COMPANIES OFFER NO MORE SUPPORT TO PROG ROCK. BUT THEN. IN THE 90'S. BANDS LIKE ANGLAGARD, ANEKDOTEN, DREAM THEATER, PORCUPINE TREE, SPOCK'S BEARD, ECHOLYN, ARENA, FLOWER KINGS. ETC. A NEW WAVE OF PROG ROCK ARRIVE. BUT THE ONE THAT STILL SOUNDED LIKE THE ORIGINAL PROG ROCK WAS ANGLAGARD. LIKE A BAND FROM THE 70'S WITH THEIR ALBUM HYBRIS HAVING SUCH A GREAT REVIEWS AND THEN MANY BANDS STARTING TO PLAY PROGROCK, SPECIALLY FROM THE SCANDINAVIA REGION.
SO THE QUESTION IS: ANGLAGARD'S "HYBRIS" WAS A BIG REASON WHY PROG ROCK SURVIVE THE 90'S?
KEEP PROGGIN!
*sorry for my english hehehe, not my native language, still learning hehe" ------------- la mejor musica del universo es esta! no pierdan el tiempo con otra musica |
Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 14:50
Why the shouting? WHY???????? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 14:57
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Did you really need to go all caps, I mean obviously you could go with regular cap and non-cap conventions. I'd have to say no because I've never listened to anything by them. NO DISRESPECT INTENDED BUT i JUST HAVENT LISTENED TO ANYTHING THEY'VE DONE. YOU'RE NOT A CAD DRAFTER BY ANY CHANCE? WE DO NOTES IN ALL CAPS AND IT'S ABOUT CLARITY RATHER THAN SHOUTING IN TYPE. AND YES i DELIBERATELY LEFT OUT THE APOSTROPHE. the omission of the question mark was accidental the omission of punctuation here marks was intentional ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 15:06
| No, 80s neo-prog was the last attempt to keep the genre alive. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 15:17
He really should use a bigger font and bold.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 15:23
 ------------- 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 15:39
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I'm not reading this because it's too loud. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 18:00
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I hope you all feel better. I am sure Poncho is feeling great Capitals or not ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Poncho Lopez
Date Posted: October 15 2010 at 19:45
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COME ON!!! Ahhh hahaha. hey at least answer my question then I can take all the blame for the capitals and the shouting hehehe. peace. prog rules!!!! ------------- la mejor musica del universo es esta! no pierdan el tiempo con otra musica |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 04:32
I won't even read it like that. Sorry. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 05:18
| No, prog would have took the same course with or without Anglagard. Having said that they did release 2 of the finest albums in the genre since the 70's golden years. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 07:41
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The ninties saw a general shift in attitude about music. Proper bands that could play their own instruments came back into vogue basically because people got fed up with the prefrabicated over produced bullsh*t that littered the eighties music scene. Nirvana and Oasis became massive in the 90's showing this shift as well as anything.
The most important band to me in the British rock scene was Mansun who produced one of the best albums of the decade with Attack Of The Grey Lantern including more than a few nods to progressive rock. Radiohead also emerged and were actually tagged 'prog rock' in some quarters. It was a safe time for prog bands too emerge from the closet properly and with a proper sense of pride about what they were doing. There was also too some extent a positive re-evaluation of progressive rock. It was just a very healthy decade for music (despite what Walter may think otherwise
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 07:43
To be fair he does use lower case in his sig. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 08:06
When i listened to Anglagard i don't have the impression that it has been made in 1992. To me, it's the closest thing prog has made in the 90's that sound like a 70's album. But i won't say that this is a rebirth of Prog Rock. I only think that it's one of a few bands that have done Prog albums in the spirit and the sounds of the 70's. Mariillion and IQ and the movement of Neo Prog have started the rebirth of Prog, if we can talk about "rebirth" |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 16 2010 at 12:11
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There was no need for it to be reborn, because it never died in the first place. Having said that, Hybris is a stunning album. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: October 24 2010 at 20:24
| I don't think so, even though their first album is great. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: October 24 2010 at 20:43
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nope
i dont see anglagard as being at all influential in the modern scene wich seems to not have gone in the symphonic direction at all... so no, not at all.
that being sayed i really enjoy anglagard ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 24 2010 at 21:30
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Anglagard was an important band in the 90's scene (sometimes called third wave). Sweden was important to that. I'd cite the Swedish Art Rock Society, founded in '91, which sought to restore the traits of classic progressive rock, and had Par Lindh as chairman. That was important and played a part in the rise of a neo-classic Prog scene that got going in Sweden, and spread. Bands such as Par Lindh Project (Par Lindh being chairman), Anekdoten, and Anglagard were spring-boarded, to quite an extent, due to the foundation of the Swedish Art Rock Society's values which was concerned with bringing back qualities/ spirit of classic progressive rock, and set out to do so, but progressive rock never ceased to exist. I guess they helped to popularise more retro prog in a way (or neo-classic prog revival). And then Sweden's The Flower Kings quickly followed, which is obviously retro. Par Lindh and the Swedish Art Rock Society were important to the third wave. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: October 24 2010 at 22:21
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I think the influence would have been a lot bigger if the internet was a factor then. A huge album in my opinion. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 24 2010 at 22:25
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The Swedish Art Rock Society was the reason......Anglagard was the symbol of the rebirth. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 00:52
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There was a rebirth? -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 00:58
That atrocious narrative deserves to be shot in the back of the head with a Colt 45. Its absolute rubbish. The 1980s were the last decade that offered modernist innovation, for it was a time where faith in the promise of technological achievement allowed new sounds to develop thanks to the digital revolution. The 90s were the beginning of the end, a dark age when banal slackers recycled old ideas and sold them as new. Oasis and Nirvana and Anglagard? Give me a break. None of these idiots ever came up with an idea that wasn't already done (in a superior fashion) before 1989. They had no sense of fun or originality; dour derisive and derivative, their crimes against culture should be prosecuted by all nations. |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 01:06
| Sick'em Walt. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 01:07
| Our hero strikes again! |
Posted By: June
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 06:26
| Prog died? |
Posted By: caretaker
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 07:03
| To answer the question I would say no. But I do like Anglagard. Prog is an era unto itself like the different periods of classical music. It never died so it doesn't need to be reborn. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 09:04
 In the end, it remained as underground with 3 Nearfest gigs a year and silly degrading picnic concerts. There is no money in that and if anyone deserves to make money, it would be in fact be the underground prog people who live off peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches for the sake of art.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 10:23
Never died, but was agonizing. The original bands changed their sound to some sort of POP with Proggy leanings, Neo Prog was never able to recapture the strength and originality of the pioneers and lets be honest, nobody dared (with a few exceptions) to release material as strong and radical as the one of the early 70's. But then came the Swedish Art Rock Society (1991), and impulsed bands Like Anglagard, Par Lindh Project, Anekdoten, etc, who took the risk to release material even more elaborate than the one of the 70's with success............So yes, it was a rebirth of the genre in it's original form, even when Progressive Rock never fully died before.. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 10:35
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Prog went back underground but not a s a dead body of music. Anglagard are definitely neo.prog to my ear, but too obscure to be responsible especially with a limited body of recordings for a 'rebirth' or perhaps more realistically, reappearance of prog above ground. You have to look towards the persistence of bands like IQ against the odds put against the genre, e.g. the heckling by the mainstream music press and radio in the UK. Or transplantation of UK bands to the USA (and Japan) where there was relatively greater tolerance and indeed money to keep going. OR the appearance of the Scandanavian prog scene evolving out of the likes of Anglagrad.. Not simple at all. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 14:14
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Anglagard isn't even that much of a well known band in PA. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 25 2010 at 15:04
Anglagard is pure Symphonic, doesn't have that 80's sound of Neo or the mixture of elements from New Wave, New Age, AOR, etc, as a fact, Anglagard was so Symphonic that they refused to use any instrument not availlable in 1974. Neo Prog tends to be less elaborate than Symphonic and Anglagard is much more elaborate than most Symphonic bands
Are you sure? Anglagard has one album in the top 15, above albums as Fragile or Larks Tongues in Aspic. There are 49 threads about Anglagard, 17 about Hybris , 6 about Epilog and 1 about Buried Alive; this means at least 73 threads about Anglagard...Very few bands achieve this. So don't tell me they are not well known, few people here don't know Anglagard, despite they only released 2 studio albums. Iván -------------
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Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 06:17
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Anglagard had beautiful "retro-modern" sound. Yes, they use real Hammonds and mellotrons (not a synthesized samples), but their sound was modernly-agressive . Nobody in 70thies (including Yes, Genesis) played like this. And that's good for Anglagard - bring some modern feel into music, even use retro-instruments and technologies Also, there is an interesting fact that Swedish prog-rock have something very subtle in common - Anglagard, Anekdoten, PLP, Sinkadus (and even Samla - which is in it's very separate category). I don't know where this "Swedish-born melodism" coming from, but I feel it in the music of all above mentioned bands . Maybe it's a subtle influence of Swedish folk music ? |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 10:34
As for 80's music there was some great artists like Kate Bush and they didn't suddenly drop dead on the 1st January 1990.There was never some arbitary cut off.
btw to rubbish my comments and the come up with nonsense is quite hilarious:
The 1980s were the last decade that offered modernist innovation, for it was a time where faith in the promise of technological achievement allowed new sounds to develop thanks to the digital revolution
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 12:07
This. The reason we've seen a resurgence of prog in the last 10 years (and don't give me any of that "prog never died" crap - it was at the very least extremely marginalised, undervalued and widely-ridiculed through much of the 80's and 90's) is largely down to the internet. The effortless sharing of content (legal or otherwise) coupled with the opportunities to seek out and communicate with like-minded individuals breathed new life into prog. Obviously the internet isn't the only factor, and Anglagard certainly were amongst the first of the new breed to really show that there was still an appetite for new prog (they played that careful balancing act of 70s nostalgia and modern sensibilities to perfection) but ultimately the second coming of prog is down to a lot more than the contribution of any singular group or artist. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 12:13
IYHO!!!! I was sold my first Anglagard album as a band have some echoes of Genesis sans the vocals. An opinion I've not disagreed with since. Hence neo prog in my language which is based on the original definition of neoprog, i.e. prog derivative in part, from what went before in the (early) 70's. So degrees of elaboration are irrelevant ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 14:29
I respectfully disagree.
Prog never died, and just continued on. And the 80's was a new breed, just like the 90's and then the new century.
We may look back and appreciate some of the older ones, but it is hardly fair to say that the new ones did not "have it" ... specially when we would probably trash KC's first album if it came out today instead of 1969 ... for being temperamental, selfish, over indulgent and pretentious! And of course, it is not metal, which means that it would'nt be considered "prog" ... and no one wants to hear cheasy lyrics and poems nowadays, unless you have some bigger noise.
Music has changed and the times changed. There was music in the 80's and 90's that was just as progressive as the ones we love to compare it to, but we're too damn stuck up to appreciate the differences and the new sounds and can only compare to some idiosyncratic master or hero.
It's too easy to say that Anglaagard and Anekdotten were influenced by KC ... and sadly, it takes away from their own inner voice and talent ... they are much better on their own, without any comparisons to anyone else. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 02:36
I'm a big fan of Par Lindh who was also responsible from excellent and original prog rock from the 90's. Veni Vidi Vici sticks out.Of course he has his influences but he still created his own brand of prog that is unlike anyone else.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:41
Not only IMHO Dick, but also in the Prog Archives definition:
It's clear Dick, but not only here:
Even when poor and harsh, this definition goes directly to the main point.
Marillion is derivative from nobody IMPO, they were doing ORIGINAL CLASSICAL SYMPHONIC, not imitating any band, all their stuff is completely original and if they have influences from other bands (mainly King Crimson I believe), it's the same influence that bands like Genesis or Yes received from other coetaneous bands.
Making Symphonic Prog is not making 70's music, it's playing in one defined genre.
Cheers.
Iván
PS: The beach is waiting, I'll be back in Perú tomorrow or Thursday
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 06:42
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I continue to disagree with you and stick to what we first generation progressive rock/music fans ironically meant by neo.prog when this music first appeared. Were you there?! ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 07:11
Exactly. The application of the word "Neo" was entirely and intentionally ironic. I am pretty sure that Marillion, IQ et al were mainly concerned with keeping the "prog tradition" ( I hesitate to say "movement" as there was no consensus amongst the 70s iconic bands) alive rather than creating something new. One could almost reasonably suggest that they were aiming for the markets that Genesis, Yes, and to some extent Rush, had deliberately left behind. In Marillion's case they embraced both the classic Genesis era and the more commercial post Hackett era and probably on the coattails of Genesis mega success in the early 80s were extremely successful commercially themselves in the UK. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:32
I agree with this to an extent. And it is the same thing today, and actually it was the same thing way back then as well.
Too much of the stuff that is listed is just simple copy and has as much originality as ... and in the end, it is just another commercial adventure.
As for the prosecution, I'll leave that to your hands. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 16:38
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Although Anglagard is a great band, they're so tiny that I doubt they were responsible for the rebirth. I discovered them only a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty well versed in most somewhat "popular" prog bands. I think the prog metal wave influenced it more, with Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, Symphony X, and bands like that, along with lighter bands like The Flower Kings, who gathered larger followings, unlike Anglagard who released like 2 or 3 albums and then we never heard from them again... ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 03 2010 at 19:46
The first generation Prog fans talked ironically in the early mid 80's more commercial approach to Prog, the 90's is another story, Par Lindh formed the Swedish Art Rock Society as a reaction to what they saw as light Prog in the 80's and IMO it's a resurrection of the early values and sound of Progressive Rock.. In the 90's people already believed Prog was dead and the music of Anglagard is totally different to what Neo Prog bands did, it was Symphonic Prog of the best kind. I was there in the late 70's, early 80's and 90's, and by 1987 already believed Prog was dead, Anglagard gave me new hopes as well as PLP and Flower Kings. Iván. -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 02:26
But as I said before I believe there was a general wind of change in the 90's where real musicians and proper live music came back into vogue partly as a reaction against the plastic eighties and the overproduced nonsense that was shoved down out throats in that decade.Towards the end of the nineties you had fully fledged prog festivals and so many bands touring that it was hard to choose who to go and see. That trend continued well into the noughties although I think the world wide recession of the last few years has taken its toll and there doesn't seem to be as much about now as there used to be. Prog is very much a live performance thing imo.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 02:30
Post-1989 music offers absolutely no innovation. The advent of digital brought music to its limits during the 80s; whether or not you enjoy synth-heavy bands is your problem, but they were the last real revolutionaries of the art form once known as music. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 09:33
Sorry, but I don't buy this. I always believed that most bands of the 80's were extremely derivative, and the use of digital instruments might be an innovation or a revolution in technology, but I care more for the music than for the technology. Now, the bands of the 90's (mainly Swedish were not making derivatibve music, they were creating new and original Symphonic Prog.....It's clear that Symphonic Prog may sound closer to the 70's, but that's a logical consequence of he fact that most of the bands in the 70's played Symphonic Prog and the genre has a structure that's familiar fopr all of us.. You take bands as Marillion (which I love - art least Fish's era-) and you can say.."Hey Assassin sounds almost as "Battle for the Epping Forest", but in the case of Anglagard you can find that the sound is familiar, but not identify any moment with a song from a 70's band. This is because any Symphonic band will have some STYLISTIC similarity with Yes, Genesis or Camel, not because they are remaking Genesis, Yes or Camel's music. Symphonic genre was not created to last a decade and then vanish, Symphonic Prog reached the first peak in the 70's, but only in the 90's new bands dared to make new Symphonic. Iván -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 16:55
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Of course its a matter of perspective and taste. The idea that you can objectively decide a cut off date for innovation is nonsense. There were many that thought innovation ended at the end of the sixties and that music just became a souless enterprise after that dominated by 'Muso's' with little wit or creative ability.John Peel's put downs of Yes and ELP were very well known to prog fans.From his perspective Punk rode to the rescue and brought a more 'innocent' and less cynical approach back to music. Naturally I see it very different. The beauty of the nineties is that bands like Radiohead,Mansun and Oasis were able to draw upon a wider variety of influences. Noel Gallacher has expressed his love of Pink Floyd's The Wall. Radiohead were even called 'prog rockers' after OK Computer.Kid A then showed something different but like anyone they had to start somewhere. The Beatles started off covering American rock n roll songs before realising they could write their own songs. Music is a collective thing. Its dynamic and fascinating. Not some linear progression that starts at point A and ends at point B. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:24
So true ... so true it hurts!
I love it when some of these bands, today, are considered "prog" and they have as much creativity as some of the stuff that goes down that toilet when you flush it. And keyboards? ... oh my god ... I'm not sure that we even want to use the word in relation to keyboards, lest we insult some of the originators of a lot of music and "sounds" ... which the majority of these bands today can't do and are afraid to do.
There are some good things today, but even Porcupine Tree haas a bit of the conventional in them, although Steven is trying hard to break the song structures ... the only thing they are missing is that Richard's keyboards are better on his solo albums than they are in PT ... and that limitation maybe on account of Steven himself! I can't really think of any other bands where the keyboards are used for sounds, not strings yet again! Or just another solo instrument with a different sound! Sorry DT ... you fail! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Poncho Lopez
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:29
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Prog rock today has more forms and shapes than before. so many genres, but we all conclude that symphonic rock are the real roots of prog rock. In the 80's symphonic prog was dead. and that's a truth. only neo prog. and yes. they help keep the light on for prog. but the true shape was vanishing. and then in the begining's of the 90's, mainly from sweden, bands like Anglagard, Par Lindh, Anekdoten, etc, were not afraid to continue the real reason why prog is know. and that's REAL PURE SYMPHONIC PROG ROCK. And... mmmm Anglagard (not well known in the prog community)? are you for real?
Only 2 albums. that's not much. but they archive great respect from the real long veteran prog fans....Yes, with only 2 albums
Be happy  ------------- la mejor musica del universo es esta! no pierdan el tiempo con otra musica |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:31
Ivan ... you're going around the incorrect loop ... symphonic anything, of which we want to add the music we love, has been around for hundreds of years ... and it didn't disappear simply because Genesis went Pop and ELP went Kaboom and Disco went laladin!
There was progressive and symphonic music in the 80's ... that we are not acknowledging ... music never stops ... only our perceptions do! Not to mention the many different countries that also had music! We list them ... no one hears them ... one person throws a label at them ... and no one else checks!
Arts don't stop the world over simply because you or someone else or I do not think it is right or didn't happen yesterday at 5PM ... please accept that reality.
Symphonic anything in various forms is one of the most endearing and long lasting styles of music ... and we have been in love with the melodic and harmonic content in it for at least 500 to 600 years ... that it begs the saying ... the more things change, Ivan ... the less they change ... in the end, you still get into your pj's to go to bed! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:41
They merely venture into the form, but where's the substance? Its rehashing the formula, sound, aesthetics and values of yesteryear. The 80s neoprog bands tinkered with the tones of their era, the last era of innovative sound design. The 90s bands, in contrast, copy the attitude and sound of the 70s. Progress? More like absolute regression. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:01
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It seems absurd to cite the advent of digital technology in the 80's as the last credible innovation in music. We're talking about SAMPLING here hello? i.e. the means to copy any audio source and splice same into your own music. Digital sampling should have represented a fantastic creative tool for musicians but it ended up as a lazy substitute for a lack of original ideas and that pretty much sums up the output of the 'magpie decade' in my book. Even something as dodgy as plagiarism has a hierarchy: to copy something verbatim and pass of as your own creation you can use a digital sampler - the other type of sampler is the one that exists between your ears and you actually have to understand music to replicate what you hear using one of those. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:08
I'm not talking about Symphony orchestras or Symphonies (there's not a genre called Symphonic that has been around for hundreds of years)........I'm talking about Symphonic PROG which almost vanished in the 80's and that's a fact, very few Symphonic Prog bands released albums in this genre during that decade. Iván -------------
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Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:32
I have to disagree. Obviously there is influence on 90s bands by 70s bands, but not nearly so much as there was on 80s bands. Marillion sounds like Genesis, but Anglagard just sounds like Anglagard. In my eyes, (and I'm certain you'll disagree with me) the 90s and 00s were far more innovative than were the 80s. Toby Driver, the entirety of prog metal... the 90s and 00s contributed far more to the genre than did the 80s. Merely my opinion, of course, and you are more than free to disagree. ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:36
Now that everything can be copied, what's original? Except for the works of innovators who happen to operate in the initial moments of digital sampling, the idea quickly becomes a cliche. Sampling is the logical endpoint for innovation, and this occurs in the late 80s. The 80s is the last moment in which originality is allowed to even exist. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:13
Plagiarists have been able to copy since before there was even electricity, it's just that digital technology made it considerably easier. Your post reads like something the late Kathy Acker would have written i.e. one of those post-modernist dismissals where plagiarism is considered an acceptable artistic device with it's apologists citing 'irony' as their muse. Following your logic here, the advent of the camera in the 19th Century would have forestalled Cubism, Fauvism, Futurism, Expressionism and Surrealism? That's bollocks ain't it? -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:16
I can't stand post-modern ideas. I stand by the modernist notions of progress and originality. However, originality in the post-89 context is non-existent and absolutely impossible. Its all a rehash of previous greatness. Sampling, in the 80s, is novel and innovative. However, in the post-89 era its novelty wears out.and becomes a standard element in music. Stealing and recontextualizing becomes old hat, another banality in an age without ideas. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:25
Why impossible? If it was possible for Bach to make original Baroque music 200 years after Monteverdi, then is possible for any good artist to make original Symphonic music after 10, 20, or 50 years. Genres used to last centuries, why do we insist in the idea that Symphonic Prog only lasted 10 years? Iván -------------
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:32
A style, an approach and an aesthetic are all the product of their time. The 70s produced excellent symphonic music, and superb bands latched onto the possibilities during this period of time. Latecomers in the post-89 era operate in an era without ideas, without originality. These johnny-come-latelies artificially replicate the ethos of another age. Their false productions are inherently derivative and inferior to the original pieces. Divorced from its proper context, the musical approach they seek to replicate is a weak aberration sustained by the bankrupt ethics of the post-89 age. Every time you support a post-89 "artist" you are endorsing theft and the disenfranchisement of a pre-89 hero. Genres don't last centuries. The 20th century is littered with fleeting movements and styles that encompass short time spans of a decade or less. Symphonic prog had its moment. Let's enjoy the fruits of that era rather than consume the poisonous errors of post-89 thieves. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:34
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lol
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:37
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See? That's the churlish attitude of a remorseless thief of the post-89 persuasion. The works of him and his ilk should be excised from the annals of human existence. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:40
Yes I know. I fail.  Now here's my question. I wrote most of my songs in 1987. Do I qualify as a pre-1989 hero, or must one actually release the album before 1989? Because I recorded one song in 1987. My mom has it on cassette. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:41
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Your inability to present yourself as an element of the pre-89 era in proper album form merely underscores your scorn for the Golden Age of Music. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:44
And oh God how I scorn it!  'Night Walter.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:44
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Oh Walter |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:45
Have a good one and remember: Say "NO!" to new music. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:49
Already have a good one. Just need a longer one. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:54
| Walter is my hero, and the most glorious poster on all of PA |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 00:59
Take some pills, then. That's a fine way of getting additional sleep. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 04:54
While I cannot agree with his typically ludicrous reasoning, I agree with Walter that Anglagard wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. Not to mention that their frequent and abrupt transitions make their music difficult to listen to in a bad way. Don't tell me that it's prog and you have to persist to 'get' it, I have never had to persist more than maybe three sessions to 'get' Magma or Univers Zero in the sense I mean. So I am referring to a more absolute musicality here and I cannot listen to music that has no continuity or direction and wants the listener to believe that sudden off putting shifts are very cool and progressive. Of course, there was a lot of great music in the 90s - Kevin Gilbert, Jeff Buckley, Radiohead, Tori Amos, Jamiroquai - so I don't have to stick to "enjoying the fruits of 70s symphonic prog". 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 05 2010 at 18:17
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I thought symphonic prog was just a sub genre of prog?
Anyway if the discussion is just about symph prog then I will challenge anyone to listen to Par Lindh's 'Veni Vidi Vici' and then specify which seventies prog albums he is plundering.Please.
That said I havn't any symph prog since that album that is remotely interesting. Don't really care that much though as I've found plenty of other stuff to enjoy outside of that (sub) genre.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 10:03
Knowing your tastes Richardh, I recommend you to start with:
I'm sure you'll find both interesting. Iván -------------
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 07 2010 at 13:10
^ thanks Ivan. Recommendations always welcome
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Posted By: KABSA
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 16:25
its easier to read my eyesight is very poor , and glasses get on yer tits after a while
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