Flash or Starcastle?
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Topic: Flash or Starcastle?
Posted By: Gandalff
Subject: Flash or Starcastle?
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 02:04
  Two Yes epigons. Starcastle (United States) is more Symphonic, lyrical, with keyboards and harmonic vocals.
Flash (United Kingdom), on the other hand, is more Eclectic, raw, led by expressive Rickenbacker Bass, mostly without keyboards.
Which band is preferred by you? I didn´t include the option "Both equally" this time.  ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Replies:
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 04:03
| I like both, but Flash is better and diffrent, In the can is my fav from them and one of my fav albums ever. |
Posted By: dave-the-rave
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 10:24
| Voted for Flash because they at least have a former Yes member in the band, unlike the Starcastle guys who woke up and said, "Hey, let's imitate Yes!" |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 10:44
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Well I voted Flash because Peter banks is an awesome guitarist. And they are efffing brill! Starcastle are good too. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 13:00
| Starcastle. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 15:19
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Flash for their larger degree of originality. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 14:30
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I need to check out Flash....
Starcastle's first two albums are really good (but derivative) ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Gandalfino
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 13:31
| Flash are slightly more original, that´s actually Yes daughter band. On the other hand, Starcastle is nothing more than a strange Yes clone. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:39
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Flash for me, although I know members of both bands! Flash gets the nod for originality, they took the Rick lead-bass sound into new territory since they usually didn't have keys to rely upon. Starcastle were a bunch of downstate Illinois guys who were not trying to "be" Yes as much as borrow from the sound, modify it and run with it! Back then, the music of Yes was still unbelievably new & fresh, and there were very few derivative bands, probably because it was hard to find that level of talent! Starcastle's bassist, the late/great Gary Strator, had the Squire vibe down to a "T"! He sang, played and even looked like Chris, it was uncanny! And yet, the band didn't cover a single Yes tune that I ever heard of....although they did do a lot of covers in a typical set, including "Jumping Jack Flash," "Saturday" by Elton John, etc. Music to drink beer by! I miss these prog powerhouses, Flash is engineering a comeback & worth checking out online, see http://www.myspace.com/flashbennettcarter" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/flashbennettcarter
|
Posted By: Jazzywoman
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:57
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Starcastle; mostly for the first three records being excellent. -------------  
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Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:09
| Starcastle, because, let's face it, Colin Carter's vocals are better in small doses. . . |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 01:47
Oh yes, you´re right! Carter´s voice is really somewhat annoying. I have the same problem with Geddy Lee, by the way. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Bitterblogger wrote:Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 00:04
|
Colin Carter's voice is better than ever with age and experience, and in
the FLASH reunion lead vocals are shared by former Flash bassist, now
lead guitarist, Ray Bennett. Flash has also added keyboards and strong
backing vocals, and has a new CD scheduled for release early 2011. Here's the new line-up rehearsing a song written by Carter, "Manhattan Morning", from Flash's third album "Out of Our Hands"... |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 01:28
And who are you? Flash´s manager or some member´s wife? ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 01:57
Yes. It's a very long story, Gandalff. You can hear some of it in various interviews, including a recent one I posted on Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/user/sherrynoland" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/sherrynoland Without all the sordid details, it simply wasn't possible - Pete and Mike aren't up to it. But Ray and Colin are, and are doing what they've always done - making original, innovative music. They wrote most of the Flash material, and are enjoying the partnership as much as ever. And they still wear tight pants! |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 03:52
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 06:25
|
I'm Ray's wife. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73449&title=flash-1971-to-present" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73449&title=flash-1971-to-present |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 06:44
|
I thought it. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 15:10
| What made you think of having a poll between Flash and Starcastle? |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 16:44
I totally agree. They've been labeled as a Yes clone, but they not only were influenced heavily by Yes, but had also some ELP and a little (very little) genesis on their sound. Back they there weren't any clone bands, as far as I know, and the tendency to influence your music and get inspiration from the big acts was not uncommon, like Rush being influenced by Led Zeppelin or Hoelderling by Genesis, but being a clone was not the intention, showing some originality in your music.
|
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 04:01
I´ve mostly told it in my first post. Plus curiosity who has more popularity on Prog Archives. To be honest, I´m disapointed that Starcastle leads. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 04:21
| I just looked up the word 'epigone'. Says, "a second-rate imitator or follower". Peter Banks imitated no one. Neither do Ray or Colin. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 05:55
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Imitators? That´ s the meaning of this thread, to judge who is so-called follower or epigon, as you list, and who is just imitator only. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 18:58
So, if the poll is who is the best "second-rate imitator" of Yes, it's good that Flash is losing!  I don't know Starcastle, but Flash and Yes were very related through personnel and background - playing and hanging out together. Pete has always sounded like Pete - a very distinct style and sound that was a large part of the Yes sound. You may already know that Ray and Bill Bruford were boyhood friends and played in their first band together at 15. Ray stayed at the 'Yes flat' in London with Chris and the others, and his first wife dated Tony Kaye before Ray, and on and on. They were all unique, adventurous musicians and they inspired each other to greater heights. It was a very productive, creative atmosphere. But the credo was always ORIGINALITY. To be caught 'imitating' was the worst you could say about a musician. Those were the days. We could use more of that. Of course, I'm a big fan and I might be a bit biased, but I'm very glad to see Flash together again making music. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 19:08
|
Everyone imitates someone else. Nothing wrong with that.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 19:13
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Flash by miles; Starcastle are by no means bad, but I do feel like they're simply Yes clones. Flash are much more original and artistically creative IMO.
------------- 
|
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 20:29
| Flash has better album covers. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 03:59
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 27 2010 at 14:33
Yes, we all stand on the shoulders of the greats - contemporaries and those who went before us, and are inspired by them, but imitating is another thing, and hopefully is something you stop doing once you learn how to play. I'm not a musician, and this may not be true for other people, but I've watched Ray and Colin and they spend most of their time playing and writing, very little time listening to other people as they did when they were kids. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:03
I've voted for Flash. Neither are epigons. "Epigon" has a negative connotation as soulless imitators which neither Flash nor Starcastle were.
|
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:05
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 08:13
so is it just imitators then? Flash are great, much more than a Yes imitators, it's got an early Yes vibe but then again Peter banks was their guitarist  , so...Starcastle are Yes influenced but than again they are influenced by Styx, too.
|
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 09:01
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Followers? Brothers in arms? ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: XTChuck
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 10:50
|
Tough choice for me. Both bands had debut LP's that were fantastic. I'll have to vote later..........
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 28 2010 at 21:16
Oh my gawd ... she is hinting at another Hipgnosis' cover? .... "still wear tight pants" ...
Ok ok ok ,.... joking aside ... glad to hear it and yes, I am actually looking forward to listening to this and maybe catching you guys if you are travelling up I-5 in the future. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: December 29 2010 at 01:36
|
I'll keep you posted about upcoming gigs, and you can also get on the mailing list at the Flash site for news about the new CD and tour dates. The I-5, eh? Ray's been talking with the owner of some Indian casino (in central California, I think) about playing there. http://www.reverbnation.com/flashbennettcarter" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/flashbennettcarter |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 01:00
Nice, Joel!  Glad you noticed... |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:33
Just to be clear....we have a misunderstanding, Gandalff. It's true, Wiktionary is the least negative. It says - Nounepigone (plural http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/epigones#English" rel="nofollow - epigones )
But every other source, including the esteemed American Heritage Dictionary is negative. They say - American Hereitage - n. A second-rate imitator or follower, esp. of an artist or philosopher. thefreedictionary.com -
audioenglish.net - • http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/epigon.htm#noun" rel="nofollow - - EPIGON - (noun) 1. an inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician Familiarity information: EPIGON used as a noun is very rare. Webster's Dictionary - Noun 1. An inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician. Answers.com - The noun has one meaning: http://www.answers.com/topic/epigone-epigon" rel="nofollow - http://www.answers.com/topic/epigone-epigon" rel="nofollow - Meaning #1 : an inferior imitator of some distinguished writer or artist or musician http://www.answers.com/topic/epigon#ixzz1A6fOmmDD" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: sherrynoland
Date Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:37
|
Now that there are no remaining members of Yes in Flash (that is, one of the Yes-sound-originators, Pete Banks isn't in the band) it's pretty inevitable that Flash will sound less like Yes - perhaps nothing like Yes - so, the comparisons might finally end. Flash also existed before progressive rock became a 'thing', so I can promise you they won't be 'imitating' progressive rock, either! The members of Flash have always been originators. Like it or not, what you hear will be new and most likely, hard to categorize. Maybe a new genre will have to be spawned... Here's one of their new tunes titled "10,000" - First, a short live rehearsal clip. The second video is an early mix of the complete track crudely recorded from my computer screen with my digital camera. |