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The Brutality of the Hammond: Tarkus

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Topic: The Brutality of the Hammond: Tarkus
Posted By: jammun
Subject: The Brutality of the Hammond: Tarkus
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 22:25
Okay, I'm 'round  'bout two sheets to the wind it being Friday night.  But..if ya want to hear pure Hammond fury, that Tarkus ranks right up there.  Emerson is taking no prisoners, he's got the Hammond drilled down to it's essence, the tone-wheels at their edge.  Percussion set to Third, probably with some extraneous modifications.  Yes there are better players I suppose, but this is the Hendrix of the Hammond.  We hear every nuance of that instrument.  We hear every wail and every high and every low it is capable of.  sh*t, clear the battlefield. 


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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.



Replies:
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 10 2010 at 23:56
Yep, agree wholeheartedly as Tarkus has some of the most visceral organ sounds in the whole of Prog. From memory, I think the instrument is limited to having the percussion setting available on only one manual at a time (so Keith used two organs for his left and right hand parts on the album)

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Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:33
I agree the Hammond on Tarkus is wonderfully brutal, but I'd also give some love to Jon Lord of Deep Purple who got some wonderfully brutal, almost fuzz guitar, sounds out of the Hammond.


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 08:41
"Tarkus" is one of the greatest prog epics ever written, and I agree- the organ is awesome throughout.

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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 23:20
Tarkus is indeed an awesome accomplishment. I don't even really like ELP, but that is a great track with some great organ on it. Overall though, I perfer Vincent Crane's playing to Emerson's.

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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 11 2010 at 23:29

Yeah, 90% of the cause that Tarkus is so great for me it's because of the Hammond.



Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 01:17
Only 1 1/2 sheets tonight.  I've nothing against Vincent Crane nor John Lord nor any others who've made a mighty noise with a Hamnond.  But we tend to almost irresponsibly marginalize Emerson's work.  Listen.  Really listen.  Tarkus, you'll hear that Hammond  breathing, especially in the lower registers. Really you'll almost hear it sucking in the air and pushing it back out.  It's respiring is what it is.   We hear something that is unusual even for E.  I dunno, maybe it's the production, but I hear every click as the note hits the contact, and the contact relays down to the tone wheel, and ol' Rocky has got it all working just so.  It's one of life's little joys.

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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 01:29

Agree with most posts on this subject; but for sheer organ power, you have to listen to 'Cold Sweat' by Clouds; also 'Mind of a Child' with phased C3. Ritchie had the biggest organ sound of all 'live', and these tracks are the closest to that on record.



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 03:41
I am an ELP fan but Rod Argent and Jon Lord were the real masters of this instrument imo. Emerson as a talent was always too big for just one instrument as well demonstrated on ELP's debut album where he shows virtuoso albility on Three Fates and a wonderfull appreciation for the possibilties of the Moog synth.
 
As regards Tarkus I actually prefer the live version on WBMFTTSTNE where it sounds to me like a Hammond should sound. On the studio version it is a bit bland for me.


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 04:07
Dave Stewart on The Polite Force?  I am not certain about what all equipment he was using, but this is some nasty keyboard playing. 



I do prefer Stewart's playing to Emerson's as such.  I feel Emerson didn't show much growth from his initial, revolutionary burst.  Stewart's playing on the Khan album after this, then Hatfield and finally National Health at the end of the same decade all show varied influences and developments in his style. 


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 15:59
Keith was a true master of the Hammond and the Moog, and I fully agree that when you listen to Tarkus in detail it's mind-blowing. But the actual fact that for me put Keith over Dave Stewart, John Lord and many others was his use of the grand piano.
 
Don't take this too literally but with a nice powerful electric sound anybody can sound impressive, it's with the acoustic instruments that real class shows up.  It's the same with guitars, give me a powerful metal Boss sound patch and I can play something which sounds impressive, but when you have to play classical or acoustic the differences show up quickly.
 
Keith was a monster playing hard Hammond and Synth prog rock but he played also such wonderful piano parts, still rarely found in other prog rock keyboardist.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 13 2010 at 21:05
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Okay, I'm 'round  'bout two sheets to the wind it being Friday night.  But..if ya want to hear pure Hammond fury, that Tarkus ranks right up there.  Emerson is taking no prisoners, he's got the Hammond drilled down to it's essence, the tone-wheels at their edge.  Percussion set to Third, probably with some extraneous modifications.  Yes there are better players I suppose, but this is the Hendrix of the Hammond.  We hear every nuance of that instrument.  We hear every wail and every high and every low it is capable of.  sh*t, clear the battlefield. 
 
The whole album is excellent ... not just one piece.
 
It's just too bad that someone can only think of this as a Hammond piece ... I see hear an orchestra in my head when I hear that organ or anything else ... the compositional sense of the whole album is so well done ... and it deserves to be listened to and appreciated.
 
If there is an issue is that for today's listeners, a lot of the music is way too symphonic instead of metalic, and the only thing we should say to that is ... that the Hammond in that album is the guitar ... and forget the rest and just enjoy the music! Because it is good!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 01:34
Emerson did actually compose the instrumental sections on a piano and then transferred it to Hammond. As Moshkito says its a very grand symphonic peice that could easily be orchestrated.


Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: December 17 2010 at 20:19
The sound of Tarkus is amazing


Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 10:49
The best Hammond sound is to be found on a certain 70s prog lp.
 
 
Ars Nova deliver great Hammond sound - but not sure if its the real thing.


Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 10:52
Sorry - should have said  "certain ITALIAN 70s prog lp".
 
(There is no post edit function here??)


Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 13:21
^indeed there is, where it says 'Post Options' there you can click and edit it. Post Options 


Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 22:14
Dave Stewart have the most sinister tones of any album of any prog artist to date.

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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 22:43
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Emerson did actually compose the instrumental sections on a piano and then transferred it to Hammond.


ooh I'd like to hear the piano originals, or a new piano-based version.. c'mon Keith, revisit the old xenarthran !

yep, for me as a lad Tarkus was the prog album that started it all.  Truly a church of Prog.







Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 01:52
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Emerson did actually compose the instrumental sections on a piano and then transferred it to Hammond.


ooh I'd like to hear the piano originals, or a new piano-based version.. c'mon Keith, revisit the old xenarthran !

yep, for me as a lad Tarkus was the prog album that started it all.  Truly a church of Prog.





Very much my experience as well. It is a remarkable peice of music for sure and perhaps a little underrated (too much bombast for some tastes perhaps)


Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 08:14
Originally posted by Alberto Muņoz Alberto Muņoz wrote:

Dave Stewart have the most sinister tones of any album of any prog artist to date.
That might as well be, but this thread is about Hammond.
 
Dave used the lowly Lowrey.
 
(One of the few times he got his hands on a Hammond was the demos for Nigel Planer's "Heavy Concept Album" lp.)


Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 17:14
Tarkus is the best ELP release ever and the first i've listened to,i keep on listening to it from time to time,loudly of course!!to feel the hamond through my body, a real achievement!!!Thumbs Up


Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:37
No live Hammond stage sound was ever bigger than Billy Ritchie with Clouds; like listening to two organists playing in unison. You can hear that to some extent on 'Cold Sweat' the the middle and coda of 'Sing Sing Sing'. Fastest ever hands too. He cut off before the Prog era really got going, so doesn't (in my opinion) really qualify as a true Prog keyboard player, he was a Hammond organist, and that's it, I'm not sure he could even have translated himself into the synth era to the standard of excellence brought by Emerson and Wakeman. But Hammond, yes, absolutely the best. It was a massive sound, The Nice couldn't live with that on a live stage. Tony Kaye (Yes) even tried copying the Hammond settings Ritchie used, but it still didn't sound the same, much to Tony's puzzlement. What he needed was a left hand as strong as his right. 


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:55



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Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:28



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Posted By: DaveDawson
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 16:25
 Tony Kaye (Yes) even tried copying the Hammond settings Ritchie used, but it still didn't sound the same, much to Tony's puzzlement. What he needed was a left hand as strong as his right. 

Did not know this was public knowledge..Billy told me that many times


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 17:25
Originally posted by Alberto Muņoz Alberto Muņoz wrote:

Dave Stewart have the most sinister tones of any album of any prog artist to date.
I was gonna say..........Dave Stewart is No. 1 for Hammond. Keith was stupendous with his Hammonds, but Dave - that solo at the beginning of Dreams Wide Awake - Keith was never that wild - or perhaps a different 'wild' , but never played as ripping as Dave. Still love Tarkus - Iconoclast - that Hammond is ALIVE !!


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 17:31
Originally posted by Baggra Baggra wrote:

Originally posted by Alberto Muņoz Alberto Muņoz wrote:

Dave Stewart have the most sinister tones of any album of any prog artist to date.




That might as well be, but this thread is about Hammond.
 

Dave used the lowly Lowrey.

 

(One of the few times he got his hands on a Hammond was the demos for Nigel Planer's "Heavy Concept Album" lp.)
Dave used a Hammond - Mike Ratledge used the Lowrey. And a big thumbs up for the wonderful Heavy Concept Album - more folks need this


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 17:39
I've always preferred the way Jon Lord abuses a Hammond:




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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 18:01
Didn't Jon have some sort of ring modulator rigged up to his Hammond ?? And cranked it to 11
. His solo in Fireball is way cool, feedback and all.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 20:59
In terms of Hammond demons, my go to guy probably has to be Hugh Banton of Van Der Graaf Generator, especially during the Pawn Hearts-era.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 25 2016 at 21:44
^ Loved his combo of Hammond and Farfisa organs - such a broad palette of tonal colours


Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: June 26 2016 at 02:25
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Dave Stewart on The Polite Force?  I am not certain about what all equipment he was using, but this is some nasty keyboard playing. 



I do prefer Stewart's playing to Emerson's as such.  I feel Emerson didn't show much growth from his initial, revolutionary burst.  Stewart's playing on the Khan album after this, then Hatfield and finally National Health at the end of the same decade all show varied influences and developments in his style. 

Same with me. To me, Dave Stewart is an underappreciated maestro and one of the most gifted musicians I have ever heard play.
As opposed to Wakeman, Sinclair, and Emerson, who used B3/C3 type organ, Stewart used a so called spinet model (L-122), similarly to Rick Wright (M-100), Thijs Van Leer, Hugh Banton or Tony Banks to name a few. These give a much smoother, brighter sound, and less what you might associate with jazz or soul, but rather with church organ. I've found that these models tend to react better with fuzz, hence Stewart's nasty fuzzed out, bulldozer-like organ tones. Long Piece No. 3 is a perfect display of various sounds he was able to achieve.

But yeah, Tarkus is a perfect demonstration of where the great late Keith Emerson could go with his organ. I particularly like the percussive sound of his Hammond.


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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 26 2016 at 03:27
This, especially since the bass line is played on the Hammond as well:


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: June 26 2016 at 07:57
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Emerson did actually compose the instrumental sections on a piano and then transferred it to Hammond.


ooh I'd like to hear the piano originals, or a new piano-based version.. c'mon Keith, revisit the old xenarthran !
Ah...you do know Keith is no longer with us right??


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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 26 2016 at 08:06
Vincent Crane had an awesome tone on Crazy World Of Arthur Brown and the Atomic Rooster debut. Kind of 'rickety' and 'squeaky', if you get what I'm trying to say.....
For me, I think that ELP's rendition of Mussorgsky tops Tarkus by a hair.


Posted By: lak611
Date Posted: July 01 2016 at 19:55
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Emerson did actually compose the instrumental sections on a piano and then transferred it to Hammond.


ooh I'd like to hear the piano originals, or a new piano-based version.. c'mon Keith, revisit the old xenarthran !
Ah...you do know Keith is no longer with us right??
It looks like this old thread got revived. That post was made in 2010.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 01 2016 at 20:23
^ Thank you -


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: July 07 2016 at 12:16
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

"Tarkus" is one of the greatest prog epics ever written, and I agree- the organ is awesome throughout.

It really is. The first time I heard it I was blown away. Every time I have subsequently heard it, I've been blown away. 


Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: July 10 2016 at 22:22
100% Tarkus freak here..............

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Posted By: lak611
Date Posted: July 10 2016 at 23:54
I really like the live versions of Tarkus from YouTube as well. There was one that had really good sound despite tilting the camera upside down a few times. 


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 11 2016 at 00:03
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

"Tarkus" is one of the greatest prog epics ever written, and I agree- the organ is awesome throughout.

Aye.


Posted By: Son.of.Tiresias
Date Posted: October 11 2016 at 14:31
Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:



Who is she ? Please enlighten.


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Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: November 14 2016 at 05:12
Is she performing 'Tarkus'?


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 14 2016 at 08:42
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

"Tarkus" is one of the greatest prog epics ever written, and I agree- the organ is awesome throughout.

I will 2nd that.

Lovely album and you can still put it on, and it still floors you with its strength.


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com



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