Is ProgArchives too progressive for its own good?
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Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75626
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 18:48
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Topic: Is ProgArchives too progressive for its own good?
Posted By: altaeria
Subject: Is ProgArchives too progressive for its own good?
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:13
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Over the last couple years or so, I've found myself referring to ProgArchives less and less. As the site's library of bands becomes more and more extensive, the spectrum of reviewers seems to become much more expansive. Although that sounds like a good thing on the surface, it kinda defeats the purpose of (what once was) a generally like-minded niche community. For albums that I am familiar with, I don't feel like I relate to many of the opinions posted about them these days... and so it has become more difficult for me to utilize reviews of unfamiliar albums as dependable reference tools. When I see legendary 70s prog albums being reviewed as "totally overrated" or "full of pretentious filler" and given 1 or 2 stars-- then I'm not sure that I get the point of the site anymore. If multiple people are completely trashing legitimate classic albums by Yes or King Crimson (for example), then why bother reading on? I can get those types of opinions from PunkArchives or GrungeArchives. Oh well. (sigh)  |
Replies:
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:19
| I understand your point, but you're wrong in assuming that people rate low certain prog classics because they're fans of other kinds of progressive music, or not progressive fans at all (speaking of this, I don't believe there is anyone who reviewed albums on PA without being a fan of at least one of the categories on PA; punkers don't come to PA to rate down prog classics, that's stupid). Many of the people here who don't like, say, ITCOTCK or Close To The Edge don't rate them low because they're not prog fans, but because they don't like those albums. I can't understand what's not to like about them, but I can definitely accept the idea. De gustibus! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:36
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
altaeria wrote:Posted By: popeyethecat
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:40
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I think some people just get very excitable with their ratings. I generally only use 2, 3 and 4. And some people have got into a section of prog that they like, but then trash other sections very easily. This is the danger of websites that get big, I suppose! It starts to attract too many people. I have only reviewed one album on ProgArchives. It's one of my favourites and I only gave it a 4 because this is ProgArchives...if it had been a metal site I would have given it 5 straight away, no doubt about it. And then there are others who are very prolific with opinions based on only 1 or 2 listens :S This is probably a case of those who make themselves heard the most...and it doesn't represent the number of people, I don't think? But yeah, I hear you. The site is so broad that I actually pretty much left the forums a little confounded for about a year. But I'm creeping back a bit...so it has got some things going for it ;) Progressive music is just so broad! ------------- 
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:44
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An album might have had a significant impact on prog and might be considered to be a classic, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Actually, ITCOTCK is a 2 star album. ------------- 
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Posted By: javier0889
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:51
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The divergence of opinions is what makes this kind of websites
interesting, Without it, internet forums like this one wouldn't have a
reason to exist,,, Yeah, there might be some people who love or hate
certain bands or records, and they express those feelings through the
reviews posted here, but you can do that too... We have the right to
decide and show our opinions, obviously with the appropiate respect...
As far as I'm concerned, we still live in a democratic society.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889 |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:54
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It would be shockingly dull if we all had the same opinions, and the site does a good job in weeding out the more obvious trolls. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:56
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But isn't the point of a community that not everybody has the same opinions? I love a lot of the classics, don't get me wrong, but there will be albums that people don't like, and it's incredibly unfair to discount these people's opinions just because you don't agree with them. I'm of the opinion that far too many reviewers here see the older albums with rose tinted glasses, they are good, but not that good. ITCOTCK is in fact a 2 star album, (as stated above) but only in my view, in the same way that the new prog, that you don't connect with, is also allowed to be five star. If we say that 70s 'classics' as you call them are exempt from critic, then the entire point of a community is completely lost.... If you wanted a 70s prog fan club then you've come to the wrong place, and that's completely counter intuitive to what prog stands for.
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 09:58
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I don't think many of the prog classics are underrated. A low rating once in a while won't hurt to much, though I myself like the classic prog era very much. Perhaps the problem has indeed more to do with the expansion of the progressive genre and the huge amount of new bands that has been added (often rightfully). I myself would wish you could put PA in 'classic prog' mode, which would exclude every band from after '79. I don't think it will every come to existence. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:01
Add ten years to reach 1989, and you could almost be Walter in disguise  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:16
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I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion and we need a divergence of opinions. Personally(and I am not the only one) I don't like the way the 2020-2011 top looks. I think it has too much metal/experimental , and there are enough metal sites, but that's how it is, so I filter out the metal and fusion(whithch also isn't my cup of tea)concentrate on what I like in prog.Another feeling I have is that in the metal/experimental area the 5 stars are thrown too easily(maybe because some really masterpieces that could be a reference point are missing in this categories). Regarding ITCOTKC, I am not a big KC fan but I wouldn' rate it 2 stars, IMHO you have to judge an album in its historical context and for sure young people(mostly) might like less the "classics" . So as a conclusion there are a lot ogf good things in PA, everyone should go for what he likes and ignore the rest. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:16
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Being "progressive" I think any new members should really check out the free download albums we offer and really branch out in all possible directions. I entered ProgArchives as symph prog fan, but I am now mostly into everything I did not like before I became a member here. In short; become a member and then branch out into all possible genres we offer. Check my signature, btw. That's the honest truth about ProgArchives. |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:17
You can do that fairly easily by going to the TOP 2010-2011 page and change the range of years from 1970 to 1975. Don't bother with post 75 music.  If you select a specific sub then it becomes even more useful, though some unpopular genres have some strange results due to hate-ratings (Tago Mago is a good example) |
Posted By: PlumAplomb
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:17
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isn't the point of prog being progressive anyway? i would think you'd want a huge forum of varying opinions. i was talking to tricertopsoil the other day as to why my girls tori amos and bjork were on this site, ive been a fan of both of them for fifteen plus years and they are def not prog rock but he explained to me that they were progressive artists, so i get it now and i see nothing wrong with a growing site where people learn other types of music if they are so inclined. i came here because i wanted to understand prog more so i came to the best :)
------------- la la la and a bottle of plum!  and when it lands will my eyes be closed or open? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:20
Problem is that if this place is supposed to be "Progressive Archives" instead of Prog Archives then it's missing at least 1000 bands |
Posted By: Curutchet
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:22
| I don't think some people 'trash' classic albums. Or atleast, I don't think it's a problem. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and when you get too addicted to prog, you don't accept that some other people simply don't like some albums that are considered "classic". For example, I'm in love with all the prog from the 70s (and this comes from a guy who has more than 500 prog albums); I love the first 3 King Crimson albums, but I really don't like "Red" and "Discipline" which are somewhat considered "classic" albums. However, I would only give them 2 stars (maybe 3). |
Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:25
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Posted By: Philius Maximus
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 10:50
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Interesting question, and I do know what you mean - many of us regard a certain period - early to mid 70's as a "Golden Era of Prog" and many of my favourite albums are from this era. But as time goes on and younger members join I guess their perspective will be different - some probably look back to their youth when the music of the "good old days" that they love would have been (say) the early Marillion, Pallas, Pendragon albums etc. For them the likes of Fragile, Selling England... etc will mean nothing, and I don't think that really matters. Add to that the fact that "Prog" has become an umbrella term for so many sub genres some of which have very little in common with each other, and so I think it's not surprising that opinions are going to differ so much. Although I tend to favour the "classic prog" era more I have found ProgArchives essential as a guide to help track down newer music that I am likely to enjoy. I just think it's a question of using a bit of common sense - you can usually tell from peoples reviews whether a particular album is likely to appeal, whether the reviewer likes it or not. I say "come one come all!! |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 11:35
| One thing I always tend to keep in mind while reading a review, is that it's somebody's opinion, and I don't necessarily have to agree with it or accept it as the all in all. This is one of the reasons I like progressive music, artists don't care about critics opinions, or what is in fashion, they write the music they want, follow their inspiration, and are not too concern about being accepted by the mass media, or individual opinions you can find in forums like P A. So if someone wants to trash "Thin k as a Brick" or "Selling England by the Pound" , while respecting their opinion, I understand that's how they feel, but it doesn't have to influence the way I feel about the music, and certainly I will not like it any less based upon their feelings. |
Posted By: EnderEd
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 11:49
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I think when people give a low rating to a time-defined classic, it's basically either because they think it's cool being contrarian, or probably don't realize that a rating something's quality is not the same thing as rating it for personal likability. I personally don't like growl, so Haken's "Aquarius" this year is not in my own top ten list. BUT, I would never say it isn't a four-star album. I've listened to it a few times, read the reviews, and understand completely why it deserves those accolades. I feel the same way about Univers Zero's "Clivages"-- GREAT album, but I don't like it. Maybe it's a generational thing? Equating value with subjectivism? ------------- --EnderEd |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 11:53
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Posted By: PlumAplomb
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:01
thats like me saying (and this is true) i can care less about the godfather, sure it's not a bad movie but not my kind of movie, that being said i wouldnt let the fact that a hundred million people adore affect my review on it;. same with wizard of oz, a movie ive seen a million times but have never liked, i keep trying to like it i do but i have so many problems with it. i do like certain things about it though. and yes to the dude that said there should be more bands on here if this were 'progressive archives', there is no way i will ever consider Tori Amos 'crossover prog' or whatever you call it here:) i'm guessing though that those decisions were made a for a reason here. anyone know why? ------------- la la la and a bottle of plum! and when it lands will my eyes be closed or open? |
Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:10
YES. SO TRUE. I mean, how freaking awful is Moonchild? Seriously. Anyway, this is a silly opinion... I haven't even noticed this. "Classic" albums are still ungodly overrated. And if you're going to leave a site because a couple of people gave your favourite album a 2 star rating... then you a very silly. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile 
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Posted By: AllP0werToSlaves
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:17
| ...nothing is as silly as debating personal opinion as empirical fact, especially about something as subjective as art. Use the site to learn about bands, find new bands, and discuss with members. I feel like people are getting so caught up in the details of everything on this site (genres, etc) that they forget to enjoy the music... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:36
We are still a like minded community. We are not and never will be an identical minded community. I really get tired of the nit picking. Of course I don't care for bull crap comments like overrated and pretentious. The simple solution is just to ignore that kind of nonsense. This site remains a good source for me. I've yet to get a personal recommendation for an artist that I didn't like when I tried them. I don't get bent if changes are made that I don't agree with. I don't get bent if artists are added I don't care for or don't believe belong here. Why do you need to relate to the opinions anyway? They are just opinions. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 12:45
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I appreciate this site because for example, members here understand the aspects of a band like THE KINKS having progressive elements within their writing. People here understand that what the BEACH BOYS were doing in 67' had little to do with surf music and all to do with Sgt. Peppers. Proto Prog I suppose? 10CC is appreciated here.
Pop sensitivity combined with progressive elements within those band's historical music has always been linked in with band's that produce a heavy outward non-creative cheap contrived rock style. People don't seem to catagorize them that way on P.A. The bands I've mentioned don't deserve to be linked into cheapness. I go from Beach Boys "Smile" and Todd Rundgren to Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Alquimia, Neuronium, Popol Vuh and Biosphere. I can't grab that diversity of opinions on music from other prog sites. So it seems. There are younger members on this site who can't get the gist of I.T.C.O.T.C.K. and I can most humbly relate. It is a precious gem that subsides in the past. It is a piece of history no doubt. But it grows tired like the rest of past efforts. It doesn't by any means remain timeless like a Holst piece. I agree that people are caught up on details too much and can't find the enjoyment and understanding of what a prog band has to offer. I for one observe many detailed aspects of bands like Camel and long to share conversation with others in that aspect. My curious nature with bands like Wishbone Ash and many others etc. I have learned so many new things that mark the history of Krautrock since I came here. I grew up with Cosmic Jokers and the rest when the music itself first touched base with the public and yet....there is always more to learn from the members here that may not be printed in a bio. In that special way the P.A. site is golden opportunity for me. People sometimes have negative points about the reviews. People that post the reviews practically bend over backwards to do research and I respect that. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 13:05
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I think people should refrain from reviewing and rating albums from a style / subgenre they don't like as a principle.
I am mostly a symphonic / eclectic / jazz-fusion fan and as such I feel entitled to say that a symphonic album I find bad deserves 1 or 2 stars IMHO.
However for example I purchased Maudlin of the Well's Leaving Your Body Map and Godspeed You BE's Lift Your Skinny Fists because of their high appreciation and I do not like them, sorry I'm not really into Post Rock / Post Metal / Math.
But I am not going to review them and give them 1 or 2 stars, I simply refrain from reviewing or rating them, because I am aware that I do not like them not because they are bad albums but because the genre doesn't really appeal much to me. Maybe one day I will give them a few more spins and they will click, who knows.
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Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 13:59
That's probably one of the reasons that we see so many Post Rock/Metal/Math in the top-because people who like the "straight:" prog don't bother to rate them, but people who like these genres give low rates to the more "traditional" genres because they consider them not enough "sophisticated" like the genres they love. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 14:13
Honestly, that would be your loss.
In general, this is not the most "intelectual site" or the most academic ... but it IS the only site that is more complete and less choosy about what can be listed, and in the end, they accept other people's opinions WAYYYYYY better than almost all the other Progressive sites out there, that in my book, are "trendy" and "finicky" and sometimes overly "academic" and ... not very good academic'y at that ... very poor grades from a lot of professors on that one -- because it is one of those ... only this makes it that ... and that's that!
I have thought something similar, and I would prefer that this group make a selection for reviewers and stick to it. The idea of everyone being able to do a review is fine, but in the end, some people are not reviewers, although it would be totally incorrect to say they do not have something to say ... but in the end, someone saying right below three really good reviews that ... "it's crap" ... kinda makes things not look very good, or at least that the editors and admins simply can not keep up with the whole thing. But yeah ... in my book that is bad.
THAT IS NOT A REVIEW. THAT IS AN OPINION.
And should be removed from the review section. I have no issues with that opinion being in the forums. I do with it being in the review section. And this is where the folks in charge, are not able, or have the time, to sift through the information to make that call.
Basically, they should have ALL reviewers sign an agreement for the 3 or 4 things required on the review, and that personal opinions or downgrading comments do not necessarily a review make. But if one can get past their opinion and explain what they see, that's another story ... but then, the opinion is not necessary! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 14:16
With all respect; I take the opposite view. Ratings in ProgArchives, accumulated together and so forth, is meant to reflect the views of the whole community. Not the few who are into this and this genre. But in any case; it is really only the bands who knows their albums well enough to rate it, if we are truthfully enough. Do we really need the five Yes members five stars reviews of their debut album........ and no other reviews of that album ? Is that a community ? I don't think so. No, please go freely out and write any reviews you desire of any bands and any genre. That is your right in ProgArchives. Feel free to use it......... but I cannot force you to use this right. But please review a Post Rock album. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 14:37
And, in a way, there is only one concern ... that in due time, it is all a Top Ten, and Progressive will die ... because it became a popularity contest. Might as well rate Rush and someone else progressive, and dump the rest, because not enough folks listen to enough different things to even know, understand, or even have some respect, for other countries, other work and other views.
I agree that I would want the popular opinion, but I also think that there are many times when the popular view is counter productive, in both a good and bad way ... and that is a by-product of the situation, and not wrong, or right ... but the parties have to agree ... which in many countries they DON'T and fight to the death for it or against it. And sometimes, maybe it's best they don't have that choice, so you can have a reasonable sense of peace? ... I came from a Fascist country and father was a literatii that was also being chased around for his film reviews and "freedom poetry" ... and this subject is something I can talk about all day -- I prefer not to -- but it shows up on my writings in other subtle ways having to do with choice. Portugal was the bad case after the dictatorship went ... all of a sudden you had Christin Puddings fighting the Christian Socialists and the Christian Democrats and the Christian Souffles, and no one can agree on anything ... and the whole thing was/is so pathetic to the point of being ... just a bunch of people that have no ability, or desire, to work together to make something better ... their way is always better and the rest is stupid.
Leadership is a bitch ... you can't win ... you do something that is right today, and tomorrow it's wrong, or vice versa. But I believe in one thing that has no color, no ideas and no stupidity ... th elove and desire to improve things for everyone ... and if someone is not interested in that ... that is their problem. But they should NOT, be interfering with the others and disrupt the attempts at doing good work.
Parallel that you might like ... what do you think that Jesus of Nazareth fought for? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 14:44
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I disagree with you. Opinion IS a part of a review...any review. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: PlumAplomb
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 15:20
aww, i love moonchild :) i think it's beautiful, i might get into it too much cos the whole cancer ruled by the moon thing, but the music stands alone spirituality aside:) but its nice that opinions are so variedh ere, like slarti said - like minded not identical' ------------- la la la and a bottle of plum! and when it lands will my eyes be closed or open? |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 15:34
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I can't speak for others, but in my case when I registred here KC and Genesis among other classics, were some of my top favourite bands, but as I started to listen to more diveresed music, I realised that my ears were enjoying other things better than KC or Genesis. I also want everybody to share the same musical preference as me.  ------------- Property of Queen Productions... 
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 15:52
I will never enjoy Stormwatch. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 15:54
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Certainly unsubstantiated opinion is different than a well-thought out review. But taste always plays a part. I love classic symph and there are some great new symph bands (I love Moon Safari's Blomljud). But symph is rarely progressive in 2011. Part of the same tastes that attracted me to classic prog attract me to modern acts that are trying something new. And this site provides me with that as good or better than any other I've found. And the fact that I've listened to alot of music in my day means I'm going to have to do some sifting no matter what data source I use for info.
I've found albums from Khan's Space Shanty to Edge of Sanity's Crimson to Ash Ra Tempel's debut from this site, all personal favorites that are completely different in sound. At the same time, I don't like related classics like Can or Caravan, and most harsh vocals put me off. I review them all.
Between the weighted reviews based on collaborator status and shear numbers, I think things shake out ok in the end.
Again, I think the best way to get reasonable advise is find about five to ten regular reviewers that write well, and include some whose taste is like yours and some who differ. Read their reviews, maybe weight in the numbers a little, and I think you're going to have a reasonable idea what to expect. And there's almost always at least one clip on youtube or elsewhere to sample at least a song before you buy.
It works for me. And I buy alot of music. Probably 85% of it I discover here. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:22
Omg I hate you! How can you do this to me?  ------------- Property of Queen Productions...
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:24
omg no I didn't mean to hurt you I was just teasing you a bit I'm so sorry k  -------------
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Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:25
You mean it?  ------------- Property of Queen Productions...
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:26
Of course I mean it. You know I do respect you as a person, right? -------------
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Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:28
No. No, I don't. ------------- Property of Queen Productions...
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:29
Well, I do. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:31
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Get a room, kiddies. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:33
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Not untill he'll start enjoying Stormwatch. (woohoo! that's never!)
------------- Property of Queen Productions...
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:35
| I haven't heard Stormwatch, but I'd probably enjoy it. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:37
You probably would because it is no less than 3.5 stars. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 18:58
Can't help but agree with this. I, for one, don't like most of Genesis' output, Tresspass and Nursery Crime excepted, so I'll obviously rate them low. -------------   
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:53
I can to a certain extent understand the rationale here i.e. if you don't like eggs then not even a state of the art omelette is gonna convince you otherwise BUT it should be self evident from reading just a handful of reviews from any genre on PA that you learn more about the listener than what is being listened to. Some reviewers are more objective than others but no one reviewer can ever be purely objective about an aesthetic phenomena such as music. How can we call ourselves gourmets if we choose the same dish from the menu every time we visit the restaurant? ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 21:47
Stormwatch was basically the end of an era for Tull, I like it. Haven't reviewed it yet I think. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: TheOppenheimer
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:53
+1 why dont you let everyone vote and rate albums as they think they should vote and rate? why do i have to like classic prog albums like you? besides, i dont see any "legendary" album NOT sitting on the top of the lists. ------------- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio. |
Posted By: El Pollo Guerrera
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 23:33
Of course, if you narrow your focus like that, then you might miss a lot of really good music that those reviewers wouldn't have touched, or that they didn't like but you might prefer...
Personally, I do you this site's ratings as a reference, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all for my music buying decisions. That's YouTube. I find a song or three from the album I'm looking at and actually listen to it.
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 00:57
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If you removed the word progressive from that question and replace it with another 11 letter word starting with P then I would say absolutely. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Aunty Ethel
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:05
| I don't really see the point in reading loads of reviews that agree with everything you say about an album. What is the point? It just affirms what you know. I prefer reading a critique of something I like to see what would make someone take the opposite stance - this holds far more interest to me. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:51
I must say that I partially agree with you....
At first I viewed favourably the prog-related insertions that opened the spectrum and liked that they actually irked soooo much some of the prog purists (some even insulted me because I was for introducing the JR/F genre, but that's another side of the debate)
I'd say that the real breaking point came when Zeppelin was added in prog-related.... it seemed that from then on, anything could be included, and we had to create an Admins-only acceptation team in order to stop the floodgates from be wide opened and washed away by the current.
and that problem also spread to other full-blown prog genres as well... But I'll keep quiet on this subject that's ruffled quite a few feathers behind closed doors
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:08
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I'm not annoyed by the inclusion of non-prog bands to the site anywhere close to as annoyed as I am by the idiots who constantly give incredibly low ratings to albums they even admit are great but "they're not prog and thus deserve to be punished". Which has given way to some really WTF ratings.
My advice is, if you're gonna keep complaining about non prog artists being added, STOP REQUESTING FOR THEM TO BE ADDED.
Otherwise it seems like people only want to add non prog artists just to have an excuse to rant about how awful everything non prog is. And to have an excuse to rate Beatles albums below Dream Theater albums, something that is deservedly illegal everywhere else on the internet. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:19
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^ I'm more annoyed by list manipulation.
------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:21
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People can do that? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:22
Seconded. Besides, everybody knows that Dream Theter is better than any of those boring bands from the 60's. They can't even shred! -------------
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:26
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Dream Theater is my berzerk button. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:36
LOL, weboo. -------------
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Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:39
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I think you mean Weeaboo. How do you misspell a word like that? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 07:46
Because if you were you would prove my point, which you did. lol -------------
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Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:34
| Progarchives is not enough progressive for its own good |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:54
Translation: I'm bothered by opinions that are counter to mine, so I quit. Oh, I see the OP never bothered to re-visit. Yet another troll, and another waste of time.
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 10:33
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I think what the first post is trying to say is that some people here, for attention, recognition, whatever... purposefully exaggerate their opinion to get a response....... like they might think ITCOTKC is not so great.... maybe not 5 star... but they review it only 1 star to make themselves look like they know more about music than everyone else on the site. The OP meant this, I think, but made his words seem like he just couldn't accept the opinions of others. Also, Prog-related and proto-prog are, although not unnecessary, pointless when, as people have pointed out, they are rated in an odd way because they aren't progressive rock. But what bothers me more is the inclusion of every single album a band has done, when in some cases only a small fraction of their output is prog. Miles Davis' pre-70's albums for example....... a waste of space on this site! Perhaps exceptions be made for the very big prog bands because their influence continues into the later stages of their career. However, I'm not interested in reviewing or reading about some early Rush album when, because they are so popular, even their non-prog stuff gets higher ratings than something less famous that is actually prog rock. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: El Pollo Guerrera
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:17
My point was that if you listen to someone whose opinion parallels yours, you may find music that you hadn't heard that they liked, and based on that you might try it. That being said, I agree with you. I do enjoy reading a thoughtful negative review. Sometimes I agree with points in a negative review. What I like may be different than what the reviewer likes, and sometimes what they see as a negative I would see as a positive. |
Posted By: JT_Productions
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 22:12
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I've thought about this too. I think you need to see what other albums the member has posted reviews on to determine what their personal tastes are. Look at the reviews of member. If he grades albums with positive marks that you feel are albums you'd rank highly you're likely to find someone who could steer you toward music you've never heard that you may love. That what I use the site for. Finding good new music to enjoy. If it's two years old or twenty, heavy or light as a feather, I like it all. You'll probably find you have nothing musically in common with someone who trashes "Close to the Edge," It is my favorite albums of all time but music like opinions are so varied and reviewers are so subjective. I'm guilty of begging Prog Archives to include Jimi Hendrix to the site. Was that wrong? I don't think so. I want other to have a chance at finding music they may enjoy. I found so many cool bands that I never would have known existed like Opeth, Khan, and Caravan. Search out some cool new music. Stick around ------------- https://soundcloud.com/metallicsun |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 22:42
thank you-- their absence speaks volumes |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 20:38
Nahhh ... your sunglasses are not dark enough!  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 20:45
Too bad you never lived in a Fascist country to know what a statement like that could do to you or your family!
What one ended up learning is using that as a sub-text, but you never, stated the opinion out right, because ... it would hurt!
But this is the land of freedom, and everyone thinks that "freedom" means you can say "crap" about everything you don't like ...
I give ... it's better than the fascism ... but not that much better after a while! ... because there is a difference, and you are not looking at it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 20:54
| I think Moshkito is too progressive for progarchives |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 21:09
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 21:34
I think he often says right things. Though I'm not progressive at all, look at my nick. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 03:52
Everything I say you take to absolute extremes. I never said an opinion has to be forceful or to say something is crap has to be anything to do with it. Yes it is too bad I never lived in a fascist country. Jeez, what a dumb comment. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 18:34
It is not an extreme. It is how one person, or another sees it. And it bothers you that someone doesn't agree with you! For which you always drop a left handed fluffy smack!
To me, and I am not sure that you see this, although I am sure you feel similarly, this music is important, as is the art around it. For some of the comments, yours included --SOMETIMES -- I do not feel that you are willing to see the wider picture that would show another art of connection to something else other than ... just something called "progressive music", of which you are certainly one of the knowledgable ones, and I have no issue with that at all.
It is scary, however, when posts like yours, almost entirely disagreeing with Moshkito, rarely has an explanation. You might think that I am wasting words ... and that's fine ... but in the end, you must think that you are protecting your "knowledge" and "beliefs" ... and feeling superior than anyone else.
The music, the art, is all that matters to me. And saying this to you, is not ... to get on your left side or to make you think that I would rather get into slurs and un-needed comments. It is not necessary.
There is a difference between us ... I agree that we can disagree and I defend your right to stand up for your own right ... but you don't respect mine! And that is wrong! And my name is not Voltaire!
Of course it is, when you take it out of context ... you would rather not have any idea what that is about ... trust me ... it's very ugly! ... but you might not like, or enjoy the truth! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 18:42
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Plenty of people don't agree with me. I don't see that as an issue anywhere. I don't really see the point in discussing this any further either. We are poles apart from any understanding of each other, ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 18:48
| Is MoshkitoArchives too progressive for it's own Snow Dog? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 18:49
His posts are too......progressive.....for me....and for all of us! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 16 2011 at 19:22
Took me a while to be able to respond to this ... it goes like this.
If "opinion" becomes a part of the review, the next inevitable problem is ... why is your opinion more important than mine, or vice versa? IN the end, it's like a peter contest! Wow ... I'm sure you're impressed!
But, because you, I and others are experienced reviewers, I think we are given some latitudes as to what the opinion is ... I have had several reviews of films used in a bunch of Film Festivals, and it wasn't so much for my "opinion", as it was the way I wrote it, and how I described it. That description, and wording, is what got those folks excited about adding a film to their Festival, for example. I'm proud of that.
The other one, is the toughest one of all. Gaspar Noe's film "Je Suis Seul" ... it's such an incredible ... amalgamation of sensory assaults, that if you have an opinion, you know what it is? .. it's crap and that's not a film! ... but there it is ... the whole thing is such an intense assault on your senses and perception, specially one's usual takes on film and entertainment, that ... by the time you get done ... there are no words ... and all I can do is ask ... is this good film? ... as conceived yes. is this a brutal film ... yes and then some ... is this an off the wall film ... how else do you describe it? ... but as a cinematic exercise getting you out of your shell and "entertainment" couch? ... this film will blow you out of town! ... it's really hard to even have an opinion on things like this ... and all you can say is ... wonder, and sometimes ask questions, which I am not sure are "opinions" ... in a way, you or I would be trying to figure it out as it is ... which the film maker ... is probably not interested in helping you ... it would take away from the continuity of the film and it's events!
It's a tough area. You're right, there is a lot of "opinion" that probably needs to go in there, albeit, I find that the best reviews are not the ones with the opinions ... are the ones where I showed how the film maker made the film look so good by doing this or that ... and I tend to look at music the same way.
Doesn't mean you are incorrect, because you are not. But, in the end, it takes away the USA Today crap reviews ... that are written strictly to sell the stuff they are paid for, and the stuff that the parent company owns ... and to me that's not an opinion! ... yours is much better and more valid than that! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 16 2011 at 19:23
Snow Dog ... you better remember why you like and remember so many of the bands you do ... !!! it's why they are still considered progressive!
I have always thought of myself as a maverick, but now you done it ... I gonna have to get me an outfit, talk to Jodei Foster and have some fun! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: February 18 2011 at 16:10
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People wouldn't join ProgArchives if they didn't have some musical ground in common with the rest. I sort of like being able to hear such a wide variety of opinions on different albums. Think of how helpful reviews would be if everyone was coming from a single (classic 70s prog) direction, and regarded all other sub-genres as inferior?
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