When listening to 'waiting in the wings' or 'mercy falls', it's hard not to think about images and dreams.

 

That said, I like that band. The great escape is less catchy than the previous albums but still good.

hello anyone

 

Anyone?  ANYONE?  ANYONE?

 

 

There's nothing wrong with voicing a criticism of an artist here; in order to appreciate a band for what they are, we have to acknowledge their weaknesses, also.  You and Caio may have a difference of opinon concerning whether Seventh Wonder is derivative or not, but his opinion being the more "negative" one doesn't mean it's illegitimate or shouldn't be voiced.  It's importatn that we listen to music critically as well as appreciatively; these two types of listening bolster each other and increase our overall understanding of music. 

 

To answer your first question, no, I'm not a fan, as I've never heard any of their material, but they sound like something I would enjoy (but then again, so does everything else on this site! ).  I'll try to check them out, your placing their bass player just below Victor Wooten makes me excited to hear his skill.

My point exactly, thanks man. *brofist*

And, really dtguitarfan, I'm not trashing the guys. Maybe you should read my post(s) more carefully.

Believe me, I've seen stuff like what you're describing, and yes, it's quite irritating and boorish.  But Caio didn't come anywhere close to trashing Seventh Wonder; he made a legitimate criticism of the band, and you can legitimately disagree with him.  He has every right to criticize SW, just as you have every right to criticize maudlin of the Well or any band that you don't like.  If he had posted something like "Seventh Wonder sucks, they just copy every other prog metal band," it would have been one thing.  But instead he admitted their talent and then leveled a criticism of derivativeness, for which he gave several examples.  He didn't ridicule anyone for liking the band, as he admitted that he likes certain bands that have a derivative sound

Even on an appreciation thread, criticism can be beneficial and can actually help us to appreciate a band to the fullest extent; it's hardly "appreciation" to only heap praise on a band without acknowledging their weaknesses, just as it's not respect to a historical figure to brush over their faults and make an idol out of them; in fact, that's an abuse of that person's memory, and it's not history, it's hagiography.  If we had a Martin Luther appreciation thread, for example, it would be unfair to dismiss his anti-Semitic statements.  As a Lutheran, I honor and respect Luther for his bravery and excellent theology, but I also acknowledge that he had faults.  It would be a different matter entirely if someone came on the thread and said "Luther was a terrible person, he hated Jews."  That's being unfair in the opposite direction.

So what I'm saying is that we should engage discussion with those who criticize a band that we like, because we can learn something from that and come to appreciate the band more by acknowledging it's weaknesses.  People who are just trolling, on the other hand, should be ignored, because everyone can tell that they are merely being inflammatory, and if we don't pay any attention to them, they will have no reason to continue their actions, being attention seekers by definition.

Jacob, you are my favorite person in this thread.  

And the Dream Theater comments are here because they are probably the band that I know best besides Pink Floyd. Hell, I car recite most of their albums from start to finish  and have some totally unnecessary merchandise as well (like the cover albums and many other "official" bootlegs)!  

Again, we are not trying to pull you away from the debate, dtguitarfan. Give us some insight on those guys. 

Thanks .

Really, though, Geoff, I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns.  I want to make sure I don't come off that way.  I mean, I was just visiting the VdGG vs PF thread , so I know what you're talking about.  If we're going to try and decrease the negativity on this forum, we have to make sure that we accomodate constructive criticism and reasonable debate so that we can focus more effectively on the real troll-y and insulting stuff.

Anyway, I'm a bit in the dark right now; what exactly is going on with Kamelot (I think you mentioned this above, Geoff) and how is it affecting Seventh Wonder?

There's another band I don't understand. I'm not a big fan either, but they have their share of good albums, which is the case of The Black Halo. Anyway, they were getting better and better with each passing album and then BAM, everything went downhill after Black Halo. What happened?

^^That's a bit different from actually calling them plagiarists.  Admittedly, he did call them the "SX equivalent of Pagan's Mind plagiarism to DT" but if you read the entire post he's quite clear that he considers them talented and appreciates some of their work.  When you see any word used it's important to take it in context, and if you take "plagiarism" in context here it becomes clear that he's not using it provocatively.  Plagiarism is the theft of someone else's intellectual property, and if you read Caio's post it's clear that he doesn't mean that; he's merely misusing the word, which everyone does sometimes and doesn't make his post unacceptable or provocative.  

He made a mistake.  He wasn't trying to be provocative, he just used the wrong word, which had stronger connotations associated with it.  I do that sometimes, and you do too, and so does everybody else.  This word being misused is particularly common, which makes it even more understandable.  I think Caio has made it clear enough by now that he wasn't trying to bash Seventh Wonder.  Every band has to deal with criticism, and I'm sure the guys in the band are used to it by now.  I already explained that criticism was an aid in full appreciation, so this thread is no different.

Quite true. There is an specific term for what I mean in Portuguese, which is my mother tongue, BTW, bit I don't believe there is one in English with the same weight, which is why I said "bears similarities with plagiarism" and not accused them of plagiarism outright. 

I thank you for stepping in and defending my POV, Jacob, but I believe I'll be getting out of this thread. I don't believe there is any way to go further here.

 

If Dream Theater invited them to open their shows, maybe they would get more attention and even be signed on a bigger label.Their musicianship is superb, it's indeed a shame they have so little appreciation.

yes, besides Dream Theater, another obvious influence is a band from their own country, Europe.

With all the due respect, you are overreacting. A lot.

I'm certain of it. Big Elf got a huge deal of attention just because Mike Portnoy decided to give the ma hand.

dtguitarfan wrote: lucas wrote: dtguitarfan wrote:   Waiting in the Wings - this is kind of an "AOR" situation The Great Escape - Another "AOR" deal yes, besides Dream Theater, another obvious influence is a band from their own country, Europe. Who are you thinking?  Someone from Norway?

Oh man. . . .  He means the Swede band Europe, famous for songs such as Final Countdown.

dtguitarfan wrote: CCVP wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: CCVP wrote: Quite true. There is an specific term for what I mean in Portuguese, which is my mother tongue Alright, I can see now how you wouldn't understand why that word would raise fury, and I apologize for bringing it upon you.  But from a native English speaker - you have to be VERY careful how you use that word when talking about anything artistic.  It's almost as bad as accusing someone of doing unspeakable acts to children, as far as art goes. With all the due respect, you are overreacting. A lot. With all due respect, don't say "plagiarism" unless you intend to make a serious accusation.

 

C'mon. You gotta realize that English is not the mother tongue of the world. There are several languages around the globe. And the way I see it , this site is not called "The Anglo Saxon Progressive Rock Archives" It's meant to reunite people all around the world and some of the best prog reviewers and collaborators come from non English speaking countries. So in the end you have to be thankful that you were born in an English speaking country so you don't have the necesity to know other languages to get a job in most occasions.

 

Besides unless you are a relative to SW bandmembers I don't think there is the need to worry that much about stuff like plagiarism (let's rephrase it with "ridiculously influenced by" so we do not hurt anybody's sensibilities.)

 

Sorry if I was a bit too harsh but that's my POV.