Was Benoit David the best Yes could do?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78495
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Topic: Was Benoit David the best Yes could do?
Posted By: cstack3
Subject: Was Benoit David the best Yes could do?
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 19:02
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Grumpy Old Chuck still at it! I passed on seeing this version of Yes at the Chicago House of Blues for a number of reasons, but mostly because I'm not pleased with the vocal performances of Benoit David to date. Having watched hours of recent performances on Youtube, I'd say that the band itself is up to their old stuff (although a bit slower), but David's poor stage presence and difficulty with the material remains a turnoff. I've been fortunate to know a few Yes tribute bands & Yes clones (Starcastle) over the years, and finding a really good, contra-tenor lead vocalist should not have been that hard. For example, check out the performance of Jon Davison (formerly of the Yes trib "Roundabout," and presently with Glass Hammer). Was B. David the best Yes could have done? I think their future as an entity is pretty much riding on that lone decision. Now, "Fly From Here" may be a killer album, rendering all this moot....however, I think they could have found a better front-man and lead vocalist. Thoughts? Check this guy out! |
Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 19:14
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When i saw this version of yes at Janus Landing in Florida, i was very pleased with his performance.
He interacted with the band well, was happy, and played around with the acoustic alot.
And, in my opinion he does his job cloning Anderson's vocals.
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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 20:57
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Hmm, I think I might be with you Cstack3 on Benoit. This music deserves a singer who amazes.
-------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 00:54
| I like Benoit a lot more than that guy. Though I really don't care about a band that's nearly 40 years past their prime |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 02:29
Really? I'd be embarrassed to share a stage with the guy, based on this clip! It's footage like this that has kept me well-clear of Benoit David/Yes. His voice is sort-of reminiscent of Anderson. However, he pales compared to guys like Steve Carney from UK's Fragile and others I've met. I thought Davison's pitch was right on the money. Considering the grace & elegance that JA always brought to the stage, I'd have a hard time coughing up their asking price for tickets. I agree with American Khatru, Yes' music needs extraordinary talent at all levels, not just "good enough." Where Yes used to book the largest venues in Chicago, now they are playing bars and casinos. I'm not sure this was a smart move by Squire. |
Slaughternalia wrote:Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 06:11
(A bit o/t...) It is weird to me I have to say. I remember thinking - when I was a kid in the seventies and into all this stuff (a little kid, so we're talking albums and not concerts) - I remember almost the day (I know it was summer recess) that the shocking thought occurred to me that these musicians whose music I loved, the people in the photos, were all going to age, like I surely would, and be old men one day. Sure, I know, it's obvious, but it hit me like a ton of bricks that day. I tried in mind mind to picture an agéd Robert Plant, an agéd Ian or Jon Anderson (okay, well, picturing IA old was never all that difficult  ). And I wondered what they would be doing with themselves, as I assumed, after music.I don't say this judgmentally, but the one thing I didn't picture was that they would still be out there playing; much less did I picture that if some people dropped out, for reasons from differences to getting that "gig in the sky", they would be replaced by young musicians and the band play on. I did not imagine this! I confess that, to my younger mind, the idea would have presented itself only as a nightmare. I can defend it as good just based on the fact that the music was and is indeed great. Compositions used to sustain themselves one way in past eras (say the European aristocratic times with classical music patronage and virtuosi); maybe this is the way classic rock (whether of prog stripe or some other) sustains itself into the future. Picture, for instance, 'Yes' without a single original member in 10 or so years. The thing may become: how to determine how an act is "official." If that's to work at all and continue, the musicians must be superlative, otherwise interest will wane. ------------- Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 06:33
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They should have recruited James LaBrie.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 06:40
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Considering that The Flower Kings are on hiatus, Hasse Froberg would have been perfect.
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 06:47
| Sean Filkins would have been a good replacement. But on the other hand, i don't think he would have made is first brillant solo album. I am ok with Benoit David, maybe it's not the perfect voice and personnality, but i pay more attention to the music, so it's not a big factor for me, and i don't think his singing ruin the music. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 06:54
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Roger Hodgson was asked once -------------  
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Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 08:43
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Personally, I prefer David Benoit. I'm just sayin' ------------- -------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob------- I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 10:01
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His name is Benoit. Discussion over.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:06
Benoit David is correct, NOT David Benoit! I admit, it's confusing. Discussion over? Hah!! I take no pleasure in watching one of the most influential bands in prog history deteriorating in this manner. Where Yes used to play the largest venues, now they are booking gigs at casinos. The tour with Styx (and, weirdly, a band called "Toy") gives them as much credibility as a reunion of REO Speedwagon. So '70s. I see no reason why they could not have jumped off into a much more progressive direction, rather than doing a "Yes-mania" cover band thing. Thanks for suggesting some excellent vocalists, I also thought that a woman would have been very progressive. Annie Haslam's version of "Turn of the Century" is stunning, and the band Magenta does a very nice treatment of "Wondrous Stories". Of course, Squire would try to couple with a singer as gorgeous as Christina Booth!!  All things considered, I can think of at least a dozen other vocalists I'd rather pay money to see play with Yes than Benoit David. The upcoming CD should be interesting....perhaps I will eat my words, but I bet not. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:12
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Why are people still posting when the discussion is over?
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:14
This was my review of their show from a couple of years ago, when they were sort of touring as In The Present instead of as Yes. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53661&KW=Yes&PID=3052978#3052978" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53661&KW=Yes&PID=3052978#3052978 I see that was during my phase of mistyping TFTO as TOTO. 
I've not decided yet whether or not I am going to see them play with the Dennis DeYoung-less Styx yet or not. ------------- 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:24
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I wish Yes would take Jon Davison. Might make Glass Hammer listenable again.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:38
That's hilarious! I'm not that familiar with Glass Hammer, and the guy has some pipes from the "Roundabout" bit posted on YouTube, but strong contra-tenors can be obnoxious! Terry Lutrell from Starcastle was like that (I knew the guy). Are you familiar with the trib "Fragile" in the UK? They do a very nice treatment of Yes' catalog including "Tales"! Very nice chaps. I think this is a very valid discussion to continue, since (a) it is controversial within the family of Yes fans and prog community, (b) the financial future of Yes and, perhaps, prog in general may hinge on the decision to part ways with a wildly popular vocalist for a gamble on an unknown, and (c) there is a plethora of talent available who could have been chosen. For a forum that posts arcane competitions such as "ELP or Yes?" I think this is worth discussing at a high level. When Yes gambled with the "Drama" lineup, I don't think that worked out well for them, commercially. This is an interesting process to watch unfold.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 11:57
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You were right to open a discussion, and you are right about Benoit David - yes, they could have done a lot better, or, more to the point, they could have retired the great group gracefully and left us with some remarkable memories. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 12:14
Thank you! I would have agreed with retiring the band gracefully with the decision of Jon Anderson to forego the brutal touring that Yes undergoes. All of those gents are getting up there, it must be a grind. The decision to drag this out rather mystifies me.....was it the need for cash? Squire's side projects never work out (Conspiracy with Billy Sherwood for one), and Howe already has a good side-gig with Asia if he wants. Granted, the musicality of the band remains at a high level, although many have pointed out that the tempo of the music suffers due to age (presumably) of the artists. I avoid the present Yes since I have such wonderful memories of the 35th Anniversary tour, when they sold out the largest venue in Chicago (Allstate Arena) and put on one of the best performances I'd ever seen! They hammed it up with a honky-tonk version of "Roundabout," the laughs were frequent and genuine, and the band truly seemed to appreciate one another. We'll see what "Fly From Here" is like, meanwhile I'm enjoying the Youtube footage of Jon Anderson's acoustic tour! Looking forward to that show in August. Notice how Jon drops a hint about the possibility of a future "Olias" performance? |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 15:04
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Benoit does an excellent job for what he is supposed to do, which is mimic JA. ------------- 
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 15:19
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I agree that Steve Carney is amazing, a great "Jon" but also has a soul of his own.......... I'm not familiar with any other Yes mimics though. Maybe we should wait 'til the new album before we judge Benoit........ he may be inferior to Jon but there can be no comparison on the new songs; they will belong to him, vocally. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 15:26
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Begs the question could Genesis have done better than Ray Wilson??
I have been on the fence with buying tickets for the Yes/Styx show myself, for this reason. And also no Dennis DeYoung.......Only reason I would go is for the venue which is at a winery on the Columbia River....absolutely amazing venue.....and the wine is good too!
I probably will not go..but still on the fence. I have to say the only group comes to mind recently that did an amazing job at finding a replacement lead vocalist was Journey, that Filipino guy is amazing!! If you close your eyes.....its Steve Perry. -------------   
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 15:49
Excellent, thank you! I agree, the proof will be in the new CD. However, I think Yes really has only one shot at keeping fans they alienated with their treatment of Anderson (i.e. me), so it better be a blazingly good CD! And I have to wonder, who is writing the lyrics? The track titles don't inspire confidence thus far. Dorset, eh? I used to live & work in Devon, just outside of Exeter....my work associate, Mr. Crawley, did my dirty work and found Bob and Toyah Fripp's home phone number in Wimbourne! I left a message, they never called me back!! (I'd met with RF several times, he probably thought I was a stalker or bill collector). Here's a nice taste of Steve Carney with Fragile! Love these guys, we've been friends for 10 years. Considering all the joint appearances they've done with members of Yes, I'm surprised they weren't approached (unless they were, and Steve turned them down). |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 16:10
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Despite living some 10 miles away from Fripp (well, not since he moved).... my only contact with him has been through the internet; he had a go at me for insulting him on this very site actually! I have relatives who supposedly dated Greg Lake, who went to my school......... Anyway back on topic........ Fragile are a truly excellent group and yes, they have worked with Howe and White haven't they? So Yes must have at least considered them. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 20:40
| I too would rather have seen Yes finding an excellent singer who may not have resembled Anderson that much but who had a very strong personality and uniqueness, than an attempted Anderson clone who, in the end, doesn't have the same quality and uniqueness Anderson has. I'm really interested in what Benoit will do on the new studio album, hoping he finds his own identity instead of still trying to imitate Anderson's style (though I guess the final decision on this matter will be Squire's). Indeed, the final judgement shall be taken when the new album is released. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 20:52
Ha, great story about Fripp! Indeed, he's known to be a bit, well, "touchy"!!  Fragile have had extensive contact with Yes, and guest appearances by Howe, White, even Peter Banks! I never asked Steve if he was solicited, it seems almost improper to do so. I did ask him about what was going on in Yes-ville, and he said that Anderson basically gave the band his blessing, so that's good enough for me. So, indeed, Yes has Benoit David, and they will hang on that petard, or prosper by the choice. Do you ever get to Exeter? If so, stop by Hugh Manson's guitar shop, he's the fellow who built my fretless bass (avatar)! He is Howe's luthier, also builds for JP Jones, Martin Barre & others. Very nice fellow. Sorry, also off-topic! Cheers!
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 21:04
| I saw Yes with Beniot David last year and he was really good (considering they couldn't get Anderson). I wish Anderson and Yes would get back together but if Yes (in this configuration) comes back around I'll go see them. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: May 23 2011 at 21:51
Funny you should mention that. Originally they were going to get Kevin Gilbert. He performed "The Lamb" at Progfest for his audition, Banks and Rutherford were in attendance. He did such an amazing job that Rutherford and Banks were heading to his hotel room to tell him personally that he got the gig, but unfortunately he autoerotic-axphyxiated himself just hours before. A tragic story. Fantastic performance though. Makes you think about what might have been. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW57uYoQ0H8" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW57uYoQ0H8
------------- 
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 13:00
I agree, fantastic! Thanks for posting that!
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 13:02
What is more boring than watching Jon Anderson on his acoustic tour? I prefer to hear Benoit David with a full band on a electric mode.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 14:39
It's going to be interesting to see how well the new album "Fly From Here!" fares, I presume they are going to launch with a tour? Have they played any of the new material live? Anderson will probably come back with Rabin and Wakeman from what I'm hearing, and I can see them doing large sections of "Olias." That will be worth waiting for. I have a limited concert budget and am looking forward to Return To Forever with Jean Luc Ponty! That trumps Benoit-Yes in my book. I'll let you know how the acoustic show is, from what I've seen, it's quite amazing. Yes never did perform any of Olias or other solo works by the members to my knowledge.
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 15:02
 This tragic tale always makes me choke up a bit...------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 15:35
Well, because i Guess because it's not over. The best Yes cover version band was Parallells with the chick. I think Squire is really clutchig at straws. i wouldn't pay a red cent to see them these days. ------------- |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 24 2011 at 17:56
There's a lot of this "battle of the bands" going on in Prog right now! Many bands are trying to figure out a formula to re-form and capture some of their past magic. My friends in Starcastle gave it a shot a few years ago, including some new material featuring Ollie Wakeman and Annie Haslem and an appearance at ROSFEST in 2006. They still announce a new CD to be released. http://www.starcastlerocks.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.starcastlerocks.com/ However, they didn't have anything acrimonious as Yes is going through! Starcastle has struggled to replace former key personnel including Herb Schildt and Gary Strater. I don't think any of the founders are with this present incarnation. Flash is another band going through the reunion turmoil....Ray Bennett tells me he's finishing their new CD, and based on the new tunes & revamped classics that have appeared on Youtube and other websites, I think it will be a good one. However, they had a rough patch in trying to reunite with Peter Banks, and in the end, it didn't work. You folks can probably think of many more of these evolving stories....Ollie Wakeman is first with Yes, then with the Strawbs, then his own band, etc. Rick Wakeman, Jon Anderson and Trevor Rabin may/may not form a new group (who would be bassist & drummer? THAT would be exciting to watch!). However, I gather that most of us are a bit tired of the old classics over & over live and wouldn't mind some new songs. Let's hope for a decent Yes album, it's long overdue.
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Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: May 25 2011 at 16:22
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When I saw Yes with Benoit David two summers ago in Seattle, I was spellbound. There was more energy and love in the songs than the previous two times I saw Yes, on the Union and Talk tours. It was like the band believed in their music again. Benoit David has exactly the right stage presence for Yes - gentle, positive, even joyful. His voice is beautiful, and he made me think of Yes as a real band instead of a geezer show. I so hope that the new album realizes the potential of the current Yes lineup. They deserve to make some worthy music. ------------- sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: May 25 2011 at 16:27
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If a band carries on after its prime, be it Yes or any other band, can the continued existence of this band then really tarnish its past achievements? Does its mere existence then offend as drastically, as many replies in this thread seem to suggest? Just as you can skip tracks on an album, you can also ignore a band's output beyond your personal cut-off point. Anybody's choice. It's interesting to talk about a band's devolution and regret that development, of course, but I find the strength of feeling towards Yes by some participants here slightly astounding. I do have the impression that many people here are taking the continued existence of Yes strangely personally. If Chris Squire for instance carried on making albums under another band name, why would that be acceptable, compared with him carrying on as a member of Yes, if it were essentially the same music? Just because it would be easier to ignore? There seem to be some interesting psychological currents apparent here. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 00:35
Apparently, we fans are not the only ones with psychological currents! Here's a new interview with HRH Rick Wakeman that was just posted on Notes From The Edge on Facebook: Many are going to compare this project to Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe and see it as a response to Yes, which continues without your involvement or that of Anderson. How do you feel about that? Everyone’s got their own view on what’s happening. Personally, I can’t ever understand how there can be a Yes without Jon singing. That’s my blunt take. Can you imagine Led Zeppelin without Robert Plant or The Who without Roger Daltrey? The voice is the most standout thing about any band. There are certain bands for which it is just impossible to replace that voice. For me, there isn’t a Yes unless Jon is singing and that will always be my perspective on things. To me, the Yes sound is all about the musicians and whatever they’re doing. Certainly Chris Squire and Steve Howe are very important, but the vocal sound of Yes is a major part of what makes it Yes. My own view is it’s great that the guys are going to carry on, but I thought they could play some Yes stuff, go off in a different direction, use a different name, and create something new. They could still do some Yes stuff and that would be absolutely fine. http://www.innerviews.org/inner/wakeman.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.innerviews.org/inner/wakeman.html |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 08:18
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Trying to replace Jon Anderson is a crime in itself. It breaks my heart that he's not still in the band, considering he's pretty much the heart of Yes.
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 08:45
Again , the same little battle for a NAME, three letters : YES Is Wakeman afraid to loose his reputation? I think he as a big EGO thinking that him and Jon are the heart of Yes. Yes is more that this 2 members.  |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 08:54
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I've said it before...David did a superb job at the show I saw. He sang his part and then let the veteran members hold the spotlight.
How that will translate to album we'll see. Let the thing come out and we can judge then. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 09:25
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I think Benoit is going to be fantastic, and he sounds like a decent Anderson impersonator. Hopefully he'll bring some of his own flair (whatever that may be) to the band. ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 11:44
To be fair, he didn't mention anything about himself...... just Jon. But I do find Wakeman's (and Howe's) reactions to the whole thing a bit childish....... if you're not in the band, it's not your business........ and its not very professional to make such comments about fellow musicians, regardless of your history. Those two have been sl*g.ing each other off like they're in some kind of TV drama. Jon himself has been very kind and fair to the other guys considering the position they put him in.... and at least he is capable of moving on from the whole escapade. I say hats off to him for coping so well with being fired from a job that was so central to his life. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 12:13
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Let's remember that this is a business, first, last, and always. Let's remember that Jon's health was touch and go at one point. Let's remember that the group had a history of exchanging, or replacing, members. Let's assume that Squire thought about some of the other singers that have been mentioned in this post. Let's assume that in some cases they weren't interested, available, or able to come to terms on their role and their longevity that was offered.
And let's enjoy Benoit for what he brings to the group--or not, if you're a Jon absolutist. Because he's it. Accept it and move on. . .
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 12:47
Good points! Based on the clips posted thus far, Benoit David does not even attempt to emulate Anderson's contratenor vocal range. He sounds quite a bit like Trevor Horn! I guess the new CD will be "Drama Part 2," which is too bad since I didn't care much for Drama Pt. 1. We'll see how the fans vote with their checkbooks. "Drama" was less than a critical and financial success for the band, as I recall. At least B. David can hit the high notes in classic Yes material, which Horn could not during the "Drama" tour! Trevor's attempts at covering Anderson's material in concert were pretty ugly as I recall. Anderson brought much more to Yes than sheer wind pipes.....he also brought some compositional talent that goes lacking when he is absent, and some powerful (if baffling!) lyrics. The lyrics of "Fly From Here" aren't very inspiring for a Yes record. Waiting to see how this all plays out, if anyone visits Facebook, please seek out "Notes From The Edge," there is excellent commentary and discussion over there.
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 06 2011 at 14:54
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I avoided listening to Drama for the longest time, because I though "it's not Yes". However, it IS a decent album, if not really anything special (in my view). I will likely get the new album at some point, as the clips sound pretty good compared to the previous several albums. Of course, they are just clips so the whole package might be lacking still. I was very unhappy to hear about Anderson leaving, and felt that it wasn't Yes anymore. Of course, when I think about it, they haven't been the Yes that I loved since at least Going For The One. I did love the Keys To Ascension albums, even if a few of the new songs didn't sound like Yes to me (and the rest really didn't come close to the greatness of the past). I passed up the chance to see the "classic" lineup back in 2002 or so because I didn't think it would be worth $70 (crappy venue played into that decision as well), and I have still never seen Yes live (though based on DVD's I've seen from Keys and Masterworks, they still have the ability to move me at times). No regrets here, and not the least interest in seeing them live with Benoit. Personally, I don't get excited about any aging "legends" anymore (and I'm over 40 and obviously not getting any younger). I just don't understand why they can't just move on and create something brand new. Look at Peter Gabriel as a good "prog" example. He doesn't look back, just keeps moving forward. I'm not crazy about a lot of his output, but I totally respect that ethos. I wish these old proggers would tool, but at the same time understand the need to have a comfortable old age which is probably easier to do by playing the nostalgia circuit.........certainly there are more than enough people interested to make that profitable. For myself, I'll pass. I'd rather find new and interesting music while occasionally being blown away by how good those bands used to be as I listen to the albums they made when the had a drive and ambition for something other then money and recognition. Edit: Just realized I didn't address the actual topic of this thread So, to put it simply, they could very easily have done better than Benoit. They could have invited Anderson back. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 12:45
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Wakeman never mentioned himself, he put Anderson at the heart of Yes, as he did when Anderson first left after Tormato. He has always been consistent about that. I will stick rigidly to my opinion that Yes should have ceased, and this lot called themselves a new name. Squire & Rabin were going to release 90125 under the name Cinema - it was only Anderson's return that forced a change back to Yes. There are some singer's who are irreplaceable. Rush without Lee, Zep without Plant, Who without Daltrey. My favourite band, Marillion, IMHO, should have renamed themselves following Fish's departure, and I prefer Hogarth. Someone mentioned the B word - business. Maybe so, but I would naively like to think that bands would, sometimes, have a little bit more respect for those, like me, who have spent a fortune on them over the years. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:48
Regardless of how a band's financial motives are particularly moral or immoral....... I don't see how it transcends to a disrespect for fans. I mean, with all due respect, you chose to spend your money on Yes albums and next month you will also have that choice. While I agree that some bands, and particularly Yes over the years, have made poor artistic decisions with dollar signs in their eyes, I don't think they will ever "owe" anything to fans...... because part of being a music fan is accepting the risk involved with investing in potentially bad music. You may be familiar with Fripp's writings on fans who "have paid their hard-earned cash" to go to his concerts and been disappointed afterwards........ he couldn't care less! And why should he? Making music to please fans is equally untrue to a musician's artistic self as making music to please a record company. Jon Anderson's voice is indeed irreplaceable. His songwriting, his charm and optimism, within and without Yes, are irreplaceable. But who says Beniot David is a replacement? And even if he is, why should Yes change their name? Bands can change direction. The Who without Daltrey sounds very un-Who...... but maybe if history was different they would have changed Daltrey for someone else. It doesn't mean Daltrey is replaceable, it just means the band have changed direction and no longer need "a Daltrey", real or fake. Yes with Beniot are not replacing Jon, they are moving on from Jon (albeit for the wrong reasons). And the name Yes is only defined by what the band are doing, not what they did or what they were most famous for. To borrow from Fripp again, it is "a way of doing things" rather than a group of particular people. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:52
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They would have been better off with Céline Dion struggling through Close To The Edge or evn Big Generator. The only band in history that has become a cover band of itself.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:52
Sadly, we see these business shenanigans all too often in prog! Flash have had a dust-up over their name, and it would have been quite easy to negotiate a "blessing" and guest-track by Pete Banks on the (forever delayed) new Flash CD. Wishbone Ash is another classic, with two touring versions, Andy Powell's and Martin Turner's versions. Two bands playing tug-of-war over the same songs. I agree, the honest thing would have been for Squire to re-name the thing and start fresh, as Howe & Co. did with their very successful Asia project. Squire never seems to succeed on his own without being surrounded by Yes-men, if you think about it.....one rather ancient solo LP, a few so-so "Conspiracy" CDs and that's about it. If the Wakeman/Anderson/Rabin project takes hold, I'll be very happy to stand in the ticket line. I've already passed on this version of Yes and don't anticipate seeing the Styx/Yes traveling circus.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:57
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Why did't he just call it the Farmer Chris Squire and his Dull Band after Rick Wakeman threw the tomato at the beyond disgusting artwork on Tormato?
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 07 2011 at 15:17
Funny you should mention Asia. I think John Payne might have a perspective on this that would enforce the "cashing in" accusation of the fairly recent "original Asia" reformation Personally, I think they should have still called the 90125 band Cinema, as it certainly wasn't (and isn't) Yes to my ears. Of course, going by the Fripp definition of band, I suppose just about anything released by Chris Squire would be Yes in some form (since he is the only truly original member left in the band..........though Howe and White have been their long enough for it to not really matter and in any case are part of the "definitive" line up). He also has had ownership of the name for a more consistent and unbroken time than any other member. In any case, I'm still willing to listen to the thing, but I have no interest in seeing them live (wish I would have seen one of the Keys performances though........that would have been magical). |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 08 2011 at 22:12
| I guess there would be less people knowing classic Yes if they had named the 90125 line-up "Cinema". |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 09 2011 at 04:07
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Even if Cinema didn't have any Yes members in it, if everyone from Yes/Cinema agreed on the name Yes, then it merely represents a change in direction for Yes. If it "wasn't Yes" to some people's ears, then they obviously just have a less broad definition of Yes than the musicians themselves. Who cares what it's called or how it is justified or warranted to be called Yes....... just listen t it or avoid it. The same applies to Yes in 2011. Denying that the band is even allowed to be called Yes is taking things a bit personally....... Listen or avoid!!! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 09 2011 at 09:06
I don't think any of us have any illusions that the members of the current Yes care at all what we think. Your point is also a good one. I just say that for ME, personally, 90125 was not Yes. Of course bands are entitled to determine what is or is not "them". I also am completely entitled to my own feeling about that subject.  |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 09 2011 at 11:18
I suppose it is a natural extension from "disliking" a certain band's new direction, to say that this new direction "isn't them".........but ultimately, it still is them. Of course we, as fans, can have an opinion on it. But the denial aspect is perhaps a little childish, typical of fanboyism (no disrespect to fanboys!)....... i.e. It is better and easier to admit that a band you love has gone so far downhill that they are no longer the same band, than it is to admit that the band made some crappy albums. Although I love 90125, I really don't like Love Beach, which was a significant change in direction for ELP. Would I say the album doesn't qualify as ELP (not just in terms of categorisation, but artistically)? I wouldn't. I would say ELP have developed, and that I don't like them anymore! Rick Wakeman saying that the current Yes isn't Yes...... is a silly thing to say, especially as a member who himself left the band more times than is countable. Yes is the music, not the band. Jon's presence or absence doesn't make it Yes or un-Yes.......... just less like typical Yes. Is the band worse without Jon though? DEFINATELY. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 09 2011 at 18:24
Smae thing here, in Argentina he was fine ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 00:10
But the question is, was Benoit David the BEST that Yes could have done to replace Anderson? I happen to do a bit of work in the prog music industry, you'd all recognize the names. One of the big problems in bringing an artist or group back from the past is "creating a buzz." I don't think folks seek out Yes specifically because of Benoit David, do they? I passed on the chance to see them in Chicago specifically because of Benoit. Yes had other options they might have explored, including a woman (listen to Annie Haslam's treatment of "Turn of the Century," it is mind blowing!) or an established pro from another band, regardless of whether the person was a Jon Anderson sound-alike or not. David does have a bit of cred, but I could have found a dozen better vocalists for Yes if given the assignment. Deep Purple prospered when they replaced Blackmore with Steve Morse, a remarkable guitarist in his own right. On the other hand, Flash is struggling to get out of the gate without the lift they would have received from the involvement of Peter Banks. There are always intangibles with bands....Queen with Paul Rodgers was a commercial bust. Also, from what I've heard of the songwriting on "Fly From Here," the lyrics are barely passable and the vocalizations are just so-so. I'm not even sure that is David singing, it sounds like Trevor Horn. As a longtime Yes fan, I'm not impressed and I'm waiting for the Anderson/Wakeman/Rabin collaboration to bear fruit.
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 08:43
This is pretty much my feeling about it all. As stated earlier, Wakeman has never said that it isn't Yes because he isn't in it, he specifically said it is because Jon Anderson isn't in it. I tend to agree. Personally, even though I enjoyed the shows I saw in the 90's immensely, I really couldn't think of the Waters -less Floyd as Pink Floyd. It was really David Gilmour does Pink Floyd with a really good backing band. Though those two Floyd albums were certainly his best solo albums (just like The Final Cut was Waters best solo album) Anyway, getting back to Yes, it's obviously the bands choice to continue on in this way, and Anderson doesn't own the name and has given his blessing. Personally, I haven't expected anything great from them since I heard the Keys albums (at the time, I thought that might be the beginning of new creativity from the "classic" lineup.......little did I know it was going to be extremely short lived). Still, I think they could have easily found a better singer if they wanted to go in a new direction. From what I've heard, that is not what they wanted to do. To me, it sounds like they wanted to make a kind of Drama part 2 with some Asia pop sensibilities thrown into the mix. I'll have to hear the whole album though before I pass any definitive judgment. |
Posted By: tux
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 19:14
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The "Keys to Ascension" sessions were the origin of some of the best moments in Yes' history ("Mind Drive", to mention only the most obvious one), and even "Magnification" was better than all that 80s stuff, including "Drama" to me (personally). So Yes are finally on their way back to old glory, and Wakeman/Anderson have never really been important for Yes' music style. (Wakeman enthusiasts might want to hear "Relayer" again and tell me why he would have been a better choice.) Who would be a reasonable alternative? Another "let's sing like someone who tries to imitate Jon Anderson badly" guy? Trevor Horn? Oh, come on... The best person to replace Jon Anderson is someone who tries to be Jon Anderson. I presume B. David does a great job... ------------- I am the passenger; I ride and I ride ... |
Posted By: tarkus1980
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 19:47
You've never heard of The Beach Boys? ------------- "History of Rock Written by the Losers." |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 19:58
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First of all, I must say I don't really think Squire, Howe, White should stop calling themselves Yes if they have the legal rights and want to do so, as long as they don't release the album or tour saying Anderson is with them when he actually isn't, which they haven't done. Whether we like what they are doing and how they call themselves is our own problem and we have to deal with it. On the other hand, I too have seen Yes with Benoit (and sadly, not with Anderson), and I think they did a good job, and Benoit was OK... however, though he was a very good replacement, he is not Jon Anderson, and lacks that one special touch Anderson has, which makes a huge difference in the end; and he did look somewhat weird, like out of place in the stage with Yes (though certainly he did look like he was having a lot of fun). I'm rather interested in seing what he will do when stamping his personal touch in new songs. Still, I would rather they had looked for some other talented singer without trying to find an Anderson impersonator, because in the end the odds (and the actual result) is that he will be a dissapointment (hardly anyone will ever replace Anderson). The Haslam sugestion would have been a very nice thing to see, though I guess that's just a dream, I bet we will more likeley see Anderson back on Yes than Haslam. Also, about 90125, if they wanted to call it Yes that was their choice, and I'm sure commercially it was a very successful choice, first it allowed them to get some attention more easily, and then lot's of people who got to know Yes because of the new songs must have looked for their earlier albums and become a Yes fan, I'm sure more than one person here in PA got to know Yes that way, perhaps even prog in general. So keeping the name Yes for 90125 helped them to sell more of the new album, as well as to sell more of their older albums. As for the Anderson, Wakeman, Rabin project, I'm at least as excited about it as I am about the actual Yes album (perhaps even more), and I really hope it comes to happen. If they choose to do it as a full prog album, and Wakeman decides to take a more active role in the songwriting than he usually does on Yes albums, I'm sure it could be great; many of Wakeman's albums are just about as good as the best Yes albums, and in the last decade he release 3 brilliant albums (Out there would be the best for me, and both Retro albums had some really good songs included). So, in the end, I just hope both Yes, and Anderson, Wakmeman, Rabin release some really great material this year. I'll have to wait to judge. |
Posted By: tux
Date Posted: June 10 2011 at 20:08
That might be because he's a couple of decades younger that the other Yes members. David and Squire look like grandfather and grandson, lol. But I wouldn't take that into consideration when rating his performance... ------------- I am the passenger; I ride and I ride ... |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 11 2011 at 00:38
Thank you, wonderful post! I'm fortunate....my first Yes concert was their CTTE tour, in 1972, just after Bruford left the band! I didn't get to see TFTO because they cancelled the show at my university due to the fuel embargo (GRRR!), but saw Relayer tour twice, Going for the One, Yes in the round several times, Reunion Tour, and most recently, the 35th Anniversary tour, where I had an after-show backstage pass & got to speak with all of the guys!! I just love Anderson's energy, spirit, and stage presence! He strolled around the venue on the 35th Anniversary tour, singing with a wireless mike, it was magical! The band had such a good vibe and got along so well that I was very surprised when Yes moved on and left Jon, Rick and Ollie behind. I don't know what to make of it all, except that the remaining members of Yes have bills to pay & Anderson's inability to tour was hurting them financially. I just wish they had done something more creative (progressive?) than bringing on a tribute-band singer that they found on YouTube!! EVERYBODY is doing that! Journey, Boston, etc.!!! I'll admit that Benoit David did a great job covering classic Yes tunes, but his stage presence (from what I've seen on YouTube) just isnt' the same magical presence of Anderson. Yes could have done better. Meanwhile, Anderson and Wakeman are gearing up to return, so we have to ask....will the market tolerate TWO bands playing the same material?? I'm seeing evidence that Wakeman and Anderson will reprise some of "Olias of Sunhillow" in concert, which would be magical! Those two are charting a very creative and progressive path together, and I wish them the best. I hold no ill will to the remnants of Yes, but the group that is touring is a shell of the group I've known for years. ¡Vaya con Dios!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 11 2011 at 13:56
| I'm jealous, I whish I could have seen all those concerts, however, I wasn't born by the time they did all their classics, and I only got to know Yes until after 2000... perhaps a year too late to see the last tour by the classic lineup (I guess they were on tour while I was discovering their music, didn't get time to learn about the time and knowing that I needed to attend to the concert). However, if I get to see Anderson and Wakeman I'll be glad enough (though it may be a bit difficult for them to choose Mexico to come to perform). I have already seen Yes with Benoit and Oliver, as well as Wakeman performing Six Wives at Hampton Court... now I only need to see Anderson too... if it is with Wakeman it will be all the better... and last, I'm still wishing for Wakeman to make up his mind and do King Arthur on ice here in Mexico (some years ago he said he actually wanted to do that, though I guess that has come to nothing). |