Queensryche vs. Pain of Salvation
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Topic: Queensryche vs. Pain of Salvation
Posted By: Alitare
Subject: Queensryche vs. Pain of Salvation
Date Posted: June 01 2011 at 23:48
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To me, no two bands can be favorably compared like Pain of Salvation and Queensryche. Both bands began as minor outfits reflecting their music interests at the time (Queensryche EP/Entropia) while injecting them with unsubtle political themes (Concrete lake/Rage for Order), then both landed a creative peak in the middle of their career with progressive metal albums that have been hailed as critical masterpieces in the form of concept albums (Operation: Mindcrime/The Perfect Element), and both dropped the ball when they introduced more contemporary elements into their sound (Hear in the Now Frontier/Scarsick). Finally, both groups returned to their influences for guidance in treading the future (Road Salt One/Take Cover). Both groups were gritty, dark, hateful, critical, and suitably heavy. Neither group partook in shred metal. Both had striking lead vocalists with massive ranges. Both groups had a heavy theatrical edge, both groups had a tribal feel to their drumming. More than often I've heard folks say 'Pain of Salvation picked up where Queensryche left off'. My question to you is what do you think of these similarities? Which group do you prefer and why? Personally, no rock or metal album influenced me as much as Operation: Mindcrime except maybe Dark side of the Moon. I can't help but prefer Queensryche. I see the peak for QR being Mindcrime, Emipre, and Promised Land, while I'm hesitant to put Be on the same level as Remedy Lane or Element. And in my heart Promised Land takes the wind outta anything Pain of Salvation did when it comes to inner turmoil. Tate screaming 'Why am I?' on the title track has always sent chills down my spine. I love both groups. I don't worship either.
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Replies:
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 00:57
| Queensryche by far, I'm not a fan of POS music, even I like some of their albums specialy Element. So Operation mindcrime , Empire and their most underrated album Rage for order, all 3 are killers.. what was release after Promised land is questionable one way or another but not bad after all. |
Posted By: TheClosing
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 02:55
| PoS all the way. |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 05:37
| Never really found Queensryche particularly progressive so PoS is the obvious choice for me. |
Posted By: Morningrise
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 07:43
| PoS by far. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 07:52
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Mindcrime remains the best prog metal album of all time despite many many attempts, several of the best being by PoS.
After QR dropped the ball, PoS was there picking it up. Glad we have both. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 08:27
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where is the 'not into either of them' option ? :) ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 08:48
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QR have one great album. PoS have more than that. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Lofcaudio
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 08:58
I tend to agree. And I think I prefer PoS' best (Remedy Lane) over QR's best (Operation:Mindcrime). Perfect Element and Be are also outstanding, making Pain of Salvation the easy choice for me since I don't care for anything else from Queensryche (maybe Empire if I'm in the right mood).
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Equality 7-2521 wrote:Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 11:05
I agree with you completely. What fascinates me, though, is how their careers arc in nearly identical fashions. They're both still making music, though QR never were the same when DeGarmo left. I still enjoy Mindcrime part II far more than the consensus of it tends to be. It's great! It's just rotten hogsh*t when compared to the first installment, is all.
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 11:54
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Pain of salvation!
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 11:56
| I guess QR, having made Operation: Mindcrime are the lesser of two evils |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: June 02 2011 at 12:39
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 06:31
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I dont agree with your analasis. PoS started off very strong and then got even better, with TPE being the best album of all time (IMO, of course), then started to experiment with their sound quite a lot from BE onwards. And political themes have always been in their music. Queensryche started off solid if unspectaculer on the EP and then improved from their until their classic Mindcrime album, but have been complete rubbish since Promised Land, there has been no return to form for them. Also, compositionally Pain of Salvation are a huge jump ahead of QR so its got to be PoS by a light year. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:03
I never once meant compositionally. I also never said the debuts of either outright sucked. It's just a given that Mindcrime and TPE were the critical favorites and both were the groups' third album or so. I never said they had the SAME experimental sound - I'm saying they took contemporary influences. Hear in the Now took alt rock and grunge. Scarsick took rap and what have you - both were received poorly. Read between the lines and don't make brash assumptions due to your singular opinion, goddamn it.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:15
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You have to remember, there was no prog metal when Queensryche came up. It was Maiden and Priest and the EP was actually very very good in the crowd of NWOBHM imitators. Warning and Rage for Order are very good albums, and "proggier" than any of their kin.
Dream Theater had already broke by the time of PoS ascendance, and of more obviously PoS built on what Queensryche started.
I've said this a thousand times, but the Dream Theater sound was not that unique when they came up. They combined the shredder guitar movement (which was very popular with many many albums) and combined some Maiden, some glam, and a little Rush just at the time grunge was breaking. Those of us who didn't like the turn toward simplification of rock jumped aboard because we had a new band pushing in the direction we liked while everyone else was jumping ship.
Listen to Yngwie Malmsteen's first four albums from which Symphony X stole directly. The whole idea that DT created prog metal will dissolve a little.
PoS is great because they made conceptual music that did not depend on the shred metal formulas. They got much of that from Queensryche.
I realize that now that other bands have moved past, it doesn't inspire younger fans. That's fine. I don't like Pet Sounds that much. But no Pet Sounds, no Sgt Pepper. I think this might be a similar phenomenon. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:28
| PoS. Queensryche is not good, nor are they prog. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:35
PoS by a hundred thousand miles. And personally I don't think they "dropped the ball" on Scarsick at all. Love that album  ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:47
You're asking which I prefer so that last line answers the question and gives my reason why, goddamn it. I was pointing out where your comparison wasnt exactly true, and is actually rather vague once you look past the coincidence that they both have their most critically aclaimed album as their third (which is not strictly true either, its 50/50 between TPE and Remedy Lane). Its also worth noting that Queensryche built on top of what the NWOBHM bands had accomplished whilst PoS appeared at a time when DT clones where starting to crawl out of the woodwork and did something very different to just about everybody else. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 |
Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 10:55
| Pain of Salvation |
Posted By: Purple_Floyd
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 11:03
Road Salt One is nowhere near a return to roots; I see nothing in common between it and Entropia. Entropia is a nice metal-opera concept album, if a thad too heavy for my taste, while RSO is completly new, simple, lacking of any depth and awful style, which I believe is a shame considering their 3 masterpieces (TPE, Remedy Lane and "BE") they released before.
I don't know much about QR. I like Mindcrime I & II, but it's not in my a favorite.
POS for sure. -------------  
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 11:45
By 'roots' I meant 'influences'. Take Cover has nothing to do with Rage for Order. It has to do with what influenced them. Road Salt One was a tribute to 1970's prog rock and Led Zeppelin. Christ, this wasn't meant to be taken like a master's degree thesis, ya tightasses. I never said there weren't differences. It's just like half this community to hear someone say 'a cat got run over' and reply: 'No, I disagree, it committed suicide, you foolish nincompoop'.
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Posted By: Purple_Floyd
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 11:53
Yeah, sorry, I misinterpreted what you said. I just wanted to express my hate for this album but just sounded rude in doing so. -------------
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 12:12
Oh I got no problem with you. You say you haven't heard much from QR. You love Pain of Salvation (so does I). I gotta recommend Promised Land - one of the darkest albums I've ever heard. By dark I don't mean black metalish, either. It's closer to The Perfect Element.
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Posted By: Purple_Floyd
Date Posted: June 03 2011 at 13:42
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 02:02
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Mixed views on both bands. QR blended Rush with Iron Maiden to make the prototype of prog metal as we know it but barring some songs like Sister Suite Mary, I don't find their music all that interesting or that much of a departure even from heavy metal. I have often heard them described as "thinking man's metal" but in all honesty, Sabbath's daring musical adventures on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath make me think a lot more than either of these bands. The Rush-like precision doesn't really disguise the prominent Maiden influence in their music. AND Iron Maiden themselves have some Rush influences so QR is more like a logical next step than a radical departure for me, but with the over conscious, calculated delivery that for some reason is so sought after in prog metal. Coming to PoS, though, they do a lot of things right and in spite of that I did not like their last two albums, they remain one of the most promising prog metal outfits. What I don't like so much about PoS is how much they favour abrupt transitions. I don't mind abrupt transitions as a surprise element and especially if it makes sense taken in context of the further development of the music. But for PoS it is almost a staple, especially on Entropia and Concrete Lake albums. This problem is more or less overcome on Perfect Element I and it is also quite an emotional album and for that album alone, they comfortably get my vote over Queensryche. TPE is in many ways the kind of prog metal I really dig and would like to hear more of but unfortunately there's not a whole lot of it that at least I have heard of. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 09:09
In a way, I agree with you. I'll never forget Operation Mindcrime - it got to me when I was in a clouded stage of youth. But TPE is a world all its own. Personally, when it comes to new prog metal, I go for Pain of Salvation, Devin Townsend, and Ayreon (sometimes Opeth, too). Terria is a very emotional album for me, but in a very different state of mind (it's hardly "metal").
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 09:53
qft ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: kawkaw123
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 10:52
| POS Queensryche only had one good album in my mind. |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 21:15
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double post, sorry |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: June 04 2011 at 21:27
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Queensryche for me. I remember when I was only 12 years, it was 1986 and appears the album "Rage for Order", was undoubtedly an album ahead of its time, personally i recomend it. They forged a scene with Fates Warning, Heir Apparent, Mekong Delta, Wachtower and few others. If you want to hear excellent live band listen "Operation Livecrime", i prefer that album over Mindcrime. POS its a great band too, but i prefer the band form Seattle´. Sorry for my english |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: November 03 2011 at 20:02
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Apart from Operation Mindcrime, I didn't really get much into Queensryche. They don't sound particularly prog to me (not that I don't listen to other forms of music besides prog). POS I like. They may have had a few missteps recently, but most of their output has been really rather good. ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: ppl
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 09:04
| Operation Mindcrime was,is and surely will be the BEST prog metal album..and remember it was releashed in 1988 holy mother of god..what to say? |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 09:07
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meh vs meh ------------- Prog On! |