Thoughts on the double album
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Topic: Thoughts on the double album
Posted By: friso
Subject: Thoughts on the double album
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 05:48
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In progressive music we've got plenty of double studio albums and double live albums. From my experience it doesn't happen to often I really finish a double album, simply because halfway I want to hear something else. There are of course some 2lp's I like just fine like the Magma debut, Uncle Meat by the Mothers and Soft Machine's third. Still it rarely happens I listen to them in one run. Some thoughts on this? |
Replies:
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 06:09
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I agree and would guess this has merely been exacerbated by the CD format making the normal running time of new releases close to that of 80 minutes?. There are very few artists (from any era) that can maintain sufficient high quality or variety for 1 hour and 20 minutes of brand new material. By way of contrast I could name many 40 minute(ish) albums that I consider as near as dammit flawless for their entire duration. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 06:19
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Whenever I rip a double album that's more than one CD, I renumber the tracks on the second CD and combine them into one album so I can do an uninterrupted listen if I feel like it. But so what if you take it all in in one setting or take a break? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 07:08
You don't have to listen to the whole thing in one sitting, you know. I often divide a long album into two or three listening sessions. That's the best way to enjoy long albums, and make for a very complete and diverse listening experience. ------------- 
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friso wrote:Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 07:52
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I was just listening to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway last weekend. I listened to the first disc in the early afternoon and the second that same night. Still was a very enjoyable experience. I don't have as much time (or patience) as I did when I was a teen I guess. I agree that a tight 40 minute album is preferable to an uneven 80 minute one, but progressive rock isn't exactly known for its brevity.  |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 07:55
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Double albums are still just one long album to me. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:03
Same for me. That's why I try to listen to double disc albums in one sitting. ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:08
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I wouldn't want every album to be a double, but I'm more than happy with those few that are - I honestly can't imagine Tales from Topographic Oceans, The Wall, Tommy, Electric Ladyland, The Beatles (White) Album, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Marbles, Incantations, Yeti, Zeit, To Venus And Back, 666, Aerial, Tago Mago, London Calling, Made In Japan, Focus III, Space Ritual, Physical Graffiti, Soundtracks For The Blind, English Settlement or Sheik Yebouti being anything less than double albums. Sure, some of them are an endurance challenge, but rewardingly so. ------------- What? |
Posted By: dreadpirateroberts
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:08
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Getting that many listening minutes unbroken is my problem. If I decide to stay up until ridiculous hours of the night, I can manage it. Otherwise I have to break it up. Which can be nice too, but I miss the 'full sitting' a lot of the time. Especially with a new album. ------------- We are men of action. Lies do not become us. http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - JazzMusicArchives. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:11
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I always listen to the whole album, never stop it or skip the pieces (except if I accidentally metal), so I have no preferences. Coming up short or losing the thread fall into the normal possible flaws of any given work. ------------- 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:19
I know it's all about taste y'all but for me Tales, Electric Ladyland, White Album, Lamb and Tago Mago would be significantly enhanced by some judicious editing/pruning. All have their fair share of filler methinks? -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:31
Ha! You'd need to search deep and long through the PA forum to find my diatribes (correct use of the word btw) on "filler" in Prog albums  . I'll begrudgingly give you The White Album as one that perhaps could benefit from a wrinkled prune, but as a document of the Fab Four at that time it could not - however the tracks I could consider cutting would not be "fillers".------------- What? |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:50
the first three Chicago albums where Double albums,    -------------  
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:56
Does that mean that you oh mighty and revered Dean were once a scallywag (gulp) trollish critter on these very hallowed pages? (Please don't destroy the dream I beg you) -------------
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 10:52
| Interesting to think that a double album from the LP days will usually fit onto a single CD. A double CD album can be as long as a 4LP set these days! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 12:47
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Almost always excessive. I think The Wall is the only one I could get through without skipping. Maybe some Klaus Schulze if I feel like having X go on for 2.5 hours. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 13:24
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Since the title is 'Double albums' I'll assume we mean vinyl for the purpose of this. As with many others it depends on the album, Quadrophenia, Tommy, The Wall, The Lamb Lies Down are all good examples of successful doubles in my opinion. Sure some songs could be cut, but there aren't any really excessive 'fillers' from what I can see (hear). Now to be honest, when I make CD-R for my car from some of these doubles I prefer to not have to take two CD's for the sake of a minute or minute and a half over the capacity of single CD so I have taken some creative license and trimmed a few parts here or there to fit these onto a single disc. It hasn't compromised the listening experience for me. But if you want to talk about double CD releases, the ones with two 60 - 70 minute discs. Then there is definitely room for editing on a lot of the ones I've heard. To quote someone famous, I'm sure who, "Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you must do a thing". I have mixed feelings about Tales from Topographic Oceans. Sometimes I love the length other times I find it way to indulgent. The other factor here is your listening situation. To sit for 80 minutes uninterrupted can be a little tough for many. Since I spend a fair amount of time in my car traversing the countryside it gives me the time I need to dedicate my attention to longer recordings as well as time spent on the patio reading. If it's important you'll make the time, if it's not then buy your single songs off iTunes and leave the listening experience as it was intended behind. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 14:02
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The only double album I sometimes find too long is Cardiac's Sing To God, although every track on it is incredible. Also,  <3 |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 14:32
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Of course it all depends on the album. I like Dean's list, and as others have said, if I have the opportunity to rip or burn an old double onto a single CD or playlist, I will, but sometimes that is not feasable. As to double CDs, well again, it depends on the album. If it is a continuous affair, I will try to listen to the whole thing, but yes, that can get difficult. In some cases, I do not even try. IQs Subterranea is one I really like, but have a hard time getting through it all in one session. It is not that the music drags, it is just that often I have things to do and the music just gets in the way. I have recently bought a two disc collection of Atomic Rooster, which is over two hours total, and I never listen to it all even in one day. Since it is not a concept or anything, I don't even try. Yet for some albums, even an hour or so is stretching it. For example, Shadow Gallery's Room V really wears on me after a while. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 15:04
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Thats why I stop and reup my mood before going onto side two. Keep it going! ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 17:24
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: July 09 2011 at 17:33
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Agreed pretty much OP Even if I'm liking what I hear, that is just a lot of music. Usually I do struggle to make it all the way to the end in one sitting. I'd say generally keep it to one CD. That is 90 minutes anyway, seems like plenty of time to convey everything you want. But hey, if the music is so good that it doesn't get to me than kudos to them! |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 01:11
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My preferred length is between 40 and 45 minutes, but if you've got enough good material for a double album, then why not? The Lamb, Topographic Oceans, The Wall, Focus 3, etc are all great records ... I couldn't imagine them any other way. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 05:36
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I mostly enjoy 50-60min albums. Anything below that and I feel like I'm missing out on a song or two. Usually anything above that can drag if I'm not fully prepared for a long listening session. A prime example for me is The Mars Volta - The Bedlam In Goliath. I've listened to the first half about 60 times, but I've listened to the second half about half as many times. I have a long enough attention span, it just seems to trail off in quality. The Flower Kings I find annoying. Their double albums just seem lazy. Like they couldn't be bothered to edit their albums, leaving the listener to sift though the rubbish to find the 'best of'. A lot of double albums do that and it's not a winning formula.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 05:56
A double CD album such as TFK could theoretically last as long as 160 minutes (just under three hours)
you mention some almost perfect examples of double albums, but 95% are vinyl-released
But still I'd say that quite a few of those albums would've gained by being more selective and concise, by dropping a few fillers..... because the danger of building a second disc to an album is that you may resort to second-rate material.... I mean there are very few three-sides albums , the only one I can think of right now being Johnny Winter's Second Winter album witha blank D-side ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:02
Good point!!! IMHO, the D-side is 85% filler (Im being kind here-), while the C-side is about 40% filler stuff.... by being more selective on the A & B sides, they might have gained a lot by making a single flawless one-disc album instead of an over-long double disc, which ends up in yawning sessions and slightly irritated eardrums...
It felt so good when the needle lifted from the wax at the end of the album...... but not good enough to want to repeat the experience in the last three decades, though
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:12
------------- What? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:31
^ Ok fair comment as perhaps 'filler' is clearly an inappropriate description for the albums you cite. Read instead - tracks we the listeners feel are not on a par with the remainder of a double album (the implication with filler being that the artists might actually agree with us - heaven portend.... )
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:39
I have never understood all this talk about "filler", especially when it comes from people that I deem serious and worthy of respect. Transposing and applying this filler talk on the arts, it would be like when I visit a painter's retrospective, I should skip the walls with watercolours and drawings because they're "filler" and the exhibition would have been better with only the major paintings. Also, the smaller paintings and most of the paintings making up series would also be filler. 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:43
I cringe at the term filler. It reminds me of the "too many notes" scene in Amadeus. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:52
I don't get what you mean here at all and just to prove I clearly misunderstand you , my take on your post is that you place the artist on some sort of pedestal beyond reproach i.e. he/she deemed something a worthy addition to their oeuvre but I don't, so I must be mistaken in not likng it? Just remember that the 'major paintings' in your analogy are deemed so retrospectively by (gulp) us.-------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 06:58
Uh yes you completely misunderstood the point.  This is not about liking but about a full experience of the respective artist's work and art versus the partial experience. Also, by major I was thinking of both importance on one hand and of size and amount of visual content on the other. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 07:16
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^ I guess the 'warts/beauty spots' perspective is valid for the reasons you state but if you don't like eggs, not even a state of the art omelette is gonna convince you otherwise. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 07:21
I don't know how this relates to the discussion, which is more like "I like salads, but I would skip the olives, the cheese and the olive oil, they're unnecessary and detract from enjoying the good stuff." |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 07:37
However, I would say that the Olives are the good stuff. Some people will try them again and get a taste for olives whether green or black. Others will try them once decide they don't like them. and never try them again.
 ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 07:45
^^ neither do I  I just mean that our aesthetic sensibilities (taste) will always seek out and reject certain flavours even if they are masked by different forms. (Like say, Are You Ready Eddy? from Tarkus which I think is f r)My Mum used to try to hide onions in my mince but I always found the little varmints (yuch) The view from inside my own bottom is lovely thanks. Apologies for rambling.... -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 08:07
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To my mind "filler" is something put there deliberately by the artist to make up the numbers, whereas a track that is below par or just something you don't like is just a track you don't like. Are You Ready Eddie? was written as a humourus tribute to Eddie Offord and reflects Emerson's love of boogie-woogie - I don't see that ELP would consider that (or any other Emerson non-prog / honky-tonk excursions) as filler. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 08:15
| To quote Ian Anderson "A double album is like a long movie, and you end up with a sore bottom and ears". It takes a lot of time these days to listen to a double album, since a CD has significantly more space than the vinyl albums, and it takes a lot of music to fill it all. Undoubtedly, you will end up with a few pieces you could do without, or will need to stretch some, and quite often the inspiration and emotion runs out. |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 09:29
Another famous one is "The Case of the Three Sides Dream in Audio Color" by Roland Kirk ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 09:38
Didn't reckon the term 'filler' would meet with such strong objections. I would be the first to admit that its incredibly presumptuous of us to infer the motives of an artist for including a track we might think as 'poor quality' on an album, but I also think we're getting confused with our own appraisal of the work and that of the artist's (at which we can only guess, hence the speculation) Based on what has been posted to date, no-one appears to allow for even the remotest possibility that artists can sometimes be lazy, shoddy, have 'bad days at the office' or produce work they know full well is way below the standards they have previously set themselves. I don't believe that. -------------
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 09:52
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It's true we've seen a very significant increase of album length since the late eighties. I happen to think of that as not necessarily a good thing, most of time the tension-bow of long albums is non-exciting or even non-existing. For instance. A long track can give you that conclusive feeling that a piece of art is finished, but with many long tracks in a row this effect wears off and the long track doesn't have the impact it could have had. If modern bands were to decide to get me interested in modern progressive rock, I'd say making shorter albums - 35-43 minutes or so - with only material that is as relevant as can be, would be a good start. Even many older progressive rock albums would have been better if they had been shorter. Somehow it seems like people decide on how much lemonade they want by looking how big the glass is, in stead of thinking of their own thirst. This is the same with album length. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 10:40
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Honestly, I listen to triple albums, double albums and single albums and each one suits me just fine. It really does have to do with the quality in all that time and what the artist does with it. Some can pull out triple albums flawlessly like Joanna Newsom and Frank Zappa and others can make short but sweet little records that are just as good. But, like pretty much all aspects of music, length is also a taste-oriented thing and changes from listener to listener. Can't really be argued one way or the other. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 11:20
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Filler is when the only goal of that song is to add to the album's running time. Not liking a song doesn't make it filler. And double albums were great, but they are no longer necessary (in fact, albums themselves are no longer necessary as a practical format, only as an art form). ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 11:21
Yeah, well, I did warn you
 I find "filler" as offensive as most people find casual figures of speech like "overrated" and "underrated"
I know what you mean, but I prefer to give the artist the benefit of the doubt - and certainly with albums like The Wall, Tommy, Lamb and TFTO I don't believe that the artists slipped in a poor or weak track on purpose - if they exist then that is par for the course, not every track is going to be a gem - if a track is sub-standard then I find it hard to accept that the artist thought: "Oh, that'll do" and just stuck it on the album anyway, however that still would not class the track as filler. I know this is arguing semantics, but hey, this is prog - poor tracks are not necessarily filler and filler tracks are not necessarily poor - similarily seques and interludes between tracks (such that Tool often use) are not filler.
If there is a poor track on an album then that's fine - I'll be one of the first to point it out, (More Fool Me) - but I would not regard it as a filler track just because it is poor, it's a poor track or a weak track or a track I just don't like, but filler it is not.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:09
My definition of filler is something like Jean Louis uses - a 30 second untitled track of honking noises and percussion, or whatever - that serves as a transition. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:15
| ^ If it serves as transition that why is it filler? See Dean's posts above. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:21
I don't know, I just call it that. Bad habit |
Posted By: sturoc
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 22:17
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Double Lps especially Live ones were always attractive to me because: 1. A large amount of music from a particularly favorite group. 2 A story is usually being told aka: concept. 3. Live recording of a whole concert- close your eyes and your there -with enough volume of course! Many fine examples have mentioned in the prev posts. But I have to throw in a wrench when it comes to filler or trimming time or even the notion of Dbl Lps The one driving force behind Bands with recording contracts: The Record Comp itself and the Producer. How many times has the idea of concept or double lp been brought forth by a band only to be shot down by those two entities ? How many Bands released Double lps only to fulfill contractual means to an end ( of the contract) ? That a group goes forth booking time in the studio at Rec Company expense with what they thought was enough material for the 2 Lp release only to find out the label opinion differs about certain tracks. The band now needs to write in studio perhaps for new material-Ugh! The producer needs to shorten a song because he doesn't feel said track length works for the song. I even seen Producers even re-arrange the sequence of tracks as well. Band argues about track selections then Ooops Studio time is up ! "Ohh man, we haven't finished recording the whole thing" " Well Let's just throw those short tracks we did on." Remember in the 60s,70s, a bit of the 80s, bands were not that savvy when dealing with those folks and only the real top of tops Super groups could command their destiny in the Studio. So one must keep that in mind when discussing the earlier days of recording Double, Concept Lps BTW My Favs : Ulysses -The Greek Suite, Humble Pie- Rockin the Fillmore, ELP - Works Vol 1, Clapton- History of Eric Clapton. Tangerine Dream -any of them !, Allmans -Eat a Peach, Sorry I am blacking out on alot of Prog but my record collection is not close right now. |
Posted By: criticdrummer94
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 10:08
| Double albums can be done right (The White Album, Physical Graffiti) but others don't work at all and seem to have the biggest problem double albums do, TOO MUCH FILLER. I can't tell you how many double albums I've listened to and only like a select few tracks (Lamb Lies, and The Wall). I'm not saying they are all bad they can be done but it's difficult. |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 10:16
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I can listen to Moon Safari's Blomljud in one go no problem. As much as I love The White Album, it's just a giant collection of songs, and doesn't really fit as an album. For that reason, I can find it hard to get through without breaks. Most double albums seem a little excessive to me. ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 10:30
On PA that's now the F word -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:54
I would have thought a drummer would have been quite at home with fill(er)s  ------------- What? |
Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 16:38
Ba-dum tish? -------------
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Posted By: criticdrummer94
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 16:59
haha I get that but I just hate when artists make songs just to fill up time
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 20:03
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Being a fan of Dream Theater, I don't have much problems with double albums; the ones I fear are the triple live albums they have put out since the early 2000's.
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 05:14
That's probably my absolute favorite album and of course favourite double album. Every time I'm not listening to it I'm all like "this can't be as good as I remembered it to be" and then it's like "omgomgomgomg yes it is!!!!!!" and then I start shrieking like a 12 year old. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 08:50
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Sorry, forgot to check back on a possible answer on this thread.
did you know that the first CD version of JHE's Electric Ladyland was edited of some 90 seconds to fit a single CD??
 >> That's atrocious behaviour... OK, regarding fillers and second-rate material there is a fine line I see as such:
filler: Genesis's Lamb track that surround the piece where The Gabe slips in and out of his bulbous costume, they created two special pieces that had no other purpose (imho) than to allow a costume change live... I feel very strongly about this for Silent Sorrow, mainly because of its length (if it was 30 seconds-long, I would've not thought the same)
Second rate material: most of side 4... again my reading, but there is nothing strong with the compositions and the inspiration is either forced or spent...
For TFTO, I don't think there are fillers.... just second-rate material
(JK)As for ELP's RU Ready Eddie.... sure it was a (insider's) joke, But it came in handy to "beef-up" (read unintentional watering-down) the flipside with a completely anecdotic out-of-context track >> filler by excellence, in my book.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 09:10
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It's difficult for me listening to a double although there are exceptions in my world like L'Heptade by Harmonium or Bitches Brew by Miles Davis. The trick to obtaining or mastering the perfect or even suitable double release is to give listeners the realization that if the album were single it would not in fact be the same in any sense. If the listener can look back and feel they wouldn't desire to hear that particular double as a single then the goal of the writer is accomplished. Frank Zappa's Roxy and Elsewhere just wouldn't do condensed and edited into a single disc unless technology would allow that. The idea is to hear the recording in it's entirety.
The art of it all is basically how far a writer or small group of writers can go as they get inspiration to continue beyond 80 minutes. Some Progressive concept releases contain a repeating theme throughout . If the repeated theme is utilizing various instruments to play the melody then it becomes interesting and the double album becomes a worthwhile event. Some double albums drag on endlessly without any color added to the music. If side 2 or disc 2 opens with a song or piece that differs in sound and approach from disc 1.....then it becomes more interesting.....for example on side 3 or disc 2 of the "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway"....I am sorry but I forget the name of the song.....but the point is this.....As a listener,....you might not expect to hear a driving melodic song like that after hearing the first half of the disc.
I still wonder just how "In the Wake of Poseidon" by King Crimson would have sounded if it had been a double and combined with the writing talents on McDonald and Giles. A fellow from P.A. wrote about this analogy and even had a track listing. This is more of a realization due to the fact that McDonald and Giles had written most of the material for their solo debut while touring with K.C. Think about it. A huge percentage of Prog fans I have met over the years complain that the McDonald and Giles is too sugar coated and causes them to cringe in places WHILE many of them seem to feel that "In the Wake of Poseidon" is a repeat of "In the Court of the Crimson King". Everyone on P.A. knows this. Just about everyone here has read post replies where an abundance of people complain about both aspects of the 2 releases. Maybe based on that reality....if the 2 records had become a double album project....prog fans would have considered K.C.'s second release to be just as grand or even more grand than their first. The songs which hail from McDonald and Giles would have possibly been crafted better with just the right amount of sugar that Ian Mcdonald wanted along with Lake and Fripp adding in gymnastic playing and melodic atmospheric ideas of their own. To me....this is the long lost double album of the early prog days. |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 07:32
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Hey ExittheLemming... How about that list? - that'd be fun to see :)
 ------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 07:47
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This is a good point to raise....I think the CD format oddly makes it less likely to stick with a double whereas if you're going to sit through Topographic or Yessongs on vinyl you may as well get the blankets and coffee on and go for the marathon...
but, that's just it they kind of are by default marathons. To be honest with a few mysetrious exceptions I think you have to be in the 'mood' for anything of such long duration even some of the single disc LPs one side filling tracks can take their toll...but then if you're in the mood they can be so enjoyable to delve into....
The whole double/triple thing can be off putting at times i.e the new Amplifier album, good songs but especially not being very 'instant' sounding it's something I'm clearly sbconsciously delaying listening to in its entirety!
Luckily with say things like Porcupine Tree's The Incident you can almost listen to 'CD2' like a separate EP....
I guess it's a symptom in some respects of prog that you want to endure a track and all its developments but you're so eager to hear more that if the tune itself is slow to develop you end up moving onto to hear more....
Now for jazz-fusion or space rock, even some krautrock it kind of lends itself better...
I think stuff liek Ozrics, Magma, Soft Machine, Live Zappa...just by the nature of the sound works whether in short bursts of drawn out epics....look at Umphrey's Mcgee for example, especially live, brilliant improvised stuff.....then there's Chad Wackerman, Allan Holdsworth etc, also 'epic' metal like Tool or Meshuggah can work well in 'long format'....if talking into those kind of genres I care less about the length....in most cases anyway!
I think in general single disc albums are more attractive, something admirable and thrilling that an album could be near perfect in under or around an hour or less!
Best double album that springs to mind anyway for me though not prog would be Kazumi Watanabe's Mobo - now that is an album where I can't wait for the last track on disc 2 but would be happy to go through any number to reach it! - pure class!
Be interesting to see if my (general) approach to this changes
 ------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: July 14 2011 at 05:56
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 14 2011 at 19:27
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For me double albums are usually weaker than 1 disc albums, just as a new album that fills the whole CD is usually weaker than an old LP length album... I just feel that it is too much time to fill with good music, and that's not so easy. Most of my favourite albums are shorter albums, and that's not because I made myself a rule about not liking longer albums, that's just the way they are. Even live albums I like better when they fit only one CD, thinking of them as a single piece of art (though for me the standard live album should be a double album... but some of my very favourites fit on one disc). I guess the old restriction of time forced the bands to be more focused and stick only to the very best they had, while now a band or artist can give himself the luxury of keeping in the album some parts that he may even know are not as good as the rest... or in some cases, the artists may just feel they owe their fans to fill the whole CD length. As far as long albums go, my very favourites as far as I remember right now are The Division Bell by Pink Floyd (which fills just about a whole CD), The Whirlwind by Transatlantic (also fills almost the whole CD), and Originallis by Cast (Which is a double album, though it would almost have fitted on one CD without the "bonus" medley track). As for The Wall, I do agree that some parts are somewhat weaker (specially some parts of side 2, and most of side 3), but in the end, every song has an important part on Waters vision of what that piece of work had to be, and I don't think it would have worked taking some of those "weaker" songs out... and in the end, as a whole, I do feel the Wall is brilliant. Now, given the discussion about "filler" songs, I do have the perfect example of a filler song: that is the song "The Last Few Bricks" from the live version of "The Wall"... and that's because that segment between "Another Brick in the Wall 3" and "Goodbye Cruel World" was added to the concert so that the crew would have time to finish building the wall, so that was literally a filler song (just to fill the time needed). |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: July 14 2011 at 19:52
| What would be the Wall as a single album? What tracks do we keep? i've to think about that...... |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: July 15 2011 at 00:55
For such an exhaustive list, you've actually left some very, very important ones off: Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde," the Stones' "Exile On Main Street," Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew," Fleetwood Mac's "Tusk," George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass," Derek & the Dominoes' "Layla," Husker Du's "Zen Arcade," some of Ella Fitzgerald's songbook albums... I'm sure I've also left off some important ones that I'll kick myself for later :-)Should we include Marillion's "Marbles"? It has that same kind of sprawling diversity that's found on many of the best double albums. The Flaming Lips also announced that their single-CD "Embryonic" should be regarded as a double album... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 15 2011 at 06:47
Well, if we're going to be picky, Marbles was released as a single and the double was a special edition. Also To Venus And Back is one disc studio and one disc live with only one new track on the live disc. I might also add that Focus III fit on one CD though I think they had to drop a track. Living In The Past and the first release of Two For The Show were put on one one CD disc by dropping stuff. Kansas made up for it with their second CD release of that one going to two discs with a lot of unreleased stuff. Also hat's off to The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads for keeping the CD as two discs and providing a lot of unreleased stuff also. I like more bang for my buck. For those that feel that double albums are such a burden to have to listen to, consider the three LP release from Zappa, Joe's Garage. I believe I read a review once saying that stuff should have been dropped to make it just a double. Wrong. All those songs are part of the story. Then there's Marillion putting out Hapenis Is The Road as two separate discs you had to purchase separately when it was clearly a double album that should have been in one package. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 15 2011 at 07:38
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: July 15 2011 at 07:43
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Living In The Past and the first release of Two For The Show were put on one one CD disc by dropping stuff. [/QUOTE] Not to travel too far off thread, but did you know that "Living in the Past" was released as a 2-disc set in Japan? They duplicated the original album cover and booklet . This THING cost me 50 bucks. I went overboard and bought it. I think it's a shame it wasn't re-released in domestic form with this kind of packaging. What a beautiful record it is.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 15 2011 at 08:04
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Umm, let's think... I only listed double albums that I was happy with as doubles - that naturally excludes double ablums I think would be improved by being single-ified (Tusk) and it also excludes albums I don't like and wouldn't like whether they were double or single (Dylan, Stones, Layla or any jazz album).
I was also kind of referring to vinyl releases only - to my mind Scenes From A Memory would be a double vinyl (it is naturally split into two halves anyway, but it's a single CD so I didn't mention it, similarily Into The Electric Castle & The Human Equation are fine double CDs but not a vinyl so I didn't mention them, however - Marbles was available as an 11-track double vinyl, hence, I mentioned it.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: September 22 2011 at 07:47
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You have to watch double vinyl albums released on a single cd, because the record companies remove tracks. An example would be Groundhogs' Best, talking of which . . .
Tony McPhee once said he made less albums because he could not come up with the seventy-odd minutes of material that people expected on a CD. This a shame because, while fans are being ripped off if they only get thirty minutes on an album, 45 to 50 minutes of quality music would be fair. Some albums sound a bit 'spun-out' to fill the CD.
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Posted By: GoldenGod2112
Date Posted: September 22 2011 at 22:48
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Yeah I'll usually listen to the first half then go listen to something different and then listen to the other half later. ------------- The future's uncertain and the end is always near. - Jim Morrison |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 00:10
But that's a compilation? I've never heard of a company actually cutting tracks post-release for the CD (what happens during recording is not something we can really know). What upsets me is that Empty Spaces, which is probably the best song on The Wall, was cut for time on the vinyl, but they don't include it in the CD. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 02:37
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If i remember well, double lp were not that numerous through the sixties and seventies and not all of them were quite outstanding ( i mean the whole album ) and since most of them clock as a cd duration that means most of cd today countains useless stuff
------------- FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 03:00
This is not exactly airtight logic... ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 03:27
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Ok! so you love all the cd you keep from start to finish? ------------- FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 03:44
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^ that's not what he said :-/ ------------- What? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 03:58
He means that a tonne of refuse weighs the same as a tonne of diamonds -------------
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 04:03
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You're surely not a mineralogist to make that kind of statement
------------- FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 04:44
The worst example I can think of: ECM left out the 26 minute long Rolling Stone to fit Terje Rypdal's double album Odyssey into a single CD. Both the track and the album are fan favorites. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 06:34
Look, as far as an artist putting in stuff just to fill out the capacity of the CD format, that's just dumb. Taking advantage of the format to include things that wouldn't fit in the LP format is cool. If you don't like some of the stuff on a particular double album, just rip it and make another copy of it without the stuff you don't like. Problem solved. But when tracks from a double LP are dropped to fit it into a single CD, you can't easily get those back. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: wjohnd
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 16:40
not prog but Whitesnake '...in the heart of the city' was trimmed as was Jethro Tull 'Bursting Out' maybe they think it is ok with live albums? As for listening to full albums I used to do it all the time but these days I mostly listen in the car and tend to put a playlist together and randomise... ------------- 
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Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 18:03
My favorite double album too, pure genious!! |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 18:38
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I am a fan of the double album, they do not bother me, they do not bore me and I have the patience to sit thru 4 sides with no issues. Because I love music......I don't compare the 80 min CD to a dbl LP, good or bad. Both are just ways to listen to music...simple as that.
A dbl LP with gatefold gives me a lot of info and reading material usually, its just part of the dbl lp experience that makes it fun.
And to have to get up every 23min or so to flip my vinyl, geezz, that's the least of my worries plus it keeps me athletically fit .-------------   
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 23 2011 at 20:24
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Damn straight take non planned exercise opportunities whenever and wherever you can get it.. I appreciate the attitude even though I have a lot more fun with the music not having to get up to flip the medium over. But CD packaging and art has come a long way since the "jewel" case. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: kingcrimsonfan
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 00:09
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what I did was i listened to half of the lamb in one month and in the next i finished it it was a heck of an experience. ------------- 
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Posted By: logwed
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 13:55
 Personally, I greatly prefer the single album format, compared to double albums, or CD-length albums. I don't quite have the patience to critically listen to more than 50 minutes of music unless I'm in a very rare mood. Beyond that, I can get bored with an album's sound, find it a little sprawling. Also, I do my critical listening in my bed (my headphone rig is in my bedroom), so it can be dangerous to go for too long, for fear of getting sleepy.
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 14:17
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There was a time in my misspent youth that I bought albums for no other reason than they were doubles. Let me enter the Bee Gees Odessa into evidence, plus it had that fuzzy cover. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 14:20
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And not prog, but Johnny Winter put out a double which only had three sides (side four was physically grooveless). I think it was Second Winter and those three sides which did contain music were good enough. At least he had the sense to realize there was no point in putting filler on side 4. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: AutumnWanderer
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 17:27
| I'm liking a one disc original album and bonus disc at the moment. The Yoso concert (tacked onto Elements) was nice to have. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: September 25 2011 at 17:50
| White Album? Sure! All things must Pass? Sure! Jesus Christ Superstar, the Wall, Quadrophenia? Sure! But Tommy? Naw! Lamb? Wish it were cut in half. Most of those early Chicago albums? Miles Davis? I wish they were shorter. |
Posted By: PinkFloydrulez
Date Posted: October 03 2011 at 21:19
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I feel that the 80 minutes on a single disc that CDs allow is one of the problems with modern prog. Before, artists had to get everything down to 40-50 minutes of their best material to release. if they were really ambitious and really wanted to, they may be allowed to do a double album, but there still had to be some degree of restraint to make an effective statement. the restrictions helped make their works better, more concise. Nowadays it's just too easy, people will fill up those 80/160 minutes just because they can. I mean, yeah, it's good to let the artist explore and all but sometimes I feel like there's no discretion involved whatsoever. i mean come on, look what happened to Star Wars! =[ multi-record live LPs are okay in my book, though. :) (sup europe '72/yessongs ilu)
this is also my ideal although I don't always maintain it. this is the artist's vision/expression, this is what they wanted to present to the world and how they wanted it to be presented. but sometimes it feels like they didn't try their hardest to make it the best it could truly be. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/PinkFloydrulez http://rateyourmusic.com/~pfr_77 |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 04 2011 at 07:30
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: October 04 2011 at 07:33
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I like double albums if they're really good, but they usually aren't. ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: Guls
Date Posted: October 04 2011 at 12:09
What he said. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 04 2011 at 12:23
Love the album, and the fuzzy cover. Odessa may not be flawless but its certainly more even than White Album and Tommy. -------------
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 04 2011 at 13:10
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I like Steven Wilson's new one, as it's a double album, but each CD is about 40 minutes, and the whole album is only a few minutes over 80 minutes. So it doesn't feel as long as it is. Moon Safari's Blomljud album is almost 2 hours long, yet only feels like an hour, mainly due to the strong melodies and harmonies throughout. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: October 05 2011 at 15:42
| "Tom Sawyer" and "Paranoid" were filler (literally). |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: October 10 2011 at 10:20
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Tommy doesn't feel very long at all when I listen to it. Miles Davis.... if we're talking the mainly-improvised fusion period then those pieces of music need to have some length to convey their changes of mood effectively. The ones you said "sure" to though, I agree with. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 08:35
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There is no double album I know of where I wouldn't have cut at least something, but then again, I don't know if there is any single LP album where I wouldn't have cut anything. |
Posted By: sideburndude...
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:26
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I Feel that most Double albums are necessarily long, I don't think that The Lamb or The Wall wall would have as much impact as a single LP. But yes many times Doubles albums are riddled with Filler Like The Smashing Pumpkins Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness or certain sections of The White Album. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: October 18 2011 at 06:49
Call them track
101
102
103
...
201
202
203
And bonus tracks i split from the main "record" as a seperat album.
Anyways if i listen to the hole thing at once or not depends partly on my mood, partly on the album itself.
Right now with Grace For Drowning, i tend to listen to the entire album. Its like a full circle that works best if it sticks together, but older albums, that i know better, (like the white album, or the wall), i will often just listen to some tracks, maby about the time of a vinyl album side. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |