Cardiacs- most controversial band?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79637
Printed Date: April 27 2024 at 07:08
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Topic: Cardiacs- most controversial band?
Posted By: frippism
Subject: Cardiacs- most controversial band?
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:43
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For those of you who haven't listened to Cardiacs in the shallowest of shallow definitions you could describe them isa mix prog and punk (or pronk by many). To say the very very least- I like Cardiacs. A LOT. And you know when I saw something like a bad review for Cardiacs it's like "IMPOSIBRUUUUU!!!". But I'm really interested to hear why people actually don't like Cardiacs, because I'm yet to understand from the negative reviews what's not to like... By the way this isn't another I'm smarter than you because my opinions are better thread... I'm just really curious... I am smarter than you though... ------------- There be dragons |
Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:47
Well, not me.  I like Cardiacs too. |
frippism wrote:Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 13:07
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Don't people say in their reviews why they don't like them? ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 13:10
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there pretty good. as far as largely unlike prog punk goes though i will always prefer deerhoof. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 13:13
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There are many more controversial and worse bands on the archvies. Although admittedly I don't know much from the cardiacs. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 13:21
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I think they are brilliant, but listening to them invariably gives me a headache. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:23
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I've only heard a single song by the Cardiacs: Is this the Life which I thought was pretty decent indie(ish) plain vanilla rock (not dissimilar to the Psychedelic Furs covering Urgent to my ears) Is a lot of their stuff like this? (cos this track ain't even prog related never mind RIO/Avant) BTW I'm old and smell of pee ------------- 
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:25
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:39
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^ I enjoyed the track and like how they contrast the punkiness with some symphonic elements but ditto, apart from the brief faux cartoon music fugue snippets ain't this just good rawk?. You lot ever heard the Virgin Prunes or the Fall? (they ain't Rio/Avant either)
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:50
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Is this better? |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:10
No, not even close. Most people don't even care about them.
I never cared enough to really listen to them, to be honest. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:31
Some of their material is more straightforward than others, but some tracks (for example, this, R.E.S., Buds and Spawn, etc) are more on the proggy side of things. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:34
It's certainly (slightly) more avant leaning than previous. Again I liked the song and the Cardiacs do appear to be a very versatile band but ain't this really tantamount to a punky chanted waltz with orchestral/chamber sources assimilated (very skilfully and imaginatively) into an arrangement of what is at source a normal time-worn song structure? None of this really matters of course, hey ho, the more good bands we have on PA the better but I would imagine there are more than a few (grey) eyebrows raised when the Cardiacs are mentioned in the same breath as RIO/Avant. -------------
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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:36
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Also this: As for "most controversial band," by the way...nope. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 20:03
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That's more like it me hearties. I loved Jibber and Twitch which struck me as a pot pourri of 'neurotic' era XTC multitasking between several different styles at the same time (with some punk and ska added) Great stuff. R.E.S. is ok, good fun in a sorta Madness meets the League of Gentlemen's Barry Adamson over a shared bottle of Dexedrine atop the latter's dayglo Farfisa. It does get really interesting circa 3 minutes in when they drop the wacky masks and inhabit a very interesting realm redolent of instrumental Prog. BUT: Quirky, volatile and tongue in cheek does not RIO/Avant make -------------
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Posted By: avantgrind
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 21:00
this could very well be the reason for most. I like them, though. ------------- 
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 23:45
Deerhoof's pretty fracking awesome too! Though they have a lot of weak stuff, mostly it's weak because of awful production. "Friend Oppurtunity" and "Milk Man" are personal faves. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 23:50
Um I don't know whether they're RIO or not. Tim Smith (band leader) always called them pop music, and I tend to agree. I mean they have all these weird arrangements, and punkish riffs, but in the end they're just great pop songwriters. With that, I think they're one of the most progressive and innovative bands of our time, and considering they definitely don't fit into any "classic prog" sub-genre, and they don't fit to any metal genre, I think that Avant-Prog suits them quite well. Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uASnYxw39w&feature=BFa&list=PL9FB9ECB679824CE4&index=5" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uASnYxw39w&feature=BFa&list=PL9FB9ECB679824CE4&index=5
------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 00:16
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Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C82Gcu5BTiY&feature=related" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C82Gcu5BTiY&feature=related ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 00:48
| Personally I don't like the cockney vocals and the drumming is far too plodding for my taste. |
Posted By: Junges
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 01:37
Why? You don't need to justify your personal tastes. Like Zappa said: "If it sounds GOOD to YOU, it's bitchen; and if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's sh*tty." |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 01:42
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^ well no I'd rather think that my tastes don't include all good music, if I may disagree with the Zappa. I don't want to justify my personal taste, I just am curious why other people don't enjoy them, because usually the rating of the albums are either 5 or 1 stars and hardly ever 4 stars. So it seems like they a love/hate band and I never really had a discussion with the hate side, and so I'm curious to what they will say. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:11
I really liked the music for the Duck and Roger the Horse (there's a lot of hours gone into harnessing such whimsical flights of fancy to sound as incredibly tightly reined as they do) A very talented and original band, no contest (who cares what it states on the museum plaque after the fact?) -------------
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:38
Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P. I've said this before, though not necessarily on this forum, that despite generally subscribing to a view of taste as being purely subjective (i.e. there's no such thing as objectively, indisputably "good" music) I do struggle with this viewpoint when it comes to Cardiacs. It's hard for me to read bad reviews because I just can't help thinking "You didn't listen to it properly! Give it another spin or two and it'll all make sense, I promise!". Cardiacs are my one sacred cow. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:48
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 03:11
Good music does not exist.
This perception is incorrect, although I guess the extremely low number of ratings skews the mind. Sing to God is 26% and A Little Man is 19% 4 star ratings. That's a higher percentage of 4 stars than CTTE, SEBTP, Foxtrot, TAAB, WYWH, ITCOTCK, DSOTM, Animals, Red, Godbluff, Si On Avait, Pawn Hearts, Terria, Crimson, Images and Words, and Scenes from a Memory. ;-) The Seaside is 40, Songs for Ships 38, Heaven Born 46, Guns 36, and On Land and Sea 50, some of those are well above the 30-40% range of 4 star ratings many of the big name albums hover at. But almost nobody has bothered to rate Cardiacs at all, you can't extrapolate much from the PA ratings. There are only 224 ratings for the whole discography, that's less than the new Phideaux album. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 05:06
Controversy is proportional to how well known an artist is. They have a long way to go.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:50
This is what I was going to mention...I saw a very old Cardiacs thread from PA, and that seems to be what happened. They didn't fit anywhere else, so they were placed in Avant Prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:33
Well sure but with that I think that the people who have listened to them have a bit of a split, though while many enjoy Cardiacs, there's quite a few that don't, and it interests me to know what's not to like. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:35
I totally agree. It's like I'm a complete liberal and let everybody express their opinion, but whenever someone says something bad about Cardiacs I'm all: "You die NOWWWWW!!" All up in his face. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:43
You must be a hit at parties. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:52
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I have no opinion on them. I was going to post that I dislike them, but on reflection, I realized I never cared enough to try listening to them. And I still don't.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 18:25
OK, we're going to have to put you under Cardiac arrest. I actually haven't tried listening to them either. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 23:31
Never heard them before. Interesting! Like Queen doing punk. (I see one of the YouTube commentators had the same thought.) ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 05:06
Parties, psh... that's for rockers. I'm an intellectual with sunglasses.------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 05:42
I would have rather said Frank Zappa working with the Beatles for a punk-rock project. My little sister is a fan... Well, at least, she has the two CD-R I burned with the mp3 that the band gave on their website. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 03:53
Quunk!! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:08
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I've never heard the most controversial band. Sounds like something I don't want to hear either....poppy or punk will not be saved by prog elements. All pop is inherently bad, all prog not inherently good. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:46
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*GIGANTIC FACE PALM* Don't judge until you listen. Punk isn't necessarily pop and pop isn't necessarily bad and you're hearing that from one who enjoys avant and listens to it regularly. Cardiacs aren't pop they are Cardiacs. And the fact they can write good tunes can count as pop, for example: Caravan, DT, PT, Soft Machine, can write pretty tunes which are pop tinged, does that mean that they're any less prog? Cardiacs are just the best songwriters. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:52
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Opinions founded on no experience have no meaning to me, and we've provided quite a few samples of Cardiacs to listen to throughout the thread. Listen to some of those, THEN make an opinion on the band, and I'll actually care (not whether or not you like them, but that you have an opinion on them). ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 11:05
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^ Like your Cosa Brava pic in the sig! ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 11:07
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Thanks!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 16:08
I never stated that all pop was bad, just that I dislike the genre. I know I'm going to listen to it and despise it because I despise catchy music with the topics that pop music are always about (one way or another). And yes, relatively all punk music is pop music. There's no punk without vocals that is really just punk and not a crossover with another genre. Theres enough music I AM interested in that I haven't gotten around to listening to yet. And yes by definition writing tunes that are "pop tinged" does rather make somebody less progressive, but please lets not go down the progressive=good path....
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 19:46
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OK I did try that clip a while back and wrote them off. But the first clip posted on the first page along with the other ones has got me interested. Reminds me a bit of XTC. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 22:52
Just listen god damn it... And I will say again. Not all punk is pop. Try NoMeansNo. There's many poppy punk bands but not all punk is pop. Cardiacs are pop like you have never quite heard, so just listen before you're like omgomgomg I hate this blaaaa. And after spying on you and seeing that you reviewed the Caravan album! Now you look at me straight in face and tell me that Caravan isn't a pop band, or isn't a band with good, catchy tunes. Catchy/ poppy tunes doesn't make a band less progressive it's not the notes they play it's the way the band sounds. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: July 14 2011 at 02:49
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 14 2011 at 03:00
Oh, well that's fine, th... haaaang on a second...
That's some pretty severe memory loss you've got there... Anyway, pop is fine. All music is fine and the boundary between objective quality and "I like this kind of thing" is fuzzy to say the least. I had more to say, but I honestly don't think it's worth the effort. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:35
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Anyone who likes Cardiacs should check out Punishment Of Luxury. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:48
Sole problem: is their catalogue available?  |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:50
It is a problem I admit. But they definitely have a similar sound and are from the same era. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:52
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------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:54
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------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 11:55
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This one in particular is Cardiac like. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ergaster
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 12:28
Well that was definitely interesting...... ------------- We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. Captain Malcolm Reynolds Reality rules, Honor the truth Chemist99a R.I.P. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 12:56
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Cardiacs just remind me of Devo's only good album o:3 ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 13:12
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 14:08
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sound like devo... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 23:04
well yes R.E.S. is from their first album which is very post-punk inspired but their sound later changed a few times... ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: December 17 2011 at 23:36
I likes it a lots! ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: daslaf
Date Posted: December 18 2011 at 06:16
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It's futile to inquire people 'bout why they like or don't some kind of music.. It's a thing, in my opinion, that appeals directly to the heart and most of times cannot be explained, I am a huge Cardiacs fan, but I don't know what I like about their music... I do understand that, from time to time their music can be a little overwhelming I must say, even I get a little tired after listening to Buds and Spawn, but you have to recognize this guys did something pretty unique and pulled off wonderful songs... and if some people refuses to listen, they're losing it bro, they're totally losing it... There's a point that's been missing so far and that himtroy mentioned, and it's about the lyrics... Honestly, sometimes I can't understand some Cardiacs lyrics, they're pretty abstract to be honest... I don't think being tarred and feathered is a common topic to write some lyrics ------------- But now my branches suffer And my leaves don't bear the glow They did so long ago |
Posted By: ergaster
Date Posted: December 18 2011 at 10:14
Ba-DUM tshhh! ------------- We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. Captain Malcolm Reynolds Reality rules, Honor the truth Chemist99a R.I.P. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 07 2012 at 20:13
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------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 07 2012 at 20:14
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Oi Slarti! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 15:56
| When I heard Cardiacs, I made an immediate decision to never listen to the Ramones/Pistols/Clash ever again. It's music I was searching for for years. Punk music that actually kept my interest. I KNEW it existed but didn't know what band was doing it. |
Posted By: AmbianceMan
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 12:40
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I hate punk music, but I really like Cardiacs.I've been listening to Cardiacs for a couple months now. I never think that they are going to be as good as they are, then when I play it I can't stop. They have some kind of spell on their album, like they probably use backward masking to control my mind just like KISS used it to make all the teenagers in the world worship Satan. If you haven't ever cared to listen to them, then I encourage you NOT to listen to Cardiacs for the above reasons.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 16:26
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------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: January 24 2012 at 10:59
I thought they were from the outskirts of West London (Kingston) not East London (Bow Bells) - you'll being telling me next you can't tell the difference between the vocal accents of the The Who and Small Faces...........................  ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: frogbs
Date Posted: January 27 2012 at 10:48
| I don't see what's controversial about them at all! They never had much success and IMO you only really come across a band like Cardiacs through posting on forums like this one or getting recommended them. I think it's easy to tell if you will like the band after hearing them for the first time. I never understood the negative reviews either. I think they're brilliant. As a band especially but everything Tim Smith does is worth seeking out - even his solo album was a great surprise! |
Posted By: fxdregs
Date Posted: January 27 2012 at 10:57
Something like "you're kidding, right?"
Yeah, they're messing around....but listen to the music.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: January 27 2012 at 15:00
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They are only controversial if you are the type of person that seeks to create controversy. Unless you take umbrage at their sub-genre, which I understand. Otherwise they are a good, not great, band that found a niche in the floundering 80's. I have acquired 4 of their albums and have trouble distinguishing one from the other.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: May 22 2012 at 16:56
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: May 24 2012 at 10:51
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You should try their Garage Days or their early album rereleases. The stuff from pre 1984 is amaaazing. They were even more punky and angry and progressive to me back then. |
Posted By: gerdtheater
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 23:13
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Haven't heard them, but I'm quite interested in that prog-punk mixture! ------------- Playing a three-hour Rush show is like running a marathon while solving equations. Neil Peart |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 23:54
| I don't think that the Cardiacs are that controversial. A vast majority of people who persevere with them love them. Someone like Dream Theatre, where large numbers of people properly familiar with their catalogue loathe them and also love them, would seem to be far more controversial. |