Why isn't Phil Collins in Prog-Related
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80307
Printed Date: May 06 2024 at 21:30
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Topic: Why isn't Phil Collins in Prog-Related
Posted By: criticdrummer94
Subject: Why isn't Phil Collins in Prog-Related
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 22:10
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Yes his solo work wasn't exactly Prog but if other members of Prog bands whose solo career wasn't exactly Prog then why can't Phil? Just an observation -------------   MY IDOLS |
Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 22:13
Which members are you referring to? Also, even if they aren't prog, why would you want to include another artist that isn't prog-related? You said it yourself, his work isn't progressive.
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criticdrummer94 wrote:Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 22:18
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I don't give a crap about prog-related and neither should any member here. ------------- 
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Posted By: criticdrummer94
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 22:28
Well there is David Gilmour and Nick Mason of Pink Floyd. There also is Page and Plant and even Led Zeppelin wasn't really progressive ------------- MY IDOLS |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 22:32
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As I said before.......all of PA for Prog Related -------------   
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 23:20
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Because Ivan will literally murder the person who adds him to prog related.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 23:22
Gilmour and Mason both released somewhat progressive solo works as well as Page and Plant. Some of Led Zeppelin was progressive but obviously not most of it. Phil Collins released nothing progressive in any sense. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 23:28
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Phil Collins made pop records. Pop records don't belong on PA in any way. If pop records are on the archives, the solution isn't to add more pop records. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: BrianFromOkc
Date Posted: August 06 2011 at 23:31
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I've been a fan of ProgArchives for years, but I just registered one minute ago. I had to chime in on this thread, because I've wondered the same thing many times. I'm a huge Phil fan and I own all of his solo albums. I think he poured his heart into every Genesis album -- particularly his last one ("We Can't Dance") and the tour that followed. Just watch his performances on that DVD! But in Genesis he could devote himself to drums and vocals. On his solo albums, he's spread thinner -- he has to cover all the bases himself. His albums are as far away from prog as a rocker can get. Therefore IMHO he does NOT belong on this site. HOWEVER, when I noticed that Kate Bush and John Wetton have pages here, I had to wonder why Phil is missing. I'd only seen Kate's name once before (a Peter Gabriel duet), and I recognized John's name from Asia, Crimson, UK, etc etc. I must admit I've never heard a note of their solo music; I've only perused their albums and reviews on this site. For all I know, they might be a prog goldmine, but I don't get that impression. So I'm still left wondering why Phil isn't here. Obviously the PA administrators have to draw the line somewhere. Whenever man tries to put labels (like "Prog") on something that can't be labeled (like music), blurriness and inconsistency are unavoidable. But such labels are useful tools for discussion and have helped me discover many great bands here. Now I'm starting to go off the philosophical deep end, so I'll shut up :) Another reason NOT to add Phil is because then they'd also have to add Mike & the Mechanics, and M&M are even less prog than Phil! |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 00:25
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 01:03
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There was this attitude amongst the 3 of them Banks, Rutherford, and Collins and it said "C'mon boys, we always wanted to be songwriters...let's give it a shot" So in interviews all 3 of them had expressed having a love for songwriting before and during Genesis, but it wasn't possible because the band was heading in the new Progressive direction of Trespass. There was a scene created for bands like that in London and that was the direction Genesis were going in and so they put off the songwriting desire. From Genesis to revelation is actually corny singer/songwriter pop. Much of it is driven by the sound of the Bee Gees and that is telling.
Phil Collins was lucky to be on the music scene just in time for Prog in the 70's where he would tour with Genesis and during time off record and perform live with Brand X. Once those bands were being dropped from record labels and the prog scene was fading away....Genesis went for the fame and money. He also indulged in acting and as a child there is a small shot of him in "A Hard Days Night". He just seemed different than the others because he had diverse ideas about entertainment. He wasn't just a prog musician. He had other plans. He became a media figure and he had to deal with prog fans from the past who felt he had betrayed their music. He talks about it all the time. I can't imagine him not feeling terrible on the inside about it. Being so diverse as a drummer and doing studio sessions with underground prog bands in the 70's. He's got a lot on his plate with that. He said once when people often make fun of the way he looks that he finds it frustrating he cannot get back at them. Maybe he feels in some way that he did make a mistake. All these years later when he thinks back about it. He seems to carry a lot of frustrations with him.....which I've noticed in many interviews where he is expressing his feelings and hoping to reach out to fans. I think he is hurt by his track record and I wouldn't want to be in that position.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 01:08
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Phil Collins solo stuff? Because it's not prog. Just a guess. The "not exactly prog" is generous as well  You may be right about members being on because they were in some prog group and their actual work isn't...but that doesn't mean there's a need to add more of that! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 01:13
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When Phil finally came clean and told us he was from Croatia and he was extremely fond of granite, we knew he could never be part of such a special place here on PA. Prog-related? No such thing! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 02:10
| Because the only thing that relates Phil with prog is his history, not his solo music. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 02:17
Welcome to the site! Just to address the comments on Kate Bush and John Wetton . Kate Bush has made some experimental stuff like The Dreaming and side two of Hounds Of Love (The Ninth Gate) that puts her in a similar bracket to Peter Gabriel and his solo stuff. I'm not that familiar with Wettons solo music other than a few live albums , but he does play King Crimson and UK songs live while Collins does not play much (if any ) Genesis stuff. His solo albums are very distinct and seperate to prog music because thats how he prefers it. So the question is would he want his solo albums to be included on this site? I doubt it tbh. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 03:34
jep |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 04:47
He only became fond of granite after he lost his marble(s). I guess it means he’s a fan of hard rock. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 05:07
If Phil Collins is on PA someday, i am afraid what would became PA in ten years...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 05:27
 I could see it for Face Value, but we really don't want to see his face on front page when people start reviewing his albums. Also, Ivan would sue the pants off anyone who attempted to do it. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 05:30
^ not such a big deal.....Face Value yes ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: TrickedTail
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 06:02
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I've never actually posted before either (which is evident given my post count...) but I've often wondered the same thing. The Prog-related section of the website says under its criteria: "3) Members of important progressive rock bands - Although most of the recorded solo output of artists like Greg Lake and David Gilmour falls more in a mainstream rock style, their contributions to progressive rock in their respective bands insures them a place in our prog-related genre." Which made it seem to me, whenever it was when I bothered to search to see if Collins' stuff was in the archives or not that, it seems little more than bitterness at the direction Genesis took with him supposedly in charge. That, or, it may just out of concern for the fact that every album he ever released would have probably have an average rating of below 1.5 anyway. There are some songs of his that I actually do quite like. Take me home is the best example. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/NurseryCryminal/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 12:17
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The reason Collins isn't in PR is because Collins isn't PR. Every single side project of every single band on PA shouldn't automatically be included into PR. That would be hell. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 12:51
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As has been said many times before, this is the problem with having artists, rather than albums, on the site. I would have absolutely no problem with having Face Value on the site. It's a wonderful album, with traits of much of what Genesis were doing at the time. Indeed, Bans has often expressed regret at rejecting In The Air Tonight for Duke. As for the rest of his solo stuff, I lost interest after the third one, and they certainly don't belong here. It doesn't mean they're bad, though. Millions of buyers seemed to enjoy them. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 13:09
| Phil Collins for RIO/Avant |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 17:47
| Phil is a very talented songwriter, but most of his music is not prog-related at all. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 18:23
Sussudio
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 20:02
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 20:34
| because his solo stuff stinks, that's why |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 21:01
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^ so....what are you saying?
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 21:25
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I'm saying he looks like a penis but we love him anyway |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: August 07 2011 at 23:09
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^lulz ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Guillermo
Date Posted: August 08 2011 at 10:13
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I bought most of his albums including "Dance Into the Light". Then, when he started to write music for Disney´s movies, I lost interest in his music. He is more a Pop Rock artist than a Prog artist as a soloist. The same is for Mike Rutherf ...ord and his Mechanichs band and some of Tony Banks´albums. The difference is that Banks´ and Rutherford´s first solo albums were more Prog related than all of Phil´s albums together. Collins´solo music is not so bad, but knowing that many Prog fans hate his solo music, I could only expect very bad reviews (one star ratings and maybe some insults, hahaha!) for most of his solo albums if he is included in Prog Archives. Recently I saw the "Do they know it´s Christmas?" video in youtube. I was laughing at the ridiculous eighties look and posing of most of the musicians which participated in that single and video, and I thought "What was Collins doing there?", but it became clear for me that maybe he wanted (or his record labels wanted) to be included in the eighties Pop Rock music enviroment, even if he didn´t look or didn´t sound as the others in his solo albums. Collins is a good composer and his "natural" talent as soloist was/is the Pop Rock market, in my opinion. ------------- Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime. |
Posted By: 7headedchicken
Date Posted: January 30 2012 at 17:49
| I've always thought "Droned", "Hand In Hand", and "The West Side" to be progressive, and possibly a few others from those albums, and considering his great conribution to Genesis and Brand X along with enough of his solo work even if not being prog being at least good and great (both "No Jacket Required" and "...But Seriously" are 5 star pop/rock albums, in my opinion) to be worth including under Prog-Related. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 30 2012 at 18:20
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Because he's riiich beotch!!! Seriously, the more famous and successful you are the more likely you will gain resistance to inclusion. To be honest I only have and know Face Value and it's a decent album but not sufficient for my support. Genesis and Brand X are already here... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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