Pawn Hearts Vs The Dark Side of the Moon
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82479
Printed Date: May 11 2024 at 01:17
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Topic: Pawn Hearts Vs The Dark Side of the Moon
Posted By: Svetonio
Subject: Pawn Hearts Vs The Dark Side of the Moon
Date Posted: November 03 2011 at 23:40
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Voted PH |
Replies:
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 00:22
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DSOTM ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 00:32
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DSOTM. I love VDGG but I prefer LWCDIW over Pawn Hearts. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 01:22
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Do not under estimate the power of the dark side. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 01:22
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I voted DSOTM. Having said that, the damn album is so familiar now after years of being played and held in such high regard. To be honest, I'd probably never need to listen to it again, as I could likely just recall every sound effect, guitar solo, keyboard effect in my head note for note lol!  `Pawn Hearts' I've only really just started getting into more recently, though I've had it for years and never given it much of a spin. Van Der Graaf has not been an easy band for me to get into, though it's slowly happening :) To be honest, these two albums are not at all similar, so very hard to choose one over the other! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 01:28
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Never liked VDGG. DSOTM is an excellent album Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 01:41
| Pawn Hearts by far. DSOTM is one of the weakest Floyd albums. |
Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 02:30
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Pawn Hearts is a prog masterpiece while DSOTM is only a pleasant but not outstanding.slice of soulful mellow prog. ------------- ''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.'' - Albert Camus |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 02:45
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Even though I voted for DSOTM, these days I would much prefer to listen to `Pawn Hearts', because I am constantly finding new things about it, and just trying to get my head around certain sections, tracks, etc. The only real thrill left with `DSOTM' is coming across a Floyd bootleg I've never heard of the performance, and even then only the early versions where they improvised whole sections, and it sounded very different to the finished (and now kind of tired) studio album. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 02:49
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Pawn Hearts |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 03:47
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DSotM with a difference of about 1.5 star. Both albums are #4 of these bands on my ranking lists. Imho there is only one track that justifies the high rating of Pawn Hearts: Man-erg. ------------- 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 03:50
| Pawn Hearts is one of my favorites! Dark Side of the Moon is (together with Crime of the Century) the simplest and most poppy album of the PA top 100. If DSoftM wouldn't have had a great sound it wouldn't even have made it into my record collection. |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 03:55
| For me a complete mismatch. I appreciate others will feel differently. I'm not a big fan of VDGG but they did much better than this and placing it up against the timeless classic that is DSOTM means it's an absolute no brainer. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 06:08
This.
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:Posted By: Misomex777
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 06:38
Someone wrote that DSOTM is weak?
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Posted By: Run Home Slow
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 07:09
yep, Van der Graaf Generator!! ------------- If you got ears, you gotta listen — Captain Beefheart |
Posted By: criticdrummer94
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 07:18
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The Pinky Floyd Sound -------------   MY IDOLS |
Posted By: Morningrise
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 07:51
| Pawn Hearts, easily. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 07:55
This.
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 08:26
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Difficult choice... But.. the Moon by a hair
------------- FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 10:20
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I usually use Pawn Hearts as an example of "advanced" prog. Meaning, something you should only attempt to listen to after you've been "prepared" with easier stuff. DSOTM is about as easy as it gets (just look at how popular it is). My gut says DSOTM, but only because it's a lot more approachable. Quality- and layer-wise, it's a pretty close call. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 10:23
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Pawn Hearts by 1.000.000 light years ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 10:31
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Pawn Hearts for me. Dark Side of the Moon is a classic, but it has had it's time in the sun for me. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 11:05
| Dark Side Of The Moon, easily. |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 11:18
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VdGG is the winner in my head.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 11:27
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I like both, but Pawn Hearts for sure.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 11:46
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Always Pawn Hearts. DSOTM is great too of course (i've just heard Money and The Great Gig a couple of times too much) |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 13:45
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Pawn Hearts is pretty awful. Horrible whiny vocals and discordant music - certainly a poor 2* album for me.
DSOM isn't the best Floyd album, but it's still a classic and well worth 4*. That may be why it sold over 60x as many copies as Pawn Hearts ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 14:26
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As it seems this poll is all about whether you understand Pawn Hearts, those who do vote for it (just kidding, but there's some through in it) |
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:00
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Pawn Hearts by a light-year.
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Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:15
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Dark Side of the Moon no question! ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:17
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Even though I am a massive Floyd fan, and has been one ever since the first world war - I still think Pawn Hearts is the better record. It is ruthless, discordant, beautiful, punkish, grating, soaring, earth-shattering, violent, poetic, dreamlike, pre- everything(nearly), ballsy, brave, unrealistic, huge, ugly, quivering, brawling and everything in between, but it still remains a one-off - and an unsurpassed statement in progressive rock. I personally put it up there alongside Bubu´s Anabelas, King Crimson´s Lark´s tongues and Jean-Claude Vannier´s L´enfants assassin des mouches - as one of the greatest records inside our eclectic "genre". ../album.asp?id=28895" rel="nofollow - ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:19
Yea because everyone here knows sales = quality.
 ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 15:24
 Pink Floyd's DSOTM was more successful, but it's similiar to how Spielberg will always be more "successful" than Fellini. It's easier to digest for the masses, but it doesn't mean it's a greater artistic success. John Anthony, by the way, is the legendary British producer who has amongst his credits Genesis, Roxy Music, Al Stewart, The Tubes, Ace (he did their mega-single 'How Long'), and of course Van der Graaf (including Pawn Hearts).
For what it's worth, with all the classic albums he's been re-doing lately, Steven Wilson recently told Classic Rock Magazine that the one album he'd love to get his hands on is Pawn Hearts, stating that there's an 'otherness' to that album and he's dying to get inside it and find out what was going on. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 16:41
| pawny heartsy |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 17:02
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Interesting comparison - I actually think Pawn Hearts has stood the test of time rather better than DSOTM, which, as wonderful as it is, sounds more than a little dated and even a little pedestrian these days, whereas Pawn Hearts sounds as relevant today as it did 40 years ago. You could say much the same about Sergeant Pepper and Trout Mask Replica. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 18:32
| Never liked either album too much. Give me H to He and Obscured by clouds thanks |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 18:32
| Never liked either album too much. Give me H to he and Obscured by clouds thanks |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 18:52
The very same albums I'd mention Some others I'd also mention are Jean-Paul Prat's Masal Jean-Pierre Alarcen's self-titled: Emmanuel Booz' Le Jour ou les Vaches: Kultivator's Barndomens Stigar: and Gnidrolog's In Spite of Harry's Toenail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cglAk-JXq4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cglAk-JXq4 EDIT: Gnidrolog's "Snails" could not be embedded. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 21:10
How different perceptions are. I think it's the other way around actually. Although I think Pawn Hearts is Van der Graaf's best album it hasn't stood the test of time like any of the PF albums. |
Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 21:34
Not this.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 23:02
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DSotM is one of the top 5 albums of the 70s, and one of the greatest albums of all time. Pawn Hearts is not even in the equation. Except, of course, on this forum. Which is funny in and of itself. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 23:08
With your adoration of Aqualung and your love for DSotM, I figure our music tastes are pretty similar. I do have a list. Of all the records in the universe, number two for me is Dark Side. Aqualung is sixth. Pawn Hearts isn't even in the top 300. Possibly around 540th place. It's not even in my top three favorite VDGG albums.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 23:16
For the 70s, I have DSotM ranked second and Aqualung 13th. VDGG is nowhere on the list. I'm hoping they release VDGG masters with just instrumentals and no vocals. Then I'd buy the whole set. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 23:31
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Strange bedfellows to be sure these two. Both are excellent albums but for entirely different reasons in my book. DSOTM has for me, probably some of the best lyrics I've heard on any album, irrespective of classification. This will strike a chord with anyone with sufficient sensitivity or honesty: Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines Floyd's music however, is for the main part , very accomplished and inspired but plain vanilla rock to my ears. I don't think DSOTM any less worthy of praise because of this but through Prog goggles, Pawn Hearts probably dragged our beloved genre into hitherto forbidden waters by bordering on the avant-garde in many places. It's also interesting that many folks who heartily loathe Prog, confess to liking VDGG immensely and don't consider them representative or typical of their understanding of the genre. I've always thought of VDGG as an adorable feral mongrel at the Prog Purebreeds Show.  ------------- 
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 01:27
*sigh* We've been down this road before w/The Dark Elf...
You did have them listed at one time and I applauded you for it because I knew you didn't like the band yet you appreciated the importance of the album (it was the VdGG vs. JT poll when you and I went over this). When you say that Pawn Hearts is only acknowledged by people on this forum (as if you're so much more clued in than the poor prog saps who hang here), you're actually accomplishing the opposite of what you think you're implying... you're trumpeting your complete ignorance of the situation. For the record... Pawn Hearts has been acknowledged as an important work (some have said masterpiece, but everything's relative) by many. The album has received entries in books ranging from The Mojo Collection (a compilation of essays detailing the most important pop albums made over the last seven decades) to Virgin's All-Time Top 1000 albums. The album is hugely influential and several musicians have stated that it's one of their all time faves (Steven Wilson recently told Classic Rock Magazine that it's the one album he'd like to get inside and find out what it's all about; Julian Cope, John Frusciante [Red Hot Chili Peppers], Jello Biafra [Dead Kennedys], Gary Lucas [Beefheart's Magic Band], and Arthur Brown are folks I've actually interviewed about the album; there are tons more I haven't interviewed who are known fans of the band, and they would include musicians, authors, and movie directors [actually, I have interviewed a couple of famous authors and directors who are major VdGG fans and acknowledge VdGG's influence in their own work - I'll be more than happy to tell you who if you're interested]). VdGG certainly were never as popular as Pink Floyd; VdGG were never a household name anywhere (except maybe Italy in the 70's), but to insinuate that they're completely unknown to anyone but prog fans on a forum is foolish. In many parts of the world the band can play to 1,500 - 2,000 seat arenas (more in some places like Italy or French Canada). Where Pink Floyd might play to 20,000 , VdGG might play to 2,000. Fair enough, but that's still a respectable concert and I know a lot of people who would kill for that 'lack of success'. Besides, numbers don't tell everything. My earlier post: Pink Floyd's DSOTM was more successful, but it's similiar to how Spielberg will always be more "successful" than Fellini. It's easier to digest for the masses, but it doesn't mean it's a greater artistic success. John Anthony, by the way, is the legendary British producer who has amongst his credits Genesis, Roxy Music, Al Stewart, The Tubes, Ace (he did their mega-single 'How Long'), and of course Van der Graaf (including Pawn Hearts). ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 01:40
We all have our personal tastes and each of them is subjective and equally valid. That said, I have a polar-opposite list to yours apparently! Pawn Hearts is in the top twenty, DSOTM doesn't register. Pink Floyd was great early on (Piper and Saucerful are psyche masterpieces; Piper is in my top ten) and pretty much lost the plot by the time of Dark Side. I can see why a lot of people were bored by the album (I think it was Johnny Rotten who humoursly called it 'music for sheep', while much of middle-everywhere turned out en-masse to buy it). But it certainly was/is popular, that can't be denied. ------------- jc |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 03:24
| DSOTM always seemed to me to be a case of 'what can we leave out to make it commercial?' (and break America which was the definite intentio at the time) while Pawn Hearts was a brave 'lets not leave a single thing' out peice of work or progressive rock.Both bands were going in completely opposite directions.One is progresive one is not. Later PF albums are brilliant though (up to and inc The Wall). Once they amassed enough money they were untouchable and Animals was every bit as challenging as Pawn Hearts. |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 19:24
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Pawn Hearts
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Posted By: TopographicTales
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 20:02
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Pawn Hearts gets my vote. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 22:53
I do have Pawn Hearts on a list of greatest Progressive Rock albums. But in the above-referenced post I was referring to an all-inclusive greatest albums list of the 70s. You know, for folks that listen to more than just prog. Heresy, I know.
 Again, their musicianship is stellar, innovative and groudbreaking. But the vocals. Ah, the vocals. I can't listen for more than a few minutes at a time. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 22:55
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What do you think of H to the He? At the moment it is my favorite Van der Graaf Generator album. I don't think the vocals are really too overly dramatic, and "House With No Door" is just beautiful.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: November 05 2011 at 23:08
What's your #1 record of the 1970's? Mine is the 1970 original version of Jesus Christ Superstar. #3 is Tom Waits' Small Change, and #4 is Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life. I actually feel oppositely toward VDGG - Peter is the only reason I listen at all. It's his intonation and passion that sweeps me on Godbluff. I really could care less for 20 minute long mid-tempo sax riff workouts. Its nice and all, but damn does it feel aimless as hell.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 01:59
Can't fault you for that; I love the vocals, but many don't and I can understand that.
And here's the problem I had with your post. For us to say that Hammill's vox are terrible and ruin the music, or that Dark Side is completely boring music for sheep, are questions of value... mere opinions. Fair enough, and so far so good. But when you try to infer that VdGG is completely obscure except to people on this forum, that's a question of fact, and it's untrue. Pink Floyd was massively successful, but VdGG was at least moderately successful. I've seen them eleven times in several different countries between '05 - '09 and the range of audience capacity was from 1,500 to over 3,000 (less in the States, but the majority of gigs I saw were in Europe). Gigs I didn't attend but know of include when they played to five or six thousand in Quebec; 3,000 in Moscow; 2,500 in Montreal; and at least 3,000 in Rome... all headlining gigs, no support, everyone there to see VdGG; it's not Wembley Stadium, but those are at least respectable numbers, yes? And at the gigs I attended, the vibe was that older fans knew of VdGG for a long time and the younger ones picked up on them because of mags like Mojo, Uncut, The Wire, Classic Rock, etc. I'm guessing that the majority of the masses in attendance weren't even aware of Prog Archives' existence. That, coupled with glowing articles in major mags, newspapers, and radio support beg this question... what did you mean exactly when you said "except of course on this forum. Which is funny in and of itself." Not understanding that last bit, please explain...
------------- jc |
Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: November 06 2011 at 02:11
| Dark Side |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:24
Sorry for an overdue post, but ... what's LWCDIW? For me: "DSOTM", easily, no contest, ... what did I forget? A very human record. "Pawn Hearts" is just messy musically, which is a real turn-off.
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 03:28
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Pawn Hearts. I don't like DSOTM much. -------------  
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 07:56
Probably The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Glucose
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:11
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Last month i would vote DSOtM, but now I'm sure with Pawn Hearts. Both are excellent and unrepeatable, but I find PH more sophisticated and adventurous to listen, but more difficult to listen and that's why more people know and like DSOTM). Lemmings, Man-Erg and A Plague are all one of the best songs I've ever heard. But from DSOTM i really love only Time, A great gig and BD/E And I have to share my joy: I've just ordered Pawn Hearts vinyl. I'm looking forwards. ------------- Under the rocks and stones, there is water underground 
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Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:30
| Pawn Hearts, easily. |
Posted By: Glucose
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 08:30
Anyway success doesn't tell a lot (or nothing) about the quality of music. Look at Madonna, Justin Bieber... ------------- Under the rocks and stones, there is water underground
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 13:47
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Pawn Hearts. That was easy. Never liked Floyd. ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 16:58
| Neither of these are my favourite albums by their respective groups, but I'll vote Pawn Hearts even though I'm less familiar with it than DSOTM. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 30 2012 at 19:21
LOL John Anthony was producer of Pawn Hearts...What else would you expect from him? Iván
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