Anti-Religion Prog
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Topic: Anti-Religion Prog
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Anti-Religion Prog
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:02
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Seeing the faith based prog thread got me wondering about the other side of the coin. How many prog acts/albums are there around that come out swinging against religion? I'm a bit over it now, but as a young person it was quite a thrill for me to hear music with atheistic or anti-religion messages as I have a lifelong antipathy for the whole thing and it was good to know someone else felt the same way. Rush and Epica are two acts known for this, Jethro Tull took a few swipes at it, even Genesis did Jesus He Knows Me. Knocking religion is a pretty standard lyrical theme of the progressive/extreme metal scene as well.
But what are the best examples of prog music taking on religion? Songs are OK but I'd be more interested in being introduced to complete albums, if there are any.
(Note I'm not asking for artists who are atheists. Of course it's possible to be a believer and still record music in this vein, as believers can be satirical or contemptuous of aspects of faith. There's quite a few musicians who are spiritual people that have problems with the behaviour of the church.)
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Replies:
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:10
Too bad Slayer is out for not being prog. 
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:15
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You'll note I didn't mention them for that reason. Non-prog straight-up metal has anti-Christian/religion stuff EVERYWHERE but I'm hoping to find some more out-and-out prog artists of this ilk. |
Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:33
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Deathspell Omega just finished a philosophical trilogy of albums about something anti-Christian. I haven't really looked too much into the meaning because I honestly don't care, but their lyrics are written so well.
------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:37
The Christian Thread prompted to the Atheist Thread, the Religion Prog Thread prompted the Anti-Religion Prog Thread... I'm of a mind to start an "Original Thread" just to see what thread gets made afterward.  There isn't an "Anti-religion" message in Rush. It's not there. Rush actually uses quite a bit of mythology and mysticism in their lyrics. The closest thing to atheism you'll find in Rush is "Roll the Bones." "Jesus He Knows Me" isn't a swipe at religion. It's a swipe at religious commercialism and hypocrisy. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:43
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The Tangent-Follow Your Leaders Roger Waters-What God Wants parts 1,2, and 3 Dream Theater-In The Name of God and Blind Faith Beardfish-Roulette Phideaux-Candybrain(I think) Sorry I could only find individual songs. ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:45
This isn't really about religion either. It's just about blind acceptance of anything. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Garden of Dreams wrote:Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:47
I would say Faithless is anti-religious. ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:48
True but there is a line against religion so I figured I would mention it. ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:49
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The Dream Theaters are a bunch of Christians ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:52
Perhaps- it depends on how you understand "faith." I'm a Christian and I don't have "faith" in "faith" either.  Maybe they're just bad lyrics. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: MattGuitat
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:54
Maybe we should get them added
As if they'd actually make it! |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:55
Rush writing bad lyrics? Why that's unheard of! How preposterous! ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 21:58
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I know Steven Wilson's very atheist. Blind House, Last Chance to Evacuate are both anti-religious (according to him) Tool. Opiate. And Judith by APC. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 22:12
I think you're going bald. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 22:14
| It's unclear to me, but Current 93 is either largely religious or largely anti-religious. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 22:42
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^ It's hardly surprising they give rise to such ambiguities, given that they're named after an expression coined by Aleister (the beast) Crowley, and their founder David Tibet has a life-long obsession with Christian eschatology, mysticism and the occult.
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 01:02
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Opeth is fairly anti-religion I would say. Epig: There is an anti-religion theme in Rush. Sorry if you don't like that, but there is. Also, it's incredibly revealing that you think it's risible that people with a viewpoint not reflected in a certain thread want to make a thread that reflects their viewpoint. Remember, just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean their music is. Frank Zappa for example. He would be irreverent about religion in his music but I can't think of a song where he actually went at it.
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Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 01:32
Yes, you lose in the thread of one of the opposing belief sytems and hope to do better in the other where the numbers are on your side.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 03:16
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Roger Waters and Robert Wyatt spring first to mind...
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 03:27
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Robert Wyatt has written songs that express the atheist point of view; Matching Mole's God Song is pretty much self explanatory, while on more recent albums Just a Bit is dedicated to evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and there are others but I can't remember the titles at the moment. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Billy Pilgrim
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 03:59
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Freewill by Rush, enough said. Someone brought up Tool, tons of shots at religion from Keenan in all of his projects. Idk if Nine Inch Nails is prog related or crossover but Trent Reznor always had something to say about religion. With songs like Heresy and the Ruiner, the Downward Spiral might be one of the most anti religious anti God albums ever made. More power to it. Floyd, although that's quite obvious, Sheep, very very on topic here. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 04:06
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Aren't ELP, or certainly Lake, fairly outspoken athiests. 'The only way' from BSS, sounds like an 'athiest hymn' ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 04:12
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 05:53
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^^^Tarkus, of course. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:01
Mass seems anti religious too. And I'm sure it occurs elsewhere but can't recall at the moment. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:01
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Most of the Anti religion in general, are not against faith in it self, but against religion as an institution.Along the lines of, "She's not the kind You have to wind up......." ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:04
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^Well yes..anti religion is against religion. Kind of obvious ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:08
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No one's mentioned Zappa yet? Heavenly Bank Account Jesus Thinks You're A Jerk... Not so much anti religion as anti religious hypocrites. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:20
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:29
Don't forget "Dumb All Over". And IMO, there is a difference between being anti-religion and anti faith. Anti-religion lyrics would criticize a religion or religions for what their leaders do. Anti-faith lyrics would criticize the believer him/herself. The majority of lyrics I've heard in this matter are anti-religion. ETA: Sorry Tamijo, I somehow missed your post above.
------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:29
Hey, wait a minute...what's this thing atheists tend to demand Christians provide again? Let's see...ah yes. Evidence. Just saying so doesn't make it true. Show Don't Tell my friend.
I do hope you realize I was teasing there. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:29
Anti religion or Criticism of religion, can be about many diffrent things. from the idear that you have to be mad to belive the world was created in 7 days, to the awful acts against children from members of the church. What i was trying to say was, that most anti religious prog, i can think of, target the church, not so often the idear of a God or a afterlife. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:30
There are plenty of Christians who would agree with every word of that song. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:39
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Rush are not 'anti religion' They can't be, because of their 'libertarian' view of the world. They presumably support anyones right to freely worship. They are merely exercising their right to not do so themselves, and to cast a crticial eye, via their music, over the whole concept of blind faith. To suggest they are 'anti' religion, almost implies they want to see it stamped out, which I like to think they don't. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 06:45
Oh yeah: "You cant run a country By a book of religion Not by a heap Or a lump or a smidgeon Of foolish rules Of ancient date Designed to make You all feel great While you fold, spindle And mutilate Those unbelievers From a neighboring state" But it was more about the basic stupidity of people religious or otherwise. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 07:58
Correct. Being an atheist does not necessarily make one anti-religion. It just means that the individual has no religion. It implies no judgement on anyone else. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 08:51
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A Gap In The Night by The Tangent is Tillison's atheist manifesto, according to him. Sorry, that's a single track, but it's an epic track, at least. As far as whole albums, I can't really think of any off hand, but there probably has to be some out there in prog land. |
Posted By: Lima96
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 09:52
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Does anybody here speak Spanish? Because Spanish folk-metal-progsters of Mägo de Oz are pretty much religion haters, specially when it comes to the Vatican. Just for you to have an idea of what I'm talking about, here are the lyrics of "La Cantata del Diablo", the epic closing song from their Gaia II album, I don't know if translation from Google is good, see for yourselves if it works : Lima96 edit: Okey, so I will post a few relevant excerpts. Ah, and the song really ends on the 24th minute, I don't know why the video lasts 36.:En nombre de la única religión dictamos sentencia y te condenamos a la piadosa purificación del fuego y del dolor, en manos de Dios tu debes poner tu alma, tu hacienda y todos tus pecados, acepta a Cristo y encomiendate pues pronto darás cuentas a él. Padre nuestro, de todos nosotros, de los pobres, de los sin techo, de los marginados y de los desprotegidos, de los desheredados y de los dueños de la miseria, de los que te siguen y de los que en tí... Ya no creemos. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 13:22
Fortunately that Zappa song has lots of lyrics and I was OK just quoting one stanza. Of course linking to the original source is permitted. Yeah I was a naughty boy once and got busted for quoting whole songs and just taking out one or two stanzas. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 13:31
I've read Epig's posts leading up to your comment and it doesn't strike me that he finds this thread risible at all. I think he was just having a bit of a laugh with the "this thread was inspired by this thread, etc" line. But he doesn't seem like he's come out with all guns blaring at all...
That said, aren't David Gilmour and Roger Waters avowed atheists? Surely there have to be some PF lyrics regarding that. ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 13:36
Yeah, I never got the feeling that they were the Bill Maher's of prog! Maybe they are, though. I'm not familiar with the whole catalog (I do like some of the grooves, though; Closer To The Heart is amazing in that it was a good song and actually became a hit... will wonders never cease?) ------------- jc |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 14:26
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I only skimmed so I apologize for repeating, but you should look into Sculptured's Embodiment: Collapsing Under the Weight of God.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 18:44
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That said, aren't David Gilmour and Roger Waters avowed atheists? Surely there have to be some PF lyrics regarding that. [/QUOTE]
I heard an interview with Roger Waters where he said there is no god so he is definitely atheist but I don't know about David Gilmour. ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 18:57
This isn't all out anti-religion, but I always liked this video.
------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 04:47
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Neutral: Residents, The Wormwood - Curious Stories From The Bible ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 10:03
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What really is anti-religion prog anyway? If it's satanic or devil worship stuff, that's still a religion. If it's atheist, there is just no belief in religion. If you are critical of the evil things done for religious beliefs, well maybe.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 10:26
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There are a lot of avant-garde black metal artists and prog/symphonic black metal artists.
Some of them are anti-religion but some of them are satanists which is more like AN anti-religion making it kinda a religion.
And there is a huge difference between anti-religion and anti-God. I am a non-biblical Christian but I'm pretty anti-religion. For example, I pray that God takes a huge dump on the Catholic church and all their riches.
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 16:45
Not quite every word, but most of it. "Genetic blends with uncertain ends on a fortune hunt that's far too fleet" doesn't sound very Christian to me, and it's impossible to "choose free will;" you might argue that humans have free will, but you don't get to pick whether you have it (Altaire pointed this out a while back). I personally don't agree with anything in the song, and because of my perspective, in the past I've interpreted it to be about Christianity in general. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 16:52
It doesn't sound un Christian either. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 21:19
Most of the "You are What You Is" album... ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 21:38
As a mortal, I completely agree with that. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 21:39
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From what I can tell, for Rush, bashing religion is below them. I think their lyrics are mostly impressive.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: February 29 2012 at 23:17
Yeah really. Next thing you know someone will let Metallica in. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 13:38
| Strawbs "Lay a Little Light on Me" from Hero and Heroine reflects some disenchantment with religion from a nonetheless religious person. Whether that makes it anti-religious is open to debate. Which is I guess a point of discussion in this whole thread. Lyricists comment on many aspects of life in a less than black and white way. Very few of us like to be hit over the head with anyone's set of beliefs or non beliefs. When something is done subtly and artistically, it often doesn't matter whether one agrees with the intent of the artist, as long as one enjoys the way the message is delivered. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 15:32
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I think even the most religious amongst us would agree that there is qualitative difference between questioning religious beliefs and being anti-religion, but for some even the questioning is automatically anti.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 17:38
But do you agree with it as a Christian and heir of eternal life? As a Christian, I don't believe that I'm a "genetic blend with uncertain ends," but a human being created in the image of God, chosen by Him to receive eternal life. But I do agree with you that Freewill isn't necessarily anti-religious ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 17:53
I don't consider those concepts at odds. The "uncertain ends" I look at as mere mortal uncertainty (I don't know how I'm going to die, etc.). If you are in the image of God, does that mean you are everywhere at once? What does it actually mean to be made "in the image of God?" ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:12
| Has anyone mentioned Jethro Tull yet. I believe "My God" has some critisism towards religion, perhaps even some other songs from Aqualung. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:17
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Oh, Dream Theater's In The Name of God is quite Anti-Religious ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:19
| I mentioned them in the first post. I believe Anderson is a spiritual person but is deeply suspicious of any attempt to organise and control spirituality. From Aqualung to Roots To Branches, there is a small but noticable vein of anti-religion in Tull. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:19
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OH FATHER HIGH IN HEAVEN LOOK DOWN UPON YOUR SON! ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 18:58
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How about Peter Hammill songs such as the lie, and Faint-Heart and the Sermon? Also, there are certain lines in VdGG's "childlike faith" that make me think they're anti-religious, such as "though i see no god to save us, yet we survive". I know the amputechture album by The Mars Volta album is concerned with religion, and I think they have a rather anti-religious stance, but making sense of their lyrics can be somewhat difficult. |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 19:19
| Also, don't we have plenty of black metal prog bands on this site? There should be plenty of anti-religious lyrics there! |
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 19:54
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Many of these suggestions are against institutionalized or hypocritical religion, but it takes something else to effectively discredit religion. Many anti-religious bands (though probably less within prog) do nothing more than make passion-fueled generalizations because of a few ignorant people. But I think it's natural for many prog bands (especially in more extreme or experimental prog) to criticize Christianity because of the simple minded, regressive attitudes many Christians maintain. I certainly often find myself closer to God listening to Tool or Unexpect than from any type of mainstream Christian "spiritual" (more accurately described as "self-pitying" or "self-gratifying") activity. I believe that it's possible for someone to experience God more deeply in progressive areas of thought than in self-cripling, religious ones. A lot of different music can make me emotional, but it's not too often that I really cry from it. The title track on 10,000 Days by Tool is a sort of admission (if my understanding is correct) from Maynard that his mother's Christian faith was so genuine and true that she surely is finding heaven. Despite Maynard's outspoken opposition to Christianity, he writes this: Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down Without you to guide them all to Zion? What are they going to do when the rivers overrun Other than tremble incessantly? High is the way, but all eyes are upon the ground. You were the light and the way they'll only read about. I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out. Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough; You're going home. And now, this next part is the section that has made me weep on multiple occasions... You're the only one who can hold your head up high, Shake your fists at the gates saying: "I've come home now! Fetch me the Spirit, the Son, and the Father. Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended. It's time now! My time now! Give me my, give me my wings!" You are the light and way that they will only read about. To me (whether he meant it or not), this is the admission of an outsider to the personal relationship with God offered through Christ. I'm not sure how relevant any of this is to a thread about anti-religious prog (or where it's even going), but there you go. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 21:56
| Earendil: Great post. Wings For Marie also moves me deeply, despite being an atheist. The "might've told a lie/ never took a life" part also brings a lump to my throat. I don't think the song is any sort of admission on Maynard's part that he believes in Christ/god. It's more that though he is a confirmed atheist, his tribute to his mother who was a devout Christian is to write and perform a song that is wholly from her point of view and embraces her beliefs. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 21:59
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"Out In The Darkness" by Martin Orford is one of my favorite examples of this. ------------- 
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 22:20
Anti-religiousness =/= anti-batsh*t insane religions. -------------   
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 13:10
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Well, 5UU's made a go at Babylonian mythology with Marduk and Tiamat, on the first album. I think the band Thinking Plague is putting out a atheistic message, the latest album Decline and Fail being a good example. ------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 13:33
I must concur with my esteemed colleague, Epignosis. Rush is certainly not anti-religion. If anything Rush is a faithful ever present warning about deeply idiotic people who put religous zealots in power and then commit atrocities. In my great country, the USA, right wing chosen people of God, pious Christians, burned people alive for many various trivial and quite evil reasons. Nice "faith based" "family values" there. Religious people of faith are burying young girls up to their neck, today, in the middle east and then smashing boulders into their skulls until they die. These murderers truly believe they are men of God. Just saying you have faith or are God-like really means nothing outside of one's own dellusions.
The truth is the truth people. Just because some person or group claims they have faith and are with God, does not
make them righteous nor good and historically shows, most times it makes them in fact very evil & horrific. But lets not let reality get in the way here.
Considering Rush anti-religion is ignorance at it worst.
Dude, your thread is deeply flawed if you think to include Rush as anti-religion. And yes, Epignosis was absolutely right as he pointed out that Genesis was satirizing the greedy fools that sell religion to week minded people. Genesis was not anti-religion.
"Features distorted in the flickering light
The faces are twisted and grotesque Silent and stern in the sweltering night The mob moves like demons possessed Quiet in conscience, calm in their right Confident their ways are best The righteous rise With burning eyes Of hatred and ill-will Madmen fed on fear and lies To beat and burn and kill" I say: Thank God for RUSH.
Oh yeah, and call Ian Anderson a heretic too, for what he wrote about the bloody Church of England, in Aqualung...
But first feel free to:
- Get your head out of your ass
- Get a clue as to what Ian was really sayin
- Put down your little propaganda books and read some history and lean about all the atrocities commited by The Church of England
Thank you for your time.
------------- "Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire |
Posted By: dennismoore
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 14:26
Dude, I am totally agreeing with you two times in this thread. Is that normal???
 Seriously, out of all the music I listen too I believe Rush (Neil's lyrics) to have the most intellectual honesty in their songs.
I LOVE YES, the most of all, but.... "shiny flying purple wolfhound???? Are you kidding???
 Also: any Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian can write the cliched arrongant condescending blather that Neal Morse has been writing lately. For example, imagine the following lyric with a nice prog 5/4 beat:
"Oh, I was a secular nothing, I was worthless, I was lost, but now I am found! Now I am everything, Now I am God-Like, now I am saved. Too bad for all you secular losers, you are nothing like me, me that is so blessed and perfect. I am going to Heaven. I am going to Heaven. La La La." oh and don't forget to use the world "prodigal" in every other song you write, that is real original.
I will stick with RUSH lyrics to keep me humble, thank you.
Oh, if anyboy thinks "I" am anti-religion, sorry...
I am Roman Catholic
 (some think that is worse than anti-religion, I know, my evangelical friends have told me so.). But... I do not think I am perfect, chosen or saved and you being a possible Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever are an unsaved, pathetic, lost wretch,unlike what my self-rightous brethern seem to believe.Yipes, this thread really brought out the beast in me. Perhaps cause the wife & I just saw Benicio Del Toro in The Werewolf, last night???
 Waay back....some dude, called RUSH anti-religion, so that got me going. Knowing the "religion" crowd, if RUSH is anti-religion I think I will chose RUSH.
I will choose Free Will.
------------- "Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 15:30
"So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female he created them." I don't have all the answers, but the best I can explain the image of God is: we were created specially, given immortal souls, and made to reflect God's attributes. This doesn't mean that we are omnipotent or omnipresent, but that, because our Creator is rational, emotional, and relational, we are rational, emotional, and relational creatures (to give a few examples). Because we are made in the image of our Creator, we subcreate under Him, using His gifts. We do this in our music, stories, art, etc. God, who is in dominion over all things, also made us in His image by giving us dominion over the earth. When man fell, he lost that image, but God is now restoring it in us, and will complete it on the last day. Note: I use the word "man" to mean all of mankind, because that's how it's used in Scripture when discussing this. I do not mean to exclude women from the image of God. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 17:32
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Today I learned about the Dan Swano sideproject known as Infestdead. Brutally technical death metal paying tribute to bands like Deicide and taking anti-christian sentiment as far as it can go to it's natural conclusion. Featuring classic song titles such as "JesuSatan", "Christian Genocide", "Save Me From The Hands Of Christ", and "Anti-Christian Song #37". Their logo is an upside down cross inside a pentagram. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHS81OFQs8o" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHS81OFQs8o -------------
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Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 18:33
That is true. Rush are not anti-religious. They do not criticize any actual faith in religions but rather hypocrisy and religious establishments. However, based on the lyrics in Armor and Sword and Faithless, I would say that they are atheist, or at least Neil Peart is atheist. Come to think of it, I don't think I have encountered any prog songs that bash the actual faith of a specific religion . ------------- Just give it all an hour by the concrete lake. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 02 2012 at 18:33
I may respond to this in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56485&PID=4450297#4450297" rel="nofollow - The Christian Thread , so as not to derail this one. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 10:44
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I'm still pondering the whole if we were created by a creator thing then who created the creator thing. In the end it doesn't matter. What does is how you treat your fellow people and other living things.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:01
Very perceptive post. Let's face it, the Bible, irrespective of your spiritual orientation, is still one of the best roadmaps to traverse the vagaries of the human psyche that has ever been devised.. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:10
Not entirely sure what you are getting at but it has its good things to say, still it is a cobbled together and translated text often contradictory. People who profess to be christian pick and choose what parts they want to hold true. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:25
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^ Yeah OK point taken Slarti. All I meant was that everything we respond to and hunger for re order and symmetry is catered for: dark/light - good/evil - mercy/cruelty - crime/punishment - grace/perdition - individual/society - mores/licentiousness etc It's an A to Z of human frailty and the commensurate thirst for a codified ethics (no-matter how flawed) BTW I'm an atheist but re the interpretation by extreme wackos - you don't blame the composer when the pianist hits a bum note innit? -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:27
Some do. I don't. I just know what parts don't apply to me (for example, I'm not an Israelite, so therefore I am not a part of God's explicit covenant with Israel). Context is paramount. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:32
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erm...sorry to be picky Rob, but given that Israel is an artificial sovereignty created by the United Nations in 1947, you really mean you ain't Jewish right?
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:38
Yes but they were Israelites even before that. In biblical times. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 11:42
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I was taught that the English and US were descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. But anyway, religion ceased to provide the answers for me long ago. If I am doomed, so be it. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. You live and then you die. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Dig deeper into the bible and you have to deal with the contradictions. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: March 03 2012 at 16:18
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I have nothing against Religion in music. There is some fantastic material out there due to it. I love Gospel, Bluegrass Gospel esp , and even some of those Classical Monk choirs etc at times.
With Prog and Rock though I don't think it goes, more so a lot of the early stuff was rebellion based and not like all that old stuff the older generation played back then. ( I play that old stuff myself these days
)------------- Matt |
Posted By: Turillazzo
Date Posted: March 04 2012 at 11:13
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Zarathustra by Museo Rosenbach, being about Nietzche's philosophy, should be included in the thread
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Posted By: progprogprog
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 07:14
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While you're at it, find me an album about natural selection and Darwin's life ------------- Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 08:33
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1801" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1801 It's all in Italian, of course
------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: progprogprog
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 09:55
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^I have that masterpiece, so informative ------------- Always thinking in extremes.That's my way to beat boredom. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 11:54
1 In the beginning Man created God; 5 And these lesser men were cast into the and in the image of Man void; And some were burned, and some were created he him. put apart from their kind. 2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of 6 And Man became the God that he had names, that he might be Lord of all created and with his miracles did the earth when it was suited to Man. rule over all the earth. 3 And on the seven millionth 7 But as all these things day Man rested and did lean came to pass, the Spirit that did heavily on his God and saw that cause man to create his God it was good. lived on within all men: even within Aqualung. 4 And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a 8 And man saw it not. host of others likened unto his kind. 9 But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 13:10
Might mean nothing other than to have the conception of right and wrong. Either that or God looks like a human being and then you have to ask which gender... By the way, I don't believe in immortal souls. I do believe in living souls that can die. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 13:16
Actually I would have preferred these types of threads locked and closed down ... after a while, this subject gets really tired.
No one can say anything anymore about anything out there because the intelligenzia will always say that you are anti-something and no pro-anything ... and with today's media ... always taking some sort of idea to make their point and ... notice that point NEVER leads to the big name or company ... it's always towards the little worthless guy ... who couldn't possibly make a difference on the whole subject anyway.
Like you, I'm tired of "religion" threads. It's no different than "business" threads ... or yet another discussion between Democrats and Republicans in America ... folks that can not find a difference between each other unless they are ready to trash Rush on one side or Mahor on the other.
The thing that bothers me the most? ... the inevitable insinuation that because you wrote one song questioning it all, that you are now anti-religion or anti-faith ... and I'm sorry. That is grossly mis-represented and not a discussion woth having in a public place, where most people throw rocks even though they are sinners themselves. It's not even about the quality and the beauty of either view point ... it's almost a complete irreverant note about looking for stuff that they can show off behind their mom's back! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 15:27
| I always loved that text on the back of Aqualung. Aqualung actually did have an influence on my religious outlook, but I was only about 8 when I first got into it so I would've been fairly impressionable. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 16:03
We agree!  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: March 06 2012 at 16:45
Some of the best albums of the past decade, to be sure. Throughout an album they go from English to French and Latin, and even Finnish at some point, I believe.
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Posted By: Tuck
Date Posted: March 07 2012 at 07:33
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I'm kind of torn about Temple of Shadows by Angra. The concept is based during the crusades, and it seems to denounce the practices of the Catholic church, but overall I think the album sets an agnostic tone. Probably my favorite power-metal album of all time here. Additionally, I would say Neal Morse's Sola Scriptura is a blatant anti-religious album, in the sense that it is against religious practices and strongholds and emphasizes the spiritual connection between God and man. Many "religious" artists denounce traditional "religion" these days. It seems that most artists today write more about seeking spiritual answers than denouncing faiths or religions in general. There seems to be a spirit of agnosticism throughout. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: March 08 2012 at 01:13
| I suppose you could call his Testify albums anti-religious in that they put me right off religion. |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: March 08 2012 at 08:24
 ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: March 08 2012 at 08:28
+1 ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: March 08 2012 at 16:39
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Did anybody mention Pain Of Salvation yet? They probably did but I can't remember it.
Also, Protest The Hero. Metallica have done anti-religion stuff too.
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: March 08 2012 at 21:32
That's actually part of it. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |